Chavez ridicules Interpol report on rebels

[cal04]

Source: Associated Press

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is denouncing as "ridiculous" an Interpol report on documents that Colombia says were retrieved from the computers of slain rebels.

Chavez says a "show of clowns" has surrounded the announcement by the international police agency that it found no evidence of tampering with the computers.

Colombia maintains the documents suggest close links between the rebels and the Venezuelan government.

Chavez responded to a question on the matter at a news conference on Thursday denouncing what he called disinformation by a "media dictatorship."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080515/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_chavez_interpol

[Andrushka]

1. Interpol's press release

stated:

"INTERPOL's report also emphasized that the remit of its technical examination was not to evaluate the accuracy or the source of the exhibits’ content."
http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2008/PR200817.asp

So, in other words, they could have been given a laptop with any old shit on it. All they had to do is verify that there was no "tampering."

Guess if it was put there in the first place by the Colombians, that would be pretty much guaranteed!

"However, between 1 and 3 March, direct access to the seized computer exhibits by Colombia's first responder anti-terrorist unit in order to view and download their contents did not follow internationally recognized principles in the handling of electronic evidence under ordinary circumstances."

:eyes:

Go to BoRev.Net for the "celebration" of Laptop Day. It's all you need to read: http://www.borev.net/

(on edit: HTML formatting)

[Bacchus39]

2. Interpol: Colombia has real rebel data

"We are absolutely certain that the computer exhibits that our experts examined came from a FARC terrorist camp," said Interpol's secretary general, Ronald Noble, adding: "No one can ever question whether or not the Colombian government tampered with the seized FARC computers."

Colombian commandos recovered the three Toshiba Satellite laptop computers, two external hard drives and three USB memory sticks after destroying the rebel camp just across the border in Ecuador. FARC foreign minister Raul Reyes and 24 others were killed in the March 1 raid.

Chavez has mocked Colombia's revelations about "the supposed computer of Raul Reyes" and questioned how a computer could survive a bombardment. He denies arming or funding the FARC, though he openly sympathizes with Latin America's most powerful rebel army.

Venezuela's embassy in Washington accused U.S. and Colombian officials of using the Interpol report to "spread the most reckless and irresponsible accusations" in a coordinated campaign that "closely resembles the steps usually taken by the Bush administration in order to generate ... instability and wars in other countries."

But Interpol was emphatic that the documents are authentic, and said the computers were found in metal cases that protected them during the raid.

"Mr. Reyes is now dead. But they were definitely his computers, his disks, his hardware," Noble said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080515/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_rebel_computers;_ylt=Am3ow.Xvwsun.q5md6uOMQm3IxIF

[northzax]

5. how it could survive a bombardment?

anyone notice that nasa just recovered data from a hard drive that was on the Columbia and spent two years sitting in a field in Texas? unless there was a strong electro-magnetic field involved, data is recoverable.

[hack89]

6. People and things survive bombardment all the time

if it wasn't a direct hit then the fact that it survived is no surprise.

[arikara]

40. Of course it could survive intact AND untampered with

after all, the passport of one of the hijackers was found in the rubble of the trade towers. War is peace, up is down, the government and corporate media don't lie.

:rofl:

[hack89]

42. People will believe what the want to believe

this is one of those issues that no one will agree on.

[Rage for Order]

43. Yeah, there's no way it could've survived the bombardment

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080509/ap_on_hi_te/shuttle_recovered_data

Data from Columbia disk drives survived the shuttle accident
Fri May 9, 2008

Jon Edwards often manages what appears impossible. He has recovered precious data from computers wrecked in floods and fires and dumped in lakes. Now Edwards may have set a new standard: He found information on a melted disk drive that fell from the sky when space shuttle Columbia disintegrated in 2003. "When we got it, it was two hunks of metal stuck together. We couldn't even tell it was a hard drive. It was burned and the edges were melted," said Edwards, an engineer at Kroll Ontrack Inc., outside Minneapolis. "It looked pretty bad at first glance, but we always give it a shot."

Edwards had reason for pessimism. Not only were the drive's metal and plastic elements scorched, but the seal on the side that keeps out dirt and dust also had melted. That made the drive vulnerable to particles that can scratch the tiny materials embedded inside, destroying their ability to retain data in endless 0s or 1s, depending on their magnetic charge.

However, at the core of the drive, the spinning metal platters that actually store data were not warped. They had been gouged and pitted, but the 340-megabyte drive was only half full, and the damage happened where data had not yet been written.

Edwards attributes that to a lucky twist: The computer was running an ancient operating system, DOS, which does not scatter data all over drives as other approaches do. After cleaning the platters with a chemical solution, Edwards used them in a newly built drive. The process — two days from start to finish — captured 99 percent of the drive's information.


more at the link

The captured laptops probably weren't running DOS, but the point is that if one can retrieve information from a disc drive involved in a space shuttle break up, it's not that far fetched to think that data and disc drives could also survive nearby artillery explosions.

[arikara]

45. Its not only about surviving physical damage

its actually more about the tampering.

[Bacchus39]

7. correct, only a nuke woud have vaporized the material

and nobody is accusing Colombia of dropping a nuke on Ecuador

[Flanker]

10. They were "untouched"

[Bacchus39]

11. they were.......

"Interpol addressed Chavez charges that no computer could have survived the bombardment by showing photographs of metal cases that protected them during the raid."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080515/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_rebel_computers;_ylt=Akn_tvKPbS6ZZw3Te1vMgui3IxIF

got any more pics????

[Judi Lynn]

12. It's been described as ten 500 pound "smart bombs" in a small area.

You'd think that woulda scuffed them up a bit!

[Andrushka]

13. Riiight

And they know because the user name was "Raul Reyes" no doubt.

:rofl:

[AlphaCentauri]

15. Now can we discuss Uribes lies?

where are the evidence that everybody else is a member of the FARC except him?

[Igel]

32. Sometimes a partial quote is a lie.

"Other key findings confirm that the Colombian Judicial Police computer forensic experts followed internationally recognized principles in the handling of electronic evidence from the time they received the exhibits on 3 March 2008. However, between 1 and 3 March, direct access to the seized computer exhibits by Colombia's first responder anti-terrorist unit in order to view and download their contents did not follow internationally recognized principles in the handling of electronic evidence under ordinary circumstances. INTERPOL's experts verified that this direct access and downloading had no effect on the content of any of the user files on the eight seized computer exhibits."

So they didn't follow procedure. However, this had no effect on the contents--they merely didn't follow procedure.

But "INTERPOL's report also emphasized that the remit of its technical examination was not to evaluate the accuracy or the source of the exhibits’ content" seems a well-grounded comment. Interpol isn't saying that what the documents say is accurate--they have no where of knowing. They also don't know if the documents' purported source is as indicated, either by the Colombians or the documents themselves--neither hinting there's doubt nor dispelling doubt. Just that the Colombians didn't alter the documents.

[Andrushka]

51. And sometimes, not telling the whole story

gives other posters the chance to do this:

"Using their forensic tools, they (the Interpol experts) found a total of 48,055 files for which the timestamps indicated that they had either been created, accessed, modified or deleted as a result of the direct access to the eight seized exhibits by Colombian authorities between the time of their seizure on 1 March 2008 and 3 March 2008 at 11:45 a.m.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42391

"So they didn't follow procedure. However, this had no effect on the contents--they merely didn't follow procedure," huh?

Ouch! You may want to actually consider the whole story before taking someone to task here.

:evilgrin: :rofl:

[Joe Chi Minh]

3. If the Nobel Prize committee is so political, how political do you imagine

Interpol would be? The notion that it would be politically neutral becomes more ludicrous each day. (No pun on Noble was intended).

[Judi Lynn]

9. Nobel Prize to Henry Kissinger? Whaaaa?

Perfectly natural to give this guy a Peace Prize
if you're insane!



KISSINGER WATCH
http://www.icai-online.org/45365%2CIndex.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/International_War_Crimes/International_War_Crimes.html

[fascisthunter]

22. Bingo!

[ohio2007]

53. Al Gore got a peace prize,beating out an old woman for his box office movie

http://current.com/items/88949622_a_woman_who_saved_2_500_children_in_the_warsaw_ghetto_during_wwii_holocaust_hero_dies_at_98

both nominated the same year........

it's politics based on a gunpowder manufacturer

[bluesmail]

4. When I read INTERPOL I automatically think CORRUPT.

Based on it's own corrupt past.

[Robbien]

8. So true. The terms corruption and interpol are interchangeable

No wonder Bush Admin had to go all the way over to the Interpol to find someone to back up his stance on this propaganda.

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. I know zilch about its corrupt past, but would be surprised if it were not,

to say the least.

At every level of the system, law and order, after all, is defined and dispensed by the power people in furtherance of their own perceived best interests, not the general public's; least of all is it ordained and dispensed by the characteristically virtuous, although of course there are good people in the system, in spite of all. And what a good job that's the case.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Peace Patriot]

16. "...48,055 files...had either been created, accessed, modified or deleted..."

"Using their forensic tools, they (the Interpol experts) found a total of 48,055 files for which the timestamps indicated that they had either been created, accessed, modified or deleted as a result of the direct access to the eight seized exhibits by Colombian authorities between the time of their seizure on 1 March 2008 and 3 March 2008 at 11:45 a.m.

"The actual seizure of the eight computer exhibits occurred between 5:50 a.m. and 7:50 a.m. (local time at the place of seizure, GMT -5:00) on Saturday, 1 March. However, it was not until more than 48 hours later that the eight seized exhibits were given to the computer forensic specialists of the Colombian Judicial Police," the report goes on to say.

"Access to the data contained in the eight FARC computer exhibits between 1 March 2008, when they were seized by Colombian authorities, and 3 March 2008 at 11:45 a.m., when they were turned over to…the Colombian Judicial Police, did not conform to internationally recognised principles for handling electronic evidence by law enforcement.

"When law enforcement directly accesses seized electronic evidence without first making physical images of the data, such access leaves traces of the relevant law enforcement officer’s accessing and viewing of the evidence.

"Direct access may complicate validating this evidence for purposes of its introduction in a judicial proceeding, because law enforcement is then required to demonstrate or prove that the direct access did not have a material impact on the purpose for which the evidence is intended," the report adds.

(MORE)

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42391

-------

"...48,055 files...created, accessed, modified or deleted..."

Tell me why any files in these computers would be deleted. Therein may lay the key to this bullshit--IF the computers in fact belonged to Raul Reyes. What did Reyes know about Uribe (the Medellin Cartel's go-to guy, in his early career) and his death squad pals? Is it a mere coincidence that, just before this Interpol report was released (with another, "confidential" report for the Colombia government's eyes only, by the way), Uribe extradites a number of his righwing paramilitary accusers to the U.S.--and the Bush Dept. of Justice--on drug trafficking charges (a move to shut them up?)? Prosecutors in Colombia are investigating Uribe on death squad/drug trafficking charges, and over 50 of his political cohorts are under investigation, indicted or in jail for such crimes.

DELETED files. Why? Was there content in the computers that Uribe did not want Interpol (or anyone else) to know?

--------

On another point, this Interpol report has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with the CONTENT of the computer files. They used non-Spanish speakers for the examination!

"...the commission was made up of forensic experts from Australia and Singapore who do not speak or read Spanish, 'which helped to eliminate the possibility that they might be influenced by the content of any data they were examining,' according to the report."

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42391

Of course, that is if you believe this Interpol statement--that they didn't look at the content. They're SPIES, for crissakes. There may be reasons why they were so careful to use non-Spanish speakers --so the actual examiners couldn't make sense of what was created or modified or the CONTEXT of deletions. Another reason could be so that Interpol has deniability about content that indicts Uribe or the corrupt, murderous, drug trafficking people he runs with. Surely Raul Reyes would have had some info and opinions about his criminal adversaries in the Colombian government and military.

[Sweet Pea]

23. "Tell me why any files in these computers would be deleted."

Are you serious? Why would anyone delete a file? Is that what you are asking?

Are you freaking serious? Is that a serious question?

I am choking on my corn flakes right now. That's freaking hilarious!

You must think Reyes is so fricking perfect that he never EVER has to delete files. EVER.

*choke*

[AlphaCentauri]

24. What about to delete evidences that would implicate Uribes government

[Sweet Pea]

25. Fine!

But don't sit there are wave a red flag because someone found a computer that had FILEDS DELETED!

My God...that is still the funniest thing I have ever read here!

Stop the presses!!! We found DELETED files on a laptop!!! Alert the media!

[ronnie624]

30. "Using their forensic tools

they (the Interpol experts) found a total of 48,055 files for which the timestamps indicated that they had either been created, accessed, modified or deleted as a result of the direct access to the eight seized exhibits by Colombian authorities between the time of their seizure on 1 March 2008 and 3 March 2008 at 11:45 a.m.

[killbotfactory]

34. Wouldn't that be evidence of tampering?

[ronnie624]

52. It certainly would.

And notice how the corporate 'news' sources continue to claim that "it (INTERPOL report) found no evidence of tampering with the computers". This bald faced lie clearly illustrates the degree of collusion between the media owners and the policy making establishment in Washington.

[YankmeCrankme]

37. If you read more closely you'll see that the deletions occurred after seizure.

Now do you understand the impact of deleting, modifying or otherwise tampering with the files on the hard drive?

[thunderdog]

17. Chavez ridicules anyone who disagrees with him.

And his reference to a "media dictatorship" is priceless. :rofl:

[dipsydoodle]

18. A joke perhaps ?

Please elaborate especially on the subject of "media dictatorship" given that Venezualas' media is largely right wing owned.

[Andrushka]

19. Er,

after you have picked yourself up laughing on the floor there by yourself, you may want to actually inform yourself about Venezuelan media ownership.

[Joe Chi Minh]

35. When someone is manifestly in the right, although on one level what he is exposing may

be the stuff of nightmares, on another level, he cannot do so without seeming to deride its authors; because the subject matter is, in that aspect, inherently laughable.

Having truth on your side is a major credibility asset, when the falsehood of an attempted rebuttal of it is obvious to a fair-minded person. YOU LOSE!

[EFerrari]

47. It's accurate. n/t

[Dhalgren]

20. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. The US is instigating

another attempt at ousting Chavez. Will Uribe be stupid enough to be the US puppet in a war against half of South America? Because if Columbia attacks Venezuela, there would be at least half a dozen SA states join with Venezuela against any aggression...

[fascisthunter]

21. Caught NPR Pushing this BS

Ever since they went more private, I think in 1998, they have really been a dubious source for info. Sad....

[Zorro]

26. NPR went private in 1998?

Care to elaborate on that carefully researched statement of fact?

[fascisthunter]

27. To You? Why... all you do spread propaganda so now

I have to be straight with the likes of you. I am being straight. Do your own research, neocon...

PS - you been put on ignore. Don't expect any chit chat from me...

[Zorro]

28. So you've got nothing

to back up your assertion. Figures.

And you've put me on ignore? Boo hoo hoo.

Guess you don't like your juvenile attempts to spread FUD challenged.

[ohio2007]

54. thats how fascist hunters operate

caught in a govt funded National Publis Radio lie. NPR still holds those annual public pledge drives......kinda doubt few but the richest foundations donate though ;)

BINGO !
Thats the facists angle on how the evil public radio support is controlled by evil big buisness

[ronnie624]

56. fascisthunter is not lying.

He said, "Ever since they went more private...", and he is correct.

Revenue gains seen in merger of sales teams

In a bid to bring more corporate underwriting into public broadcasting, NPR and WGBH are birthing a new sales unit to sell a larger and more diverse inventory of options — national, multimarket, local, radio, TV, website and more.

They’ll combine NPR’s national underwriting sales team with a purchase announced Sept. 11 — National Public Broadcasting LLC, a privately owned firm that arranges spot underwriting for national companies on selected stations. The new rep firm’s inventory also will include NPR.org, PBS.org and websites of dozens of stations.

<http://www.current.org/funding/funding0717npb.shtml>


Slate, NPR Partnership Could Be More Big Media Than Public Radio

When National Public Radio announced a deal to co-produce a new radio show, "Day to Day," with Slate.com, NPR called it an "historic collaboration." This would be the first time in its 33-year history that NPR co-produced a show with another commercial media enterprise. While online media fans may find comfort in one of its own scoring such a prestigious show with NPR, media watchdogs could be concerned.

The problem? NPR's deal with a Microsoft-owned publication brings up possible conflicts on Microsoft coverage (or lack thereof), as do the funding of NPR by Microsoft and by Chairman Bill Gates' charitable foundation. Plus, the NPR-Slate partnership is far more than just a radio show. The non-profit and for-profit entities will combine to offer cross-media advertisements and underwriting in the future, a deal that smells much more like Big Media than public radio.

<http://www.ojr.org/ojr/glaser/1054676989.php>


It takes no more than a few minutes worth of effort before you call someone a liar and make fool of yourself.

[fascisthunter]

29. ahhhhh... that Felt Good

Now for those who really care:

http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/02/npr1/index1.html

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/02/28/lydon/index.html

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2000/04/11/radio/index.html

http://www.salon.com/media/1997/11/10media.html

[Zorro]

38. So where's the beef?

Private = public only to brain dead Republicans.

Are you insinuating that NPR is controlled by private corporations promoting their agendas because it accepts corporate funding?

Oh, I forgot. You've got me on ignore. BTW, that's the root of the word ignorant.

[fascisthunter]

39. I'm Sorry... did somebody say something?

awwwwww

[Zorro]

41. Gotcha

You either lied about putting me on ignore, or can't figure out how to use the ignore function.

Both are probably true.

[SpikeTss]

48. About the laughable 'NPR news'

Do you have seen this clip? You're definitely not alone with your thoughts about them:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uLaP_-KXPDY

[DU GrovelBot]

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This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

[Igel]

36. At least IHT was nice enough to remove the abusive language.

Chavez: ' "Este señor Noble, que es innoble, es un policía gringo, un policía corrupto, inmoral que aplaude a unos asesinos... Es un vagabundo internacional, creo que tenemos que revisar la Interpol, qué es eso, si vale la pena estar ahí. Aquí somos gente seria", señaló en una rueda de prensa en la que dijo que respondía al "show de la Interpol con otro show".'

"This Mr. Noble--who's innoble--is a gringo cop, a corrupt cop, an immoral person who applauds killers.... He's an international vagabond; I think we have to review Interpol, what it is, if it's worth the bother of keeping it. We're serious people here," he said at a press conference at which he said he was answering the "Interpol show with another show".

Granted the pun is puerile, but still it achieves its speaker's usual lofty standards.

Yeah, I know that some will probably argue that "gringo" is a term of affection--just like "innoble", "corrupt" and "immoral" are compliments. But it draws group boundaries nicely. 'You're Latinos, my people--what are you doing even believing what an outsider, this gringo, says about one of your own?' Eh.

[EFerrari]

46. Gringo in that context is most certainly not a term of affection

but more a fingering of a culprit. Most people in Latin America know that US policy has not been their friend. And Venezuelans know it more immediately since the attempted, CIA backed coup.

[UTUSN]

44. ...

[davidinalameda]

50. Mickey Chavez?

[ohio2007]

55. Hey, Curious George is also a trademark infringement

;)

[bitchkitty]

49. So, let me get this straight...

The Miracle Laptop (doubly so - made it through the bombs and the devastation unscathed, and was fortuitously discovered by the Columbia soldiers, who were of course much too busy shooting people in the head to plant anything) was not tampered with. Oh, well - that explains everything! What brand of laptop? Must have been a good one.

Thank goodness for the mainstream media! :sarcasm:

[JohnnyCougar]

57. Even if they contents of the laptop are real (which is doubtful)...

Colombia is still lying about what the documents actually say. They've been caught red-handed in three lies about these documents already, and it looks like they are making more false claims this time around.

[Judi Lynn]

58. Excellent observations made in a post by DU'er magbana:

REBELION: INTERPOL REPORT confirms computers WERE manipulated! And the press is manipulating us.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x4331

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnie624]

60. A very good read.

Latin American history professor Greg Grandin goes further. He believes "Almost all of Latin America and most of the world would take Venezuela's side in this dispute. Any move (against the Chavez government) would further isolate the United States in a region where it has been hemorrhaging influence."


Heh heh heh. They know what's up. They aren't fooled by the crude American propaganda-for-simpletons.

I was reading the thread about the violation of Venezuelan airspace. I noticed the Uribe butt muncher's rusty gears were turning.

[Judi Lynn]

61. Here's more on that same subject, which also mentions Greg Grandin!

Spinning the News - The FARC-EP Files, Venezuela and Interpol

by Stephen Lendman

Global Research, May 19, 2008

First some background. On March 1, the Colombian military (with US Special Forces help) illegally attacked a FARC-EP rebel camp inside Ecuador. US satellite telephone tracking located the site. Washington signed off on the mission. Over 20 people were killed, including 16 or more FARC-EP members while they slept. Key among them was Paul Reyes, the FARC-EP's second-in-command, key peace negotiator and public voice, and lead figure in the Chavez-led hostage negotiations with Colombia.

The action was a clear act of aggression and premeditated murder. It's not how the dominant media played it. Hostile verbal exchanges took place between Hugo Chavez and Ecuador's Raphael Correa on the one hand and Colombia's Alvaro Uribe and George Bush on the other. US presidential candidates, as expected, supported the White House and Bogota.

Tensions heightened further when Colombia's vice-president, Francisco Santos Calderon, revealed his nation's army recovered three laptops and other material at the FARC-EP camp with provocative evidence on their hard drives. He claimed it showed Chavez and Correa have links to the FARC-EP, and Venezuela provided weapons, munitions, and $300 million or so to the rebel group. In addition, the FARC-EP was accused of acquiring 50 kilograms (110 pounds) of uranium, that it wishes to sell it for a radioactive dirty bomb, it also sold 700 kilograms of cocaine for about $1.5 million, and more.

The story is preposterous, but the media grabbed hold of it. No evidence exists, so they invent it. In March, Colombian authorities asked Interpol to examine the computer files for authenticity. The organization released its report on May 15. On its web site, it states that Secretary General Ronald Noble "advised senior Colombian law enforcement officials that INTERPOL's team of forensic experts discovered 'no evidence of modification, alteration, addition or deletion' in the user files of any of the three laptop computers, three USB thumb drives and two external hard disks seized during a Colombian anti-narcotics and anti-terrorist operation on a FARC camp on 1 March 2008."

More:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9016

Thanks, ronnie624.