Girl in polygamist sect says was beaten (UPDATED story)

[Shakespeare]

Source: Associated Press

The 16-year-old girl whose phone call triggered the massive raid on a polygamist sect's West Texas compound told a local family violence shelter that her husband beat and raped her, according to court documents released Tuesday.

"Investigators determined that there is a widespread pattern and practice of the (Yearn for Zion) Ranch in which young, minor female residents are conditioned to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being spiritually married to them," read the affidavit signed by Lynn McFadden, a Department of Family and Protective Services investigative supervisor.

The girl called the shelter on March 29 and 30, using someone else's cell phone and speaking in hushed tones to avoid being overheard, McFadden's affidavit said.

The girl said she was not allowed to leave the compound unless she was ill. She told the shelter that her husband, would "beat and hurt" her when he got angry, including hitting her in the chest and choking her while another woman in the house held her baby. The girl also said her husband sexually assaulted her.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

---

There's a lot more background on the cult in this updated story, as well as the revelation that the 16-year-old whose calls initiated the raid is several weeks pregnant with her second child.

[Donnachaidh]

1. Read "Under the Banner of Heaven" - it will make you want to vomit

I'm stunned that anything has been done to help these women. So many have gone to the authorities in the past and gotten little or no help.

[kestrel91316]

2. Well, Texas ain't southern Utah.

When the women in UT/AZ ran for help, all the government authorities and cops in the area WERE MEMBERS. Not so in west TX.

May justice roll down like a mighty water..........

[girl gone mad]

5. West Texas may be red..

and full of fundies, but the lawmen out that way take the job seriously.

[Shakespeare]

6. And even so, it still took them 4 years in Texas.

I shudder to think what some of those girls have been through.

[DebbieCDC]

8. Yes, I read that book too

Absolutely disgusting. You notice it's all these men in their 30's-40's plus "marrying" pre-teen and teenage girls. Anywhere else that would be called what it is -- pedophilia.

[Donnachaidh]

10. exactly!

They *spiritually* marry those girls so they don't get arrested for polygamy, which is illegal in all 50 states.

ALL of those men should be castrated. :grr:

[leftynyc]

14. It also allows them (the women) to claim

federal benefits for being unwed mothers. They call it bleeding the beast (the US government).

[Triana]

16. "ALL of those men should be castrated."

I AGREE.

Religion used for molesting and abusing women and children. Happens WAY too often for me.

:mad:

[Dorian Gray]

51. They're not legally married to them

so they are raping them while holding them captive in their homes.

[High Plains]

21. Not pedophilia. That involves prepubescent kids.

Various definitions:

http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders :: Ob-Ps



Pedophilia
Definition
Pedophilia is a paraphilia that involves an abnormal interest in children. A paraphilia is a disorder that is characterized by recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving: nonhuman objects; the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner (not merely simulated); or animals, children, or other nonconsenting persons. Pedophilia is also a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or actual act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be directed toward children of the same sex or children of the other sex. Some pedophiles are attracted to both boys and girls. Some are attracted only to children, while others are attracted to adults as well as to children.

Pedophilia is defined by mental health professionals as a mental disorder, but the American legal system defines acting on a pedophilic urge as a criminal act.

Description
The focus of pedophilia is sexual activity with a child. Many courts interpret this reference to age to mean children under the age of 18. Most mental health professionals, however, confine the definition of pedophilia to sexual activity with prepubescent children, who are generally age 13 or younger. The term ephebophilia, derived from the Greek word for "youth," is sometimes used to describe sexual interest in young people in the first stages of puberty.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Pedophilia
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with Ephebophilia.

Pedophilia or paedophilia (Commonwealth usage) is the primary or exclusive sexual attraction of adults to prepubescent children. A person with this attraction is called a pedophile or paedophile.<1> The ICD-10 and DSM IV, which are standard medical diagnosis manuals, describe pedophilia as a paraphilia and mental disorder of adults or older adolescents, if it causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.<2>

Research into the etiology of pedophilia has been confounded by imprecise use of the term "pedophile" to describe those accused or convicted of child sexual abuse under sociolegal definitions of "child" (inclusive of both prepubescent children and adolescents younger than the local age of consent), rather than the correct usage that describes adult sexual attraction specifically to biological children. <3>

[Xithras]

22. Debbie did say "pre-teen" which would make it pedophile.

If a person is attracted to kids who haven't yet hit puberty, they're pedophiles whether they act on the attraction or not. It's a mental disorder.

The rest of it is a cultural thing. Morally, I don't have a problem with older men, or older WOMEN, having sex with younger people if it's consensual and non-coerced, but I understand that it's illegal because in nearly all cases it is NOT consensual and IS coerced. Even if a child is groomed into "accepting" the contact voluntarily, it's still coerced. It's not a mental disorder at that point, but it is still illegal for the protection of the underage youth, and it's a violation of our social norms. As it should be.

[High Plains]

23. Well, Debbie did say that. I don't recall "pre-teens" from the book...

...and the press reports seem to indicate the girls get married off once they're past puberty.

I think we need to make that distinction between perversion (the paraphilia of pedophilia) and inappropriate sexual behavior (sex with teenagers). Muddying the waters by screaming PEDOPHILIA!! is not helpful, or accurate.

[superconnected]

3. Thanks for the update! Interesting article.

And yeah, it's pretty clear the girls are sex toys/baby machines for the men.

[Sinistrous]

4. I would have to create a new language to adequately describe

my outrage and disgust toward the perverts in this cult.

Sinistrous

[Megahurtz]

7. And then there are those

that defend these child rapists! (without mentioning any screen names of course) :grr:

[Barrett808]

9. Now read about the Amish:

The Gentle People
Impressed by their piety, courts have permitted the Amish to live outside the law. But in some places, the group's ethic of forgive and forget has produced a plague of incest — and let many perpetrators go unpunished.

By Nadya Labi

When she wrote the letter that she hoped would protect her sister, Mary Byler was lying on a twin bed, surrounded by rainbow-colored walls and a sky-blue ceiling decorated with bright white clouds. A stereo sat on the floor beside her. There were no signs of the Amish upbringing she had left behind—no plain wood furniture or chamber pot. Nothing except a stuffed doll that had belonged to her 6-year-old sister. The little girl had put the doll's bonnet on backward.

Mary fingered her long brown hair as she thought of her sister. And she thought about her older brother, Johnny, and his refusal when she'd asked him to go to therapy the day before. She started writing. "When I was 4 years old, I was molested, when I was 6, I was sexually abused (rape) from then on till I was 17," the 19-year-old put down. "There was nothing I could do about this abuse as it was incest."

Mary gave the letter to a friend, who drove 30 minutes northwest of the house where Mary was staying in the Wisconsin town of Viroqua, past a couple of dirt roads, a string of red barns, and frozen cornfields. He waited until nearly midnight on a cold evening last February, and then put the letter in the mailbox at the white shingled home of Sam Mast, an Amish minister in the community where Mary's family lived during her teenage years.

Mary's father was killed in a buggy accident when she was 5; she remembers him pulling her onto his lap and fondling her at their home in the small town of Sugar Grove, Pa. After her father's death, Mary's family moved 100 miles south to New Wilmington, Pa., another small town, where the back roads are filled with brown buggies and white shingled homes. There, Mary's two older cousins and brothers began molesting her. Johnny told the police that his cousins encouraged him, "as far as breaking her in." (The cousins denied that, but admitted to molesting Mary.) By the time Mary was in her teens, she was being raped regularly by Johnny, who is seven years older, and her brother Eli, who is four years older. Once, Eli climbed on top of her while Johnny held her down.

There was no escape. Mary was grabbed in the bedroom, in the barn, in the outhouse, milking the cows in the morning, and on her way to school. "It did not matter how hard I tried to hide," Mary would explain in her letter to Mast, which she also sent to other Amish clergy. "If I ran upstairs to go to bed or to hide because I was at home with the boys, I'd be locking my door and turn around and there was someone crawling through my window. So my windows were always locked . . . Then they started taking off my door."

(more)

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.msp

:mad:

[CountAllVotes]

18. so much for the holier than thou Amish!

:mad: :argh: :grr:

[Critters2]

58. Another situation where generalizations aren't helpful.

I used to serve in an area that was about 50% Amish (higher than that if you consider the plain Mennonites). The school system did an evening presentation each year--actually two evenings, one for 4th graders, one for 5th--to introduce the girls to their physical changes, sexuality, etc. There was a section done by an OB/GYN nurse, a section by one of the teachers about some of the ethical issues about sexuality and other broader stuff, and a section by a social worker about inappropriate touch, etc. The section on inappropriate touch included handing out cards with the domestic violence shelter number, a reminder that most public women's rooms in the county had posters with pull tabs with the number so the girls could get the info without any men knowing, etc.

I went and just sat in the back most years, so I'd know what the girls in my congregation were learning and when. The interesting thing was how many Amish and Old Order Mennonite families who sent their girls to the rural, one-room schools would bring them to these educational evenings and make sure they got all the information. The families and the girls would ask questions, stay after for more info, in general were concerned about their kids. Sure, it wasn't every Amish family, but enough to demonstrate that they weren't all out there abusing their girls. I knew some Amish families who were every bit as good and loving with their kids as any non-Amish, and some who were better.

There's nothing in Amish culture or faith that lends itself to abuse. There are bad actors in every community. But the Amish don't have temples with special beds for abusing girls in the sight of a group of men, as the community in Texas had. To compare the two is ridiculous.

[kestrel91316]

59. Beyond ridiculous. To compare the two is downright HATEFUL.

But we already know DU has a few resident Amish-haters. They showed their true colors after the Amish school shooting.

[Critters2]

61. I must have missed that. Thank God! nt

[jazzjunkysue]

11. I still don't understand why the U.S. schooling mandates don't shut down these

cults. These kids (boys, too) are being deprived of their right to a public education.

Why isn't that enough, by itself, to get those kids out to school during the day, and interact with regular society?

Why are they ever allowed to be kept in secret?

I don't understand why.

Now, don't yell at me that school is beside the point. I get it. The rape is the point. But also, the isolation is unconstitutional, especially since many of these kids aren't even sure who their parents are.

If I lived in these states I'd organize local groups with lawyers to get in there with child protective officers regularly and find reasons to break it up.

[AnneD]

15. I work in public school ....

and I do catch an abuse case now and again and I don't support these folks but....

In Texas you can home school your kids and some folks do. It is legal. Of all the kids that I seen mainstreamed back into public school here-most are behind academically and have problems adjusting socially. I only met 1 parent (she had 5 kids) that did it right and she had a Masters in Education. In the frontier days-not every town could afford a teacher thus the laws on the books I am sure.

In Texas, and America I assume, one is free to practice your religion of choice. Thus this group had the right to set up a colony if they choose. There was protest when they first came in, but you are free to practice your religion-thus they remained. I am sure the law was watching them for some time, but until you have evidence-you can't do anything. You can have your suspicions-but until you have: 1)clear physical proof-these kids were home schooled so no School Nurse looked at them, 2)a child voices that they are in an dangerous or unsafe environment (consent in Texas is 17-it is 13 in New Mexico), social services and the law cannot interfere. Her call was the opportunity for the law to come in and shut it down. Everyone would have loved to shut it down sooner, but these creeps knew the law well and skirted around it. The leader's arrest and conviction plus the girl's call was solid evidence the authorities needed to move in and shut it down.

Some folks may think of Texas as a big fundie state but really I think folks here are more libertarian than anything else. That explains Ron Paul. Personal rights are a big deal.

[davidthegnome]

49. I have always felt that the federal mandates

are part of the problem, and not the solution. Don't misunderstand me - education is a great and noble thing, for those who desire it, for those who intentionally would seek it out.

As a high school drop out (now a GED educated high school drop out) I remember well, ten years ago, at thirteen, how very much I hated school. Not because I was a stupid child - and not because I had no ambition, for I did, at the time. It was because I had no choice. My hatred for school had nothing to do with religion, or any cult, or any such thing.

It had to do with my young ideals. I had been raised in a Nation that was rumored to provide "liberty and justice for all". While I am now old enough to understand that that was a myth... being the socially awkward boy that I was, school was a place of daily torment for me. As often at the hands of teachers as the students. Back then, people said I was shy, strange, solitary. In reality, I was not, at home or at play I was just as cheerful and normal as any other young child.

I ran away from home on any number of occasions, when the cops came to deliver me to school one day (I was 12 at the time), I sat with my arms wrapped around the arms of my chair and told them they would have to drag me, chair and all.

The mandated education had no value for me. I despised it as I despised those who forced it on me. To this day, I feel that public school is a hateful prison for children who are as I was.

In my (not so humble) opinion, these law-enforced mandates take something very precious from those children who are as afflicted as I was. Dignity - and their sense of freedom. If any of them believe they are free, then by the time they reach 18, they know better.

A forced education is not an education at all. You can force children to go to school - to do their homework if you are vigilant enough, but you cannot force them to think, or to care.

Now... that said, of course school is beside the point - but I feel that you err in thinking that federal mandates should provide the solution. My heart aches when I think of what has been done to these young girls - and I want justice for them as much as anyone else. Were there not laws regarding such things, I would be one of the first to gather a rope and eye the nearest (convenient) tree branch.

The US schooling mandates are both unconstitutional and unjust. We are *enforcing* the supposed *right* to an education. Is it our right to force crying, miserable children to every day go to a place where their fellow class mates hate them and their teachers mock them?

No, much as I hate what has happened here - I believe the solutions to these problems lie in freedom of thought, those often inspired by a "religious education" would vehemently disagree with me. Those, who, for example, have forced themselves upon young girls believing it to be their religiously granted right. Much as Kings and Priests are and were believed to be ordained by God, so do such people as the more religiously (particularly right-wing religiously) inclined believe of themselves.

Education is a great thing - but the right to an education, if we are serious about such a right, must also provide the right to graciously decline. I promise you, child, youth, adult, or elderly, all would value their education far more were it something sought of their own will. My Grandfather - perhaps one of the few men who understood this, one of the few men who could have truly given me the education I desired - was a teacher for 37 years, who often remarked... "Education isn't for everyone". I firmly believe he was right.

But I suppose I'm not just a heathen, but a radical too. I feel that these unjust mandates invite rebellion, depression, and anger in many children.... and worse things. If I had my way about it (though I don't, to be sure) we would not use the federal government as a means to force children into what we define as an appropriate education. It would be something that they might seek for themselves instead - of their own desires.

Well... now that I've ranted myself out, I'd just like to add - yes, these men should all be castrated for what they have done. Were there not laws regarding such things, I would gladly wield the knife myself. This is where federal force should and must be used - and the point I have been aiming for. As opposed to using our poor police officers to deliver miserable, screaming children to school. They may not know what's good for them - but that is for them to learn, is it not? An individual right, undeniable, to learn for ourselves what's good for us.

It is at times like this that my distate regarding religion comes out in full. For - if the extremely religious had their way, all of life would be one forced step after another.

[XemaSab]

12. I think it's like drugs

Making polygamy illegal encourages ALL KINDS of illegal shit that would hopefully be reduced if it were legal.

That being said, I am 100% in favor of breaking up this nest of rapists and pedophiles.

[keep_it_real]

13. People like this give a bad name to polygamist

There are a lot of consenting adults who practice polygamy in the privacy of their homes and no one gives a sh*t what they do.

Consenting adults should have the right to practice any kind of marriage arrangement they desire as long as it does not hurt anyone else, like a under age adult.

But those who in the name of polygamy use and abuse underage adults should go to jail.

[gorbal]

19. Thats true

I'm not into polygamy, but it really bothers me when people speak like "Polygamy" is the issue here, when the real issues are child rape, child abuse, wife abuse and mind control. (Oh and for the thousands of young boys thrown out: abandonement and neglect)

[Summer93]

17. It is not just the "sect"

Look at the catholic church and the hundreds of boys who were molested and raped by priests.

[LanternWaste]

20. I doubt it's confined...

And hundreds of young girls molested and raped by public school teachers every year. So I doubt it's confined to even the broadest scope of religion...

I think it's simply more a human/social failing (for lack of better terminology which is eluding me prior to my fourth cuppa Joe)) than it is an indictment against any one organization.

[DemoTex]

24. Affidavit: Report of child brides led to raid

Source: CNN.COM

Tipped that girls as young as 13 were being forced to enter "spiritual marriages," have sex and bear children, Texas officials raided an isolated polygamist retreat in West Texas, according to court documents released Tuesday.

The information came from a 16-year-old girl who called a family violence hot line March 29, "expressing the need to leave her current living situation," according to the affidavit.

The teen bride said she was in an abusive "spiritual" marriage to an older sect member, the documents stated. She reported that she was the man's seventh wife and had been beaten and choked.

She said she had been hospitalized in the past with cracked ribs and hoped to escape the abuse by faking a medical condition.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/08/texas.ranch/index.html

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/08/texas.ranch/index.html

---

Did Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith not register? He wrote of this .. and Jeffs. And that was a number of years ago. WTF does it take to protect the vulnerable from these sexual, sectual, cultist predators?

[JeanGrey]

25. Those poor girls and babies - actually babies having

babies forced by old men. Thank god they are getting that mess broken up. I think the article said 130 some women left as well......I just hope to god they can get the counseling they need for the abuse they have suffered and every one of those men should go to prison for life!

[aquart]

26. They need to be tried and sentenced as the child molesters they are.

And then sent to prison. Yes, indeedy. I can't imagine a more fitting place for them.

[JeanGrey]

37. In the General Population would do very well.

[DemoTex]

27. Krakauer's book was published first in 2003. This was all described in that book.

Let me be blunt, as Jon Krakauer was in the book. These are old men fucking very young girls, and cloaking it in the raiments of their ultra-bizzarro cult. How young? Does 13-14 get your attention?

Now, with that in mind .. consider this: Krakauer was not writing about this branch of Jeff's cult, holed up in a Waco-like fortress. This was after Krakauer's time. This transcends Krakauer's research. This has the potential .. protected, secret cult enclave .. of child molestation the likes of which we have never seen.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING?

[JeanGrey]

38. Of course. I hope that other states will follow suit.

[saigon68]

41. You bet

948.02 - ANNOT. (1) First degree sexual assault (a) In this subsection, "sexual intercourse" means vulvar penetration as well as cunnilingus, fellatio, or anal intercourse between persons or any intrusion of any inanimate object into the genital or anal opening either by the defendant or upon the defendant's instruction. The emission of semen is not required.


948.02 - ANNOT.
(c) Whoever has sexual intercourse with a person who has not attained the age of 16 years by use or threat of force or violence is guilty of a Class B felony.

948.025
948.025 Engaging in repeated acts of sexual assault of the same child.

948.025(1)
(1) Whoever commits 3 or more violations under s. 948.02 (1) or (2) within a specified period of time involving the same child is guilty of:

948.025(1)(ag)
(ag) A Class A felony if at least 3 of the violations were violations of s. 948.02 (1) (a).


939.50(3)(a)
(a) For a Class A felony, life imprisonment.

939.50(3)(b)
(b) For a Class B felony, imprisonment not to exceed 60 years.


Yup I get what you mean

Good thing they aren't in my state.

They don't wink at shit like that here

[leftynyc]

42. Of course I understand

as do many others. The states of Utah and Arizona should be shamed into prosecuting these people - as I remember reading in the book, the local authorities are often part of or at least sympathetic to this group and therefore don't get involved. It should be on the cable news shows 24/7 until the women and children in these groups are protected.

[kestrel91316]

28. Somebody needs to fix ALL these children up with REAL GOOD

civil rights attorneys to sue the pants off the FLDS and take all their assets to break them up once and for all.

ACLU? Southern Poverty Law Center? John Edwards? I almost don't care. I want to see these bastards ruined. AND locked up for life.

[sasquatch]

29. You might want to deprogram them first

Because they will refuse to press charges or participate in any court proceedings.

[kestrel91316]

39. Children don't need to press charges. The state will do it on their behalf.

And a court-appointed guardian could probably file civil suit on their behalf.

Any pregnant girls under age 16 yrs 9 months are by definition rape victims.

[sasquatch]

40. Not unless they can prove that the father of the child is the same age

Do you agree with the deprogrammer idea though?

[kestrel91316]

45. I don't know enough about psychology and psychiatric treatment to say'

But it sounds like an idea.......

Probably most of them just need to be taught they have RIGHTS.

[blondie58]

30. this is just so sick and wrong

and what I don't understand is, I have not heard of any young men being at the compound, just the old geezers who have the child brides. Do they force the boys to leave when they get to a certain age? That would alleviate any "competition".

I certainly hope that these young women get over this experience and have happy, healthy normal lives.

[acmavm]

31. These young 'women' will never lead normal lives. They will

never look at things the same way as we do. The brainwashing is generational. The unfortunate creatures were taught from the cradle that polygamy and breeding the children of old men is their lot in life.

Some may end up finding themselves in a life that fulfills their need for love and understanding, if they are lucky. Some will be eternally messed up. But none will ever lead a 'normal' life (whatever that is).

[LibertyLover]

34. Yes, the boys are forced out at about puberty

In several other threads on this topic, DUers from the areas were these FLDS compounds are have reported that their Social Services are almost overwhelmed dealing with the boys who are thrown out of the compounds. They are literally dropped on a street in the nearest town with few if any possessions and no money and told to go away.

[juno jones]

35. Yes they do

These young boys are quite the social problem in some communities, I've heard.

[FedUpWithIt All]

36. Link to an article about the boys...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/07/lost.boys/index.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. Yes, they do

They kick most of the boys out of the compound when they reach puberty to fend for themselves. One of the DUers who lives near this compound told about it on another thread.

[zanne]

32. I thought polygamy was illegal.

Am I wrong or are the officials too afraid to go after a religious group?

[leftynyc]

44. Yes - illegal in all 50 states

The book Under the Banner of Heaven was all about this cult. From that account, I understand that the local authorities were part of or at least sympathetic to this group and that's why no prosecutions. I guess they made a mistake setting up camp in Texas where they evidently don't have the pull with the police that they do in AZ an UT.

[zanne]

46. The MSM isn't talking about that at all.

They're just concentrating on the abuse allegations.

If the GLBT community in this country was a religion, gay marriage would have been legal long ago. This government is afraid of religious groups. They pretty much get away with anything.

[leftynyc]

47. Looks like Texas was on the ball

with this case. Good for them. AZ and UT should be ashamed they have let this cult get away with this for so long.

[zanne]

48. But the polygamy isn't being prosecuted. nt

[leftynyc]

50. Have anyone said why not yet?

I'm guessing they're concentrating on the abuse side of this for now (as they should). These same stories were coming out of AZ and UT and nothing was ever done.

[zanne]

53. There isn't even any mention of illegality.

I'm wodering if it became legal for religious sects or something.

[leftynyc]

54. I don't think so

In fact I remember reading in Under the Banner of Heaven that that was the sticking point in UT becomming a state. They had to forego polygamy. I think we would have heard if it had been declared legal for religious purposes although that would create church/state issues and open up all kinds of worm cans for all kinds of issues.

Perhaps they are not mentioning it because the abuse is what got the original search warrant and so they are concentrating on that part of the problem. And only Texas is doing anything about that.

[Lance_Boyle]

55. they get around polygamy laws with 'spiritual' (not legal) marriage

The marriages are not state-sanctioned. The abuse is the issue here, anyway, not the multiple partners.

[kestrel91316]

60. They aren't LEGALLY married to the extra wives.

They are "spiritually" married to them. That's the loophole they use to get around laws against bigamy/polygamy.

There are no LEGAL records of these marriages, just church records.

[mopinko]

33. when? when religion is abolished or at least

when extreme religiosity is seen for the mental disorder that it is.
however, i do think that this kind of a "troop" is a part of our genetic history. culture has eroded it, but it exists still in a lot of countries. where it is in the open, it is harder for it to get to these levels. and when you don't have wars all the time to bump off those pesky spare young males, it is also harder.
war has served the naked ape in a LLLOOOOOOTTTT of ways. we are seeing the horrors of them all, i think, and evolving away. perhaps the true horror of our modern warfare, with it's ability to destroy the next generation, (DU, brain injured vets who are killing their families, etc) as well as obliterating the "spoils" will give us a kick in the evolutionary ass.

[eppur_se_muova]

43. K&R ... & accidentally duped in GD.

Oh well, needs more eyeballs.

[kestrel91316]

56. According to the various reports I have read and interviews I have seen

about FLDS (info from escapees), the girls and women are denied access to books/magazines and forbidden to laugh. I can handle the no TV/radio thing, but this other is HORRIBLE.

I'm not so sure their Book of Mormon is their playbook. I am thinking they refer to The Handmaid's Tale for inspiration..........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid's_Tale

When I first read it in 1986, I always felt safe that "it couldn't happen here". Little did I know it was ALREADY happening. FLDS is practicing REPRODUCTIVE SLAVERY.

[Ilsa]

57. At least the women in the Handmaid's Tale knew they were

being used. These women are afraid of the world into which they could escape.

[Shakespeare]

62. More info - including a fascinating nugget buried in passing in the latest story.

ELDORADO, Texas -- When authorities moved to search the large white temple on the polygamist compound in West Texas, about five dozen of the sect's men prayed and cried around the structure, state investigators said Thursday.

Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran also said he had been working with a confidential informant for four years who was feeding him information about life inside the polygamist sect.

Doran declined to say whether the informant was in Texas or other sect compounds in Utah or Arizona.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-compound11apr11,0,6674659.story

If they've had an informant for four years working with them, this case is going to be HUGE, and likely very sound for the prosecution.