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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:26 AM
Original message
Venezuela's Chavez blames U.S. for Tibet unrest
Source: Reuters

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela's socialist President Hugo Chavez blamed the United States for violent protests in Tibet during the last two weeks that he said were aimed at trying to destabilize China.

In comments reported by his press office on Sunday, Chavez said the protests were an example of the U.S. "empire" "going against China" and trying to divide the Asian powerhouse.

Communist China has occupied Tibet, a Buddhist region previously ruled by monks, since a military invasion in 1950.

At least 19 people were killed after protests and rioting against the occupation broke out on March 10.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSN2330162720080324
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. way to stick up for the little guy Hugo n/t
n/t
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. He may be supporting separation of church and state n/t
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. through killing people. good one.
I'll add that to my collection of greatest hits.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Do communist deserve the same rights?
sometimes they are the little guys who are murder, Los Jesuits in El Salvador, Geraldi in Guatemala, The members of the Union Patriotica in Colombia, The Students in Mexico, The Students in Chile, The Argentinians, you name it any country in latin america.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. He may well be. doing that We never hear what the poor people want. They
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 02:53 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
never have a voice, as far as the monied folk are concerned. Certainly not one our media are interested in hearing.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. We did see the results of their wishes, however, when we learned that after their media had blacked
out ALL information about the armed kidnapping of their elected President, and the opposition destroyed the only tv station which would have informed them of the kidnapping, someone got the message out to them anyway, and they poured into the streets and surrounded the Presidential Palace and would not leave until he was returned. and spoke to them.

They live in memory of a time they poured into the streets protesting the U.S. puppet Carlos Andres Perez's horrendous price hikes to fuel, food, etc., and they were mowed down by his troops in the El Caracazo massacre, February, 1989, which made their minds up for them that they would NEVER return to that condition again, and initiated the Bolivarian revolution.

You also must recognize, as I do, that we NEVER heard of the U.S. favored puppet's attack on the poor of his country. He was later impeached and imprisoned for massive corruption, and he maintains homes in New York, and Miami, as well as points south.

We do hear from the "little" people, but it's always years later, and TOTALLY different from the stories our media tell us!

Only hardened, murderous scum would continue to try to trick others into supporting U.S. right-wingers' amoral schemes against the common citizens of Latin America. Pointing fingers at Hugo Chavez and claiming he conspires against their freedom is truly dishonest, laughable and what we've grown to expect to see from some quarters!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Is bashing America really all that gratifying, Hugo?
The Tibetan people should have the same human right to maintain their cultural identity that every other ethnic group enjoys. There is no reason that China cannot grant to the Tibetans that human right. There is no reason to punish monks. There is no reason to insist that the Tibetans remain a part of China.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. That is like having a military base in Germany, Ecuador or Colombia n/t
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Naturally. It has nothing to do with China's brutal occupation. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. Sucking up to China. Tsk. nt
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. Love the AP's 'some people say' reporting.
The single word quotes make it all the more accurate.

:crazy:


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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Bacchus' favorite style of reporting..
.. when it comes to reporting on lefties.



-


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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. and your style of reporting Prensa Latina correct????
if its negative against Cuba, your style of posting is denial, denial, denial. correct Mika???
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. No. My fav style actually refers to sources, not the "some people say" style you seem to prefer.
Maybe you're confused between style and sources? :shrug:


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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. so Reuters isn't a source? does the article say, "some people say Chavez blames the US"
no it does not. You are just making that up, as usual.

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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Huh? You are really flailing now.
You post your own quote and then attribute it to me and then accuse me of making that up?

Seriously. Take a break. You are losing it.

=

Here's the quote from the OP article.
In comments reported by his press office on Sunday, Chavez said the protests were an example of the U.S. "empire" "going against China" and trying to divide the Asian powerhouse.


What's up with the out of context single word, and then the three word quotes?

That's not reporting. Its room for worms to squirm.


-


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freedomnorth Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. And they always forget to mention Bush as capitalist president
unlike here when speaking of Chavez. :shrug:
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. I noticed that one too n/t
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
46. Haven't found the full text but here are some excepts from AFP via Univision:
Chávez rechaza condena internacional a China por disturbios en el Tibet
24 de Marzo de 2008, 03:32pm ET
CARACAS, 24 Mar 2008 (AFP) -

... "<Vean> las imágenes de violencia en el Tibet, ¿contra quién es esto? Contra China, es el imperio (Estados Unidos) que quiere debilitar a China, porque China se levanta" ...

"Es un plan muy viejo del Imperialismo; dividir al (estado del) Zulia de Venezuela, es un plan que tiene más de 100 años" ...

"¿Ustedes saben que Panamá era parte de la Gran Colombia? Estados Unidos logró independizarlo (...) Ahora a la Yugoslavia, esa gran nación del Mariscal Tito, la bombardearon, la agredieron, la destrozaron y ahora la dividieron, le quitaron Kosovo, pasando por encima del derecho internacional" ...

"Es el Imperio el que quiere debilitar a Rusia. La independencia, entre comillas, de Kosovo apunta contra Rusia y su esfuerzo de fortalecer una confederación de repúblicas que antes fueron la Unión Soviética" ...

http://www.univision.com/contentroot/wirefeeds/world/7438520.html


U.S. Intervention in Venezuela and in Latin America
by Noam Chomsky
October 13, 2006

... In Venezuela, the oil is in Zulia province, which is where the opposition candidate is coming from, right on the boarder of Colombia (one of the only states <in Latin America> where the US has a firm military presence). It’s a rich province, pretty anti-Chavez, and it happens to be where most of the oil is, and in fact there is rumor of a Zulia independence movement, which, if they can carry it off, the US could then intervene to protect against the dictator. That’s Venezuela ... http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11182

The Panama Canal and the U.S. Columbia War
By Benjamin Bodnar
ICE Case Studies
Number 169, Spring, 2006

... The burgeoning U.S. fleet needed to be able to move between the Caribbean and Pacific easier than taking the 18,000 mile route around South America. Secretary of State John Hay went to Colombia to negotiate the terms in buying the region so that the U.S. could start construction in the Colombian province of Panama. The Colombian Congress rejected the offer. Roosevelt who did not think highly of the Colombian government, demonstrated in this quote: "We were dealing with a government of irresponsible bandits," Roosevelt stormed. "I was prepared to . . . at once occupy the Isthmus anyhow, and proceed to dig the canal. But I deemed it likely that there would be a revolution in Panama soon." ( http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/joining.html ) The U.S. sent battleships outside of Colon and Panama City to prevent the Colombian army from mobilizing, while the Panamanian rebels declared independence on November 3, 1903. The U.S. guaranteed sovereignty to Panama and paid them $10 million up front in order to have control over the canal zone ...

http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/panama-canal.htm

Kosovo and U.S. Policy:
Background and Current Issues
Updated October 24, 2007

... Kosovo represents the last majorunfinished business from the wars of Yugoslav succession in the 1990s ... In mid-2005, the U.N. began a lengthy process to address Kosovo’s status. After some delays, U.N. envoy and former Finnish President Martti Ahtisaari released in early2007 a status proposal calling for Kosovo’s supervised independence with extensive minority rights. After Ahtisaari formallypresented his proposal to the U.N. SecurityCouncil on March 26, the status process became stalled in the Security Council. The United States and some European countries backed the Ahtisaari plan, but Russia remained strongly opposed to it and threatened to wield its veto in the Security Council ...

<pdf:> http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31053.pdf
<HTML by google:> http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Mh8t2vbRMs0J:www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31053.pdf+KOsovo+US&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

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stimbox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. The C.I.A. has a history of interference in Tibet.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. History of Tibet
---

A second, larger, expedition sent by Emperor Kangxi expelled the Dzungars from Tibet in 1720 and the troops were hailed as liberators. They brought Kelzang Gyatso with them from Kumbum to Lhasa and he was installed as the seventh Dalai Lama in 1721.<78>

Following the Qing withdrawal from central Tibet in 1723, there was a period of civil war. Amdo, meanwhile, was declared a Chinese territory under the name Kokonor ('Blue Lake'). (This became the province of Qinghai in 1929.)

China began posting two high commissioners, or ambans, to Lhasa in 1727. Pro-Chinese historians argue that the ambans' presence was an expression of Chinese sovereignty, while those favouring Tibetan claims tend to equate the ambans with ambassadors. "The relationship between Tibet and (Qing) China was that of priest and patron and was not based on the subordination of one to the other," according to the 13th Dalai Lama.<79>

Pho-lha-nas, an important Tibetan aristocrat, ruled Tibet with Chinese support in 1728-47. In 1728 the young 7th Dalai Lama, Kelzang Gyatso was invited to visit Beijing,<80> but Pho-lha-nas only had him moved from Lhasa to Litang to make it more difficult for him to influence the government. After Pho-lha-nas died, his son ruled until he was killed by the ambans in 1750. This provoked riots during which the ambans were killed. A Chinese army entered the country and restored order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet#18th_and_19th_centuries
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
18. Way to go Bacchus!
Filling this thread with smears, insults, false accusations flaming, misquotes, & misrepresentations.

Result - mass deletions of posts replying to your misrepresentations.

A tested and working tactic you use repeatedly.


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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. you would think from that characterization that I studied under Chavez
go Hugo, go China!!!!!
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thank you for showing me the light Great Leader Hugo!
America is the cause of all problems in the world!

Evil Evil Evil!!

Those Tibetan monks were probably capitalist swines that deserved to die for the good of our coming Socialist Paradise!
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Anyone have a link to Chavez' full remarks?
So far all I see is Reuters claiming he said something, without actually reporting what he said. And of course the usual people jumping on the bandwagon, ready to believe them without evidence.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It's not being carried by anyone else. I've looked.
Reuters and AP both have been in the disinformation business for a long time. What a shame any of us were ever lead to blindly trust them in the first place!
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6th Borough Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. Eh, Tibet should never have invaded in the 1300's.
China has a long, long history of absorbing those outsiders on its borders who have chosen to attack/harass the Han.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. Still Waiting for Exact Quotes from Hugo "Supporting China's Oppression of Tibet"
can't seem to find any. So I guess it's just an assumption being made by certain people with very little to back up their claim.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That would be two major news wires...(nt)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Still Waiting for Exact Quotes.... I'm not Interested in your Spin. Still Nothing (nt)
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 05:43 PM by fascisthunter
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Why not share your two major news wire stories with DU'ers? Do they provide a link
to the speech?

It would be civilized of them to share their source, and the direct quotes in context, since they believe they've got the accurate "take" on his message. It would actually be expected in respectable journalism.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Call reuters. They are sourcing
the man in red himself, not like I sat around and wrote it.

It will be a PR nightmare for our favorite little guy..

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INDIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. And so Judi Lynn comes to a fork in the road...
Path 1) "The US government has tried to overthrow him and other governments in the past, so of COURSE he would assume such a likely chain of events and say such a thing. It makes perfect sense! CIA, CIA, Colombia, Corporations!"

Path 2) "He never said such a ridiculous statement! The major news services are LYING! I want to see the speech transcript! He never said this!"

Decisions...decisions...:think:


There is the third option of course, where you acknowledge that even your heroes can be flawed, and say/believe boneheaded things. But if you ever offered even passing criticism of Chavez, I think I would pass out and fall out of my chair.



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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. You're here to take cheap shots at posters. Do you ever have anything worthwhile to add?
Spend some time trying to show how your post is actually more than gibberish.

Might as well start acting like an adult, and do some serious thinking for a change. We're not here for you to waste our time.
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INDIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Gibberish? I apologize. Let me translate. You are offering up two conflicting arguments defending
Chavez on this thread. You can't have both, it's one or the other. Which is it?

Your Post #24) Chavez said this, and it's perfectly fine that he did because and it's reasonable to believe that the Evil US would do such a thing because of...(South American history lesson.)

Your Posts #26 and #31) The Media lies about Chavez all the time. I don't believe he said this until somebody shows me a transcript of his speech.

You are contradicting yourself in an effort to defend Chavez at all costs. I have NEVER seen you offer even mild criticism against the man. I consider myself a strong supporter of Obama, yet I can comfortably criticize his shortcomings while still holding him in overall high esteem. After all, even our heroes are still human Judi Lynn. People would probably value your opinion more on South America if you didn't present yourself as such a rabid ideologue. Not to mention how condescending you sound when you tell people to "educate" themselves.

I've found that the truth can usually be found a little left of center.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Really! Here's post #24:
We did see the results of their wishes, however, when we learned that after their media had blacked
out ALL information about the armed kidnapping of their elected President, and the opposition destroyed the only tv station which would have informed them of the kidnapping, someone got the message out to them anyway, and they poured into the streets and surrounded the Presidential Palace and would not leave until he was returned. and spoke to them.

They live in memory of a time they poured into the streets protesting the U.S. puppet Carlos Andres Perez's horrendous price hikes to fuel, food, etc., and they were mowed down by his troops in the El Caracazo massacre, February, 1989, which made their minds up for them that they would NEVER return to that condition again, and initiated the Bolivarian revolution.

You also must recognize, as I do, that we NEVER heard of the U.S. favored puppet's attack on the poor of his country. He was later impeached and imprisoned for massive corruption, and he maintains homes in New York, and Miami, as well as points south.

We do hear from the "little" people, but it's always years later, and TOTALLY different from the stories our media tell us!

Only hardened, murderous scum would continue to try to trick others into supporting U.S. right-wingers' amoral schemes against the common citizens of Latin America. Pointing fingers at Hugo Chavez and claiming he conspires against their freedom is truly dishonest, laughable and what we've grown to expect to see from some quarters!
Your analysis:
Your Post #24) Chavez said this, and it's perfectly fine that he did because and it's reasonable to believe that the Evil US would do such a thing because of...(South American history lesson.)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post #26:
It's not being carried by anyone else. I've looked.
Reuters and AP both have been in the disinformation business for a long time. What a shame any of us were ever lead to blindly trust them in the first place!
and Post #31:
Why not share your two major news wire stories with DU'ers? Do they provide a link to the speech?

It would be civilized of them to share their source, and the direct quotes in context, since they believe they've got the accurate "take" on his message. It would actually be expected in respectable journalism.
Your analyis:
Your Posts #26 and #31) The Media lies about Chavez all the time. I don't believe he said this until somebody shows me a transcript of his speech.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You need to grasp what you're attempting to read. That clearly was not what was written.

Speaking of credibility of the major corporate news sources, please see the following:
The Media

Journalism is a perfect cover for CIA agents. People talk freely to journalists, and few think suspiciously of a journalist aggressively searching for information. Journalists also have power, influence and clout. Not surprisingly, the CIA began a mission in the late 1940s to recruit American journalists on a wide scale, a mission it dubbed Operation MOCKINGBIRD. The agency wanted these journalists not only to relay any sensitive information they discovered, but also to write anti-communist, pro-capitalist propaganda when needed.

The instigators of MOCKINGBIRD were Frank Wisner, Allan Dulles, Richard Helms and Philip Graham. Graham was the husband of Katherine Graham, today’s publisher of the Washington Post. In fact, it was the Post’s ties to the CIA that allowed it to grow so quickly after the war, both in readership and influence. (8)

MOCKINGBIRD was extraordinarily successful. In no time, the agency had recruited at least 25 media organizations to disseminate CIA propaganda. At least 400 journalists would eventually join the CIA payroll, according to the CIA’s testimony before a stunned Church Committee in 1975. (The committee felt the true number was considerably higher.) The names of those recruited reads like a Who's Who of journalism:
  • Philip and Katharine Graham (Publishers, Washington Post)
  • William Paley (President, CBS)
  • Henry Luce (Publisher, Time and Life magazine)
  • Arthur Hays Sulzberger (Publisher, N.Y. Times)
  • Jerry O'Leary (Washington Star)
  • Hal Hendrix (Pulitzer Prize winner, Miami News)
  • Barry Bingham Sr., (Louisville Courier-Journal)
  • James Copley (Copley News Services)
  • Joseph Harrison (Editor, Christian Science Monitor)
  • C.D. Jackson (Fortune)
  • Walter Pincus (Reporter, Washington Post)
  • ABC
  • NBC
  • Associated Press
  • United Press International
  • Reuters
  • Hearst Newspapers
  • Scripps-Howard
  • Newsweek magazine
  • Mutual Broadcasting System
  • Miami Herald
  • Old Saturday Evening Post
  • New York Herald-Tribune
Perhaps no newspaper is more important to the CIA than the Washington Post, one of the nation’s most right-wing dailies. Its location in the nation’s capitol enables the paper to maintain valuable personal contacts with leading intelligence, political and business figures. Unlike other newspapers, the Post operates its own bureaus around the world, rather than relying on AP wire services. Owner Philip Graham was a military intelligence officer in World War II, and later became close friends with CIA figures like Frank Wisner, Allen Dulles, Desmond FitzGerald and Richard Helms. He inherited the Post by marrying Katherine Graham, whose father owned it.

After Philip’s suicide in 1963, Katharine Graham took over the Post. Seduced by her husband’s world of government and espionage, she expanded her newspaper’s relationship with the CIA. In a 1988 speech before CIA officials at Langley, Virginia, she stated:
We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things that the general public does not need to know and shouldn’t. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows.
This quote has since become a classic among CIA critics for its belittlement of democracy and its admission that there is a political agenda behind the Post’s headlines.

Ben Bradlee was the Post’s managing editor during most of the Cold War. He worked in the U.S. Paris embassy from 1951 to 1953, where he followed orders by the CIA station chief to place propaganda in the European press. (9) Most Americans incorrectly believe that Bradlee personifies the liberal slant of the Post, given his role in publishing the Pentagon Papers and the Watergate investigations. But neither of these two incidents are what they seem. The Post merely published the Pentagon Papers after The New York Times already had, because it wanted to appear competitive. As for Watergate, we’ll examine the CIA’s reasons for wanting to bring down Nixon in a moment. Someone once asked Bradlee: "Does it irk you when The Washington Post is made out to be a bastion of slanted liberal thinkers instead of champion journalists just because of Watergate?" Bradlee responded: "Damn right it does!" (10)

It would be impossible to elaborate in this short space even the most important examples of the CIA/media alliance. Sig Mickelson was a CIA asset the entire time he was president of CBS News from 1954 to 1961. Later he went on to become president of Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty, two major outlets of CIA propaganda.

The CIA also secretly bought or created its own media companies. It owned 40 percent of the Rome Daily American at a time when communists were threatening to win the Italian elections. Worse, the CIA has bought many domestic media companies. A prime example is Capital Cities, created in 1954 by CIA businessman William Casey (who would later become Reagan’s CIA director). Another founder was Lowell Thomas, a close friend and business contact with CIA Director Allen Dulles. Another founder was CIA businessman Thomas Dewey. By 1985, Capital Cities had grown so powerful that it was able to buy an entire TV network: ABC.

For those who believe in "separation of press and state," the very idea that the CIA has secret propaganda outlets throughout the media is appalling. The reason why America was so oblivious to CIA crimes in the 40s and 50s was because the media willingly complied with the agency. Even today, when the immorality of the CIA should be an open-and-shut case, "debate" about the issue rages in the media. Here is but one example:

In 1996, The San Jose Mercury News published an investigative report suggesting that the CIA had sold crack in Los Angeles to fund the Contra war in Central America. A month later, three of the CIA’s most important media allies — The Washington Post, The New York Times and The Los Angeles Times — immediately leveled their guns at the Mercury report and blasted away in an attempt to discredit it. Who wrote the Post article? Walter Pincus, longtime CIA journalist. The dangers here are obvious.
http://www.aliveness.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html



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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. A very elegant attack on the source
either he said it or he did not. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

Are you saying the cia planted the story, for the record?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Did I say that, pavulon? I think you're mother is calling you. n/t
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. The media..not the poster
I mean if they are all cia we can dismiss them all, selectively.

If he said it we can enjoy watching him get squished in the press. You shill for chavez so this should be fun.

He is a moron, Even if we backed tibet, that means we are backing the good guys. Maybe he is just pulling for the guys in red?

I figured out what his game was a few years ago.
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I don't think Chavez is saying anything bad about Tibet
He just said the thing was escalated into a political and PR stunt by the US, which, although there is no proof, doesn't seem so far fetched to me. He probably shouldn't be publicly speculating about those things, but I think you have quite a biased view of Chavez yourself.
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. The problem is, this shouldn't even be a story.
It's only a story because of the US media's fixation and obsession with Chavez and every little thing he says. It's certainly possible that what Chavez says is true. It's also possible that he's full of it, and just riling up is base like any politician would do. But what difference does that make? The only reason this is news is because Hugo Chavez said it, and the US media is obsessed with making him look bad.

My first thought about those protests was that the US tried to escalate the conflict to evoke a stern response from China. I wouldn't have speculated about that publicly like Chavez did, but so what? There's like an anti-personality cult involving the US media and Chavez. It's like that girl in high school that is in love with you so much that she hates you or something.

Non-story.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. The man in red makes the story
by being a flamboyant press whore. He is jesus che to some and a power consolidating figure to others.

It is news.
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. I doubt Chavez asked the AP to report that.
The media is just a hype machine.

Chavez isn't Jesus or Che, nor is he a dictator. He's a pretty successful and popular president with a big mouth and a bigger heart. He's also working to liberate people who have been oppressed for a long, long time, and he's doing a good job of it. He's not without his faults, though.

With all the unfair bashing he gets in the regular media, it's no surprise that people are extra motivated to stand up for him here, though. I don't know why you seem so stunned that people like him on here.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #33
58. Cognitive Dissonance, a case study
Right here on DU!

C.D. is a pervasive feeling of tension and discomfort from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind simultaneously.

Dissonance increases with:
- The personal importance of the subject, especially when concerning personal image
- The magnitude of the conflict
- An inability to rationalize or explain away the conflict despite strong effort

Dissonance is strongest when actions negate a previously-expressed or cherished belief. The discomfort rises until one of three remedies is applied:
- Change in actions
- Justify actions by changing the conflicting beliefs
- Justify actions by adding new beliefs while shoring up old beliefs

Dissonant tension rises to the breaking point when it impinges upon self-image. Internalized feelings of foolishness, immorality, and self-anger are dissonance in action. The dissonant person will often mask their conflict by outwardly using belittlement, condescension, an air of omniscience, and pleadings of special knowledge or wisdom gained through insight and study. Unfortunately, this only establishes another cognitive dissonance.


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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
34. Who cares?
Why is this a story? It's only a story because every little thing Chavez says is used by the media to stir up controversy. This isn't any worse than McCain saying Iran is training Al-Quaeda operatives or whatever he said. Hugo talks all day long, and the US media combs whatever he says looking for tidbits like this to stir things up. He was probably just giving a speech at a political rally or something.

I wouldn't doubt that the US helped instigate the Tibet riots simply to make China look bad. We've certainly done stuff like that in the past. But no one's going to prove anything either way. I find it odd that a Buddhist nation decided to resort to violence in protests. I'm not justifying China's response at all -- and neither is Hugo from what it looks like here -- but that was my first thought as well when these protests are flaring up -- US operatives fueled the fire to evoke a violent response from China. I don't KNOW what really happened, so I can only speculate.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. So Who Are Those Reporters And Who Is Paying Them?
So exactly who are these reporters,Frank Jack Daniel, Enrique Andres Pretel and Vicki Allen and who do they work for?

Could they be right-wingers. Yes. Could they be on the payroll of the CIA or other Bush government agency? Yes.

Does anyone know?

Oh .... you might want to visit on occasion the Press Information Office of the Venezuelan government at:


http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/index.html
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Andrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
45. Link? Anyone? Anyone?
"In comments reported by his press office on Sunday..."

Which are... where? Does his "press office" have a website?

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GeniusLib Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
48. China is the fastest growing consumer of oil in the world
and far less likely to adopt alternative energy solutions than the U.S.

Hugo doesn't want to piss them off
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
49. Chavez blames US for a perverse campaign against Milosevic

as part of his China remarks.

En materia internacional, Chávez se refirió a las revueltas en el Tíbet, a las que se refirió afirmando que: "la violencia en el Tibet, todo esto es contra China, detrás de todo esto está la mano del imperio".

(On the international front, Chavez referred to the riots in Tibet, in which he affirmed that "the violence in Tibet, all this against China, behind this is the hand of the empire."


Indicó también que la independencia de Kosovo también respondería a intereses imperialistas, y aseguró que el "imperio" desarrolló una "campaña perversa" contra el ex mandatario serbio Milosevic, con el objetivo de detener el avance del socialismo en la ex Yugoslavia.


(He indicated as well that the independence of Kosovo would respond to imperial interests, and assured that the "empire" developed a perverse campaign against the ex-leader of Serbia Milosevic, with the objective of detaining the advance of socialism in the ex-Yugoslavia)

and another link from the International Herald Tribune in English.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/25/sports/LA-SPT-OLY-Beijing-Tibet-Chavez.php
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. and another article with the AP source
http://noticias.aol.com/articulos/_a/venezuelas-chavez-sees-us-role-in-tibet/n20080324230609990005

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez accused the United States of promoting violence in Tibet, saying Washington aims to weaken China and sabotage the Olympics in Beijing.

"The (U.S.) imperialists want to divide China. And they're causing problems there in Tibet," Chavez said in a speech Monday night. "They're trying to sabotage the Olympics in Beijing, and behind that is the hand of imperialism."

"We ask the world to support China to neutralize this plan," he added.

The deadly riots in Lhasa this month have been the largest and most sustained in almost 20 years, and China has blamed followers of the Dalai Lama for the uprising.

Chavez has built close ties with China and said in an earlier speech Monday that U.S. "imperialism is on the offensive" there.

"You see the images of the violence in Tibet. Who is that against? Against China," Chavez said. "It's the (U.S.) empire that wants to weaken China, because China is rising up."


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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Chavez on Kosovo
He called Kosovo's new leader, Prime Minister Hashim Thaci, a "terrorist" put in power by the U.S. - even though he was elected by Kosovo's parliament - and noted that the former rebel leader's nom de guerre was "The Snake."

http://noticias.aol.com/articulos/_a/venezuelas-chavez-sees-us-role-in-tibet/n20080324230609990005
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
52. Every so often Chavez does something that lets his true self "shine."
I wish we could take credit for helping Tibet, but unfortunately we get too many cheap goods from China so suddenly being "communist China" is okay.
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booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
53. I would have to disagree
If Chavez is saying that the protest in Tibet are a US engineered plot, then he needs to bring up some pretty good proof.

Especially since China probably couldn't have gotten away with it's occupation for as long as it has if the US didn't ignore China's dismal human right's record in favor of keeping the business interests dependent on China's slave labor happy.

Of course, this is assuming that Chavez hasn't been misquoted again. It's happened so often that I just don't accept any "quotes" from him at face value. I still remember when he was supposed to be "anti-semitic". That sure didn't pan out.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
54. Maybe Chavez was relying on HISTORY to assist his conclusion.
There's a great article posted in "Editorials" now which discusses the CIA's part in Tibet over the years:
Mar 26, 2008



Tibet, the 'great game' and the CIA
By Richard M Bennett

Given the historical context of the unrest in Tibet, there is reason to believe Beijing was caught on the hop with the recent demonstrations for the simple reason that their planning took place outside of Tibet and that the direction of the protesters is similarly in the hands of anti-Chinese organizers safely out of reach in Nepal and northern India.

Similarly, the funding and overall control of the unrest has also been linked to Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, and by inference to the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) because of his close cooperation with US intelligence for over 50 years.

Indeed, with the CIA's deep involvement with the Free Tibet Movement and its funding of the suspiciously well-informed Radio Free Asia, it would seem somewhat unlikely that any revolt could have been planned or occurred without the prior knowledge, and even perhaps the agreement, of the National Clandestine Service (formerly known as the Directorate of Operations) at CIA headquarters in Langley.

Respected columnist and former senior Indian Intelligence officer, B Raman, commented on March 21 that "on the basis of available evidence, it was possible to assess with a reasonable measure of conviction" that the initial uprising in Lhasa on March 14 "had been pre-planned and well orchestrated".
(snip)

Though official support for the Tibetan resistance ended 30 years ago, the CIA has kept open its lines of communications and still funds much of the Tibetan Freedom movement.

So is the CIA once again playing the "great game" in Tibet?

It certainly has the capability, with a significant intelligence and paramilitary presence in the region. Major bases exist in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and several Central Asian states.

It cannot be doubted that it has an interest in undermining China, as well as the more obvious target of Iran.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JC26Ad02.html



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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Forgot to include the link to the original thread:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
55. More information behind conclusions like Chavez' that the CIA is involved in Tibet, from a DU'er
who read this article and shared it for use in this conversation:
Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth
(updated and expanded version, January 2007)

~snip~
The issue was joined in 1956-57, when armed Tibetan bands ambushed convoys of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army. The uprising received extensive assistance from the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), including military training, support camps in Nepal, and numerous airlifts.27 Meanwhile in the United States, the American Society for a Free Asia, a CIA-financed front, energetically publicized the cause of Tibetan resistance, with the Dalai Lama’s eldest brother, Thubtan Norbu, playing an active role in that organization. The Dalai Lama's second-eldest brother, Gyalo Thondup, established an intelligence operation with the CIA as early as 1951. He later upgraded it into a CIA-trained guerrilla unit whose recruits parachuted back into Tibet.28

Many Tibetan commandos and agents whom the CIA dropped into the country were chiefs of aristocratic clans or the sons of chiefs. Ninety percent of them were never heard from again, according to a report from the CIA itself, meaning they were most likely captured and killed.29 “Many lamas and lay members of the elite and much of the Tibetan army joined the uprising, but in the main the populace did not, assuring its failure,” writes Hugh Deane.30 In their book on Tibet, Ginsburg and Mathos reach a similar conclusion: “As far as can be ascertained, the great bulk of the common people of Lhasa and of the adjoining countryside failed to join in the fighting against the Chinese both when it first began and as it progressed.”31 Eventually the resistance crumbled.
(snip)

For the rich lamas and secular lords, the Communist intervention was an unmitigated calamity. Most of them fled abroad, as did the Dalai Lama himself, who was assisted in his flight by the CIA. Some discovered to their horror that they would have to work for a living. Many, however, escaped that fate. Throughout the 1960s, the Tibetan exile community was secretly pocketing $1.7 million a year from the CIA, according to documents released by the State Department in 1998. Once this fact was publicized, the Dalai Lama’s organization itself issued a statement admitting that it had received millions of dollars from the CIA during the 1960s to send armed squads of exiles into Tibet to undermine the Maoist revolution. The Dalai Lama's annual payment from the CIA was $186,000. Indian intelligence also financed both him and other Tibetan exiles. He has refused to say whether he or his brothers worked for the CIA. The agency has also declined to comment.44

In 1995, the News & Observer of Raleigh, North Carolina, carried a frontpage color photograph of the Dalai Lama being embraced by the reactionary Republican senator Jesse Helms, under the headline “Buddhist Captivates Hero of Religious Right.”45 In April 1999, along with Margaret Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, and the first George Bush, the Dalai Lama called upon the British government to release Augusto Pinochet, the former fascist dictator of Chile and a longtime CIA client who was visiting England. The Dalai Lama urged that Pinochet not be forced to go to Spain where he was wanted to stand trial for crimes against humanity.

Into the twenty-first century, via the National Endowment for Democracy and other conduits that are more respectable sounding than the CIA, the U.S. Congress continued to allocate an annual $2 million to Tibetans in India, with additional millions for “democracy activities” within the Tibetan exile community. In addition to these funds, the Dalai Lama received money from financier George Soros.46
(snip)
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
57. Democratic Imperialism": Tibet, China, and the National Endowment for Democracy
Democratic Imperialism": Tibet, China, and the National Endowment for Democracy
by Michael Barker
Global Research, August 13, 2007

People familiar with Asian history will be aware that during Tibet’s popular uprising against their Chinese occupiers in 1959, his Holiness Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama (then aged 23), escaped from his homeland of Tibet to live in exile in India. Subsequently, the Dalai Lama formed a Tibetan government-in-exile, and to this day the Dalai Lama and his government remain in exile. The Dalai Lama’s tireless efforts to draw international attention to the Tibetan cause received a welcome boost in 1989 when he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, and since then the Dalai Lama has been able to demand sustained media attention (globally) to his ongoing non-violent struggle for a free Tibet. This part of Tibetan history is fairly uncontroversial, but a part of Tibet’s story that less people will be familiar with is Tibet’s historical links to the US’s Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Indeed, as Carole McGranahan (2006) notes “he case of Tibet presents a mostly unexplored example of covert Cold War military intervention.”<1>

While in recent years far more information has been made available concerning the CIA’s violent linkages with Tibetan forces, to date only one article has examined the connection between Tibet’s current independence campaigners and an organization that maintains close ties with the CIA, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).


The National Endowment for Democracy: Revisiting the CIA Connection

~snip~
The seminal book exposing the NED’s ‘democratic’ modus operandi, is William I. Robinson’s (1996) Promoting Polyarchy, which as it’s title suggests, lays out the argument that instead of promoting more participatory forms of democracy, the NED actually works to promote polyarchy. Robinson argues that the NED’s active promotion of polyarchy or low-intensity democracy “is aimed not only at mitigating the social and political tensions produced by elite-based and undemocratic status quos, but also at suppressing popular and mass aspirations for more thoroughgoing democratisation of social life in the twenty-first century international order.” His book furnishes detailed examples of how the NED has successfully imposed polyarchal arrangements on four countries, Chile, Nicaragua, the Philippines, and Haiti; while similarly, Barker (2006) has illustrated the NED’s anti-democratic involvement in facilitating and manipulating the ‘colour revolutions’ which recently swept across Eastern Europe. More recently, both Barker and Gerald Sussman (2006) have provided detailed examinations’ of how the NED works to promote a low intensity public sphere (globally) through its selective funding of media organizations.<13> This article will now extend these three initial studies by critically examining the NED’s support for Tibetan media projects from 1990 onwards.
(snip)

Conclusion

This article has demonstrated the close ties that exist between the Dalai Lama’s non-violent campaign for Tibetan independence and U.S. foreign policy elites who are actively supporting Tibetan causes through the NED. This finding is particularly worrying given the high international media profile of many of the groups exposed in this article, especially when it is remembered that the NED’s activities are intimately linked with those of the CIA. This funding issue is clearly problematic for Tibetan (or foreign) activists campaigning for Tibetan freedom, as the overwhelmingly anti-democratic nature of the NED can only weaken the legitimacy of the claims of any group associated with the NED. In this regard it seems only fitting that progressive activists truly concerned with promoting freedom and democracy in Tibet should first and foremost cast a critical eye over the antidemocratic funders of many of the Tibetan groups identified in this study. Only then will they be able to reappraise the sustainability of their work in the light of the NED’s controversial background. Once this step has been taken, perhaps progressive solutions for restoring democratic governance to Tibet can be generated by concerned activists, so that Tibetan people wanting to reclaim their homeland will able to be more sure that they are bringing democracy home to Tibet, not polyarchy.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6530
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