H1-B claimants 'ordinary' workers, not geniuses: Report

[OhioChick]

Source: Economic Times India

29 Apr, 2008, 0030 hrs IST

WASHINGTON: Most of the claimants of the H1-B visas, much sought-after by skilled professionals including Indians, are people doing 'ordinary' work and not the geniuses as claimed by industry lobbyists, a report said here.

"Those arguing for an increase in the number of H1-B visas (ostensibly temporary visas for 'specialty occupations', many of them in the computer industry) claim that continued US leadership in science, technology, engineering and mathematics hinges on our ability to import the world's best engineers and scientists," the Centre for Immigration Studies said in a statement.

"But this new data analysis shows that the vast majority of H1-B workers, including those at most major tech firms, are not the innovators industry portrays them to be," it added.

The report titled 'H1-Bs: Still Not the Best and the Brightest' is published in the May issue of CIS and is authored by Norman Matloff, professor of computer science at the University of California, Davis.


Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/H1-B_claimants_ordinary_workers_not_geniuses_Report/articleshow/2992781.cms

---

Well, Color Me Surprised....

[fed_up_mother]

1. Just shocked!

I'm speechless, I tell ya'.

:sarcasm:

[snooper2]

2. well no shit..

I can walk 80 feet to a section of cubes and show you that :rofl:

[Bozita]

3. Guaranteed not to appear on the evening news shows.

Double your money back.

[nichomachus]

4. It's not about genius. It's about indentured servitude.

The whole problems with these programs, as well as other guest-worker programs, is that you have to do what you're told, keep your mouth shut, and don't rock the boat.

If the corporation who owns your ass is the slightest bit displeased with you, you can become "illegal" with the stroke of a pen and have to pack up and go home. They don't have quite that much control over American workers -- although with the systematic destruction of the middle class, they're working on it.

[notesdev]

5. Anyone who has worked with them knows

that these guys are by and large just "sweatshop" workers imported to drive down the wages of one of the few professions left in this country that offered a good chance at social mobility.

[GetTheRightVote]

15. I could not have said it better myself, but what to do about it

[notesdev]

16. Consider any H-visa supporter an enemy

of the working people.

Democrats in particular have no business bending over for the likes of Bill Gates and other corporate fat-cats.

[barnel]

22. that is the absolute unqualified truth

I do not vote for an H-1b supporter PERIOD

[OhioChick]

23. Then you and the rest of us are screwed....

McCain, HRC and Obama are ALL for raising the cap.

BTW...Welcome. :hi:

[barnel]

26. How do we get this across to the Democratic party?

'BTW...Welcome. '

thank you.. I see we are both obcessed with H-1b. H-1b to me meant that I had been playing against a stacked deck my whole life. A deck stacked by both parties, including the one my family had been part of for 4 generations

how do we get this party back on track? it's not ignorance, it's sellout

[OhioChick]

27. The Only Way

is to vote out all of the assholes. What else is there?

I wouldn't consider myself to be "obsessed, but rather very concerned about my ability to put food on the table in the not so distant future.

[barnel]

28. no offence intended

i should have spoken only for myself. but i will say, that i am definately obcessed about it

so much so that i went to grassley's office when his record was so bad it seemed pointless (5 years ago), but i went because i was going to all of them

[OhioChick]

29. Maybe you didn't see this...

DURBIN AND GRASSLEY INTRODUCE FIRST BIPARTISAN H-1B VISA REFORM BILL TO PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

Monday, April 2, 2007

- U.S. Senators Dick Durbin (D-IL) and Chuck Grassley (R-IA) introduced "The H-1B and L-1 Visa Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act of 2007" late last week to overhaul the H-1B and L-1 visa programs to give priority to American workers and crack down on unscrupulous employers who deprive qualified Americans of high-skill jobs.

The H-1B visa program allows American companies and universities to employ temporary foreign workers who have the equivalent of a U.S. bachelor's degree in a job category that is considered by the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services to be a "specialty occupation". The L-1 visa program allows companies to transfer certain employees from their foreign facilities to their U.S. facilities for up to seven years.

"Our immigration policy should seek to complement our U.S. workforce, not replace it," Durbin said. "Some employers have abused the H-1B and L-1 temporary work visa programs, using them to bypass qualified American job applicants. This bill will set up safeguards for American workers, and provide much-needed oversight and enforcement of employers who fail to abide by the law."

"This is about protecting the American worker," said Senator Grassley. "We're closing loopholes that employers have exploited by requiring them to be more transparent about their hiring and we're ensuring more oversight of these visa programs to reduce fraud and abuse. A little sunshine will go a long way to help the American worker."

Provisions of the Durbin-Grassley bill would change existing law in the following ways:

More: http://durbin.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=271783

BTW....You didn't offend me. :)

[barnel]

30. yes i did see it

and although i cant say for sure that my going to him got him on board, there's no doubt that he's the leader on it now, I went to ask him to support a Tancredo H-1b/L1 reform. I was shocked at how receptive they were to me.

grassley's pro-business, but one thing that's been is signature is that he HATES fraud, and people who think they're above the law, which is pretty much all H-1b is

[OhioChick]

31. Have you seen this? Quite Pathetic.

Peg H-1B visa cap at 115,000: US lawmakers

April 22, 2008 12:38 IST


A Republican caucus has asked the Democrat leadership in the US House of Representatives to approve a proposed Bill to nearly double the present 'artificial' cap on H1-B visas, much sought-after by skilled professionals, including Indians.

The Republican Study Committee of the House of Representatives, in a letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, appealed to them to take up the legislation and pass it in the next few months.

The panel called for an increase in the number of H-1B visas from the current 65,000 to 115,000 and for 20 per cent built-in annual increase.

The letter addressed to Pelosi and Hoyer, emphasised that the demand for the H-1Bs far outstrips the 'artificial' quotas.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/apr/22visa.htm

[barnel]

34. this blog post covers it all

yes, i did see that, i really did mean it when i said i was obcessed. I miss *nothing* on this issue

http://carriesnation.blogspot.com/search?q=24%2F7

[OhioChick]

39. Interesting....

Thanks for the link.

If you miss nothing...keep me updated. :thumbsup:

[barnel]

40. search google news and google blogs for H-1b once per day

and you'll know about everyting I know.

that's what i do

[OhioChick]

42. I Usually Search Indian News Sources...

They're more likely to report on US Corporations outsourcing their work. Don't hold your breath for the U.S. M$M to report on any of it.

[barnel]

47. much of what comes up on google new/blogs is indian

it's disgusting that you have to go to indian media to know what our congress is going to it's citizens

[ryanmuegge]

63. CHUCK GRASSLEY, of all people, is on the right side of this issue.

What's that say about our candidates?

This is depressing stuff.

[barnel]

64. what does it mean that grassley is on the right side?

it means that i spent an hour in his office about five years ago on this topic

i almost didnt go, because his record was so bad on h-1b. i only went because he was on the same floor as Harkin.

I thought Harkin would be the one to help, because he was My party, the working people's party. But I kept an open mind mind, and went to ALL of them, regardless of party.

Grassley's the only one who gave a damn about the injustice of it, Harkin(D-IA), Boswell(D-IA), and anyone who was running against Lathem(R-IA), couldnt have cared less

[ryanmuegge]

66. well, he does admit the truth: that it's stealing jobs from american workers.

my point is that grassley is to the left of our candidates, which is pathetic.

i'm surprised that he gave a shit at all, honestly.

[barnel]

67. me too

'i'm surprised that he gave a shit at all, honestly. '

it SHOCKED me, truthfully

at first, I thought he was bringing up reforms just to 'shoehorn' in a larger increase, and maybe he was

but i think he found the whole thing so rotten with corrpution, the crooks so arrogant about refusing even the tinyest of reforms that i think he really is dead set against it now

just google H-1b grassley - he's really covered a wide range of stink on this issue, and is on to almost ALL of it

my answer letters from Harkin(D-IA)? he talks about 'helping educate Americans', seemingly ignoring that we have to train THEM

and the thing is, there's really nothing 'left' about being against this. i was a contractor once, and this is really about dicating immigration policy, a minority against the majority, for the sole purpose of distorting markets to the advantage of one group of Americans over another. I see Grassley's angle as being level playing field for small business, and being simpley fair to American workers, in that you cant openly discriminate against them.

H-1b isnt left vs right, it's right vs wrong

[OhioChick]

68. Let's not forget

Dick Durbin.

[barnel]

69. Durbin is co-goodguy on all of it

absolutely

a few others out there as well, Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Dana Rorabacher(R-CA) who's been against this since at least 2000, and even people like Phyllis Schlafly and Pat Buchanan - people who as a kid, I'd never thought I'd ever agree with on anything

But H-1b is so anti-American, that people who have any principals AT ALL are against it, even if they're conservatives

(Goodguys Durbin and Sanders arent conservatives, Durbin is a liberal, Sanders is openly socialist )

[Deja Q]

70. Some politicians DO care.

And not all of them are on one side, or the other.

[followthemoney]

61. My H1-b conversation with Obama

I talked to Obama on a radio show during his campaign for the Illinois senate.

The engineering department of the company I worked for had been decimated but had a few H1-b workers kept on. The results of the big telecom crash was still having its effect on employment.

During that period, when I was looking for new employment, three allocations of 65,000 new h1-b visa were issued. I job search was in competition with foreign workers willing to work for thousands less than I had been paid.

The future senator Obama explained that I needed more education and he would push to see that it would be made available to unemployed MSEE (Masters in Electrical Engineering) types who made up so many of the downsized.

The financial advantage to corporations which my question to him addressed was not deemed worthy of comment by him.

I ended the call feeling that either he didn't understand what I had said or that he did understand and wouldn't take the opportunity to offend the corporate masters while he himself was looking for a new job.

[barnel]

65. my impression

i$ that he under$tand$ the i$$ue perfectly

after all, the co-sponsor of grassly's reforms, is none other than Senator Durbin(D-IL)

[cascadiance]

6. And probably most of them work for "body shops" where they can be paid lower wages...

... since they have no "domestic" employees working at these places that they have to have their wages measured against to ensure they are paid the "prevailing wage" for what they do. These tricks to subvert this system have been around for a decade or so...

[raouldukelives]

7. I need an H1-B dentist

Can't seem to find a cheap one around here.

[crimsonblue]

8. How much does an H1-B visa cost, anyone know?

Couldn't we spend that money on say, tuition assistance on the thousands of engineers and computer scientists that are exiting universities in the US every year without any job prospects? I have had numerous friends who were told that computer engineering/science was the best field to get into because it was exploding.. Well, now over half can't find jobs and the others are forced to work under these H1-B people, almost all of which have less skills, less intelligence, and less brainpower than my friends. To think that we can't find smart people in this country is ridiculous.. Oh wait, we have smart people, but they won't work for $15000 a yr and no health benefits.... We need to ERADICATE the H1-B program, and divert that money into making our Universities and public schools better.

[pattmarty]

9. Then make the companies hire Americans first before importing unnecessary labor.

[barnel]

55. nice try

from the department of labor:

"H-1B nondependent employers are not subject to the conditions, and their H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of the foreign worker"

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002123.html

[pattmarty]

60. I was being sarcastic, but you get my point.

[Deja Q]

71. Why not put tariffs on offshored labor? Other countries do.

Which is why those other developed countries still remain viable.

I'm not against helping others, but there's plenty around that visible says America is in trouble.

[OhioChick]

73. Tariffs?

They should've done that long ago. I'm all for it.

[central scrutinizer]

10. "ordinary" is euphemism for non-union

sounds better than scab

[barnel]

32. that's exactly what H-1b is

I worked as a manufacturing systems analyst at the start of my career. I became very curious about the difference between 'exempt' and 'non exempt' employees, and the difference between 'professional' and union people.

I remember talking with a department head, who'd started out as a guy on the line, and I asked him what it was like working in the union. he said ' I really liked it, I had a supervisor who didnt really like me, but it didnt matter because I had the steward backing me up'

It's like my whole world re-alligned at that moment. Yes, I was part of a somewhat privialged corporate systems group, but every step I took, every interaction I had was colored by the fact the the guy at the top didnt like me. More and more I realized that the union guys were far more in touch with reality than I could have ever guessed

and yes, 'scab labor' is the whole point of H-1b

[notesdev]

52. quite an accomplishment

that they were able to produce 'scab' labor in an industry that isn't even unionized.

The 'union' is ALL Americans, and the 'scab' labor are ALL unneeded immigrants who come here looking for work - which is most of them.

Then there's the whole indentured servitude thing...

[jody]

11. Both Repug and Dems have voted for H1-B increases.

:puke: on all representatives that support H1-B quotas to the detriment of U.S. workers.

[formercia]

12. Sounds like the importing of Chinese labor to build the railroads

at slave wages.

[Hydra]

13. The surprise is that they are finally admitting this

Before it was all "How dare you suggest that we are importing slaves?!"

I swear, this country was built on slavery of one form or another, and it will die on it.

[Skittles]

14. I can tell you from personal experience many of them JUST PLAIN SUCK

fucking TERRIBLE

[barnel]

24. i remember one experience

there was this h-1b applicant i did a tech screen on, and i said 'dont hire him, he's got no database experience', and I knew PLENTY of unemployed Americans that did have it

Well, they hired him, and one day the database on our test project was completely locked up. Turns out this 'Einstien' took it upon himself to index every field of every table in the database,thinking it would make it go faster, clearly not quite understanding what 'index' means.

Any American would have known 'dont touch what you dont understand'

grrrrrrrrrr

makes me FURIOUS to have Americans called 'less able' than these losers

[GetTheRightVote]

17. I am always fixing pages after they have at them, terrible really

I am tired of the attitude given to them that we suck so they are needed when in fact it is only to drive down our wages and push up our hours. The last project I was on made us work horribles hours like we were slaves largely due to the fact that the internationals brought over would do it.

Why is it ok for corporations to bring down the standard way of life Americans use to have, like being able to feed their children/family, housing them, being able to drive to work without it causing a small fortune, etc. The cost of living in the US is so much higher then Indian or some other country as well. The average American worker is not greedy, it is the corporation who steal our careers and jobs from us who are truly the greed monsters.

[darue]

18. now their needs to be a price paid for all the lies n/t

[barnel]

25. there wont be

it's not a lie, if it's told to help rich people

[barnel]

19. 'H-1b preferred' job ad

really, why is this not only tolerated, but promoted by BOTH parties?

http://java-errors.blogspot.com/2008/04/ahmedrecruiter75863-need-java.html

[barnel]

20. was surprised that article made it to United press intl

thought this truth was 'taboo' in mainstream media

woo hoo! only took them 10 years to figure it out

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/04/28/h-1b_visas_going_to_average_joes/5253/

[bean fidhleir]

51. "why is this not only tolerated, but promoted by BOTH parties?"

Because BOTH parties represent the same people, and those people aren't us. For some reason we can't seem to understand that, even though they sell us out again and again. We choose to believe their words rather than their actions. We choose "hope" over reality.

If we were smart, we'd get together and vote them out of office. But we seem to be stupid, more stupid than other creatures because we don't seem to learn from experience.

[darue]

21. American's should have an explicit opportunity to bid on each of these jobs

make them put them up on a web site for a month.

[Xipe Totec]

35. They do.

And it's up for a year, not a month.

Every one of these positions requires the employer to post the job. If an American is qualified and applies for the job, then it goes to the American.

The venom, hatred and misinformation in some of these posts is just sad.

[barnel]

38. yup, we made this fake youtube

to push lies against h-1b, when in truth every american gets first crack at the job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

[darue]

49. they clearly state the goal is to NOT hire americans. that's no lie. it's treason not management n/t

[OhioChick]

41. Not Entirely So....

As I've said in the past, my company will put an ad in the local paper and throw the thousands (literally) of applications into the trash and say that they "tried" to hire a US citizen but there were none. I've seen it happen time and time again through the years at many companies.

As for prevailing wage, H-1B's are typically given a different title.


Lou Dobbs: Law Firm teaches how to avoid hiring Americans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx--jNQYNgA&feature=related


PERM Fake Job Ads defraud Americans to secure green cards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

[FormerOstrich]

50. Hmmm...misinformation???

don't know where you have heard this but you could not be more wrong.

[barnel]

56. and here's your proof

from the department of labor:

"H-1B nondependent employers are not subject to the conditions, and their H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of the foreign worker"

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002123.html

[notesdev]

53. I've processed these visas

during a time when I did some work for an immigration lawyer over a period of about 2 years.

It's not even a secret that the employers almost always know who they intend to hire before they even put out the ad; and that the ads are tailored specifically to the intended hiree's resume. It's pretty much like saying the job requirement is to be that person.

[barnel]

54. i had an h-1b tell me the exact same thing 10 years ago

that his job was advertised requiring things specific from his background, things that had adsolutly no relevance to the place we worked

and it comes down to this

'why is every traditional standard of integrity and intolerance of FRAUD thrown out the window, when dealing with Americans and the H-1b program?'

[high density]

74. We had a large H1-B visa scam going on in Maine

Companies wanting H1-Bs were placing bogus job ads in our local newspapers with insane requirements. They were evidently using the response from those to "prove" that there were no US workers available to fulfill the positions. They chose Maine because we processed the requests faster, even though the jobs were really outside of our state.

[Pastiche423]

33. How can the H1-B visa people

afford to live in this country? Do they live communally? Is housing a perk they also receive for working for slave wages?

I can not believe any Democrat can say w/a striaght face that they are needed here when our economy is in the crapper.

[barnel]

36. many live crammed several in a 1 bedroom apartment

that happens all over the place

[Pastiche423]

37. Thanks

I suspected that, but was not sure.

[Bozita]

46. A pal rented a 4br home in '83 to a crew from China moving a copper/brass plant to China.

This was the first I'd heard of any such US-to-Mainland-China move. They packaged and crated everything except the buildings. Took them 9-10 months.

Pal swore they were the greatest renters ever. Said only one spoke English. House was left in immaculate condition.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. The bus that I usually take to the gym is always crowded with about

80% South Asians, all headed downtown.

I don't know where they work, but I suspect that they all live in the same apartment building, which is also along the route.

[Deja Q]

72. That is the unmitigated truth.

They see nothing by it, and I hope all money sent to their home countries is given valid scrutiny.

[lovuian]

43. Its all a LIE most of the work is elementary stuff

any American do for BETTER WAGES

[antigop]

44. God bless Norman Matloff --- he has exposed the myths surrounding h1-b's

Here is his website...
http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/itaa.html

He has even testified before Congress.

He has been a critic of the visa programs for some time.

[OhioChick]

45. Bookmarked for later...

Thanks for posting it. :)

[barnel]

48. matloff has been on top of the lies for a decade

a prof who cares about what's happening to his past students - good for him!

[Lost4words]

59. thanks for the link!

been out of work for 6 years now, nobody wants a 55 year old with no recent work experience.
I cant even get a job at a GD sub shop!

8643

[devilgrrl]

57. I should print this out and post it at my office

Imagine the hijinx! :evilgrin:

[barnel]

58. be activist, but be smart about it

being 'activist' in the office will acomplish nothing, will get you fired or at least avoided by others

you can be VERY activist anonymously or privately

it's not a matter of 'kissing up', it's a matter of understanding territory, and the office is NOT part of the every receeding democracy