GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake'

[RamboLiberal]

Source: ABC News

Not making a hybrid car like the Prius was a "mistake," outspoken General Motors vice chairman Bob Lutz told a room of Chevy Volt "fan boys" at the New York Auto Show this week.

"We had the technology to come out with a hybrid at the same time as Toyota," Lutz said Tuesday. "In hindsight, it was a mistake. ... We made the mistake and we won't make it again."

"I think the whole company has learned when you step out and do bold things, you win and when you're cautious and let other people do the bold things, you lose," he continued.

Lutz was at the auto show for an unprecedented town hall type, question-and-answer session from the "Volt Nation," a group of fans of the Volt, GM's electric concept car. They have rallied around a blog created by a New York neurologist who is unaffiliated with the company.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4485292&page=1

---

And so was killing the electric car you had you nitwits!

[CottonBear]

1. Ya think?

Gawd! What idiots.

[redqueen]

4. Not idiots - evil, greedy criminals. (nt)

[CottonBear]

11. True. n/t

[trotsky]

14. In this case though, I think the idiocy was more in play.

If they were truly greedy they would have seen that the opportunity to make a lot of money (and taking market share away from the Japanese) was huge with a hybrid.

[redqueen]

16. No, that's not greedy, that's taking the long view.

That is something American corporations (and Americans in general) have NEVER done, preferring instead to turn a quick buck, no matter the cost.

[krkaufman]

34. No, they simply wanted to milk the big profit margins of the SUV/truck models

... but either didn't foresee the rise in gas prices, or were willfully ignorant.

So they were short-sighted in their greediness. As is often the case.

[yardwork]

50. They took the money and ran. They made their profits off the SUVs.

Now they'll take their multi-million dollar bonuses and move on, creating another disaster. Corporate America = one rolling disaster.

[krkaufman]

57. Precisely. Short-term plunder ...

... with no concern for long-term of the company, the workers and retirees, or the country's interests.

[AndyTiedye]

64. BushCheney Told Them There Would be Lots of Cheap Gas From Iraq

and they believed it.:eyes:

[krkaufman]

68. Well, I definitely think they guessed the cheap gas of the '90s would continue. n/t

[izquierdista]

9. A fine pedigree of idiots

How old is the movie "Roger and Me"? These cretins didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, they have been cultivating a high level of dumbth there since they decided that Ford's idea for a sporty version of the Falcon (known as the Mustang) wouldn't sell.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

63. Roger & Me - December, 1989.

A long time ago.

Iacocca and all those guys were idiots. Short term profits, long term picture, be damned!

When I was a kid, my folks only drove GM products. We wouldn't touch Fords or Chryslers or Ramblers because we thought they were crappy. The only high quality GM cars were Cadillacs and Corvettes. Chevys and Pontiacs were OK.

[Psephos]

10. Admitting the mistake is the first step away from idiocy. I'm modestly impressed. n/t

[redqueen]

2. "And so was killing the electric car you had you nitwits!"

Not nitwits - evil con men.

I'm sick of the unbelievable schtick from the auto industry about how difficult it is to make an environment-friendly vehicle.

:banghead:

[xxqqqzme]

59. My first thought as well.

Anyone who ever rode in one of those great cars will forever be perplexed at their wanton destruction.

[redqueen]

66. Some here thought they were horrible...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3235523&mesg_id=3235815

[fascisthunter]

3. Yup... Might Wanna Make Smaller Vehicles

rather than so many over-sized gas guzzlers which most cannot afford to maintain.

[harmonicon]

37. they already make them, they just don't sell them in the US

I don't have hard numbers, but it seems that I see far more GM and Ford cars (not trucks/SUVs) in Europe than I ever do in the US, at least as a percentage. These companies can and do make very good compact cars, just not in the US.

[fascisthunter]

45. My Brother and Cousin in Germany Told me the Same Thing

I agree....

[Supersedeas]

5. so do something bold and make the leap to 100% electric

[mikeytherat]

13. They already did: The GM EV-1. They were all destroyed (crushed) by GM.

Seriously:
http://ev1-club.power.net/

GM was leasing the EV-1. Every EV-1 owner, regardless of lease length, had to turn the car into GM. Soon after, GM gathered all the EV-1s in the desert and crushed them.

mikey_the_rat

[redqueen]

15. And who says anything about it?

Repub OR Dem?

[Blue_Tires]

6. even lutz gets it right once a year....

[tridim]

7. Instead GM's "bold thing" was the Hummer..

The most worthless and impractical vehicle ever built.

I wish GM would quit talking, and execute.

[Demeter]

12. Execute Whom?

They're more into golden parachutes in Corporate America.

[mikeytherat]

22. If you haven't read this about The Hummer, you'll love it:

An endless sea of unsold Hummers...

http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/2005/11/hummer-overfloweth.html

mikey_the_rat

[unkachuck]

73. put a little armor....

....on them, and we'll be ready for the next corporate war....

[krkaufman]

49. Exactly. Post 9/11 and heading to war with Iraq ...

... I recall shaking my head at all the advertising for Hummers and the Hummer-specific dealerships going up around the country. Talk about going in the completely wrong direction.

I sometimes wonder if the American car companies were milking the SUV profits with the expectation that the government would provide a subsidized bailout if/when economics punished their short-sightedness. (see Chrysler & Lee Iacocca, S&L, LTCM, Bear Stearns)

[NJmaverick]

8. Yet the republicans would lead you to believe

That these same fools are the ones that should be deciding how the Country is run.

[Auggie]

17. A real bold move there to lobby against higher mileage standards.

[redqueen]

23. We should have had CAFE reinstated back in 93-95.

Alas.

[mikeytherat]

18. Best day for BMW was when Bob Lutz left.

mikey_the_rat

[Lance_Boyle]

19. Lots of Big Three fans here will cheer this admission of duncedom.

GM still gets a gigantic FAIL. And I look forward to seeing those Volt fanboys stuck on the side of the road with dead batteries as I cruise by in my Honda-or-VW-made diesel-hybrid. Suck it, Big Three. FAIL, FAIL, and FAIL.

[H8fascistcons]

25. Might Wanna do some research...

Google Honda transmission problems or VW recalls. If you want to hate the big three for bad decisions made fifteen years ago by executives long gone, what are you going to do about the present Honda or VW problems? Don't forget the quality plagued 07 and 08 Toyota camry ridiculed by consumer reports...

[redqueen]

28. They decided to kill the electric car 15 years ago? Really?

:eyes:

[Dr.Phool]

38. Rent the movie. "Who killed the electric car".

Tells the whole story. I bought it at Blockbuster.

[redqueen]

39. They killed it in 2003. That's 5 years ago.

I can't stand dissembling trolls. (And I don't mean you, I hope you know. :hi:)

[Xithras]

48. That the movie about the EV1? It wasn't a very good car.

I know it had its fans, but there are people who still swear by old Beetles and open top Jeeps too. Most people wouldn't care for them, and the EV1 similarly wouldn't have ever caught on in the open market. I knew a Gen2 EV1 lessee and not only had an opportunity to drive it, but got to hear about its quirks. Like the heater that fogged the windows when used in high humidity cold weather (many EV1 owners kept towels in their cars to wipe the window interiors down while driving), the A/C that never really cooled much at all (which sucks when you live in an area that hits 105 in the summer), and the 100 mile range that magically drops to 25 if you're driving on any kind of hills or slopes at all (it was a car for flatlanders only, and he lived in the foothills above Sacramento). It usually took 8 hours to recharge and required a special 5 foot tall machine to be installed in his home to charge it. The 115v trickle charger often took 12 hours or more to fully charge it when travelling. The throttle was muddy, it handled like a brick with wheels in a corner (the cars balance was funny because of the way the batteries were mounted, and the suspension was stiff), and it was hard to handle in a crosswind because of its light weight.

The funny thing about it was that he LOVED the car. He couldn't stop gushing over it, even though he could rattle 50 flaws off the top of his head. I thought the car was neat, but I've always considered it an example of the WRONG way to build an electric car. The EV1 was an engineers car and an interesting technical exercise, but it would have never been as big as the Prius, even if it HAD full GM backing. The Prius is successful because it maintained the comfort, range, and features of a conventional auto while introducing a more efficient powertrain. The EV1 was more of an engineers dreamcar that included everything an auto designer might consider "neat", but lacking in practicality. The fact that it only had two seats ALONE doomed it to failure.

[CRF450]

61. Yup, it wasent practicle. I wouldn't have a car like that either...

No matter what the gas prices are.

[H8fascistcons]

47. Greetings Red queen...

We had a few hundred electric cars in California in the early 90's, Ford was one of them, if you hate these American corporate executives and boycott their products regardless of the the time frame, blue collar union employees suffer because of massive layoffs, not the executives!. Hate their decisions, fine, but they are not the ones that suffer. IF Lutz says it was a mistake so much the better, let them reintroduce a new electric car, give their new product a chance and put some hard working union people to work. I always hear how open minded progressives are, are you going to prove me wrong?

Regards...

[redqueen]

51. Who said anything about a boycott?

:wtf:

[physioex]

31. Quality of these cars is an illusion....

Toyota is know for making serious mistakes. The late 90's 4-cylinder 6-cylinder Camry and Lexus engines has serious issues with sludge ("gel" Toyota's Name). They initially denied this was happening but eventually admitted there was a problem.

Really you can pretty much buy any brand and with proper maintenance you can pretty much drive any model a very long time. There really isn't that much difference in quality in the newer cars.

[DainBramaged]

84. And all of you Japanese car fans are just as suck ass because Toyota and Honda and Nissan

make as many gas guzzling pieces of shit as the American Big three but you won't admit it.

Examine the gas millage of the Lexus, Infiniti and Acura brands, and then compare the trucks and Suvs and then suck it up. And Toyota is SUING the EPA to delay the next round of CAFE increases. What a wonderful company.

We'll beat your imported arses to market with the Volt and are making Hybrids throughout the entire vehicle range while you all hang your hats on the Peeus and think you are doing the earth a favor.

Bullshit. let us import our cars into Japan and Korea in the same quantities as the Asians do here and let us level the playing field. And tell the EPA to let GM bring in their diesels from Europe without changing the standards and making them harder to import. And if there was more ready access to diesel, you'd see more diesel models. It has NOTHING to do with NOT wanting to bring them here.

Oh and what about third world manufacturers like TATA who make the most unsafe and worst emission emitting pieces of shit in the world and don't get called out by the faux environmentalists here.

All elitist bullshit.

PS

Your fantasy of buying a Honda or VW hybrid diesel is just that, a fanboy fantasy. Get your license first idiot. Oh, and the Volt has a 640 projected mile range because it HAS a small multi-fuel engine to charge the battery. Learn about the product you knock before you spew shit about it.


http://www.gm-volt.com/



http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/

[CRF450]

89. Preach it brotha!!

You rock :headbang:

[Earth Bound Misfit]

20. No, No, No, Lutz got it wrong.... it was

The UAW's fault-:sarcasm: ---like everything else these short term, this quarterly report driven/ vs long term vision BUFFOONS have been spewing for 20+ years..

[llmart]

21. They deserve their fate......

If the guys at the top are that stupid and they continue to pay them millions for being that stupid, then they deserve to go down the tubes.

[kirby]

24. Arrogance is the reason...

Didn't Lutz just call Global Warming a 'total crock of shit' a few weeks ago? And then he backtracked saying that even though he was reflecting his personal opinion, GM was still committed. Yeah right, when your leadership is so arrogant and doesn't believe in what they are doing, that is committed?

[Dr.Phool]

42. Well, I just bought a new Prius a few weeks ago.

I'm 56 years old, and it's the first foreign car I've ever bought. Does that tell you anything? GM lost touch with reality a long time ago.

[kirby]

44. Yeah, it tells me that you...

are trying to make a difference for our planet. That even though you bought a 'foreign' vehicle, your actions are patriotic.

[DainBramaged]

85. Right, patriotic

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Buying a Peeus is PATRIOTIC! Yup, you drink the Kool Aid.

I'd like you to go with me to the Union Hall and ask the members there if buying a Toyota is patriotic.

[krkaufman]

53. Yes, according to the article, he did say that

see http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/13/gms-bob-lutz-global-warming-is-a-total-crock-of-sh-t/

[ladywnch]

26. I love the fact that the auto industry has been in collusion with

the oil companies..burying new technologie cars that got greater gas milage or ran by different means for decades and now the oil companies have left them in the dust collecting record profits quarter after quarter. Detriot is partly responsible for this and the oil companies have left them to die in the dust laughing up their sleeves all the way to the bank.

[Auggie]

27. CEOs can't let their shares slide in the name of R&D

Incentives and pay based on high stock prices -- big formula for disaster.

It's so much easier to take the money and run.

[raccoon]

29. Yes, you will make the mistake again, Bob Lutz.

"We made the mistake and we won't make it again."


That's what the American automakers do, keep making the same mistake over and over again. You did it way back in the '70's.

Too bad it's big shots are so arrogant they think consumers will buy any kind of crap they make, but it's always the rank and file who take it in the neck. :cry:

[redqueen]

32. Because these are not mistakes.

Just as with the invasion of Iraq... just as with the collosal failure of the "war on drugs"... we are FOOLS if we believe these are accidents.

[Auggie]

43. Arrogance in part, but mostly greed

[Zorra]

30. If almost any DUer were CEO of GM, they'd already have several lines

of hybrid cars and would be a pioneer in fuel efficient technologies.

Why do the CEO's of these large companies make so much money if they can't even foresee that the price of gas is only going to go up?

[onehandle]

33. Taking bribes from the oil industry a 'Mistake' nt

[Deny and Shred]

35. According to the documentary "Who killed the electric car"

GM still owns the patents on the battery that powered the EV-1. They bought them from the inventor. If GM were serious, couldn't they just start making them again?
If so, they don't need nearly as much R&D for hybrids, because they already had a gas-free functioning car. It would appear that big oil can't let GM go 100% gas-free, but they can't watch GM go down the tubes making Hummers, either. Some 'greening' is necessary, but not too much.

[Dr.Phool]

40. Check out this company! a123 systems.

http://www.a123systems.com/#/home/phev


They're the future of battery operated cars and buses. They have a new generation of battery that's going into the plug-in Prius next year.

[krkaufman]

55. GM did. But guess who owns that battery technology patent, now?

Chevron. As in Condi Rice's big oil sugar daddy.

"In 1994, General Motors acquired a controlling interest in Ovonics's battery development and manufacturing, including patents controlling the manufacturing of large nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries. In 2001, Texaco purchased GM's share in GM Ovonics. A few months later, Chevron acquired Texaco. In 2003, Texaco Ovonics Battery Systems was restructured into Cobasys, a 50/50 joint venture between Chevron and Energy Conversion Devices (ECD) Ovonics. Chevron's influence over Cobasys extends beyond a strict 50/50 joint venture. Chevron holds a 19.99% interest in ECD Ovonics. Chevron also maintains veto power over any sale or licensing of NiMH technology. In addition, Chevron maintains the right to seize all of Cobasys' intellectual property rights in the event that ECD Ovonics does not fulfill its contractual obligations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_hydride_battery#Patent_encumbrance_of_NiMH_batteries

edit: p.s. Note that the Chevron subsidiary OEMing the NiMH batteries may be in trouble...

General Motors has apparently placed Cobasys on their list of distressed suppliers, ... Cobasys is the battery company jointly owned by Energy Conversion Devices and Chevron Technology Ventures. Cobasys supplies the nickel metal hydride batteries used in GM's mild hybrid system in the Saturn Aura and Vue and the Chevy Malibu. They are also one of two supplier teams with development contracts to provide lithium ion battery packs for the PHEV Saturn Vue that was shown at the Detroit Auto Show. Cobasys is doing the pack integration for cells provided by A123 systems for that program.

Apparently Cobasys lost $76 million in 2007 and expects the amount to widen to $82 million this year. ECD and Chevron are apparently at odds about funding the battery supplier and coming up with a spending plan for this year. When GM declares a supplier distressed they start watching them much more closely and the chances of a supplier on that list winning new business are slim. GM's full-size hybrid trucks, such as the Tahoe/Yukon, utilize batteries produced by Panasonic while the plug-in lithium battery programs all use multiple suppliers, so they should be ok unless another supplier stumbles. GM has not announced the name of the supplier for the Vue Two-mode hybrid that is due to launch this fall.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/27/gm-battery-supplier-cobasys-in-bad-financial-shape

[aquart]

36. BTW, why does this man still have a job?

[KansDem]

52. Yeah, and probably pulling his 8-digit salary, too.

"Hey, I made a mistake but am still getting a humongous paycheck!"

[Doctor_J]

41. A mistake on the order of letting Bush be president

Not building a hybrid killed GM. Letting Bush serve in the White house killed america

[acmavm]

46. I'm sure the corporate hot shots felt that Iraq WOULD be the cakewalk

that the administration said it would be and that we'd be rolling in oil. They also didn't understand that Al Gore and his warnings about Global Warming would be understood and so well received by people all over the world (let alone this country). I also think they thought blivet would be able to keep the Saudis in line.

True, I agree they didn't want to spend the money to develop a new 'product' as well. I just think they screwed the pooch on this one all the way around.

[OKthatsIT]

54. I WANT A WATER CAR!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1OWDcWoXHs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa1meqFFjjM&feature=related

[bullwinkle428]

56. I posted this in the thread on this subject in GD, after reading a ridiculous quote from Lutz:

From the Detroit Press coverage of this same event:

GM will build future versions of hybrids that are less expensive, Lutz said, "and without the premium, where today if you buy a Toyota Prius you have to live to 150 to get back the premium over a conventional car."

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080...

STOP IT BOB...YOU'RE JUST KILLING ME!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Okay, time for some fact-checking. First of all, the Prius doesn't have a "conventional car" counterpart, so there's no basis for comparison. Let's look at a car offered in both hybrid and conventional configurations. The Honda Civic EX sedan lists for $19,510, while the Hybrid is sold for $22,600. Let's say someone plans on driving around 35,000 miles per year, and we'll use the magic number of $4/gallon for gas...we know it's already surpassed this price in some parts of the country. With a combined EPA number of 29 mpg for the EX, it gives up 13 mpg to the Hybrid (combined 42 mpg).

Honda Civic EX sedan : 1207 gallons/year ==> $4828 / year in fuel costs

Honda Civic Hybrid sedan : 833 gallons/year ==> $3333 / year in fuel costs

Total savings per year with Hybrid ==> $1495 / year

At this rate, it would take just over 2 years to make up the premium paid for the Hybrid model!!

I guess in Lutz's world, 2 years, 150 years...same thing. :eyes:

[LeftyMom]

58. And that's without factoring higher resale, tax breaks, etc.

The thing is, in California at least, some hybrids (including the Prius and the Civic hybrid) get to drive in the carpool lane when driven solo, so even if the car didn't pay for itself in fuel savings, it would pay for itself in shorter commute time and reduced wear and tear in stop and go traffic, at least for me.

[bullwinkle428]

62. D'oh! I totally forgot about the tax credit thing! I know it's no

longer available for the Prius, but there is still a $1050 credit on the Civic until the end of June, at which point it goes to $525. For those unsure of how this works, it's not a "tax-deductible" thing, where the amount is subtracted from your taxable income; this is a direct credit. In other words, you get an additional $1050 added to your refund!

Living in a relatively rural area, I didn't even consider places with the HOV lanes. I've driven in SoCal traffic on occasion when in the area on business, and thought that having to deal with that kind of congestion on a daily basis would end up in me being fitted for a straight-jacket, if not worse!

[Paulie]

69. You can compare a Prius to a conventional car

But the problem with comparing cars of the same model hybrid vs regular is the options packages are not the same; with the hybrid generally having more bells/whistles. So the premium in that kind of comparison also includes options differences.

I've averaged 48mpg (52 in summer, 45 in winter). 72,000 miles / 28 months of ownership = 2,571 or so miles a month. 2,571 miles / 48 miles per gallon = 53 gallons used per month (a little over 5 trips to the gas station)

53 * $2 gallon = $106/mo. at $3 = $159, $3.5 = $189 and $4 = $212.

Compare a vehicle with 20 mpg and 30 mpg average:

2,571 / 20 mpg = 128.55 gallons a month (that would be 12 fill-ups for me)

128 * $2 = $256, $3 = $384, $3.5 = $448 and $4 = $512 a month.

2,571 / 30 mpg = 85.7 gallons a month (8 fill-ups for me)

85 * $2 = $170, $3 = $255, $3.5 = $297 and $4 = $340 a month.

106 vs 170 vs 256
diff......62.......150

159 vs 255 vs 384
diff......96......225

189 vs 297 vs 448
diff......108.....259

212 vs 340 vs 512
diff......128....300

These are per month numbers, so just in fuel at $3.5/gal, it's Prius at $2,268/yr, 30mpg at 3,564/yr and 20mpg at $5,376/yr.

$1300 to 3100 a year just in fuel savings. Repairs are less in the Prius as there is no transmission and brakes last longer because of the regenerative nature of using the electric motor for some of the stopping. Batteries will out last the car so that's not a cost. Tires will eventually need to be replaced given the mileage but that's a common cost for both types.

I had a leaky mechanical water pump replaced under warranty, otherwise my costs have been oil change and tire rotation every 5000 miles and air filters as needed. Oh, and some wiper blades. :D :D :D

[sergeiAK]

77. 35k miles a year? That's a wee bit much

Damn. If you're driving that much, move closer to work and keep the junker you have, and you'll do much more for the environment. 35k/year is nearly 100mi every day. That's a damned lot of driving.

Really, there's no reason to be driving that much unless you do territory sales work, or a similarly traveling profession.

[DainBramaged]

87. Buy a Korean made (yuck) Chevy Aveo Sweat and shift model

for $9995 and you could have saved $12,605 and still get 35 MPG. So if you KNEW anything about the GM lineup, you'd realize that was the vehicle he was referring too.:spank:

[CRF450]

60. Um people, GM is improving

They already have a hybrid system in production stages which does significantly raises fuel economy. Theirs an article somewhere that I saw where the test driver of the Tahoe got up to 24mpg in the city. Though it was a bad move to put the hybrid system in the Tahoe/Silverado first, they can easily install this system in many of their cars which already average from 20 to 30mpg, and they will do that, if they want to stay alive. If this system can raise the Tahoe's fuel milage from the usual 15pmg to 24mpg, imagine what it can do for a car that weighs half as much!

GM's build quality is pretty much on par with the import brands now. I'v heard nothing but good things about the newly released Pontiac G8, gonna have to take a look at one of those when the local dealer gets them.

[bullwinkle428]

65. I'm wondering why they couldn't put a better hybrid system into

vehicles that will actually be purchased by those putting a high priority on fuel economy. For example, let's look at the Saturn Aura! The base (I4) engine gives you 22 city / 30 hwy, and for another $2400, the hybrid version gives you a measly 2 mpg increase under each condition!!! :mad:

This seems to be a very convenient way for GM to say in a year or two, "Well, we TRIED to offer hybrids to the consumer, but they just didn't seem to want them!" It sounds like the system they used in the big SUVs may have some real potential...why isn't it being used across the whole product line?

[CRF450]

67. As far as I know, that same hybrid system is now available in the Saturn VUE

Which is a crossover SUV, rated 25/32. But heres something that you should know about these new 08 EPA estimates. They are estimates for "worst driving conditions". So expect that it would get much better than the estimates. That Aura doesn't have the same system.

[Yavin4]

78. "have a hybrid system in production stages " Meanwhile...

Toyota has their hybrids on the roads, and to paraphrase Yoda, "That is why GM fails".

[depakid]

81. The Pontiac G-8 is the Australian Holden Commodor SS

They're also set to market another classic Aussie design to the Americans: the "ute"

[CRF450]

83. They may be badging that one as a Pontiac too.

Which is ok cause I'v always liked Pontiacs till the Firebirds went out of production. I'll be holding on to my 01 Trans Am for a long time.

[Dreamer Tatum]

70. Typical overcorrection coming soon...

...before long all GM vehicles will run on hummus farts, I'm sure, and we'll have to bail the idiots out.

[Hekate]

71. Absolutely no sympathy coming from me for those greedheads. Their workers suffered...

...and so did everyone else who has to breathe the air. GM management made the decision to kill their own business and all the jobs that so many people depended upon, all so they could go on reaping immense profits for awhile longer.

No sympathy. No pity.

Hekate

[dano81818]

72. yeah

no shit dumbass... now come clean and admit the reason you didnt is bc the kleptocratic oil execs who sat on your board of directors told you not to...... come to think of it, that's the same reason it took you jerkoffs so long to admit that carbon emissions are choking the planet.

sorry for my rant

[Orsino]

74. "A mistake."

This phrase trivializes a history of poor decisions as a single error. GM decided every damned year--heck, every damned month--not to make a hybrid, hoping that gas would stay cheap enough that they'd never have to innovate.

It reminds me of a person caught in infidelity who brands an affair lasting months or years "a mistake."

[sarcasmo]

75. Day late and a dollar short as usual. Keep on making them big trucks and Hummers you DUMMY.

Glad my Dad got out with his 37 years and a pension.

[depakid]

76. I'm currently in the market for a state side car- and what I see in the lots, and in the ads

and on craiglist are tons of big, ugly and hulking SUV's. Discounted big time.

Small, efficient cars are much harder to come by.

I'd say THAT was a mistake...

[goforit]

79. ROFLMAO!!! Collusion with the phucking Oil industry GM? I refuse to buy a

phucking GM toilet so long as I live!!!

And I will be danmed if my children/grandchildren/great-grandchildren/great-great-grandchildren ever give you one penny to your
anti-US campaing!!!!!

Phuck you GM!!!!

[DainBramaged]

86. And I have decided to put your dumb ass on ignore for ever

Keep sending your dollars to Japan, they'll thank you.

And even though I can't see it, it's probably been a couple of decades since you bought a GM car or truck, because you hate Unions and their members.

[fortyfeetunder]

80. Bring out the violins, might as well be a damn orchestra!!!!

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[and-justice-for-all]

82. Not making EV's: A CRIME!..nt

[Johnny Harpo]

88. The Problem Is Not Greed But That

it just takes GM, Ford & Chrysler too damn long to go from concept to concrete. By the time they get the 'latest great idea' on the street, the average car buyers needs have changed, or they have lost interest in the 'idea' since it was announced at the really big car shows 2 or 3 years ago, or the damn thing costs too way then the average Joe or Jane Carbuyer can afford.

Who the hell wants a $500-$600+ monthly car payment for the next 5 to 7 years? Especially since most folks don't know if they will even have a job long enough to get the car paid for.