Michigan Do-Over Dies

[Truth2Tell]

Source: New York Times

With lawmakers leaving for the holiday weekend today without taking up a bill that would’ve provided for a second Democratic primary, Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm of Michigan basically declared the do-over option dead.

In a statement issued this afternoon, Ms. Granholm, a Clinton supporter, said:

I believe Senator Levin, Congresswoman Kilpatrick, National Committeewoman Debbie Dingell and U.A.W. President Ron Gettelfinger identified the fairest way for Michigan voters to have a voice in seating a delegation in Denver. They recommended to the Democratic National Committee (D.N.C.) that Michigan hold a state-run, privately funded primary.

I supported their recommendation, as did the D.N.C., and I am deeply disappointed that it is no longer a possibility. Now that the Legislature has decided not to act, we will turn our attention to other options. There is no road to the White House that does not go through Michigan, so it is essential that Michigan voters have a voice in who will be our party’s nominee and, ultimately, the next president of the United States.

Read more: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/michigan-do-over-dies/index.html?ex=1363752000&en=eab5a2420672b21b&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

---

So there you have it.

[stray cat]

1. so why does Hillary blame Obama for preventing a redo in MI?

[Truth2Tell]

2. Her claim will be

that Obama supporters in the State Legislature blocked the proposal. And that may be true.

[MichiganVote]

4. If they're all republicans she's be right but they're not.

[Cha]

43. "Maybe" isn't good enough. hilary called

Obama "UnAmerican" for not wanting Michigan to revote and that's a damn lie. But, just many of hilary's lies.

Obama had nothing to do with this.

[Truth2Tell]

50. Believe me, I have no love for Hillary

but Obama's people were lobbying for no re-vote, which is fine, and as it should be.

[tekisui]

3. It is all she has left.

She is trying to continually hurt Obama's image, in hopes of pressuring the SuperD's into believing he is "unelectable".

[fascisthunter]

5. Did She Lie about That Too? Jesus!!! (nt)

[Andromeda]

6. Step back slowly,

and take a deep breathe.

[tekisui]

8. I'm cool.

It isn't go to work, no worries here.

[Politicalboi]

17. Not only the SD's

She's trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by saying Obama doesn't want your vote to count. And Hillary is saying she wants the votes to count even thought she KNEW they wouldn't. She is a liar and she tries to blame everything on him. Next she'll be saying Bush duped her into NAFTA.

[Zhade]

27. Because, as we've seen, she lies if it helps her.

See NAFTA, Wright, etc.

[goclark]

74. See Sinbad and Bosnia ~ "the ceremony"

That is a bold face lie.

[Evergreen Emerald]

41. Because he blocked it.

[Zhade]

44. No, he didn't. Yet another lie for clinton.

Can't WAIT until you have to shut the fuck up and support Obama or leave DU.

[mbperrin]

52. Well, maybe this is why.

From the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120605697827253319.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The hope held by Hillary Clinton and her supporters -- that Florida and Michigan would hold new primaries that could give her a much-needed boost in popular votes and pledged delegates -- is slipping away. It's no mystery why: The Obama campaign is running down the clock.

Even as the media watched Barack Obama take on the Jeremiah Wright controversy this week, the Obama campaign appears to have quietly nixed legislation in Michigan that would have held a new primary on June 3. In Florida too, the state Democratic Party appears to have given up on a revote.


Or the Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080319/NEWS01/80319012/1003/news01

Another Democratic primary, however, was looking less likely today as supporters of Obama in Michigan and his campaign cast doubt on whether they will support a do-over.

State Sen. Buzz Thomas, a Detroit Democrat and cochair of Obama’s campaign in Michigan, said he wouldn’t support legislation for another election because the proposed bill “is so riddled with problems that they overwhelm any possible positive outcome for the people of Michigan.”

and 1260 other news articles this morning.

The Obama people are simply in favor of rules rather than people. Voter suppression because it helps the Obama campaign. Not surprising, typical politics, and really typical Chicago style politics.

[Patchuli]

68. Oh yeah, the WSJ

I really take that right-wing tool paper to heart.

I'd love to see a re-vote. With Obama ON the ballot this time.

[mbperrin]

69. Perhaps you missed the Detroit Free Press snip

as well as the mention of 1260 other news stories.

And your candidate certainly does not want a revote, that is why his campaign manager in Michigan is fighting it tooth and nail.

Look, if you're for voter suppression, just say so! I'm the one who wants a revote with anybody at all on the ballot that wants to be there!

But if you insist on simply ignoring the facts, then you've entered the "we create our own reality zone", and that's currently inhabited by some rather unsavory characters.

But don't say your candidate supports a revote when he doesn't. That's just simple respect for the truth.

[Patchuli]

71. Perhaps so

but I support a re-vote by mail. Too bad no one listens to me!

[JerseygirlCT]

59. Because she's looking for something else to blame on him?

Because it's politically expedient to do so?

[Sweet Pea]

7. So....

I guess "count every vote" only works for the general election. Nice.

[mbperrin]

13. I know. I belong to the party of INCLUSION.

Now, because some don't like the decisions of party leaders, the voters of Michigan will be punished collectively. That is a war crime.

I guess as long as the "right" people vote, it's OK.

After all, rules are more important than people.

Right?

[Politicalboi]

18. Yes sometimes they are

They ALL agreed to it and you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. If the shoe were on the other foot you bet your ass Hillary would be doing the same thing.

[mbperrin]

22. Rules? I want to talk about votes.

Are you suggesting that Obama is involved in voter suppression in Michigan under guise of the rules? I want all the voters represented NO MATTER which candidate they support. I know, radical idea, next thing, there'll be this one vote one man thing.

[Lance_Boyle]

64. you can't have voting without rules.

cart before horse, and all. The rules were laid out, all candidates (even St. Hillary) agreed to them, then FL and MI decided to go their own way, agreed-upon rules be damned. So, ipso fatso, MI and FL primary votes be damned, too.

[spoony]

65. Rules are meant to serve the voters, not the other way around.

[Lance_Boyle]

66. *these* rules are meant to govern the conduct of primaries

and how exactly did MI's willful choice and FL's willful choice to give up their delegates "serve the voters?" None too well, apparently, since the votes ain't gonna count.

[Igel]

58. The rules say the Jan. elections don't count.

The rules allow for elections later in the primary season to count, as long as they are according to the rules.

There's no rule saying that you can only have one stab at having an election.

In other words: Don't count the January elections; that's abiding by the rules. If they have a later election, those should count; that's also abiding by the rules.

One problem is that BO's campaign didn't like one rule: If you vote in a repub primary, then you can't also vote in the parallel dem primary. The claim is that people voted repub who would have voted for BO in MI and FL, and so the rule needs to be changed for a revote so that BO can get his share of repub/indie support ... else no revote. There's a similar claim that repubs are skewing the dem vote for HRC (a claim I think is incomplete); excluding people that voted repub from a revote would nix that possibility, as well.

There are other rules. For example, one rule is that unpledged official and leadership delegates are free agents; people really want that rule somehow abridged so that they can only vote for whoever has a majority of the popular vote or regular delegates. I even saw a principled call for requiring supers to declare in June, after the last scheduled primary--at least that person recognized it as a rule change. But rulez is rulez. Can't have a good Greek tragedy unless everybody plays by the rules.

[Zhade]

28. It's not a "war crime". Get a fucking dictionary already.

NT!

[mbperrin]

42. Get a copy of the fucking Geneva Convention!

No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible.

Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907, Article 50


Tisn't new, laddie. More than a century old.


Read a little wider than the dictionary, son. Get some analysis, thinking, and so on.

Just some friendly advice to ya offered in the same generous spirit you exhibited to me.

[Zhade]

45. Wow, you're really reaching. THIS ISN'T A WAR, GENIUS.

NT!

[mbperrin]

48. So it's OK to do things prohibited in wartime when it's

your own domestic population?

I bet you think it's OK to lie not under oath as well.

Your name calling abilities are a bit limited for a rabid dictionary reader, aren't they?

Knee jerk authoritarian concrete boob, you. Could you perhaps use just one little bit of critical thinking here? Just one? Even in wartime, an occupying power wouldn't be allowed to do what's being done here, which is collective punishment. But somehow, it all comes clean when it's your own party members doing it to you. Right?

I don't even give a flying fuck who ends up benefiting from it. I'm interested in the voters here. But I suppose that makes me an anachronistic dreamer who got tear gassed and beat with clubs in the late 60s, early 70s, and all for nothing now.

Sad, really. Perhaps a small person like myself of no importance should just give up. Perhaps I will.

Remember, keep the jackboots shiny and the lightning bolts polished. Your betters like that. Bye.

[magellan]

20. Not hardly

"Count every vote" hasn't been the priority for ANY election in some time.

[sharesunited]

9. My original post

in the correct forum. Yay me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5176875&mesg_id=5176875

[RiverStone]

10. Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm of Michigan = total hypocrite!

She says today: There is no road to the White House that does not go through Michigan, so it is essential that Michigan voters have a voice in who will be our party’s nominee and, ultimately, the next president of the United States.

Well Ms. Granholm, this whole fucking mess would be moot if you and the arrogant Dem party leaders did not give the finger to Howard Dean and the DNC in the first place. You broke the rules --- and now dare to whine about it!

As an aside, I do believe MI voters got screwed in the process and deserve a re-do, but she sure as hell should not politicize it or blame Obama. He is up for it, if it is FAIR. I do hope some agreeable settlement happens - because it would be a mistake to leave MI voters out of it.

I'm just saying the idiots that caused this to happen in the first place - knowing the consequences - they need to shoulder the burden of blame here.

[Zhade]

30. Very fair - and accurate - analysis.

NT!

[JerseygirlCT]

60. Yes. It annoys the heck out of me to hear them pointing fingers

everywhere but themselves.

They decided to call what they thought was a bluff. They got caught. The citizens in MI have a right to feel pissed about it - but if they're looking for blame, look to their own legislature and Governor.

[bluestateguy]

11. I'd be fine with seating the delegates 56%-44% in favor of Hillary

Just give Obama the uncommitted and other votes, and Hillary 56% of the delegates, and no superdelegates for Michigan, and no re-vote.

[AZ Criminal JD]

19. It would be fine with you but it would violate Michigan election law.

[Zhade]

31. No. It was not a legitimate election. clinton broke the agreement by leaving her name on the ballot.

She doesn't get to cheat. Get the fuck over it.

[wordpix]

72. and wasn't she the ONLY one to have her name on the ballot? I think so

[AZ Criminal JD]

76. You think wrong.

Dodd, Kuchinich and Gravel also had their names on the ballot. Obama supporters always have a problem with the facts.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AZ Criminal JD]

77. There was no agreement by the candidates to take their names off the ballot.

They agreed not to campaign there and Kucinich was the only one to break that when he campaigned there. There were four candidates on the ballot besides 'uncommitted'.

[BearSquirrel2]

37. Hillary would sue ...

Are you kidding? Hillary would sue if they gave the uncommited vote to Obama. And under the rules she would be correct as NONE of the votes are supposed to count under the rules.

[Purveyor]

12. Local Lansing news is now reporting that the party officials are reconsidering caucuses.

Nothing to link to because this was a reported on a tv newscast (WLNS-Lansing).

[99th_Monkey]

24. Queen Hillary has said she "will not accept a MI caucus"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/07/clinton-i-would-not-acc_n_90391.html

[Yael]

14. My heart is just breaking for Ms. Granholm

Ok, I lied.

She tossed the dice, she lost.

[PassingFair]

15. C-A-U-C-U-S

Let's have one.

[99th_Monkey]

26. but, but ... HIllary "won't accept" that. I guess she doesn't want any MI delegates

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/07/clinton-i-would-not-acc_n_90391.html

[johnl235]

16. Not only is the Do Over dead

But so is any reasonable chance of hillary overtaking obama. SHe is now willing to humiliate him with a big win in Penn only to face her fate after. She should drop out now. This will allow Obama the embarrassment of a loss in Penn. She still would be considered if the Wright problem is making him seem unelectable before the election.

[nodehopper]

21. I just read your post three times and it still makes no sense

[customerserviceguy]

23. Yeah,

I'm on my third beer, and I thought that was the reason...

[Zhade]

25. Please remember who to blame: "Now that the Legislature has decided not to act"

And, of course, the Dems who signed off on breaking the rules in the first place. It sucks for the voters.

But make no mistake, the delegates WILL NOT be counted as-is; it was not a legitimate election.

[dailykoff]

39. Were they the geniuses who moved it up in the first place?

Real nice bunch if they were.

[Zhade]

46. I'm not arguing that the voters weren't fucked with, just who did the fucking.

NT!

[dailykoff]

49. Oh I agree, I was just asking if it was the same bunch who moved it up

in the first place. I'm assuming it is but I just wasn't sure.

[LulaMay]

29. Thanks Obama campaign! Democrats REALLY needed to look like the ones disenfranchising voters.

[Zhade]

32. Despite your lies, it's not the Obama campaign's fault.

Take your medication.

[LulaMay]

33. Ask MI voters how they feel about it.

[Psephos]

34. I'm a MI voter, and I don't like the idea of breaking election law or dishonoring pledges

Regardless of who it benefits.

[Zhade]

35. Looks like I didn't have to ask, someone who actually believes in fairness already answered.

Checkmate.

[KAZ]

47. Lying sack of shit. Take it to GDP.

[PassingFair]

51. Wanna see copies of my letters to Levin and Granholm?

How about my screed to Mark Brewer?

Michigan voters who were WATCHING
KNOW who is to blame, and it ISN'T

"the Biden, Richardson, Edwards,
Kucinich and Obama CONSPIRACY to
DISENFRANCHISE Michigan because we
hate things that look like MITTENS"
syndicate!

A multi-million dollar re-do, paid
for by Clinton's friends?

We'll take a CAUCUS, as we should have
done from the start.

Just like we had in 04!

[Pathwalker]

53. That was 2000. 2004 was a primary.

I know - I voted. In both.

[PassingFair]

54. No. I'm not one to argue though....

It seemed like a primary, because caucuses
DON'T have to involve discussions like in
Iowa.....



http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/09/internet.voting.ap/index.html

snip>Michigan caucuses drew 46,000 online voters

Monday, February 9, 2004 Posted: 12:19 PM EST (1719 GMT)
LANSING, Michigan (AP) -- More than 46,000 people voted in Michigan's Democratic caucuses via the Internet, a showing party officials called a success.

[Pathwalker]

55. There was also a primary. An IN PERSON primary.

Where I went and voted for DEAN. edited to provide link to Primary results.
Link: http://miboecfr.nicusa.com/election/candlist/04PRI/04PRI_CL.HTM

[PassingFair]

56. It was a CAUCUS.

I was allowed INTO THE BUILDING to campaign for
Dean because it was a CAUCUS!

We're probably coming from the same place here
so no flames, but we held caucuses in 04.

:)

[PassingFair]

57. Check the dates and races on the info you posted....

August primary for Senate seats, et.al.

:)

[JerseygirlCT]

61. They ought to look to their own leglislature and Gov. if they

want to blame people.

This can in no way be construed as Obama's fault. Look to Granholm and company - there's where the problem starts.

[PassingFair]

62. Yup.

And Michigan voters who are paying ATTENTION
KNOW it!

[goforit]

73. LOL!!! Disenfranchising?? Yet, they change the rules and vote twice instead,eh?

Don't be a poor loser.

[BearSquirrel2]

36. No delegates for you !!!

Guess what, then Michigan loses it's voice in the DNC this year.

[BearSquirrel2]

38. Honestly, what they can do ...

Honestly, what they can do is conduct a REALLY good poll and use sound methodology. Then just allot delegates according to those percentages. They would ask the household if they planned on voting for a Republican in the general before asking there preference and just throw those opinions out.

[dailykoff]

40. They had a chance to do it right and they punted.

I'm guessing they don't want to do it right.

[MilesColtrane]

63. Granholm signed the bill into law that moved up the primary, breaching the DNC's agreed schedule.

Ms. Granholm YOU (along with Levin and otheres) screwed Michigan Democrats out of a vote.

Instead of berating the legislature for not fixing your ego driven mistake, you should apologize to your constituents and resign in shame.

[knitter4democracy]

67. Thanks a lot, MIGOP.

The GOP controls the State Senate and does it's darndest to control the State House (numbers are close). They're the ones who started this along with Dingell, Levin, and Granholm. This just keeps getting better and better for the GOP here. :puke:

[progetto]

70. This is a mess

Apparently some folks crossed over to vote in the republican
primary where they thought their vote would count.  Should
they be allowed to participate in a re-vote ?   Doesn't bother
me, but it might not be legal.

Open primaries are looking like a bad idea.