Officials: 31 of 53 girls from sect ranch have been pregnant

[seriousstan]

Source: breitbart

SAN ANTONIO (AP) - Texas child welfare officials say more than half the teen girls swept into state custody from a polygamist sect's ranch have been pregnant.
Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar says 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 were living on the ranch in Eldorado. Of that group, 31 already have children or are pregnant.

State officials took custody of all 463 children at the Yearning For Zion Ranch more than three weeks ago after a raid prompted by calls to a domestic violence hotline.

Child welfare officials say there was a pattern of underage girls forced into "spiritual marriages" with much older men at the ranch.





Read more: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90B2K480&show_article=1

[JeanGrey]

1. What a surprise. When the DNA comes back and the rest of

the investigation we're all going to get an eye opener.

[sasquatch]

2. Jesus, all of these pedophiles are getting busted on MSNBC, don't they know all they have to do is

start their own damned religion.

[saigon68]

51. They are doing the texas 2 step

Mounting up

[Marrah_G]

3. Scary shit

They are just breeding more slaves.

[FreeState]

4. I wonder how many are under 16?

the legal age there is 16 - Im not sticking up for them - but I hate it when facts are used like this, only 1/2 of the ages range is illegal as of January when the law changed from 14 to 16 in Texas which makes the statistic pretty much a sensational statistic with no substance. But eh thats our media for you...

[Marrah_G]

5. The legal age is 17

actually, going to look up the laws now.

Here:

Texas

The age of consent in Texas is 17 {Texas Penal Code Section 21.11}. However , "...It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor...was not more than three years older than the victim and of the opposite sex...(and) did not use duress, force, or a threat against the victim at the time of the offence" and is not a registered sex offender {Section 21.11(b)}.

Section 21.12 further prohibits all sexual contact between an employee of a school (including educators)and a student enrolled at the primary or secondary school where said employee works. No age is specified by the statute (thus, even if the student has reached consent age of 17, it is still a violation), and violations are a second degree felony.

[FreeState]

6. Its 16 (link)

http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriagelicenses/p/texas.htm

"Under 18:
If you are between 16 and 17 years old, you may apply for a marriage license in Texas only if you have written parental consent on an official form in the presence of the "

[Marrah_G]

7. Consent for sex is 17- 16 if married

The thing is........none of these girls are legally married. They are "spiritual brides" and have numerous "sister-wives" who are sometimes even their mother or sisters. It's pretty common for a man to be tossed out, his wives reassigned and then step-daddy "spiritually" married his step daughter.

[FreeState]

10. That law was just enacted

look at this link from before the new law:

http://marriage.families.com/blog/marriage-laws-oklahoma-amp-texas.

The main problem I have with the new law is it was enacted only for going after the FLDS. Thats why they put that in it. I doubt it will be upheld by the courts which is unfortunate. I still firmly believe the only way to reduce the abuses in polygamist sects in the US is to legalize polygamy - it would be much easier to police if you remove the taboo and secrecy of it.

[Marrah_G]

13. I have no problem with polygamy

I do have issues with cults who enslave and oppress women and children.

I doubt just making polygamy would stop the abuses of this cult, but it sure would make life easier for consenting adults to live as they wish.

[FreeState]

16. I think that if it were legal it would be more visible

and thus reduce the amount of unchecked abuse that is happening. I could be wrong on that too - but Its worth a try IMO.

[janetle]

25. Even my priest in church on Sunday said this....

.....at least in terms of what our secular laws should be. If polygamy is between consenting adults who are going into it with free choice and freedom for whatever reason--religion or other--then who are we to judge and it should be legal. But if it involves abuse, oppression, mind control, and children impregnated at puberty then this is not ok.

As a mother of a 20 year old daughter, I am absolutely outraged at these numbers of pregnant or formerly pregnant girls. And the mothers of these girls? I wonder how many are uncomfortable with all of this but just are afraid or unable to buck the system. I need to read the book "Escape." I read "Under the Banner of Heaven" and what an eye opener it was.

[dbackjon]

28. So I assume your priest is 100% in favor of Gay Marriage?

[janetle]

59. Actually yea--we are Episcopalian

[janetle]

63. But I should clarify

a particular religious denomination may not want to validate gay marriage but the secular laws should support it.

[dbackjon]

68. Good to hear.

[darue]

69. well it DOES involve abuse, oppression, mind control, and children impregnated at puberty

it always will because of course they're going to 'teach their children' to automatically live that way - you grow up in an environment like that, you don't get a choice and you know no alternative.

[roguevalley]

24. this is pedophilia and meglomania. nothing about the law bothers

me. nothing.

[pnwmom]

34. That link is outdated. The law was changed in 2005.

[kestrel91316]

15. There's no marriage licenses here. They are "spiritual" marriages.

That's how the men avoid charges of bigamy and the girls avoid charges of welfare fraud.

They can't have it both ways. Either they are LEGALLY married or they are not. In this case, they are not. Statutory rape laws apply.

[pnwmom]

36. None of the 31 teens in "spiritual marriages" are legally married.

So the age of 17 applies.

[kestrel91316]

8. 16 is for marriage with parental consent. None of these girls

are legally married, so the age for consensual sex applies. 17.

[FreeState]

11. Thats a new law as of January this year

that was enacted so they could go after the FLDS. The problem is that most of these girls were pregnant or gave birth before January of this year.

[kestrel91316]

17. Well, I trust TX prosecutors to be able to read and understand their own laws.

[pnwmom]

41. The law was changed in 2005, not in January.

And, yes, what got their attention was the FLDS moving in. But no state should have a marriage age of 14, considering that they all have compulsory school attendance until 16. Earlier marriage ages are relics that should have been discarded long ago.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695274455,00.html

[ChairmanAgnostic]

22. watching the reactions of the moms reminds me

of some films I saw studying psych in college. Interviews of people released from german concentration camps and japanese POW camps. The mindlessness, the lack of life's spark, the brainwashed personalities - it was all on film, and dammit, not being Frist or Sanitorium and diagnosing at a distance, that sure seemed similar, if not identical to me.

Add to that the statutory rape of young ' uns, and wow.

[pnwmom]

46. The affect of the mothers is strong evidence, to me at least,

of the abusive effects of this cult.

What did it take to turn all these women into zombies? (And these women, no doubt were hand-picked for their ability to well-represent the community. Imagine what the rest of them must be like!)

[roguevalley]

23. since they don't have a choice I don't care if they are twenty. for this

group, given the extensive grooming that is going on, there is no age of consent.

[janetle]

26. Good point!

[JerseygirlCT]

43. Excellent point! nt

[pnwmom]

30. No, the age of consent in Texas is 17, not 16.

The marriage age of 16 does not apply here because none of the teens' "spiritual marriages" are legal marriages.

And the relevant Texas laws were changed in 2005, not in January.

http://www.childbrides.org/texas_WFAA_arrest_warrant_issued_for_Warren.html

[girl gone mad]

33. It's pretty sensational..

regardless of the legal age of consent.

The majority of people in this country view teen pregnancy as an undesirable phenomena. Any other community would be embarrassed about a 60%+ teen pregnancy rate.

[bettyellen]

50. it's hilarious you think any of them are legally married- the husbands have a dozen other wives

wake the fuck up. they marry them off and unmarry them at whim, trade women like playing cards.
the women aren;t getting anything except kncked up, and shut up.

[Hydra]

9. Dur!

"It's not about sex" they claim, here in Utah. They're right- it's about underage sex.

[FreeState]

12. I wouldn't call rape sex

and anyone having sex with a minor in America is rape pure and simple.

[Marrah_G]

14. ~applause~

[Hydra]

19. That's also a "Dur"

Being that this is DU, I didn't think I needed to point out that underage sex is never consensual.

[pnwmom]

42. More precisely, it's about ritual rape and ritual sex abuse.

[micraphone]

18. "Yearning" for "Zion"....?

These creeps yearn for one thing only. And it ain't Zion.

[Mountainman]

20. I don't call this religion. I call it men using females as sex slaves.

This really chaps my hide! Using religion as a cover for sexual perversion! Think of the kind of life these women have without any choice as to how they are going to live their lives! Just sex slaves to a bunch of self centered men!


Normally you have a daughter and you raise her to hopefully have a happy life with choices she has made for herself. In this "religion" you raise a daughter to have sex with some other guy and you get his daughter for sex.

[saigon68]

55. A bunch of dirty perverts jumping 13 year old girls

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. That leaves 22 girls

who either have not had children or are not pregnant. Wonder how many of them are so because they rebelled and want out? I've read that this cult sometimes allows a girl to wait until the ripe old age of 16 to get married, especially if they are willful. I hope anyone who doesn't want to return to the ranch is allowed to stay out.

[LynneSin]

27. You know, I tried to give these folks the benefit of the doubt

That perhaps it was 1 or 2 badapples and not the whole sect.

Those kids should all be separated from their familes and placed into Foster Care.

Hell I'll take one in if it has to be done

[WolverineDG]

29. Ask CPS why they're calling a 27 year old woman a teenager

Many of these "teen mothers" are actually adult women who were stripped of their civil rights by the judge last week. CPS said, despite documentary evidence to the contrary, that they didn't "look" 18, so assigned them arbitrary ages. There are only 3 teenagers listed as "pregnant" on the CPS foster placement lists, including one who refused to take a pregnancy test.

This is not an excuse for the one (yes 1) 16 year old pregnant teen, but the State needed something in the news today to counter the bad press they've gotten. Notice they haven't said anything about locating the 2 missing 3 year olds, the child in the hospital for pneumonia, or the 2 year old rushed to the ER for dehydration because CPS didn't properly supervise her.

dg

[Marrah_G]

40. Proof of that?

[WolverineDG]

47. Court ordered last Monday

Call the District Clerk & ask for the transcript. Better yet, check out the Salt Lake Tribune & The Plural Life blog. That's free.

Initially, they only removed 18 teenagers, & 52 girls total from 6 months to 17 years. Where did the rest come from? Cloning?

http://www.sltrib.com//ci_8819787?IADID=Search-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com

dg

[bettyellen]

53. 52 girls or 53? Fer fucks sake this cult doesn't care about one woman more or less

that should seem obvious... it's sweet that you do, but i think your caring is misplaced.

[WolverineDG]

58. CPS doesn't seem to give a shit either

Those numbers are from news reports of CPS' own statements to the media. Not even the documents they had admitted as exhibits on 4/17 support this new magic number.

dg

[uppityperson]

60. Many give different names in the beginning, difficult to get a true count.

They could've put then through a cattle chute, one by one, to get an accurate number in the beginning, but it was chaotic and people gave different names and ages to different people, which added to the confusion.

[LanternWaste]

74. Then I may assume that you either

Then I may assume that you either know the precise and absolute number yourself or you also simply "don't give a shit..."?

Or is it possible (and I find this much more likely) that the false names and ages given to CPS by the FLDS members has confused the system...?

Edited spelling.

[WolverineDG]

75. No one gave false names

CPS was able to identify children when their ad litems showed up to speak with them. The same child was brought to the ad litem each time. Explain how that happened when everyone gave "false names."

As for numbers, the Salt Lake Tribune has a break down of children by ages obtained from CPS. CPS identified 27 girls aged 14-17, & there are 26 women whose ages CPS is disputing (despite them having birth certificates, drivers licenses & tax returns). See for yourself:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9091635

Ask CPS how they can make 27 into 53 or even 38. Even I'm not that bad at math.

dg

[LanternWaste]

76. Reports the FLDS members did give false names...

"Resistance was mostly passive; investigators reported that some of those interviewed gave false names or other misleading information about family relationships. Two men were arrested for attempting to destroy evidence or impede the investigation, but their actions were not called violent."

http://defsi.typepad.com/deafening_silence/

[LanternWaste]

77. members of the LDS church sit on the board or have shares in the Salt Lake Tribune?

How many members of the LDS church sit on the board or have shares in the Salt Lake Tribune?

[LanternWaste]

78. Since by this point you're merrely repeating yourself...

I'll take the same tack...

"Then I may assume that you either know the precise and absolute number yourself or you also simply "don't give a shit..."?

[WolverineDG]

79. I'm only repeating myself

because you refuse to admit that CPS is giving out misleading information (at best). I've provided enough references & links as seems to always be required. If you refuse to believe them because what they show doesn't mesh with what you've chosen to believe, that's not my problem.

dg

[LanternWaste]

83. You haven't really given out any evidence that CPS is being misleading.

You haven't really given out any evidence that CPS is being misleading. I don't think you understand what that words means...

(Nice use of a pre-determined if-then statement for some serious self-validation on your part...)

[bettyellen]

81. that group has a policy of defrauding the govt- calling it bleeding the beast...

that they are disputing that half these girls are underage isn't really too suprising to me.
women are pawns whose lives are uprooted at whim, would i be suprised if they weren't switching around birth certificates and names in order to fuck with the govt. they created this mess, it's on them there are no caring daddies claiming them, it's on them there shit isn;t together enough to prove they have safe homes for the little kids. i hope they bust up this group for ever. worship my ass. it's slavery, those poor gals are brainwashed and have no options. hopefully the little girls can have better lives.

[pnwmom]

44. I don't have any reason to believe the claims of the FLDSers at the ranch.

If that's where you're getting this garbage from.

There may well be only 3 teens currently pregnant, but many more are already mothers. You're conveniently forgetting about them.

It is also a fact that many parents were withholding their names and their children's names, so a number of children had no first and/or last names listed in the files. That would certainly make it more difficult for a parent to obtain information about his or her child.

[uppityperson]

80. Try this article. Almost 60% underage girls living on ranch pg or have kids.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

On Monday, CPS announced that almost 60 percent of the underage girls living on the Eldorado ranch either have children or are pregnant.

Of the 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 who are in state custody, 31 either have given birth or are expecting, Azar said.

Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but none of these girls is believed to have a legal marriage under state law.

[acmavm]

31. Did anyone see the whitewash on Dateline this weekend? They made it

sound like the officials State of Texas were a bunch of family busting pervs with dirty minds.

[LanternWaste]

71. This, I think will be their tactic

This, I think will be their (lawyers for FLDS) tactic in the upcoming PR battles that ensue. However, I'm not so sure that it will be as successful as they think it may.

The reddest of the red inhabitants of TX put the current state administration in-- they'd have to admit their own (albeit indirect) culpability in the matter.

Also (and more important) as Republican and as conservative as many of my fellow Texans may be, when it comes to child rape and incest... well, those two are still considered quite taboo-- families denounce family members for things like that.

Which is to say that TX isn't the greatest target demographic for the FLDS to defend themselves in the court of public opinion. The relevant state agencies need only to drop the words "rape", "daughters" and "underage" around a few times and the FDLS grave will probably get dug of its own volition, regarldess of the PR spin the FLDS tries.

I could be wrong, but all other things being equal, I think this is how it will play out on the TV sets in TX.


Edited spelling

[lovuian]

32. This is the same formula of women slavery over and over again

Women as children are told to be good wives and good obedient servants to God which means obeying the Father and husband
Its the Patriarchal system
Women only exist as breeders and servants
the Men have the money and power and use God as their trump card

the reason children but it even includes woman is the complete control that the men had.
Children are defenseless and have less rights than animals
Using Religion as a protection for having sex with children is been around a long time
I can see the Men turning to the Bible and Genesis and reading the sins of Women
and that look Jacob had many wives and given to him as early as 12 years

thats why the children are dressed in Old on the Prairie outfits
We are special we conform to the Old Ways the Pure ways
see the mind twisitng

Did anybody read A thousand Splendid suns?
The Muslims Fundamentalist do the same thing... sell the child to another at age 13 and for the rest of their lives they that husband's wive ...he can beat you and you wear a burka ...You Serve that is your purpose and Breed
The Man makes the decision here and if the woman rebels well stoning or death is the punishment to remind all others to keep in line


I'm glad these children have been taken by the state. This has nothing to do with Religious freedom
It has a to do with Child rights...if the child is endangered then the state has the right

[populistdriven]

35. they knew about this shit TWO years ago

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=SAEC&p_theme=saec&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=11184DAD622D7748&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

[Marrah_G]

39. They have known about this for decades.

[onehandle]

37. Par-tay! Sign me up!

What I really mean to say is why is this on top of the front page.

Crazy religious sects are... crazy. File this under, duh.

[Marrah_G]

38. Because progressives care about women and childrens right to be free

We stopped being Chattel a long time ago.

[pnwmom]

45. Are you aware that there may be 100,000 members of this little sect

across the country?

Are you saying that we should all be turning a blind eye while these communities have free rein to ignore state and federal laws that apply to everyone else?

[onehandle]

54. No, it's odd that this was pinned to the front page.

Although I feel for the victims, it's a little off topic and sensationalist for Democratic Underground.

[uppityperson]

61. How is this topic pinned to where? I don't see it pinned anywhere.

Thank you for your concern about children's and women's rights. Those issues are topics for DU.

[ekwhite]

48. And Ben Stein had the unmitigated gall to defend these people

He was on CBS Sunday Morning yesterday with an editorial accusing the state of Texas of using "gestapo tactics" for taking these children away from YFZ Ranch!

[bronxiteforever]

49. Thanks for that info ekwhite-needs a separate post!

[Bicoastal]

52. Fucking Ben "I'm Jewish so I should be able to make Holocaust references willy-nilly" Stein...

...he's a traitor to The Tribe. First Darwinism=Dachau, now cops rescuing young girls from non-consensual underage sex=Gestapo marching Jews off to the death camps. WTF?!

If there was such a thing as Ex-communication in Judaism, I'd recommend his name to be first on the list.

[onehandle]

56. Ben Stein is such a creep.

Wait... He was on TV? What did he say.

[ekwhite]

67. I'll give you a couple of links - it is pretty disgusting

Here is the text.

Here is the closest link I could get to the video. Link
Look about halfway down the page.

[salin]

64. Ben Stein doesn't mind egg on his face

he eats it regularly and somehow stays deluded that the egg that he is eating off of his face is caviar = and he does so because right wing funders are so generous with him whenever he makes statements that are blatantly likely to end up with egg on his face.

[lib2DaBone]

57. Who the fuck cares ?

Let them live their life. How much worse can it be compared to life under the NEOCONS? Bush World equals no food, no water, no health care... ya.. that's so much better..... George

[uppityperson]

62. Perhaps you should do some research before discounting this Fundie group.

Have you any idea who these people are, how many of them there are, how many laws they are breaking, how many human rights they are breaking? "Let them live their life"? I guess you are ok with giving 14 yr old girls to adult men?

[salin]

65. I am thankful that I was not coerced via "the religious leader" to marry

a "chosen for me man" who already had three or four wives and numerous children when I was the age of 15 or 16.

While the issues you raise are serious and more universal (in terms of the number of folks that they affect), I have to say that if this affected you, your sisters, mother or daughters this way, that perhaps it might be of greater concern to you (ala more universal).

[Oreegone]

66. Dirty old white men

How can anyone say anything that makes this look like a usual little community? Yes, some of the girls who are 17 and have given birth. But they sure weren't 17 when they got pregnant. This has nothing to do with polygamy in the biblical sense. This has to do with self gratification , rape of children, power and control of other humans. Given enough time kool aid most likely would have been served for the ultimate control. People go to jail every day for this and these dirty old white men should join them. It is sickening and sad. Anyone who thinks this is normal behavior are some twisted sisters.:banghead:

[Marrah_G]

73. This has nothing to do with race- there are people like this all races

[Oreegone]

82. This has to do with old white men

I didn't see anyone of any other color involved. I was just giving a description of the people involved. You are right perverts do come in all colors, this selection happens to be white.

[LynneSin]

70. When there are 400+ children being abused then we should care

Girls being forced into 'marriage' at a young age
Boys being forced out of the cult because too many compete for the women in the cult (can't have 1:1 ration)

[Marrah_G]

72. There is more to being a progressive then disliking Bush

Part of that is an interest in human rights. The women in the FLDS are raised to be slaves, cut off from the world, with no knowledge of their rights. This is America. We outlawed slavery long ago. Even for women.