Filly Eight Belles breaks down after 2nd-place Derby finish

[ckramer]

Source: ap

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - The filly Eight Belles finished second behind favorite Big Brown in the Kentucky Derby on Saturday, then collapsed with two broken front ankles and was euthanized after crossing the wire.

The field of 20 horses was galloping out around the first turn at Churchill Downs when Eight Belles suddenly went down on both front legs and jockey Gabriel Saez slid off.

"When we passed the wire I stood up," said Saez, a first-time Derby rider. "She started galloping funny. I tried to pull her up. That's when she went down."

An equine ambulance reached her near the second turn and tended to the filly.

"There was no possible way to save her," on-call veterinarian Dr. Larry Bramlage said. "She broke both front ankles. That's a bad injury."

Read more: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90EFIPO0&show_article=1

---

That's Hillary's picked horse !

[thunder rising]

1. A dead horse get's more press than a dead GI

Still, Eight Belles was a sentimental pick by 157,770 fans, second- largest crowd in Derby history. She even had the support of Democratic presidential candidate Hilary Clinton. Eight Belles repaid their faith by returning $10.60 and $6.40.

[Plucketeer]

16. The deadliest month in Iraq since September -

and here in the good ol' USA we're showin' the tearuis's that they haven't won by making a big deal over a dead horse. OH the HEART-WRENCHING that filly's owner must be suffering! So let's all observe a moment of silence for the heroic Eight Belles! OK, now what's the name of that youngster that was blown away by an IED yesterday? Let's honor him too! ................. ah, what was that? We don't KNOW his name? Oh, I guess since our esteemed president want's to save face and doesn't want the soldier's family and loved ones embarrassed, we'll just keep quiet on this one. After all... silence IS golden.

:puke:

[BearSquirrel2]

71. I consoled myself ...

I consoled myself knowing that 8 bells is just the most visible part of meat grinder called horse racing. The owner probably has 10 other horses and regularly buys and sells horses based on their racing prospects. We all know where the losers go. Why should I get sentimental about a winner?

[bulloney]

43. Eight Belles' death was the lead story on ABC's GMA Sunday.

Spent the first 5-6 minutes giving several perspectives of the incident. Meanwhile, the Iraq war claims more lives; deadly tornadoes rip through the U.S.; and our news gerbils bemoan the death of a horse.

[mac2]

56. ABC sponsored the race.

You would expect them to talk about it.

[rdmtimp]

70. Wrong network - the race was on NBC. nt

[mac2]

74. Yes...you are right.

http://www.theonlinewire.com/articleView.aspx?ID=3499

[kestrel91316]

2. This happens too often. They have bred the strength right out

of these guys for the sake of speed.

They ought to do a little outcrossing with Quarter Horse or Morgan or something with frickin' BONES.

[FARAFIELD]

3. You have that right

Poly turf doesnt help either, Unless you are the Venue owner. Depite what we might want to think. The second place finisher in the Derby breaking down is news. Now if they are still talking about it on Tuesday then check back. On the other hand the barbaro wing-ding was sickening, for those of us old enough to remember RUffian breaking down live on ABC, barbaro was not much at all.

[kestrel91316]

8. I remember Ruffian. That was when I quit watching horse races.

I can't watch that sort of thing. I have been in on equine leg surgeries where they try to put the "bag of ice" back together. As bad as it looks on the outside, when you cut the skin open it's REALLY a mess.

[BrklynLiberal]

20. That was my first thought. When they announced that there was a tragedy at the Kentucky Derby, I

just knew it was the filly.
Ruffian, Barbaro, and now Eight Belles...Tell me again what a great sport horse racing is...;(

What won't they destroy for the entertainment of humans..just another form of bread and circus as far as I am concerned.

[kestrel91316]

61. Well, the majority of racehorses NEVER break a leg. They just get

retired and sold to the recreational market when they aren't fast enough.

But like NASCAR, when there's a train wreck on the track, it can be dramatic, and lethal. I would venture a guess that NASCAR is more dangerous than horse racing, but that would be just a guess.

[Runcible Spoon]

65. "recreational market"

is that some code for Asian/European meat?

[kestrel91316]

98. Uh, NOOOOOOOOO.

Some of the best hunter/jumpers and such are retired race horses. They are used, um, RECREATIONALLY. That means they are ridden or sometimes driven. The Amish get a lot of their buggy horses off the track.

If they were going to be eaten, that would be the FOOD market.

[Runcible Spoon]

100. wow you don't get sarcasm much.

And the sheer tiny number of TBs making it to be someone's hunter/jumper is slim. People with the money to do that sport far prefer warmbloods tehse days and they will spend the money on those instead of spending the time rehabbing some broken down OTTB. Sure, it happens, but when it DOES happen it's people like me and trust me the people who are skilled enough are few and far between.

[kestrel91316]

102. Sometimes stupidity and sarcasm are hard to distinguish on

a forum post. Hence the traditional use of the sarcasm smilie by those using less-than-obvious sarcasm.

[BrklynLiberal]

125. Yes. That is where far, far too many horses end up...

[mac2]

86. Their genetic talent not worth anything in the market?

[kestrel91316]

99. Well, that, too. But they can be used for both breeding and riding

in the case of mares. Most stallions, if they are not great racing material, get gelded and then go to the recreational market. Stallions are hard to handle and only for expert riders, so you won't see them in the show ring much, or tooling along the trail.

[Runcible Spoon]

101. what kind of la la land do you come from?

I'm trained fourth level dressage, have done every imaginable equine sport imaginable (except racing!) and have trained hunters/jumpers/combined training horses/dressage horses in 3 different states. The are only fice kinds people wanting an off the track TB: people who can't afford warmbloods but can still turn around an OTTB (ie horse crazy but poor grad students like me); first-time owners who picked a pretty horsie instead of the dependable nag, polo pony recruiters (a savage life in itself), maybe one or two trainers combing around for prospects, and the knackers.

How many people like me do you think walk around livestock auctions picking over beaten up TBs?

In all of the time I've spent in different stables in different states, I've met exactly ONE OTTB who made it as a professional combined training horse. Even at the foxhunting barn, where tehy traditionally love thoroughbreds, people wanted warmbloods. There were exactly FIVE TB's in the whole hunt. Three of them were bred down by a farm and two were OTTBs, and I'm counting my mare:



I bought her at the "fancier" horse-only auction. Even though we kept her lightly sedated and moved her to increasingly large paddocks while she got to know the other horses, she took off break neck speed the first time she saw open pasture and fractured her cannon bone. She had never seen that much space. She fully recovered and learned to feel safe in wide spaces but it was tragic that she spent the first 3 years of her life without open spaces.

[kestrel91316]

103. Oh, well, EXCUUUUUUSE my ignorant fucking ass.

I hereby acknowledge you as the absolute expert on all things equine and the rest of us will just STFU. I obviously hallucinated all the times I was told by someone that they had bought a thoroughbred that wasn't track material.

Perhaps you misunderstood my point, but it's more likely you are just a raving bitch. My point was that OTTBs aren't instantly sold for slaughter. Most of them are sold for USE as LIVING, BREATHING horses.

Not everybody is a rich SOB who can import a $50k warmblood, dearie. And there are plenty of privately owned hunter/jumpers and other recreational horses who in fact washed up at the track. In your ivory tower of professional horsedom I'm sure they are beneath your contempt.

BTW, what the hell did I do to you to earn this??
.
.
.
.
.


Hats off to the QUEEN, DUers!!!!!! Don't cross HER if you want to avoid a tongue-lashing.

(..........kestrel goes off, muttering about crazy persons and vowing to NEVER post about horses on DU again - horse people appear to be nuttier than cat people, if that's possible.........)

[Runcible Spoon]

105. wow well THIS raving bitch, to use your own words, knows that you're full of manure.

Í would post statistics on post-race careers of TBs, but ya know what? Nobody requires the racing industry or any other associated organization to keep records like that. Even if they DID I can assure you there would be rampant corruption to cover up how many are sold for what or just outright killed for insurance money or just to get rid of them.

I know this world and I, as a horse lover, think it's SICK. The reason I am taking you to task is I think it's extremely dangerous for anyone to spread the warm and fuzzy lie that any significant number of these animals has any real life after they are disposed of. I can't cite the statistics because they don't exist. All I can provide is my own and other horse people I trust extensive experience in rehabbing TBs as well as my own inference from the information I DO find in articles.

Call me as crazy as you want, but I have done NOTHING on this thread but defend the lives and well-being of these creatures I love. If that makes me "nuttier than a cat person"then I am in good company.

I won't report your comment, I'll leave it up so others can see what kind of person resorts to petty personal insults.

[StarryNite]

104. She's beautiful.

I'm glad she has you. :hug:

[Duppers]

112. I second that!

ForceofNature, she's beautiful and so lucky to have YOU.

[Duppers]

111. a little info

From Peta:
While the world watched to see what would happen to Barbaro, countless other horses continued to die on the tracks, and tens of thousands more (including thoroughbreds) were sold for slaughter—their meat used in cat food or sold to European countries for human consumption.
The story is being pitched as an unexpected accident that shocked the country, but the truth is that Barbaro's tragedy is a very public reminder of the plight of racehorses everywhere and the cruel fate that awaits so many victims of the horse racing industry.

http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=65
http://blog.peta.org/archives/2007/01/


Australia has some data:

‘Wastage’—
the Terrible Term Used for the Routine Discarding of Racing Horses
You can count on one or two hands, the Melbourne cup winners that now graze on beautiful paddocks in their retirement. The vast majority of thoroughbreds (flat and jumps racers) and standardbred (harness racers) horses fail to run fast enough or become injured and are just discarded by the racing industry.


Where Do They Go?
Those destined for slaughter may go to local knackeries (used for pet meat for example)—an estimated 20,000 horses each year—or are purchased for slaughter at the two horse abattoirs in Australia (Peterborough in SA and Caboolture in QLD). Approximately 3,500 tonnes of horse meat is exported for human consumption in Japan and Europe.

The long distance transport of horses (for human consumption) is not well monitored or regulated. Travel is usually stressful for horses, and research shows that even travel of 6 hours causes suppression of the immune system (an indicator of welfare problems) - horses may be transported for several days to the export slaughterhouses

A recent study conducted by researchers at the University of Sydney <‘Epidemiology of horses leaving the Thoroughbred and Standardbred racing industries, by Hayek AR, Jones B, Evans DL, Thomson PC and McGreevy PD - Proceedings of the 1st International Equitation Science Symposium August 2005> attempted to track ex-racing horses to determine their fate. Similar to other studies they found almost 40% of race horses leaving the industry each year due to poor performance, illness or injury or behavioural or other problems. Of these, 16.6% of the Standardbreds and 6.3% of Thoroughbreds ended up at the slaughterhouse.

The authors indicate that the figure going to slaughterhouses is likely to be underestimated by the survey-respondents, particularly as many that go to auction or to other owners may also subsequently be sent to slaughter.

Sport of Kings?
The horse-racing industry is no different to any other animal industry. It values animals on the basis of financial ‘return’. The ethics of any gambling industry are questionable – but when the gamble is with flesh and blood, there will inevitably be very few ‘winners’ and many losers. The drive for financial and personal success and glory is about return for trainers and owners – not the horses. At best, horses lead an unnatural and restricted life whilst racing, and at worst end up as ‘wastage’. The ‘glory’ that once beckoned is a far cry from the slaughterhouse that awaits most unsuccessful racehorses—the fancy racing name a long distant memory...
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/issues/horse_racing.php


In the UK:
Around 70 per cent of retired British racehorses are slaughtered and sold to the European market each year, says Jerry Watkins, Horseworld’s welfare manager.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/somerset/content/articles/2007/12/04/horseworld_feature.shtml



In the US:

Kentucky state anti-slaughter law dies in committee! ...
The racing industry has been setting a good standard for equine industries recently, by instituting adoption programs for OTTB's (Off The Track Thoroughbreds). Kentucky residents, officials, and politicians alike, loudly denounced the recent false claims of abandoned horses being found in Kentucky. Comments led us to believe that Kentucky was a strongly anti-slaughter state...until a bill that would have made slaughter illegal in Kentucky died in committee recently. Read more to find out how you can help revive this bill and get it passed into law!
http://www.usesr.org/news.php


All U.S. Horse Slaughter for Human Consumption Has Stopped!!!
April 02 2007
Remember the spending bill that was passed into law in 2006, cutting off all federal funding for USDA inspections of horse meat? Our side was so excited, but of course, the slaughterhouses found a way around federal law, by paying our USDA inspectors themselves, to our great disappointment.
Several national animal welfare organizatioins filed a lawsuit against the USDA for accepting private payments. All three U.S. slaughterhouses voluntarily named themselves as co-defendants in the lawsuit. On March 28, 2007, United States District Court Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly ruled that private payment to government entities for private services is unconstitutional and this forced the immediate cease of slaughtering horses for human consumption by Cavel International, the only slaughterhouse in the U.S. that is still slaughtering horses for human consumption- approximately 1,000 per week, in fact.
http://www.usesr.org/news.php?readmore=15


The Sport of Kings Can't Provide a Royal Ending for Derby Winner Ferdinand

He ended up as pet food.

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pets_related_news_and_events/the_sport_of_kings_cant_provide_a_royal_ending_for_derby_winner_ferdinand.html



From an October 27, 1996 NYTimes article:

Q. Usually, what happens to horses when they are not competitive anymore?
A. The Amish from Pennsylvania buy a lot of them, and some are turned into work animals. But for lack of buyers and lack of need, they take them to auctions, where they are purchased and sent to slaughterhouses. A quarter-million horses a year, including retired racehorses, are certified to be slaughtered and sold for human consumption, mostly in Europe.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9402E4DF1330F934A15753C1A960958260


From Stop Horse Slaughter:

What kind of horses are slaughtered?
No horse is safe from slaughter. Children's ponies, show horses, family horses, retired show horses, or horses from families who just can't afford them any longer are all at risk of being slaughtered for human consumption. Stolen horses also often end up at slaughter houses. Slaughter is an easy way for a horse thief to make a quick $300-700 on a stolen horse and the evidence is destroyed. 90% of horses slaughtered for human cosumption are young, healthy, sound horses who deserve a better life.

http://www.stophorseslaughter.com/

One interesting statistic, roughly 70% of all horses that are slaughtered in the USA are quarter horses (stock-type, some with verifiable AQHA papers). This is fact based on the slaughter plants' records. There are over 3 MILLION registered quarter horses in the USA.
http://www.stophorseslaughter.com/slaughterinfo.htm


However, there are many rescue agenies saving some of these wonderful horses. Just google or ck this site:
http://www.horsesdiaries.com/

[mac2]

114. Thanks for the information people.

Clearly something needs to be done. These horses are used and then discarded with little concern. Much like we treat dogs.

[newfie11]

119. And then the owners who can't afford to pay 150.00 a ton

(because hay has gone up) have no way of getting rid of these horses. They stand around starving to death.

Now of course the killers buyers can truck the horses to mexico to slaughter. Believe me I think a quick trip to a local slaughter house would be better than hauling to Mexico and the conditions found there.

I have 5 horses and they will die of old age with me. However there is a need for killer buyers unless there is someone who is willing to take all the horses that would have gone to killer. In my area we are on the 10 year of drought. Hay has gone from $40.00 a ton to $150.00. People that were struggling to pay for hay are now struggling to pay for gas and food for themselves. Sooner or later the hay man needs to be paid and that's when the hay stops coming. That's when the horses start starving.

[Duppers]

131. you make very good points

As our economy worsens, so will the fate of our animals.

:(

[BrklynLiberal]

130. I believe it was Gandhi who said that the greatness of a nation can be judged by how it trests its

animals.

Very, very sad commentary on most of the nations of this planet...

[superconnected]

113. Beautiful, beautiful horse. Thanks for sharing!

[BrklynLiberal]

127. She is exquisite,

[childslibrarian]

69. I too remember that race

And it broke my heart.

[saigon68]

92. Ruffian was a great Champion--- her Demise was barbaric

Ruffian (April 17, 1972 - July 7, 1975)considered to be one of the greatest female racehorses of all time.

Her eleventh and final race, run at Belmont Park on July 6, 1975, was a match race between Ruffian and that year's Kentucky Derby winner, Foolish Pleasure. The two horses shared the same jockey, Jacinto Vasquez. Vasquez chose to ride Ruffian in the match race, believing her to be the better of the two horses. The "equine battle of the sexes" was heavily anticipated and attended by more than 50,000 spectators, with an estimated 18 million watching on television.



Just as the starting bell sounded and the race began, Ruffian hit her shoulder extremely hard on the starting gate. She recovered quickly, but was obviously in pain and leaning more heavily on her right foreleg compensating for the pain. The first quarter-mile (402 m) was run in a blazing 22 1/5 seconds, with Ruffian ahead by a nose. Little more than a 1 furlong (201 m) later, Ruffian was in front by half a length when both sesamoid bones in her right foreleg snapped.<1> Vasquez tried to pull her up, but the filly wouldn't stop. She kept on running, pulverizing her sesamoids, ripping the skin of her fetlock as the bones burst through, driving the open wound into the sting sand of the Belmont track, tearing her ligaments, until her hoof was flopping uselessly, bent up like the tip of a ski. She was known for her incredible love of running and unwillingness to lose. She had never before been behind in a race.


Ruffian is buried near a flag pole in the infield of Belmont Park. When she was alive, her trainer always put her in one of his old blankets, but when she was buried, he buried her in two of her good blankets, because she deserved them. She was buried facing toward the finish line.

[Roland99]

9. No synthetic track at Churchill.

[mac2]

47. What kind of track was it at the Kentucky Derby?

It was pretty deep and dusty. The horses were full of it.

[Roland99]

79. That's proof that Churchill still uses dirt as synthetic tracks aren't as bad

And perhaps you didn't realize that it rained like mad here on Fri and overnight on Fri. and until about mid-morning. But, it dried quickly with the wind and sun and they were actually spraying it down for the later races.


http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080429/SPORTS07/804290442/1002/SPORTS

[mac2]

87. I do remember it rained a lot but the track was very deep and

dusty. The horses covered with dust as they ran. What kind of track was it?

[newfie11]

6. Quarter horses or Morgans don't run a mile and and a half

If this breed was given a chance to mature and not run as a 2-3year old maybe they would be healthier. That doesn't even go into the legal steroids they are given while racing!

My brother has racing thoroughbreds in Kentucky and it was a shock to hear the jockey club does allow steroid injections as long as given by a vet.

I remember Ruffian and what a beautiful promising filly she was. What a waste

[kestrel91316]

10. I know QHs and Morgans aren't as fast. There's the rub.

And yes, letting them mature would be a BIG help. Normal riding horses don't have to carry a rider until nearly three, I thought.

[ananda]

15. Oh dear!

Giving racehorses steroids is legal!!??

That's tantamount to animal abuse. It
makes bones weaker and brittle, and has
other bad effects. Sheesh!

[newfie11]

17. Yep, as long as it is done by a vet.

When I lived in Virginia I always wondered why the thoroughbreds coming in for layups were wilder than a march hare. I didn't know then about the steroids.

[mac2]

48. Steriod might be a problem for horses. It is for humans.

Do they test before and after the race?

[newfie11]

51. it is my understanding the blood/urine tests are done after the race

and only on the winners. The steroids are suppose to be with drawn 24 hours before the race. This varies from state to state.

[mac2]

54. There was a chance of injection when only the man walking

the horse was alone in that tunnel below the stadium or something. They had loose clothing on and turned and stopped etc.

What chances are there that a horse would break both legs?

Would they do a blood test on a Eight Bells since they shot her?

The racing industry needs to be investigated since there is a lot of things going on that involve a lot of money.

Big Browns owner was a controversial figure with a shady past. He said, he didn't bet on the race but who knows for sure? Some one could have done it for him or as a fake name.

[newfie11]

78. I am sure she was not shot

I have had horses put down due to illness and there is a simple injection that will do it. No one would shoot a horse out there on the track in front of all those people.

[mac2]

85. Yes...or gave the horse an injection to kill her fast.

In drug analysis sometimes one drug falls over the other one and you can't see what it was. Others can be seen. Or not done at all if the horse is declared dead. Even then a person who has drug analysis knowledge could get around it.

I as the owner would test for drugs and demand nothing be done before I got there.

It should be the law to drug test before injecting a lethal drug.

[Hawkowl]

32. Racing infants

The Kentucky Derby races 2 year olds. The average thoroughbred doesn't stop growing till about age 6. The horses aren't fragile if they are raced as mature adults. It wouldn't matter if you crossed them with a Clydesdale (in fact it would be worse because draft horses grow till about 8 years old), they would still break their bones because the bones aren't anywhere near solid.

If you put the Derby in human terms, it would be like running a seven year old human in a marathon, and then lamenting how weak the breed is when the child dropped dead in mile ten.

It is disgusting and there is only one reason to race horses so young: GREED. It costs a lot of money to raise a horse to maturity (I know because I've done it) and people want a quick return on their money. It is cruel and inhumane and these needless deaths could be easily prevented by just racing adult horses. Besides, if you think these horses are fast, you should climb aboard an eight year old 1600 pound thoroughbred. It will snap your head back.

[TheDonkey]

35. yikes, very interesting way to put it

[Pharlo]

42. No kidding,

They don't even start formally training the Lipizzan Stallions until they're four years old. Why? Because they need the time for their legs and body to develop to be able to do the movements without injuring themselves.

[JeanGrey]

44. ManO' War's trainer/owners kept him OUT of the Derby for this

reason alone - they felt it was too hard on the horses for their age.

[mac2]

55. How old were most the winners and did the older ones survive longer?

That's a project for some horse person eh?

[Runcible Spoon]

66. it's a risk/benefit calculation

usually if you're lucky enough to keep a winner up for a while you retire them for breeding which is more profitable anyway. Trainers know it's only a matter of time before they get injured. That's why you hear all this language of not running the Triple Crown in entirety bc. "we're gonna save Xhorse for a better running in the Preakness and not run him in the Derby" etc.

[mac2]

75. If their ankles are weak why not support them with tape, etc. ?

Is that illegal?

[Runcible Spoon]

94. would take more than a little bit of tape to hold up thousands of pounds of pressure..

they do wrap their legs, but we're talking literally about bone-crushing pressure.

[flvegan]

4. Another animal dead for the sake of money and entertainment.

How...fabulous.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

13. Yep... pass the mint juleps. (n/t)

[wisteria]

5. How sad. Poor horse. n/t

[OhioChick]

7. Another dead animal due to

entertainment and gambling. :(

[backwoodsbob]

11. I cried over this

you would have to own a horse to understand..my god what a horror.

She pushed to the extreme and died...im still in shock.I cried for hours after this.

I hate WHAT THEY DO TO THESE HORSES

[MissDeeds]

25. I agree

I love animals and cannot bear to watch the races. Those beautiful horses, slapped with crops, driven to break-neck speeds on delicate ankles, for the sake of "entertainment". What a hell of "past-time". I am disgusted by the waste of this beautiful horse. It's a disgrace.

[DCofVA]

12. You shouldn't even get on a horse's back till it is at least 4 years old

Let alone race it a break neck speed for over a mile. Their backs and legs are nowhere near fully developed at 2 and 3 years of age. It would save countless horses lives if they would just wait till they got a little bit older. The Triple Crown should be a race for 5 year olds.

[Hawkowl]

33. Exactly!

The Derby races 1.5 to 2 year olds. These are babies. In many cases these horse will add 50% to their weight once they reach maturity at about SIX years of age. Greed is the only reason to race horses at such a young age.

[dbackjon]

14. Another victim of the barbaric "sport" of horse racing

Not much different than dog-fighting, IMHO.

Anyone that watches, or participates is a sick mother fucker.

[Jersey Ginny]

22. Your a little harsh, I'd say

The horse racing industry, which I have worked in (both Standardbreds and Thoroughbreds) does lots of good. In NJ where open spaces is precious, the racing farms really help limit suburban sprawl and keep more open spaces. Most trainers are decent people and take good care of their horses. Like any sport or any endeavour, there are creeps and there are abuses. Mostly, it was a great experience. There is nothing like sitting on top of a thoroughbred racehorse with a tiny saddle galloping along a track!

[dbackjon]

68. Not really

It is animal abuse, plain and simple, to race under-developed horses that are being bred into uselessness.

[Jersey Ginny]

91. Most race horses go onto pretty good lives-show horses, breeding stock etc

These horses are not treated like the trajedy of Greyhound race dogs.

[Runcible Spoon]

96. why why why the same lies spouted over and over again.

many if not outright MOST end up dead. That's how it is. Losers most definately do NOT get used as breeding stock; that's what happens to winners if they last.

TBs are less than optimal second career horses because: they often come with behavioral problems, they often come with injuries, they are generally NOT easy keepers and require a lot of feeding and special nutrition, they are not known for having good feet which means extra farrier costs, they are very sensitive horses and are not generally suited for casual recreational riders. They require a lot of careful training to make them into good riding horses and while they are very intelligent they are extremely sensitive and will quickly distrust trainers who abuse them or even just make mistakes.

Having worked with both plucked-from-the-prairie wild mustangs and rehabbed TBs, I would say that the mustangs are overall much much easier to train and develop into calm, dependable riding horses. It's much easier to work from scratch with a blank slate than have to undo track training/abuse.

If you don't believe me I invite you to come to livestock markets and look around at teh broken down TBs. Most end up dead, a few end up as polo ponies (not a great life there either), and a few end up as riding horses. And of that last category, it's sad to see how many end right back up at the auction next year because the new owner couldn't or didn't deal with their new animal.

[smoogatz]

30. I've seen both.

Dog fighting is a brutal blood sport; the dogs are bred and trained to kill or be killed. Thoroughbred racing is, in its essence, about joy and life: extraordinary animal athletes doing what they're hard-wired to do. It's a shame that the horses are so over-bred and fragile, and I do think racing two-year-olds is a bad idea, but I don't think racing horses is inherently evil.

[Jersey Ginny]

90. I'm right there with ya

You're post was exactly right. Good sport, majestic athletes - both horse and jockeys. Start them too young and breeding's making them too fragile. However, I don't believe that any horse has beaten Secretariat's time at the Belmont and that was over 30 years ago.

[Runcible Spoon]

36. literally SICK.

considering: all of the jockeys with eating disorders and damaged organs from "making weight"(not to mention riding injuries), twisted insurance providers/vets/owners/breeders with blood literally on their hands from killing off non-profitable horses, degenerate gambling junkies. That's not even talking about teh actual horses themselves, running 4 years before their bones are fully knit, on histamines, steroids, antiinflammatories and worse to hide their sicknesses and illnesses so they can squeeze out more more race! :mad:

[harmonicon]

18. where are the criminal charges?

I want to know. Fucking bastards.

[dkf]

19. Chelsea was there. How awful for her.

[Runcible Spoon]

37. She got to see what she deserves to see.

Along with everyone else who supports this barbaric ritual. Should make her think twice about going to races. Maybe a little activism on her part? Too much to hope for?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. not to worry. They put a curtain up.

the save the sensibilities of the prim and proper audience.

I heard a hillaryian supporter on the air yesterday, claiming that the filly in the race would win, just like her candidate. hmm.

[BearSquirrel2]

72. I hope so (nm)

[BrokenSocialScene]

21. that's sad

at least it died doing what it loved? errr...

[BrklynLiberal]

23. Another victim of man's inhumanity to other creatures on this planet.

The human race continues to behave as if everything on this planet was put here merely to serve the needs and whims of mankind.

[KoKo]

24. We push our Atheletes too hard and breed our Animals for Tragedy...so sad...

words can't say how dreadful this is. What kind of breeding would cause both forelegs to break at the finish line. I'm glad I didn't watch it. Don't need anymore heartbreaking news than what's already out there. Sick sports world...sick...country is sick. Nevermind.

[mac2]

59. That steeple race in England seems brutal to me.

Horses fall all over the place as they try to jump those hedges, water, etc.

[newfie11]

120. I believe all those horses have to be over 5 years old

[AnnieBW]

26. The poor thing

She ran her heart out. May Epona take her into her bosom.

[DCofVA]

27. Thoroughbreds really do love to race

But, like I said, I just wish the industry would wait a couple of years till their bodies are sturdy enough to take the rigors of racing, before racing them.
Imagine though, a heaven for race horses, where all the great ones can race one another, Man O’ War, Secretariat, Ruffian, Barbaro, Eight Belles, and many others, all racing about the rolling green fields.
It gives me chill bumps.

[bitchkitty]

29. They might love to race,

but I don't think the horse would have chosen to run so fast and hard that her ankles broke.

[mac2]

58. Both ankles

[mac2]

50. They are beautiful animals.

[bitchkitty]

28. No possible way to save her?

How about not racing her in the first place?

I hate this shit. I hate rodeos and I hate anyone who thinks of an animal as recreation or a fashion accessory.

[Catch22Dem]

31. You may not believe this but

rodeos are different that horse racing. They showcase real-world skills used in working a ranch.

[StarryNite]

34. I hate rodeos.

I went once and saw a steer that had been roped fall to the ground and flip over so hard that it actually broke one of it's horns off. It was disgusting.

[mac2]

60. Yes...not to mention the humans who are injured.

[bitchkitty]

62. Since they made the choice to participate, I can't feel overly sorry for them.

When a horse walks up to me and says, hey, you know what? I'd like to run at breakneck speed until my legs give out! Then I'll support this inhumane practice.

[BrklynLiberal]

129. And how about the electrodes they use to "stimulate"

the horses and the bulls...?
Check out SHARK for all the details.

http://www.sharkonline.org/

[Runcible Spoon]

38. right..last time I checked there was no practical ranch application for..

cranking leather straps under the groins of horses and bulls and spurring them to buck wildly. IIRC, they actually train the cowhorses to NOT buck and rear and toss the cowboy. :eyes: I mean color me crazy, but I didn't think there was any practical ranch reason to ride bulls either :shrug: I guess the only other excuse is most rodeo is little more than showcasing fragile male egos?

[IntravenousDemilo]

93. Fragile male bodies, too.

At age 25, my bull-rider dad broke both of his hips falling from and being dragged by a bull. This quickly turned into arthritis, and he was all crippled up and bent after that -- his back, by the time he reached middle age, took the form of an inverted J. On a more positive note, since it happened in 1938, he wasn't fit to take part in the Second World War, which is a good thing, really, because if he was that accident-prone, he probably would have been killed somehow, and my four older brothers and I wouldn't have existed.

[bitchkitty]

40. Bullshit.

They are venues to torture animals, to force them to buck by means of painful straps. They are little better than bullfights.

I don't give a damn about ranch "skills" - especially since I do not eat meat.

[newfie11]

41. The flank straps are not painful

They are as annoying as a belt. If you want to see a real rodeo that is like life on a ranch go see a ranch rodeo.

[bitchkitty]

53. Again, BULLSHIT.

That's the stupidest thing I've read this week.

http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=69

"A terrified, screaming young horse burst from the chutes at the Can-Am Rodeo and, within five seconds, slammed into a fence and broke her neck. Bystanders knew that she was dead when they heard her neck crack, yet the announcer told the crowd that everything would “be all right” because a vet would see her.(9)

Incidents such as this are not uncommon at rodeos. By the end of one of the annual, nine-day Calgary Stampedes in Alberta, Canada, six animals were dead, including a horse who died of an aneurism and another who suffered a broken leg and had to be euthanized.(10) The following year, at the same event, six more animals died: five horses in the chuckwagon competition and a calf in the roping event.(11) In 2005, fear caused a stampede as horses destined for the Stampede were being herded across a bridge; some jumped and others were pushed into the river. Nine horses died.(12)
The Omak Stampede is an annual event in Washington that features the Wild Horse Race, in which tethered wild horses are released into the arena while cowboys try to mount and ride them (one horse died in 2005). The event culminates with the Suicide Race, in which horses are ridden at furious speeds down a steep hill and into the grandstand. That event killed three horses in 2004; 19 horses have lost their lives to the race in the past 20 years.(13)

During the National Western Stock Show, a horse crashed into a wall and broke his neck, and another horse broke his back after being forced to buck.(14) Dr. Cordell Leif told the Denver Post, “Bucking horses often develop back problems from the repeated poundings they take from the cowboys. There’s also a real leg injury where a tendon breaks down. Horses don’t normally jump up and down.”(15)"

More links:

http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000624

And here's a video for you:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XZxL7umkbRo&feature=related

I won't be going to any ranches to see their torture fests, thank you.

[BearSquirrel2]

73. I don't want to read anything from PETA ..

To PETA there are wild animals and ones they haven't euthanized yet. They can hardly blame others for killing animals when they pay squads of individuals to do just that. No rescue, just euthanasia. PETA are hypocrites of the highest order.

At least the rodeos allow the animals to express some part of themselves. PETA would just stick a needle in each and every one of their necks and kill them all.

[bitchkitty]

77. My god, you're really something.

Because PETA would rather euthanize feral cats, then it's okay to torture horses. Um, okay.

Ride 'em, cowboy! Just don't do it in my presence, or I'll put a strap across your balls, spurs in your ass, and yell YEEHAW as I use an electric prod to make you move.

[newfie11]

81. Now Miss Kitty

The flank strap is no where near the horses/bulls balls. Perhaps you need an anatomy lesson. The flank is the same as your waist.Again I say it is not painful. How close to a rodeo bronc have you ever been? Have you ever felt of a flank strap. It is only a wide leather belt!!!!!!!!!!

[bitchkitty]

82. I was talking about your balls, cowboy.

And you're really boring. You offer no facts or links to support your assertions that rodeos are humane. I've seen far more reports that rodeos are inhumane - in fact, I've seen NOTHING to prove that they are a humane sport.

You're like a Republican - obtuse.

[BearSquirrel2]

89. It's not humane ...

It's not humane to incite an animal to violence. But it's more humane to rile em up 3 nights a week than to should barbiturates into it's system and kill it.

PETA promotes animal welfare. But they aren't humane at all themselves. If there is a domestic animal in the world, PETA's solution is to kill it.

They make a big deal about shelters that have to CO2 the animals they cannot place. Hell, people commit suicide sitting in their cars breathing in CO2. The fact that shelters spend so much money trying to PLACE animals tells you why they cannot dedicate so many resources in disposing of the ones they cannot place despite their best efforts. PETA doesn't even try. They just kill them.

I don't want to here ANYTHING from PETA AT ALL. They are hypocrites and nutjobs.

[Critters2]

109. You can document your statements

I'd like to see some links, from credible organizations. So, that wouldn't include any of the bullshit from the "Center for Consumer Freedom".

[newfie11]

118. since PETA has been brought up here is more info on their good friends HSUS

I've always been surprised at how many dog lovers and kennel visitors I've spoken to have not understood the animal rights movement. Most had no idea about the goals of the HSUS. Here is something you should download and pass on to friends, puppy clients, neighbors, etc....

Seven Things You Should Know About H$U$
(The Humane Society of the United States)


1. H$U$ does not operate or have direct control over any animal shelter. Buried deep within H$U$'s website is a disclaimer noting that the group "is not affiliated with, nor is it a parent organization for, local humane societies, animal shelters, or animal care and control agencies. When H$U$ merged with the Fund for Animals they acquired some animal sanctuaries but those are usually full when someone tries to send an animal there - unless the animal comes with a big check.

2. Since its inception, H$U$ has tried to limit the choices of American consumers, opposing dog breeding, conventional livestock and poultry farming, rodeos, circuses, horse racing, marine aquariums, fur trapping and medical research.

3. H$U$ raises enough money to help finance animal shelters in every single state, with money to spare, yet it doesn't operate a single one anywhere. Instead, H$U$ spends millions on programs that seek to economically cripple meat and dairy producers; eliminate the use of animals in biomedical research labs; phase out pet breeding, zoos, and circus animal acts; and demonize hunters as crazed lunatics. H$U$ spends $2 million each year on their own travel expenses alone, just keeping its multi-national agenda going.

4. While most local animal shelters are under-funded and unsung, H$U$ has accumulated $113 million in assets and built a recognizable brand by capitalizing on the confusion its very name provokes. It is not a government agency, and in fact has sued the federal government in the past in a bullying effort to get their vegan way.

5. The current president of H$U$, Wayne Pacelle, is a former officer of PeTA. His, and other officers of H$U$ all bring in six figure salaries, plus “expenses” at the cost of millions donated to help animals. His famous quotes include: “One generation and out” – pushing the mandatory spay and neuter programs now being considered or acted upon in cities across America.

6. H$U$ is currently under investigation by the Attorney General of Louisiana in regards to the disposition of Katrina funds. H$U$ has been under investigation by the FBI for their links to domestic terrorist organizations such as the Animal Liberation Front (ALF). One of their current officers, John P. Goodwin is a former member of ALF and a convicted felon for acts of terrorism related to animals.

7. H$U$ consistently jumps on the bandwagon of any animal issue to raise funds even if they are NOT directly involved. Most recently they used the Michael Vick case as a major fund raiser, even though H$U$ had nothing to do with the investigation or care of the Vick dogs.


Sources:
www.consumerfreedom.com www.pet-law.com

www.naiaonline.org
__._,_.___

[bitchkitty]

132. Who funds these guys?

This is what they say on their site:

"Many of the companies and individuals who support the Center financially have indicated that they want anonymity as contributors. They are reasonably apprehensive about privacy and safety in light of the violence and other forms of aggression some activists have adopted as a "game plan" to impose their views, so we respect their wishes."

How convenient.

[bitchkitty]

124. Oh, my, you make a lot of sense.

It's far more humane to let a cat starve to death, miserable and cold and shelterless. What was I thinking?

Yes, torture is so much better than a painless death. My hat is off to you for showing me the light.

Do I really need a sarcasm icon here?

[BearSquirrel2]

133. Rodeo animals aren't generally tortured ..

You don't know what torture is. Those animals are likely mildly abused. Don't forget they need them to perform. You can't torture an animal and expect it to be lively.

So yeah, better mild abuse than being killed.

[bitchkitty]

134. Oh, well see - there's something else I didn't realize.

If it weren't for rodeos, all those horses would be dead. Thanks for setting me straight! I think I'll go out and see if I can't find a nice whip for my dog - I don't want him to die on me! I won't hit him hard enough to kill him, so it's not torture. It's only mild abuse.

Sleep well?

[BearSquirrel2]

135. I don't hit my dog ...

I don't hit my dog. But if I ever passed and he was left behind, I would certainly prefer that someone hit him with a switch occasionally rather than putting him down.

And for the record, look up what happens in the horse meat industry. Horses that cannot be auctioned off go to Mexican slaughterhouses where they are lanced repeatedly with a knife on a hook as they attempt to severe their spine.

A rodeo isn't a slaughterhouse. People who choose to work with animals typically like the animals and care for them decent. A broncho cannot buck well if they are malnourished or badly abused. So yeah, a hand might hit an ornery animal. At the end of the day, they will be fired if they do harm to them. It's not a slaughterhouse where all the animals are going to die anyway.

[newfie11]

116. Hey Bitchy I don't have balls, I am a woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bitchkitty]

128. That's too bad. I hate to think I share a gender with you. n/t

[lancer78]

106. PETA

People Eating Tasty Animals.

[Thothmes]

123. ar "People Embarrassing the Tidewater Area"

Their headquarters is in Norfolk, VA

[Critters2]

108. "Express some part of themselves"

Oh, right. The part of animals that needs expression with the help of electric cattle prods. And your statements about PETA killing animals are bullshit and I think you know it.

You want the truth about rodeos...here ya go: http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000349

[newfie11]

80. Well it is obvious you do not go to rodeos

It is a good thing you don't. Just continue to live in you world.
I have 50 years of attending rodeos and during that time I have see 1 calf that had a broken neck. That was back in the early 50's and things have changes since then.
I will continue with my life and you do the same.

[bitchkitty]

83. Karma's a bitch. I hope you're reborn as a cow. n/t

[newfie11]

117. There you go showing your stupidity

Bulls are ridden, steers are roped. Steers to enlighten you are neutered bulls. I am sure you find that very bad also. COWS are not there.

Do you have any idea of the value of these animals. The rough rodeo stock can sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

No you don't. I forgot how illiterate, you are.

[bitchkitty]

126. Idiotic. You know nothing of my literacy - but I will tell you this.

I know when and where to place a comma.

So let's see - your reasoning is that since these animals are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, that it's okay to torture them. I mean, since you paid for them and all.

Shame.

[Critters2]

107. I'm always amused by people who tell which torture devices are

or are not painful to an animal. Unless you're the animal you can't know that the straps aren't painful. I say we err on the side of caution and not use the damn things.

[newfie11]

121. Does your belt hurt you?

I am always amazed how people who have no knowledge can come up with an uninformed decision and feel it is the truth. The horse/bull has the flank strap on for the 8 second ride plus however long it takes for the rider to get on.

[Runcible Spoon]

39. Well there was some weak defense on a few other threads...

but thankfully the vast majority of DU sees the horror and greed of this sport and the damage is has done to so many horses AND people. For those of you who wisely shut the fuck up about your defense of the state of racing, I truly hope in my heart you enlighten yourself and stop supporting the industry until drastic changes are made for the welfare of the horses AND the jockeys!

[lonestarnot]

46. And the nasty barn conditions, bathroom facilities, and living conditions.

[mac2]

49. Bring on the hearings and do your own policing horse

people. This seems to be a problem.

[dropkickpa]

52. Just imagine

How exciting a race with *fully mature* thoroughbreds would be. The risks would be greatly lessened, and the horses would have had years to grow into their strength and ability. Watching babies do this is not exciting in the least, but it is sickening.

Not to mention, you'd probably have a much better predictor of skill and ability breeding true, and time to remove unsound animals from the breeding pool (where undesirable traits such as weak ankles, etc, would have been made obvious by race time). I don't think a 2 year-olds performance is a good enough predictor a positive contribution to the breed gene-pool.

[mac2]

57. Maybe Ms. Marble can solve this case.

Or someone similar.

[The Stranger]

63. Finished.

I quit being a race horse fan after Barbaro. I began to learn more about the sport.

And now I am finished with it.

[StarryNite]

64. Me too.

:cry:

[mac2]

76. Even finished wanting/fighting to stop the horrible practices?

[Triana]

67. I do NOT approve of animals being USED FOR HUMAN profit or entertainment

PERIOD.

:mad:

[CANDO]

84. Hillary's endorsement, no doubt...

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[mac2]

88. Or because of Hillary's endorsement eh?

[customerserviceguy]

95. Why can't rich bastards

just be content to bet on ping-pong balls in lottery games, rather than abuse animals for "sport"? This is just a few degrees away from cockfighting.

[TaffyMoon]

97. Dear Eight Belles: R.I.P.

[Duppers]

110. PETA requests that Eight Belles jockey Gabriel Saez be suspended

NORFOLK, Va. (AP) -- People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is seeking the suspension of Eight Belles' jockey after the filly had to be euthanized following her second-place finish in the Kentucky Derby on Saturday...

PETA faxed a letter Sunday to Kentucky's racing authority claiming the filly was "doubtlessly injured before the finish" and asked that Saez be suspended while Eight Belles' death is investigated.

"What we really want to know, did he feel anything along the way?" PETA spokeswoman Kathy Guillermo said. "If he didn't then we can probably blame the fact that they're allowed to whip the horses mercilessly."

Eight Belles trainer Larry Jones said the filly was clearly happy when she crossed the finish line.
...

Guillermo said if Saez is found at fault, the group wants the second-place prize of $400,000 won by Eight Belles to be revoked.

Saez, a 20-year-old Panama native, was riding in his first Kentucky Derby. He frequently rides for Jones.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/05/04/bc.rac.peta.eightbelles.ap/index.html?cnn=yes





No more, no more racing 3 year olds.

[mac2]

115. I have to agree with PETA regarding reforms for racing.

The radio news said they owner did not blame the jockey. You have an expensive horse and it falls after the race ruining it and you point no blame on the jockey or anything else? I'd like to know what the problem was in his mind?

[doodadem]

122. This is ridiculous

This jockey rode an excellent race on this mare--whom I was rooting for, as the only filly in the race, and like my mare, named Belle. The jockey has said, he felt nothing until the filly crossed the finish line. The minute he felt her take a wrong step, he pulled her up.
If anyone is to blame in this particular incident, I would look at the trainer. I would think, if the horse was working on stress fractures, he'd have felt some heat in her legs, and had her ultrasounded. She would have been too valuable not to have been pulled from the race.

I have very mixed feelings about the Derby. I am a Louisville native, and grew up with the race.
As a horse-crazy kid, I've slept overnight at the front gates to be among the first in the infield. I never knew I could miss big old Derby parties of barbecue and volleyball and watching the races on tv so much until I moved to Calif.--where it's all about Cinco de Mayo.

The tradition for the Derby is incredible. I still tear up hearing the strains of "My Old Kentucky Home" starting to be played on tv. Derby week in Louisville is one fun raucous race after another--hot-air balloon races, steamboat races, rat races, waiters with loaded trays racing down the street, and our favorite, the Mini-Marathon which my husband and I used to run. It's a half-marathon that finishes on the Churchill Downs track.

On the other hand, I am a horse owner, and ride/compete in dressage. The other posters are correct in saying TB's are raced much too young. At two years, they have definitely not finished growing (which they do until 6 yrs.), and their joints have not "closed" yet. Most horses that are started responsibly are "backed" at 3 years by someone light weight who knows what they're doing, and only taught the basics--go, whoa, right, left. They are then turned back out for a year to mature both physically and mentally, until re-starting their education at approx. 4 years.

Having lived in both Louisville and Cincinnati, we had tracks all around us. I can definitely state that I had a number of friends and acquaintances who went to the track, and picked up very nice TB's when they were finished racing to do dressage, jumping, and eventing. This was especially true for folks that couldn't afford to buy a warmblood, as you can get TB's sometimes for just a few hundred bucks that way (or used to be, a little bit more than what they could be sold to slaughter.) Now, with all of the horse slaughterhouses finally closed in the U.S. last year, their fates are more uncertain. I've heard even some horse lovers, such as my farrier, saying it was a mistake to close the slaughterhouses because now you have a bunch of horses that are simply starving to death. Even worse, they are being shipped to slaughterhouses in Mexico and Canada, that are much more inhumane than ones here ever thought about. A good place to read up about all of this, and the legislation still up for debate can be found on the Humane Society's website.

PETA does some good work, but like some of the folks on DU, can also be very misguided in some areas. They don't believe anyone should have pets, or "own" any other kind of animal. Well, sorry, but you can't just wipe out thousands of years of domestication on these animals and return them to the wild. It's simply not practical. And I know for sure that my horses, miniature donkeys, pygmy goats, cats, dogs, chickens, geese, and ducks would quickly starve, get injured, or eaten. Here, they are well taken care of, receive regular veterinary care, and actually seem to enjoy their work. They certainly know they are well-loved, and respond in kind.