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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:32 AM
Original message
Assad says facility Israel bombed not nuclear-paper
Source: Reuters

DUBAI, April 27 (Reuters) - The Syrian site Israel bombed in September was not part of a nuclear weapons programme, but was a military facility under construction, President Bashar al-Assad said in remarks published on Sunday.

Last week, Washington released intelligence alleging Syria had built a nuclear reactor with North Korean help before an Israeli air strike destroyed the facility on Sept. 6.

"Is it logical? A nuclear site did not have protection with surface to air defences? A nuclear site within the footprint of satellites in the middle of Syria in an open area in the desert?" Assad asked Qatar's al-Watan newspaper in an interview conducted before the U.S. accusations were made.

At that stage, he was commenting on media reports that said the target was a nuclear site. "The truth is that the raid was at a military site under construction," Assad said in the interview. "We are against mass destruction weapons for Israel, Iran or others."

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L2714801.htm
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Jesus, if someone bombed an Israeli or American facility, wonder if the words
terrorist and terrorism would be bandied about? :shrug:
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Israel does what she likes. sorry fact of the matter.
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. The US and Israel : how do they just bomb any nation they feel like
and get away with it? I have always wondered about this. If another country bombed a facility in Israel we would be engaged in yet another ME unwinable war.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Must've been a milk factory, haw haw haw.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. This might explain the lack of air defenses
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 09:34 AM by hack89
September 28, 2007:
Information coming out of Iran indicates that the military there is very dismayed at how ineffective new Russian anti-aircraft systems were during the Israeli September 6th air strike on a Syrian weapons development facility near the Iraqi border. Syria and Iran have both bought billions of dollars worth of the latest Russian anti-aircraft missile systems. Apparently the Israelis were able to blind these systems electronically. Syria isn't saying anything, nor are the Israelis, but Iranian officers are complaining openly that they have been had by the Russians. The Iranians bought Russian equipment based on assurances that the gear would detect and shoot down Israeli warplanes.



http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20070928.aspx
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yep..Trillions have been spent
to be sure weapon systems we sell defeat soviet and then Russian systems.

We learned in Vietnam the value of effective anti aircraft systems.

Wonder how Iran's reactors will hold up? Hopefully they will avoid low power testing.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Syria should thank the Israelis
Israel spent a lot money destroying a "worthless, incomplete military structure of unknown purpose" and now Syria knows they were screwed out of billions by the Ruskies. Maybe they can take their complaint to the "Better Business Bureau" office at the UN.

:rofl:
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Ha ha ha
It's so funny when countries just bomb other countries whenever they feel like without cause or warning and then sell lies about the reason to the Americans with the design of causing a major war that will kill tens of thousands of people at the very least.

To-tal-ly hilarious. Yay!
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. You have little appreciation for the reality of violent conflict.
That's a nice way to say it. When a state (or a person) believes they are under deadly threat they will very likely act to eliminate that threat if they can. If Syria didn't want the place bombed they could have gone to Israel and shown them their plans and purpose for the facility - assuming it was an innocent purpose. They could have invited IAEA to come in and inspect it. Instead they kept it secret and acted in ways that gave Israel every reason to believe that it constituted the possibility of a serious threat.

Israel eliminated the threat. If you're going to swear to kill someone and act like you're getting ready to do it - don't bitch and moan if they beat you to the punch.
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YankmeCrankme Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. How does your head not explode with logic like this?
First, just because someone BELIEVES they are under deadly threat from someone or something does not mean they are. By extension, if I believe you present a deadly threat to me does that mean I can pre-emptively kill you?

Second, why does Syria have to clear every planned construction project through Israel? Does Israel own the world now?

Thirdly, why should they have to invite the IAEA in to inspect every construction project to prove its not a nuclear building? Does Israel invite the IAEA to come in and inspect their nuclear sites? NO! They don't allow any regulatory agency to inspect their secret projects or nuclear facilities.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. People who argue like that are total strangers to logic ...
... hence no conflict arises.

It was all written down by unbiased sources in someone's holy scroll. :eyes:

FWIW, your arguments are valid: it is the opposition that isn't sharing
the world of reality.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. This won't do much good but for the benefit of others . .
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 11:06 AM by msmcghee
YankmeCrankme: "First, just because someone BELIEVES they are under deadly threat from someone or something does not mean they are. By extension, if I believe you present a deadly threat to me does that mean I can pre-emptively kill you?"

You are confusing several constructs in these two sentences - what people are permitted to do according to rules we establish to make life easier and less violent - and what people actually do - following their desire to survive. When people violate the rules designed to reduce violence - then their enemies will do what they need to do in order to survive - and understandably, violence is often the result. This event is a good example of that.

The point is that if someone believes they under deadly threat - they will do something to remove or reduce that threat if they can. This has nothing to do with international rules. It is human nature. We are deigned by evolution to do that - as are all higher animals. Those of our ancestors who did not do that - or who did it poorly - generally did not survive as well to reproduce and their genes are generally not found in our nervous system today. It is the belief of the threat that controls behavior - not the reality. A belief is someone's interpretation of reality. Perhaps Mr. Spock would act differently but humans don't.

YankmeCrankme: "Second, why does Syria have to clear every planned construction project through Israel? Does Israel own the world now?"

Who said they had to do that? I said, if the facility had an innocent purpose then they would be smart to let Israel know somehow to prevent the possibility of an attack. They could have reduced the potential for Israel to see it as a threat. As I said, if you say you're going to kill someone and then act in threatening ways - don't whine if they hit you first.

YankmeCrankme: "Thirdly, why should they have to invite the IAEA in to inspect every construction project to prove its not a nuclear building? Does Israel invite the IAEA to come in and inspect their nuclear sites? NO! They don't allow any regulatory agency to inspect their secret projects or nuclear facilities."

Of course Syria doesn't "have to" do that - although the NPT specifies that any construction that could have any nuclear purpose must be described beforehand and open to IAEA oversight and inspections. As in the above response - I said it was just smart to do so - as in their own interest. Israel is not a signatory to the NPT and the IAEA has no jurisdiction over Israeli nuclear projects. Syria is. In addition, Israel has never attacked an Arab state except in defense and has never threated to do so. Israel has been attacked repeatedly by Arab states including Syria with the stated attempt to destroy the state of Israel. (This statement only applies to objective observers. You should probably ignore it. Please don't try to refute it. It's not worth my time to respond.)

Added on edit: I suspect the reason Syria did not take these steps is that they "believed" that the billions they spent or Russian anti-aircraft systems would prevent the IDF from getting a good look at the installation or successfully attacking it. Their belief turned out to be unfounded and they paid the price for that.

Syria signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1969. It took this step to obtain the political and technical benefits that come from signing the treaty. In the aftermath of its losses in the Six Day War, Syria felt that it needed broader support from the international community to guard against Israeli acts of aggression. Additionally, the government wanted to take advantage of technical assistance from the IAEA and its member states that is only available after a state signs the NPT.

In 1979, Syria established its Atomic Energy Commission (AECS) largely to manage IAEA assistance programs and to plan for the eventual development of a nuclear power program. In 1983, the IAEA assisted Syria in establishing an analytical laboratory that was equipped with systems for atomic spectrometry and various other experiments. Five Syrian scientists were trained in Hungary, the United States, Yugoslavia, and Austria as a part of the project. Also in 1983, Syrian and Soviet scientists carried out a joint study on the construction of a nuclear power reactor in Syria. This study was part of an IAEA cooperative assistance project to help Syria understand the requirements for developing and maintaining a nuclear program.

Although Syria has probably never attempted to indigenously build nuclear weapons, there have been rumors that it might be interested in obtaining such weapons to deter an Israeli nuclear weapons threat. In fact, in 1986, when questioned on his opinion of the Israeli nuclear arsenal, Syrian Chief of Staff General Hihmet Al-Siabi suggested that Syria would strive to achieve strategic equality with Israel including nuclear parity.<1>

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Syria/Nuclear/index.html


Hopefully this post will answer all the responses to my first post.

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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. "The point is that if someone *believes* they under deadly threat"
Yes, and when their beliefs fail to conform to reality it's a diagnosable clinical condition called paranoia for which the sufferers can legally be locked up and involuntarily medicated because of the mortal danger they pose to those around them.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. That could be the most skewed point of view I have seen here recently.
Why doesn't Syria invite the world in to view its pathetic attempt at nukes? Why doesn't Israel invite the world to invite its nuclear stockpile -- complete with delivery systems and live warheads -- the fourth largest stockpile in the world?

And, wait, you say that Israel is under a "deadly threat" and that someone has "sworn to kill" them? Who is occupying whom?

Can't wait for the responses.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Maybe they should complain to the Chamber of Commerce
No, wait, ah, forget it.
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. Yeah, hysterical. Especially since it was OUR money. (nt)
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. I wonder what eastern bloc generals were thinking
after the First Gulf War when US tanks blew up Russian tanks one after another far out of range of where the Russian tanks could even attempt to fight back. I wonder if there were lots of Oh S**t moments in planning rooms throughout eastern Europe.
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Assad is such a reliable source
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. more reliable than a neocon fantasy
.
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I can't see how you would choose between them
Both will lie for their own purposes. It seems absurd to me that anyone would give Assad more credence.
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Assad is making more sense
The U.S. released pictures and the facility bombed was completely above ground.

No one in the Middle East builds a nuclear facility above ground. Iran's is underground, Israel's is underground and Iraq's was underground. Not only to protect it from aggression, but from the elements.

No one builds a nuclear facility in the middle of no where with no supporting structures for the scientists and workers. The pictures showed no supporting structures.

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. Try hitting British or French (real) nuclear installations
and see what happens...
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
19. Expert Questions U.S. Claim over Syrian Reactor
A nuclear physicist close to the United Nations atomic watchdog cast doubt yesterday on the veracity of US intelligence which claimed that Syria had been building a secret atomic reactor.

“When you look at the (US intelligence services) pictures, they show only raw construction,” an expert close to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) told AFP on condition on anonymity. “It was just the shell of a site, and the walls did not look like the ones needed for a plutonium reactor.”

Walls of a plutonium reactor “need a lot of piping, there was nothing like that on the pictures,” he added.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3285934
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. North Koreans May Have Died in Israel Attack on Syria, NHK Says
snip
The 10 people, whose remains were cremated and returned to North Korea in October, had been helping with the construction of a nuclear reactor in Syria, Japan's public broadcaster said. Some North Koreans probably survived the air attack, NHK said

snip
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aErPTWRFZpJI

Wonder if the departed knew the Syrian technicians that were killed when a train exploded, and leveled a village in N Korea, near the Chinese border.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2004/ss_syria_05_18.html
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