Bush: 'I Was Aware' of Harsh Tactics ("And I approved.")

[maddezmom]

Source: ABC

Bush: 'I Was Aware' of Harsh Tactics
President Says He Knew His Senior Advisors Approved Tough Interrogation Methods
By JAN CRAWFORD GREENBURG, HOWARD L. ROSENBERG and ARIANE de VOGUE
April 11, 2008

President Bush says he knew his top national security advisors discussed and approved specific details about how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency, according to an exclusive interview with ABC News Friday.

Well, we started to connect the dots, in order to protect the American people." Bush told ABC New s White House correspondent Martha Raddatz. "And, yes, I'm aware our national security team met on this issue. And I approved."

As first reported by ABC News on Wednesday, the most senior Bush administration officials repeatedly discussed and approved specific details of exactly how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency.

The high-level discussions about these "enhanced interrogation techniques" were so detailed, these sources said, some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed -- down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic.

These top advisers signed off on how the CIA would interrogate top al Qaeda suspects -- whether they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding, sources told ABC news.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/story?id=4635175&page=1

[Supersedeas]

1. harsh tactic vs. torture: why can't the Establishment Media call it what it is

[Lorien]

37. Because the Mainstream Media has become the All Spin Zone. n/t

[Hissyspit]

43. Collected TORTURE MEMO/BUSH APPROVAL Info (From Yoo Memo to Bush Signature - As of 4/11) here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3146718&mesg_id=3146718

[niyad]

2. it's TORTURE TORTURE TORTURE TORTURE

[Th1onein]

8. TORTURE. TORTURE. TORTURE. That's right.

Our president committed torture. He didn't just "approve" of it, or approve of the meetings where it was discussed and agreed upon. HE AGREED UPON IT. And he MADE IT HAPPEN.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS GUILTY OF TORTURE.

Period.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. TORTURE x1000 (Bush and his neocon pals are sadists)

maybe this is what they do

[amihol]

13. Put them into JAIL

[indepat]

21. Please refute if you can: they torture because they like it, they are above the law,

and they will do absolutely any thing they want because they know no one will stop them. When will our national experiment with/tolerance for madness end? :shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. and they have the audacity to blame China!

Bush and cheney are just as bad as the Chinese on torture and human rights.

[wordpix]

60. BushCo'snot blaming China loudly b/c China's our puppetmaster with all the $$ Bushco's borrowed

from them. Trillions. BushCo has mismanaged our nation so badly now we're debtors to China. Thanks, BushCo. :grr: :mad: :grr:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

83. yes

[JJLP1580]

44. Because they like it...or because they have to?

You honestly think that George Bush would enjoy torturing a human being?

You think that the administration and the CIA decided to employ waterboarding on al qaeda because they "like it"? What's the matter with you?

[sellitman]

46. Can you think of any other reason?

Leaders who don't like torture......don't torture.

Get it yet?

[Webster Green]

55. They have to?

You been watching too much "24".

They love to torture because they are some sick mutherfuckers! The chimp is a fucking psychopath.

Hope the chimp's hangin' is as fucked up as Sadaam's.

[Th1onein]

80. NO NO, he's RIGHT. THEY DO HAVE TO TORTURE

They MUST torture because they needed the intelligence to back up their false claims. You see, it is only through torture that they can get anyone to say anything that they want them to.

That's why they approved torture--because they wanted the intelligence to prove what they had been saying!

[Jackpine Radical]

56. "Have to," why?

Do you think information extracted by torture is likely to be accurate?
Did you ever hear about the time Bush made fun of Karla Faye Tucker? Tucker Carlson reported that during the 2000 presidential campaign when he questioned Bush about the case, the candidate did a mocking impression of Karla Faye begging for her life. "Please don't kill me," he pretended to plead with a smirk.

Bush, of course, was notorious for never commuting a death sentence*. He never even read the appeals.

*Well, almost never. The one that he commuted was a thoroughly depraved mass murderer.

[wordpix]

62. no one knows what lurks in the mind of chimpee but he approved the torture -said it himself

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3146718&mesg_id=3146718

[Solly Mack]

71. The question should be : What's the matter with them?

It's not a healthy mind that tortures another person.

[Gonnuts]

73. You have no knowledge if Edwin Brenays?

It is of the most primal of instincts that man's inner beast lays just beneath the surface and as history has proven this fragile veneer can be broken ever so easily.

Does bush like to torture - no, but he enjoys having the power to make it happen, he's a power junkie. Being able to cause pain and brag about it, knowing he can get away with it, admitting it and saying as much as cheney's "So?", is intoxicating to bush and his ilk. And if you're not aware of this you're either naive, stupid or an apologist for these cretins.

[indepat]

79. A lot of truth in this but: still contend they enjoy it, just as a few would enjoy blowing up frogs,

killing, maiming, tearing apart body parts for sheer joy and the psychotic rush that must follow, you name it. :D

[Jackpine Radical]

81. He maltreated animals as a child. Why shouldn't he get off on

torturing humans as an adult?

[indepat]

78. I'm just cynical enough to conclude that is the only reason when looking at the issue holistically:

who in the world would enjoy blowing up frogs? :shrug:

[debunkthelies]

72. TORTURE/ THE SPANISH INQUISITION 21ST CENTURY

These people are no different than the people back then, and they are laughing their asses off at the American people,daring us to do anything to stop them. Their contempt for all of us knows no bounds.:nuke:

[Richard D]

58. It fucking infuriates me . . .

to see this "harsh interrogation" bull-shit. It's all over the media. Fuck that. Like you said, it's torture. Nothing less is the truth.

[KansDem]

3. "...some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed."

Welcome to the Bushoi Ballet.

Got your tickets yet?

[wordpix]

63. "Yoo, a law prof at UCalBerkeley, uses footnotes to effectively dismiss the 4th & 5th Amendments..."

"Yoo, who is now a law professor at the University of California at Berkelealso uses footnotes to effectively dismiss the Fourth and Fifth amendments to the Constitution, arguing that protections against unreasonable search and seizure and guarantees of due process either do not apply or are irrelevant in a time of war. He frequently cites his previous legal opinions to bolster his case."

Citing your own expert opinion really sways the crowd, Yoo. :sarcasm: :crazy:

[Lars39]

4. And who in their right mind would admit to OKing torture

unless they knew they would never stand trial or had plans to get themselves out of The Hague?

IMPEACH

[grytpype]

5. Hence the crazy legal posturing over what is and is not torture.

They had to change the law to legalize what Bush & his cronies personally approved of.

Normally, the CIA would just do their thing and the higher-ups would be insulated from any knowledge.

But in this case the CIA made sure their ass was covered but good.

[JCMach1]

6. to THE HAGUE with him... Can we get the Democratic nominee

to properly promise to punish this bastard!?

[superkia]

45. Dennis Kucinich said he would but I dont remember hearing...

anyone else saying they would? Both sides of the aisle are in on all of this shit, the sooner we all wake up to it, the sooner we MAY get some justice.

[ReadTomPaine]

7. He has drawn a line in the sand and is daring the Democratic leadership to step over...

knowing full well they will not - as both the Senate and the House leadership and both remaining candidates have affirmed.

He's using the Dem agreement not to impeach as a cudgel against these torture investigations.. a shield to protect his inner circle. In essence, he's saying that if you want to take these people out, you need to investigate me now - something that is currently verboten.

It should be interesting to see how the party leadership responds.

[wordpix]

64. totally agree with you. "Come & get me, Barack, Hillary, Nancy, Harry, Joe B, Chris D.."

"You made your agreement, now try to stop me." BushCheney-BushCo is pure idiotic evil.

[bbgrunt]

82. I agree that he is taunting the dems with this, but

I have no illusions about how the party leadership responds---they will play deaf dumb and blind as usual.

[burrowowl]

86. You hit the nail on the head!

All of Congress should be up in arms and begin Impeachment Hearings IMMEDIATELY!

[Frisbee]

9. Am I the only one who suspects...

that Cheney got a woody at these talks?

[driver8]

19. A woody? I think Cheney had to excuse himself to go to the bathroom several times! n/t

[wordpix]

65. did you see the pic of him in the sunglasses with a naked woman reflected in them--link here

:rofl: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/04/11/2008-04-11_naked_woman_in_cheneys_sunglasses.html

:rofl: Looks like a nekked young woman to me and it's not Lynn. Let's see if we can get him to LIE about the young woman like he did to Clinton, and then we can have the Dick impeached.

[Auntie Bush]

87. He couldn't get a woodie if he wanted without a fist full of little blue pills.

[Frisbee]

11. Is it just me...

or does it sound like they went to some lengths to protect * (I've never heard that he attended any of these meetings), and the moran just threw that protection out the window with the "And I approved" comment?

[davekriss]

76. It doesn't matter...

...if I recall correctly, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 establishes immunity for anyone commiting torture going back to 1996, steps away from the Geneva Convention and leaves it to Bush alone to decide what is torture and what is not.

[madamesilverspurs]

12. Hey, Pelosi and Reid!

Can you now please stop kissing Bush's butt long enough to do something for the good of the country?!

[The Blue Flower]

14. Well, if they don't...

...there's a whole globe full of individuals and governmental entities out there who have been waiting for just such an admission of guilt to get the wheels of justice turning. Just because the cabal thinks they're the only game in town doesn't mean anyone else has to buy that. No one else has nullified the international treaties against torture.

[RainDog]

16. Americans have already filed charges of human rights abuses

against Rumsfeld when he was in Germany and France. Both times the cases were "remandered" back to the U.S. - in other words, the courts in those two countries were "giving" the U.S. Courts a chance to not be complicit. (Although I'm sure the real reason was that they didn't want to have an international mess...

Rumsfled snuck out of France before he could be taken into custody.

they remain open to charges.

To me, I do not understand why the U.S. courts are not also considered complicit, as well as the U.S. media for allowing the lies and the torture to go unremarked and uninvestigated here. Where does the blame stop?

The one good thing (if you want to call it that) about the Bush Administration is that they have opened so many eyes to the absolute depravity and corruption that lies at the heart of power in this nation. If any right wing fucktard wants to talk about blame america first, I'd like to ask them if they're happy with this administration making it open season on U.S. soldiers.

I just cannot express the depths of my disgust.

[Closeted Lefty]

15. Does anyone know

who introduced/originally approved of "water boarding?"
President Clinton did in the 90's!!!
Yup, that's right, Bill was the first one to OK it.
Oh ya, and don't forget that the CIA was originally granted permission to use
rendition in a presidential directive signed by President Bill Clinton in 1995.
I don't remember anyone criticizing these policies after terrorists tried to blow up the WTC,
it seems that they are only being criticized because Bush is using them during a war we all hate.

[crim son]

20. Hey Closeted Lefty, I'd like to see a link supporting

what you say about the Clenis approving waterboarding. From what I've heard, it's been around for hundreds of years - actually used in the inquisition! Help me out, please. I can't find anything.

I think what makes people more aware of torture during this war is the fact that our men and women are fighting abroad "for democracy" and whatever the U.S. does at this time has a significant impact on how our efforts are viewed worldwide, esp. the middle east. We aren't supposed to torture because we are "civilized" and are supposed to be distinguishing ourselves from the enemy. Of course, Iraqis aren't the enemy, which is all that much more unfortunate.

Anyhow... link, please?

[Closeted Lefty]

28. Here's the first link!

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/jason-aslinger/2007/12/09/pelosi-knew-about-waterboarding-2002-media-frenzy-follow
Not about Clinton though, forgot where I saw that one, but it fits the same theme: All the politicians KNEW about it. I will continue to track down the info about Bubba.

ALSO, My point wasn't that the Clinton's "invented" water boarding, I know that it was originally conceived hundreds of years,
the point was that it was under the Bill Clinton administration that it was introduced as an interrogation technique.
Why is it such a big deal for them now?

[Beetwasher]

33. Liar

produce a legit link to back up yr bullshit about Clinton and waterboarding or shut the fuck up.

[crim son]

51. See, Beetwasher, there's a better way to call him out.

He has no such link and has proven it in his response to me. Now he knows we know, and he cannot say we're a bunch of ignorant name-calling liberal buffoons. Oh. Yes he can.

[Jim Sagle]

59. Psstt...he can't. He's already gone.

;)

[crim son]

50. Again, I can't find anything about Bill introducing it as an interrogation

technique, so I'd love a link. As for everybody apparently knowing about the interrogation tactics as early as 2002, I don't dispute that at all and find it appalling but v. characteristic of the batch of idiots we have had representing us for the last eight - twelve years. I'm sure it's a big deal now because public opinion has turned against the shrub and his wars and it's "safe" to condemn his actions and the actions of the administration. Here at DU there has never been any acceptance of either the torture, or the Iraq war and its bogus justification. The problem is, mainstream media does not tell the whole story and most people appear to be too uninterested to look beyond what their Faux "News"person tells them.

What do you think is the reason that our enhanced interrogation methods have become suddenly important?

[darue]

24. if true I'd be more than happy to see him in the cell next to bush

clinton is no hero, he's most likely completely complicit bought and paid for by the right-wing powers in this country. all the BS attacks on him was just to make him seem sympathetic and give a reason for why he accomplished next to nothing.

[tavalon]

31. Closeted from whom, I wonder

Give a link or go home.

[lostnotforgotten]

17. Can We Impeach Now? What Additional Revelations Are Required?

eom

[driver8]

18. Why? Has someone given Shrub a BJ in the oval office?

If not..., then no can do!

[tavalon]

32. I'll give him the fucking blowjob

The thought of that makes my stomach curdle but if it needs to be done to get that bastard and his minions an impeachment, I'll do it for my country and my fellow citizens. Send me in.

[wordpix]

67. Blech, I don't think I could, yuck. Well maybe for Amurrica

[Harry Monroe]

74. Yea, take one for the team!!!

[wordpix]

66. gawd we could have impeached him long ago. What we need is a Congressional backbone!

[Canuckistanian]

22. A 'harsh tactic' is telling a child actor that their dog died.

What we're talking about is terrifying, extremely painful and sometimes fatal TORTURE.

[frogcycle]

23. just how "high" does the high crime have to be, anyway?

Now that he has confessed, they just don't have any wiggle room.

The US Congress is complicit in this torture every minute it goes without bringing articles of impeachment.

Bush himself said it when he said "you are either with us or against us." They either oppose criminal activity (both US law and international) or they condone it. And if they condone it, they are complicit.

Period.


No argument of political expediency, not having the votes, potential backlash, etc. matters. They have sworn an oath and they are violating it.

[liberal N proud]

26. And Impeachment is still off the table?

MY GOD! What has happened to our country, they are so bold as to admit to war crimes yet they do not fear retribution.

[Supersedeas]

88. don't expect the Media to do it or even cover it until Dems dare raise it as an issue

[Divine Discontent]

27. Error: You've already recommended that thread

they need to be taken before a war crimes tribunal (if my terminology is correct).

they admit outright torture - and sugar coating it as "harsh tactics" is so laughable and embarrassing for b*shy that I mock him!

[guyanakoolaid]

29. Meanwhile Pelosi yawns and says "nothing to see here, move along"

[Alexander]

30. So can we send him to the Hague now?

Apparently not.

[varelse]

34. I'm curious as to why it is that so much of the "civilized" world

still apparently receives our President and other American officials with courtesy and respect (if not with much warmth or enthusiasm), while China's government can't seem to run the Olympic torch ceremony anywhere without facing loud and active protests. What have I missed? Will this change now that he's pretty much confessed to authorizing torture?

[pinto]

35. One sad kick for this story. Damn it all.

:kick:

[santamargarita]

36. So, he admits he's a War Criminal

K&R

[defendandprotect]

38. Of course, it's our fault because Bush was "protecting the American people" . . . !!!

And notice the Powell cop-out . . .

Evidently, they all never heard of the Geneva Accord or other treaties the US has signed which
prevent torture . ..

Seemingly, they consulted the Yoo/Ashcroft Accords --- !!! ???

But --- again --- it's our fault because we needed protection after they dropped 9/11 on us!!!

[Closeted Lefty]

39. USA/China comparison? really?

Alright, coming from an ignorant childhood and turning away from my old views, I guess I still have pretty far to go til I find the left,
but is the general (democrat) consensus that the current US government is just the western version of the Chinese Communist government?

[lilgrasskikka]

40. do you know the difference...

between the a brown noser and a shit head?


Depth perception.

Nancy Pelosi = shit head. Harold Reid = shit head. Every Democratic leader with exception of Denis Kucinich = shit head.

My conscience is offended by the neurotic cowardice of the Democratic Party. I AM APPALLED... appalled that this president can lie with immunity, can be this incompetent, can put troops in harm's way for dishonest reasons... can conspire to break the law.... AND NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING IS DONE. They sit on their fucking hands and puke out platitudes, while their entire ethos crumbles around them. Grab a FUCKING clue, Nancy! Grow some BALLS, Harry!


IMPEACH THESE BASTARDS!!!!

Or resign.

[The Wielding Truth]

41. Who can file charges against them for war crimes?

Any lawyers out there have some answers?

[calimary]

42. And we still can't IMPEACH????

Still can't? Still got nothing on him? Hell, he's frickin' ADMITTING IT!!!

America has truly gone over the edge.

[Bozita]

47. Hey Nancy, isn't it time to let John Conyers do his job?

[man4allcats]

48. Fine. Then maybe Bush will be

indicted for war crimes along with the rest of them.

[clixtox]

49. I thought that folks were just joking...

When they said that a village in Texas had lost their idiot!

Shrub's hubris is amazing and stupid beyond belief.

He revels in the knowledge that he is the worst POTUS ever.

Nancy Pelosi, and every congressperson, is now under additional pressure to initiate impeachment hearings or forever be complicit in the ongoing war crimes perpetrated against the Iraqi people during our illegal, unconscionable occupation.

Might has never been right and it is never the wrong time to do the right thing!
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On a lighter note... Please consider getting involved on the DU folding@home team. Our team is #48,157. This project is run by some scientists at Stanford U. and could lead to new medical answers and strategies to fight deadly diseases. <http://folding.stanford.edu/English/Download>

[Ian David]

52. Now that he has ADMITTED to War Crimes.... NOW can we impeach the war criminal?

And who do I have to blow at The Hague to put my name on a list of volunteers to carry out his sentence?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

53. Thanks for the confession, Col. Jessup...

As it turns out, we really CAN handle the truth.

[mhoran]

54. Torture = War Crimes

Will the international community have the guts to pursue this?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. Guilty.

[paparush]

61. Look for MAJOR DISTRACTION coming soon..lets say..IRAN (or Jessica Alba's baby to be)

I'm betting on Iran to wipe this off the front page...president admits to approving Torture..no film at 11.

[Solly Mack]

68. We knew that, of course. He uses the language of lies (as usual)

"harsh tactics" and "enhanced interrogation techniques"

A lot of folks counting on that language of lies to protect them.

Those folks are a waste of oxygen.

[ckramer]

69. I bet Bush knew there were no WMDs in Iraq before his "shock ans awe" bombing too

He knows everything down to minor details.

[Gonnuts]

70. S0, those few "bad apples"

was these ass-holes at the top, is that what he's telling us ... good - arrest him!

[jimlup]

75. The mainstream will mostly ignore this as usual...

It is too much for them to handle. They won't do the job. The congress needs to grow a SPINE and do what should have been done soon after 9/11 ... IMPEACH and REMOVE these idiots.

[0rganism]

77. Well, that's it then, an admission of torte

I think that settles once and for all any question of his complicity in the matter.

Now all that remains is a determination of liability and enforcement of accountability. IMHO, we need go no further in punishing Bush and his cronies than we did with Saddam's bunch, that ought to suffice. The trial should be mercifully brief by comparison. Overall, a win-win situation.

[Senator]

84. And Failure To Impeach "Approves" Bushcheney

Because torture and war crimes can be aided and abetted both before and AFTER the fact.

Certainly the bushcheney war criminals have earned themselves a place in infamy via moral treason against our once-great nation.

But the oxymoronic mumblings of DC Dems, as they continue to ignore the rotting elephant carcass in our national living room, are no less an enabling of the ongoing horror. And moreover, a willful abrogation of both our treaty obligations and US Constitutional demands.

Only impeachment holds out any hope to reunite the American People around our core principles.

--

[bobthedrummer]

85. "In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom: CIA 'no touch' torture" (active thread started 1-24-08)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x333974

[DemKing]

89. Clearly Bush is mentally ill

This guy really has something really wrong with him. I thought I'd never see a guy this stupid ever fool enough people to become President.

I don't know if he is a straight drunk - back and the sauce??? Just a hidden coke head? But I think most of it is a guy that NEVER worked for a living and his parents never pushed him to do anything and in turn he got a ego.

Nothing is worse then a stupid guy with a ego driven with power.

Creepy Sad guy! I totally feel sorry for his wife, she couldn't have thought this guy was going to be like this! Hey we are in the same boat. I wouldn't put past her to be afraid to give any opinion, he looks like the type that would drive their relationship with fear, fear of threatening to hit her.

Maybe not physically, but I bet with the tone of his voice.. he scares her.

Pretty sad pathetic guy. He appears to be so stupid he doesn't even realize how much he ruined this world, forget just this country but the entire world!

[opihimoimoi]

90. The Ends DOES NOT JUSTIFY the MEANS....ya would think some one told him that///prolly confused him