Route shortened after thousands gather for S.F. torch run

[Book Lover]

Source: SFGate

Massive protests forced officials to drastically change the Beijing Olympic torch route today, with the flame leaving McCovey Cove by bus instead of being carried along San Francisco's Embarcadero by runners.

City officials cut the relay route short after a chaotic morning along the Embarcadero, where thousands of people descended to support and protest the torch run.

The torch was lit at McCovey Cove around 1:20 p.m. and the first runner - buffered by Chinese and American police - headed away from the crowd and into the Pier 48 building on the waterfront. About 20 minutes later, a convoy of vehicles, including vans and police on motorcycles, pulled out of the building and headed through downtown on Fifth Street, then up Ellis Street to Van Ness Avenue.

The convoy is now at Van Ness and Pine with torch runners possibly headed toward the Marina or through downtown and to the Ferry Building.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/09/MNDS102IIM.DTL&tsp=1

---

Also check out www.sfist.com for further info and links

[merwin]

1. Why exactly were the Chinese police involved?

That makes no sense.

[TomInTib]

2. They brought some serious people along.

Real bad-ass types, CQC kinda troops.

[Sonnenschein]

11. And you base your remark on what?

[TomInTib]

14. A news thread I saw here earlier.

The Chinese brought some serious muscle with them.

Found it, just so you'll know I didn't just fucking make it up.

Jesus Fucking Christ on a popsicle stick...

That wasn't a "remark", it was a statement of fact.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3131841

But, then again, it is from Canadian AP. So you will probably doubt their veracity, as well as mine.

[hack89]

15. Here you go

China’s blue-clad flame attendants, whose aggressive methods of safeguarding the Olympic torch have provoked international outcry, are paramilitary police from a force spun off from the country’s army.

The squad of 30 young men from the police academy that turns out the cream of the paramilitary security force has the job at home of ensuring riot control, domestic stability and the protection of diplomats.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3671368.ece

[Sonnenschein]

18. A bunch of lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[Occulus]

88. Tibet is right, China is wrong n/t

[Occulus]

85. Why exactly weren't the Chinese police present

beaten and imprisoned?

It's what THEY would do in THEIR country.

:sarcasm:

[ckramer]

3. Disturbing event like this shows the people in China that Americans

are either full of hatred towards them, or, seriously manipulated by certain anti-China influence as their government told them.

Young people in China would never understand why people in America would act and be mean like that. Yet it plays further into the hands of their governmental propaganda.

And high level people like Hillary Clinton and Pelosi played along thoughtlessly as if this is some kind of American idol competition fun event.

Moronic.

[depakid]

4. I guess they reckon the same thing about France...

[arcos]

6. And the UK... and Angela Merkel... and we could go on and on... nt

[hack89]

5. That's why we should never confront evil

it allows the evil doers to distort our motives.

[Sonnenschein]

13. Why is it evil to arrest thugs who burn other people's shops, who

cut other civilian's ear out? Do you like to sacrifice your ear for the Tibetian Talibans?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo

[hack89]

16. The Chinese government has killed millions of it own citizens

since they have taken power. They are the true evil here.

[Sonnenschein]

17. You are eqating the current government with the government of 30 years ago.

And even the government of 30 years ago did not kill millions of people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWGGjpJJCKE

[hack89]

21. Need to review your history

Cultural revolution, Great Leap Forward ring a bell? Tens of millions were killed or died due to government policies and incompetence.

[Sonnenschein]

22. People dying due to the incompetence is not the same as killing

people deliberately. Plus the current government is not the same as the old government. Thanks to Nixon China has changed so much. And you still have not answered my question. Why is it evil to arrest the tibetian thugs? Do you like to have your ear cut off?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=acHkXqik_Bo

[hack89]

83. This is the government that gave us Tiananmen Square

The government that hides the truth from their own people.

The government that produce that piece of lying propaganda.

[Occulus]

89. China is wrong. Tibet deserves to be its own nation. n/t

[annabanana]

8. You don't really think that the Chinese are SEEING any of this footage do you?

fugedaboudit

[Sonnenschein]

12. It's sad that Democrats are the dumb ones in this regard. Bush knows

more about China then Nancy and Hillary do.

[sudopod]

19. Fuck the government of China

Between being brainwashed by government media and being led by the powers-that-be into a nationalistic madness whenever anyone from outside challenges the government (lol, sound familiar?), the people of China are fucked coming and going.

The difference is that we have free speech in this country, pal...so far.

It may not be perfect. Everyone knows that those asshats in China's government are pointing at the Shrub's war for oil and saying "LOL, see, wur not so bad!!!11."

But here's the difference:

Here, we can picket the village idiot's ranch and tell him he's wrong.

Here, we can write to politicians, write petitions, talk to the news media, and generally raise hell about this administration's policies.

Here, we are going to make the ultimate expression of our disapproval and vote these sons of bitches out of office in about six months.

People in China, and ESPECIALLY Tibet, do not have that right. Thus, the protesters have no other choice but to shame the Chinese government in the only venue they currently give a damn about, that's right, this self-glorifying wank-fest of a torch relay. If people trying to shine light on a decades-long genocide have to rain on their little parade, so be it.

Guess who the majority of the country is going to sympathize with? It probably won't be with the guys who are using paramilitary thugs and baton-wielding riot cops to ensure that no one says something that might be considered embarrassing.


The 2008 Olympic Games, now with FACISM!

[Sonnenschein]

24. Burning, looting and killing are not freedom of speech.

Terrorists are arrested everyday. Do you like to have your ear cut off? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VqOYL5BRas

[sudopod]

25. O RLY?

Counterpoint: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[Sonnenschein]

27. Really

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VqOYL5BRas
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

30. NO WAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNtFD6eCo7I

[Sonnenschein]

31. Truth hurts,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

33. Kinda like police-wielded batons

and bullets to the head, amirite?

Seriously, you fucktards are a relic of the past. Your way of ruling over the masses only works when you can keep them ignorant and can control information flow. Those days are over.

The CCP is a corpse that doesn't even realize it's dead.

[Sonnenschein]

35. Which police? Napalese police!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

38. Protip:

Nepal is not Tibet.

Lurn 2 geography.

[Sonnenschein]

44. Exactly! So why are you confusing napalese police with Chinse police?

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

[Occulus]

90. Your link is an unreliable source n/t

[EFerrari]

80. Wrong. The protest was against the Chinese government, not

the people of China.

You'd have to be a moran to confuse the two. :hi:

[Occulus]

92. bullshit and nonsense n/t

[metrodorus]

7. Who are we to criticize the Chinese?

While I lament the plight of Tibetans, how can we, as U.S. citizens, have any
moral platform on which to stand when
1) we have far more people both in absolute and in relative terms incarcerated?
2) we have a government that asserts its right to hold people without trials and to torture?
3) we wage illegal wars against countries on the basis of lies, causing deaths in the hundreds of
thousands and creating millions of refugees?

I just don't see why we're making a big deal about China when we have all this stuff going on.

[madrchsod]

9. we are free to protest

and the chinese and tibetan people can not. "we the people" are protesting not our goverment

[Sonnenschein]

10. That's not true. They have demontrated for 3 days without police interference.

They have thrown rocks at the police without being hit back. These were thugs who could burn people's shops, cut people's ear out. It's time that the C. government does something to crack down these tibetan Talibans.
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

[sudopod]

20. LOL

You can't be serious.

They weren't shooting fairy dust and rainbows at those dead monks in Tibet yesterday, that's for damn sure.

[Sonnenschein]

23. And how do you know that? Were you there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VqOYL5BRas

[sudopod]

26. No

But people with camera phones and knowledge of the dark corners of the internet were.

I wasn't in Germany in 1945, but I know the Holocaust happened.

The fact that the government Tibet had decades ago wasn't all that great doesn't make Tibet's rape by the CCP A-Ok.

Enjoy your fail, Mr. Internet Commissar. :eyes:

[Sonnenschein]

28. Now show me a video where a peaceful tibetian monk

was killed by c. police. http://youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

32. LOL

Have you ever heard of Scientology? You should check it out. I think you'd fit right in.

[Sonnenschein]

34. Just show me the damn video! Does societology have that damn video?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

37. No one's impressed.

You're barking up the wrong tree. XD

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sudopod]

41. NO U

FREE SPEECH BITCH! (lol, whoops, now I'm in trouble. XD )

[Sonnenschein]

43. Free speach is not spreading lies. I hope you know that much.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

[sudopod]

45. This took all of 30 seconds to find with Google

http://www.protv.ro/filme/exclusive-footage-of-chinese-soldiers-shooting-at-tibetan-pilgrims.html?id_file=4265#4265

Enjoy your failure as the faceless masses LOL.

[Sonnenschein]

49. Don't you have brains? They are crossing from Napalese border into

India. So why is it the Chinese soldier who opened fire? Why are the Chinese soldiers in Napal? Do they show the people who opened fire? No, didn't they? How do you know they are the Chinese soldiers like they say. They have lied and lied. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

51. BAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

My huge police state is being oppressed!

Come witness the violence inherent in the system.

[Sonnenschein]

56. One more time. It's the tibetan Talibans who burned, looted

and killed people. These terrorists would have been arrested long time ago, if they were in US. http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1206658887.html

[sudopod]

60. OH NO

NOT TERRORISTS! *shriek*

[Occulus]

86. You're from China, are you not? n/t

[EFerrari]

81. Because we protest their repressive government just as we protest our own. nt

[Critters2]

97. I'm quite flexible. I can be opposed to the behavior of two governments at once.

At the very least.

[Jack_DeLeon]

29. Fuck China...

they shouldnt not have be allowed to have the olympics they dont deserve it.

I dont think we should punish our athletes from competiting there if they choose to, but I dont think our government should attend or be involved.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sudopod]

39. LOLerskates

[Sonnenschein]

42. Read before you opine. Otherwise you bring shame to all

people called Democrats. http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

[sudopod]

46. LOL

http://www.protv.ro/filme/exclusive-footage-of-chinese-soldiers-shooting-at-tibetan-pilgrims.html?id_file=4265#4265

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

93. 'Shame' and 'face' are BIG in chinese (sic) culture.

Here's to hoping you personally experience both shame AND loss of face.

By the way- FUCK your nation's "honor". I would SPIT upon your leaders, were it given to me to do so.

[sudopod]

94. OMG don't say things like that!

They could get angry and not buy our cars or something!

(They were saying this on CNN during the protest. *Facepalm* )

[Jack_DeLeon]

47. I wonder how many of the PRC apologists online...

are actually working for the PRC.

They do a great job of stopping dissent at home, now they are making thier rounds online trying to stop it online.

[sudopod]

48. Thankfully, these sorts just never seem to grok the internet.

They think they can bull in and shout everyone down like they do at home.

Well, that, or failed attempts at subtlety like the above.

[Sonnenschein]

50. It's you who has been shouting. Read big liberals like

Michael Parenti, Noam Chomsky before you make silly remarks.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1206658887.html

[sudopod]

52. Argument from authority in MY DU?

It's moar likely than you think!

[Sonnenschein]

54. Who is the authority in DU?

[sudopod]

58. Holden Magroin

He's been running this place since 1984 back when the internet was powered with dial-in BBSes and Ronald Reagan's hot air.

Send him a PM if you think you're being done wrong. XD

[Sonnenschein]

62. What do you mean I have been doing wrong?

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

[sudopod]

64. PM Holden Magroin

if you think I'm being unfair. That man's got balls. I trust his judgment.

[Sonnenschein]

66. I am not saying you are unfair. I just think you like a lot of other peoople don't know anything

about China and are being misled by the lies of the media. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

67. LOL

That big global anti-Chinese conspiracy?

PM Holden, he'll set it all straight. That man is hardon bullshit, I tell you.

[Sonnenschein]

70. Does he know anything about China?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

[sudopod]

72. Oh yeah,

He's NUTS about China.

[Sonnenschein]

74. What is his email address? Why don't you email him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

[sudopod]

75. Holden Magroin is a busy man.

Anyone who's anyone knows how to use the private messaging system to get a hold of him.

The Alert button works too. Just be sure to address it to Holden in the first line, so you know he'll get it.

[Critters2]

98. LOL!!! nt

[Joanne98]

108. Holden Magroin has 207 friends on his myspace page.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3082311

[Dr. Strange]

110. Holden Magroin is a prick.

I PM'd him a month ago (not about China), and...well, long story short, he's prick.

[Sonnenschein]

53. If cutting people's ear off is called dissenting. Then it's time to stop it.

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1206658887.html

[sudopod]

55. LOL

Brace for B&

[Sonnenschein]

57. It's not funny if your ear got cut off.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

[sudopod]

61. So because the old management were a lot of assholes

Whatever the PRC does is Ok?

Bullshit.

[Sonnenschein]

63. And what did C government do? Arresting tibetian terrorist who

burned, looted and killed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

65. You'd be funny

if you weren't such a serious little asshat.

Is that what you really believe or what you were told to believe? XD

Seriously, though, how can you argue with this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

[Sonnenschein]

68. I don't have to be told. There are a lot videos made by

Western tourists. You just have to have an open mind and watch, read. What is your rock video about? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

[sudopod]

69. If you don't recognize it

You're probably not from around here. XD

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Sonnenschein]

71. What does that have anything to do with Tibet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

[sudopod]

73. Watch it again.

You'll get it. TRUST ME.

[sudopod]

76. kick

lol

[Sonnenschein]

78. Kick what, silly? does it bump the thread up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZLzKBvvGMg

[Elidor]

104. Oh, better look again!

And be sure to read the name of the image, in case you're too dense to get it: "Chinese soldiers posing riot monks."

[lanlady]

109. "Tibetan terrorist"

Whoa, that's a phrase that you don't see every day. Never imagined those Tibetan monks in league with Al Qaeda...

[Throd]

100. No, fuck the Chinese government.

[sudopod]

77. kick

lol

[EFerrari]

79. Easily half a million PEACEFUL people in the streets, folks.

All day on our local news, the protesters have been accused of violence or of intending violence and nothing of the sort happened.

I'm so grateful to this town right now.

:loveya:

[Sonnenschein]

82. So much the objectivity of the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo

[Occulus]

87. Tibet deserves to be its own nation

discuss

[sudopod]

91. I agree with this notion good sir.

Yea, I say!

[sudopod]

84. I know, isn't it awesome? ^_^ nt

[sudopod]

95. Necrokick

because it's always fun to kick a troll while he's down.

[Critters2]

96. Wow. Does anyone else find it kind of creepy that this guy was so clearly

posting Chinese govt propaganda? Makes me wonder if they're just cruisin' the internets, lookin' for opposition. Just creepy.

[Book Lover]

99. I sure am

I was offline pretty much after I posted this until now - this took on an awful life of its own, eh?

[sudopod]

102. LOL

Looks like our lolcow got TS'd.

[Throd]

103. Holden Magroin is a fascist tool! He was exposed is an essay by Hugh Mongouscoq.

You really need to read it.

[Robb]

101. There's been a lot of online "astroturfing" lately

Feedback sections of online SF papers have been full of 'em.

Pure shills. I'd be embarrassed for them if they weren't such tools.

[ckramer]

105. Democrats will have to start to learn giving chinese people respect

This Pelosi led, Hillary joined, odious Sinophobic hate campaign against China will take democrative party to nowhere. I repeat - no where. These Dalai Lama sucking activities are absolutely moronic, political suicidal.

Obama is very presidential in this regard so far.

Chinese people at this stage are very patriotic and proud. They see this as a huge insult from America.

Giving chinese people respect is giving Olympic games held in China a respect.

I would say this to democrats - stop the stupid protests, because nothing good will come out of this.

Democrats should not fooled by Pelosi and Hillary.

[EFerrari]

106. Are you on drugs? This protest was against the violent repressive

government of China, not against the Chinese people -- who also suffer under the violent, repressive government of China.

[ckramer]

114. No, you are on drug

"Chinese people suffer under the violent, repressive government of China?"

LMAO

Now I think you really on drug for saying ignorant stuffs like this.

It's the opposite that's more closer to the truth.

Chinese people has experienced the greater economic freedom like they never have before under the "get rich is glorious" slogan. Quality of life have been increased manifolds in last 15 - 20 years for the ordinary people. Million after millions of middle class emerged. The whole country is in a mad spurt of economic growth. Economically China is moving forward by leaps and bounds, quickly establishing itself as a major world player. It has accomplished things that took the West hundred of years before. Politically they have been gradually losing the totalitarian controls, and granting more political freedom to its citizen. And the population just happen to have a high opinion of its government.

Olympics is their window to show off to the world their hard-working and earned accomplishments. Yet all they see now is Americans trying to rain on their parade.

Hardly a good feeling, is it?

In my opinion, in today's China, against it's government == against it's people.

[sudopod]

117. In my opinion, in today's China, against it's government == against it's people.

XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD

Ur silly.

If the Shrubster doesn't represent me, there's no way in HELL the Chinese government represents the Chinese people.

[EFerrari]

119. It's not only Americans that are protesting. It's people of conscience

all around the world as we have seen.

:hi:

[sudopod]

120. "Now I think you really on drug for saying ignorant stuffs like this."

Uh oh, he said "stuff."

[Critters2]

107. LOL!

"This Pelosi led, Hillary joined, odious Sinophobic hate campaign against China will take democrative party to nowhere"

Yeah, this could cost us the Chinese Communist/Fascist vote. Nothing good ever came of speaking up for human rights. No, wait...

[ckramer]

115. Look, America under Bush has not credibility to talk about human right in front of d world audience

Need I say more?

[sudopod]

118. Give it six months nerfherder.

President Obama or President Clinton is going to be all up in ur grill.

[Critters2]

121. Right, Comrade. The Chinese government, now THERE'S your paragon of democracy!

:eyes:

[sudopod]

116. HAHAHAHA

"I would say this to democrats - stop the stupid protests, because nothing good will come out of this."

_______________________________________________________________

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Being an OMG HUGH PATRIOT!!!!111one doesn't make torture and murder acceptable, in Iraq or in Tibet.

Also, I've heard the quote above from some pretty big morans in my time, and believe me, it doesn't help your cause.

Also, Dengs.

[ckramer]

111. The reason Pelosi hates China is not because they are good at communism

They are good at capitalism!

They are beating us to the pulp!

[Book Lover]

112. Are you planning on replying to posts #106 and 107?

I am very interested in what you have to say there.

[ckramer]

113. Will do