Venezuela says US plane violated its airspace

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuela's foreign minister says it will summon the U.S. ambassador to explain an alleged incursion by a U.S. military plane in Venezuelan airspace.

Venezuelan Defense Minister Gen. Gustavo Rangel Briceno says the U.S. Navy plane was detected in Venezuelan airspace near the Caribbean island of La Orchila.

Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro says U.S. Ambassador Patrick Duddy is being called in to explain the incident on Saturday.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080519/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us_colombia

[muryan]

1. La Orchila being the home of

A large military base and a presidential retreat, Im not sure I buy the notion that they would just fly a plane into an area they know is being watched to get information much more easily gathered via satellite. But giving the kind of decision making displayed by this administration, I wouldn't be surprised

[Dogtown]

2. agent provocateur

Only reason is to provoke a response, escalate tension, and initiate hostilities.

[EFerrari]

7. It's just the ongoing campaign of provocation. n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. surPRIsE, surPRISE, surPRISE. as Gomer would say.

[maddezmom]

4. US official: Navy plane may have crossed Venezuelan airspace

WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. Navy plane apparently accidentally crossed into Venezuela's airspace Saturday night, triggering protests from that country, according to a U.S. defense official familiar with the report.

The S-3 Viking aircraft, based in Curacao, was on a training mission in international airspace near Los Roques Island, Venezuela, and experienced "intermittent navigational problems," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The aircraft is used for counter-narcotics missions. Navy crew on the S-3 reported they had a brief radio conversation with air traffic control personnel in Maiquetia, and believed that they had mistakenly flown into Venezuelan airspace, the official said.

Navy officials are investigating the incident to determine exactly what happened.

more:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNAHj12fby-XhTpfXA8HnSa5iILgD90OS2EO0

[shadowknows69]

5. Vikings have surveillance load outs don't they?

[struggle4progress]

25. "... US officials admitted the incident later on Monday ..."

US violates Venezuela's airspace
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/1478/53/

[Robbien]

6. Busy day Saturday. AP reported 60 Colombian soldiers illegally entered Venezuela

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Venezuela on Saturday accused 60 Colombian soldiers of illegally entering its territory, as tensions over Venezuela's alleged effort to aid Colombian guerrillas swirl.

Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro said 60 Colombian troops had been intercepted Friday in Venezuela's western Apure state, about 875 yards from the nations' shared border.

In a written statement, Maduro asked Colombia's government to "immediately cease these violations of international rights."

Colombian President Alvaro Uribe on Saturday announced that he had asked his nation's army to investigate the charge. If true, Uribe vowed Colombia would apologize. "It's certain that we'll give an explanation," he said.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3-gy-m2ViT4af14BjcC-rOHaWrgD90NQ84G0


Something is up. US warplane and Colombian soldiers both illegally entering Venezuela territory on the same weekend.

[KaptBunnyPants]

32. It's starting. Again.

One last coup before November.

[MilesColtrane]

8. Just dropping off some CIA guys for a little vacation.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Hugo Chavez suddenly stricken ill with a mysterious disease after this.

Bush is all about revenge.

[BobbyVan]

9. Venezuela was recently caught red-handed supporting the FARC

Interpol verified the documents.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/latinamerica/la-fg-laptops16-2008may16,0,258771.story?track=rss

[Robbien]

10. If you had read deeper, Interpol verified nothing about Venezuela

It just said the tapes have not been tempered with.

Just more of the US propaganda campaign trying to ramp up US citizen's anger in order to justify Bush Admin's wet dream of going and dropping bombs on Venezuelan citizens.

[Judi Lynn]

12. It's always such a stupid mistake when people swallow the first thing they read from the corporate

media, isn't it?

Learning to grasp what one's reading is a necessary step of growing up.

These operations are always done in stages, layers, as they prepare the gullible, delusional, and willingly ignorant.

[Bacchus39]

13. yep, anything to distract from the issue of supporting the FARC

not that the US should be violating their airspace.

[heliarc]

14. And the Columbian government was caught red-handed...

"mishandling" the laptops from March 1st to March 3rd before Interpol could see them.

A lot of "mishandling" can be done in 2 days on a computer held by a country in league with the United States to discredit and destabilize the Venezuelan democracy.


http://insurreccion.org/node/16423

http://nacla.org/node/4673

[Judi Lynn]

16. Thanks for the links. n/t

[heliarc]

21. My pleasure.... yours are generally the best. nt

;-)

[Bacchus39]

17. Colombia never had to give the lap tops to INTERPOL now did they?

they did because they knew the lap tops and files were authentic. its just reinforces their case against Chavez.

[heliarc]

19. This is a case what?

That Venezuela helped to support the FARC? Assuming it's true, tell me why I should believe the Columbian Government... who continually use paramilitary organizations to terrorize the countryside? Why should I believe the US government... who have been engaged in supporting paramilitary groups to destabilize latin american democracies since the turn of the century (Iran-Contra, El Salvador, Chile, Argentina etc)? Here we have a case where hostage negotiations were sabotaged by the US and Columbian governments and they are trying to turn it into all out war to depose a democratically elected leader and you can't see the oil in their eyes?

[Bacchus39]

22. I am not aware of any country called "Columbia"

the FARC can simply release the hostages can they not? what needs to be negotiated by ColOmbia? why should I take any one seriously who can't spell the the name of the country they are accusing?

[heliarc]

27. Ah...

Pero "Columbia" es lo que llaman los gringos a el pais "Colombia"... Gringos como usted. Predoname. Lo siento mucho. Tiraste tanta mierda por la boca que tuve que considerar la gringues tambien. Dime. Cuantas veces has viajado a Colombia? Yo prefiero Cartagena a Medellin, pero bailan bien la cumbia por todo el pais...

Soy Chileno hue'on... entiendo mejor que usted lo que sucede en Latinoamerica.

[Bacchus39]

30. tanto el castellano como el ingles

tienes dificultades. Los gringos que dicen "Columbia" son los que no saben. cachay??

[heliarc]

38. Puede ser...

Pero fueron gringos y asesinos que hecharon a mis padres. Gringos y asesinos que hoy continuan la matanza en Colombia. My parents were exiled from Chile long before I could learn the language well... so maybe grammar isn't the substance of this discussion. I don't think it ever was.

Perhaps you should discuss substance and not spelling. This site is about democracy... not the lexicon.

But while we're at it "Cachay" has to be the biggest colloquialism out there (I've seen it spelled "cachai"). If you're giving me a hard time for the Anglo version of "Columbia" then maybe you should talk to the people in Spain (oh sorry España) about our Latin American Español. They complain all the time about something we don't even consider Castellano anymore. And half of those guys -- the ones in Barcelona-- say "Merci" when they want to say Muchas gracias.

But it sounds like you prefer an elitist conservatism of culture and langue, that excludes the displaced, miscegenized, marginalized and in your opinion "uneducated." So be it. I don't want to live in your world of perfect Castellano.

The Roman conquerers would have had a problem if someone called Bacchus "Dionysus" too... or is that "Dionysos." I don't know you'll find both in common usage. But I'll bet there were a few dorks who gave people a hard time about it just to skirt the real issues.

[Judi Lynn]

40. Very sorry your family has learned about this kind of policy "up close and personal."

This does give you depth, and value on Latin American matters, and you know it!

You're so right. You've probably noticed it's the lame posters who don't have much to stand on who take times to take cheap shots at other posters, rather than dealing directly with the facts.

It marks them as what they are.

[fascisthunter]

50. well done

[Judi Lynn]

23. I'm sure the guy follows Americans around correcting all of us who pronounce the word

"Columbia" when we say it!

You gotta figure a guy's really desperate when he takes such pleasure in attempting to correct DU'er after DU'er after DU'er who misspell the name of South America's current only fascist country.

[Bacchus39]

24. fascist, how so? yeah, I remember you couldn't spell it either

no, I'm delighted at watching Hugo trying to change the subject. when is the next "the US is going to invade Venezuela" speech going to come?

[Jazzgirl]

29. Why are you here??

All I ever read from you is crap attacks on people because they don't agree with your stand on "Colombia". Who are you?

[KaptBunnyPants]

33. Paid columbian agent.

[heliarc]

28. No lo hagas caso Judi...

Este gringo inutil ha pasado de tonto ya... ;-)

[heliarc]

20. Ecuador doesn't believe it.

"Foreign Minister Maria Isabel Salvador said in Paris that the files 'have no judicial validity for a very clear reason: The chain of custody of these computers has not been safeguarded.'"

Their border is not being respected by the Columbian military and US cohorts. Columbia and the US seem bent on disrespecting sovereign territory. How many times do the US and its Allies get to attack other countries before the world gets really pissed off at us and allies against us.

This is just another bald-faced provocation by US intelligence. US intelligence directed the attacks on Ecuador in order to connect (valid or not) FARC and Venezuela. It did so to draw out Venezuela and provoke war.

[SpiralHawk]

31. Put down that kool aid and back away slowly

Commander AWOL & the republicon homelader minions adhere to the occult, and rarely speak truth.

[JohnnyCougar]

34. Absolutely wrong.

Interpol did not verify what the documents said. They just said that some of the documents had been unaltered. Some of them had, however. And the problem is, the "verified" documents don't even say what Colombia says they say. Colombia has been busted lying about what the documents say four times already.

[fascisthunter]

49. Ahhh yes... spreading the Propaganda

[Andrushka]

53. Bullcrap

Read this and then tell us that they were "caught red handed":

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42391

"Interpol verified the documents" my ass.

[Judi Lynn]

11. Venezuela says US violated its airspace

Venezuela says US violated its airspace
May 20, 2008 8:27 AM

Venezuela accused the United States of violating its airspace around two small Caribbean islands over the weekend in what it said was a provocation coordinated with neighbouring Colombia.

The United States said it was looking into the allegation made by the anti-US government of President Hugo Chavez just two days after Venezuela accused troops from US ally Colombia of crossing its border.

"This is just the latest step in a series of provocations in which they want to involve our country," Defense Minister Gustavo Rangel said at a news conference.
(snip)

A US Navy warplane on Saturday entered the airspace around La Orchila and another island about 120 kilometres from the South American country's mainland, Rangel said.

La Orchila has a military base and a presidential residence and is well-known because Chavez was held prisoner there during a brief coup against him in 2002. Venezuela generally bans all but its military from flying over the island.

More:
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/536641/1788279

[Judi Lynn]

15. You know what winners Simon Romero & the NY Times have proven themselves to be on Latin America!

Here's their own custom spin on the airspace violation:

May 20, 2008
Venezuela Accuses U.S. of Violating Its Airspace
By SIMON ROMERO

CARACAS, Venezuela — Venezuela’s defense minister said Monday that an American fighter plane had violated Venezuelan airspace over the weekend, prompting the government here to summon the United States ambassador to explain the supposed incident and other recent statements about Venezuela by senior American officials.

The denunciation, issued on state television Monday morning, suggests that political relations between Venezuela and the United States might be set to deteriorate further after Washington explicitly sided with Colombia in a dispute over a trove of computer files that tie Colombia’s largest guerrilla group to Venezuela’s government.

Gen. Gustavo Rangel, the Venezuelan defense minister, said the authorities on Saturday detected an S-3B Viking aircraft piloted by United States Navy personnel over La Orchila, a Caribbean island with a Venezuelan military base. An exchange of words ensued, General Rangel said, and the plane departed in the direction of Curacao in the Dutch Antilles.

“We believe this action to be deliberate on the part of the North America Navy,” General Rangel said. “At this moment in time it is nothing but another link in the chain of provocations in which they are trying to involve our country.”

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/world/americas/20venez.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

[Judi Lynn]

18. Venezuela Says U.S. Military Plane Violated Airspace

Venezuela Says U.S. Military Plane Violated Airspace (Update1)

By Daniel Cancel and Matthew Walter

May 19 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuelan Defense Minister Gustavo Reyes Rangel Briceno said a U.S. military plane violated the South American country's airspace on May 17, and said the government is seeking an explanation.

A military plane was detected flying over the Venezuelan island of Orchila at 8:40 p.m. (9:10 p.m. New York time), Briceno told reporters today in Caracas. The pilot identified himself and said he had been conducting training exercises over Curacao and didn't realize he had entered Venezuelan airspace, the Venezuelan defense minister said.

Venezuela has asked U.S. Ambassador Patrick Duddy to provide an explanation for the unauthorized incursion, Briceno said. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has accused the U.S. of trying to provoke a war with Venezuela.

``It's hard to believe it was an accident, as the distance between Curacao and Orchila Island is significant,'' Venezuelan General Jesus Gonzalez Gonzalez told reporters today in Caracas.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=a_yvFo1Ax6_4&refer=latin_america

[Judi Lynn]

26. Anger as US jet strays into Venezuelan airspace

Anger as US jet strays into Venezuelan airspace

May 20, 2008 - 12:26PM

A United States navy maritime surveillance jet experienced "intermittent navigational problems" over the weekend and strayed into Venezuelan air space, officials have acknowledged.

The admission on Monday followed charges by Venezuela that a US military plane violated its airspace on Saturday and flew near two of its islands, including La Orchila, a military base and presidential retreat in the Caribbean.

"A US S-3 aircraft conducting counter-drugs operations lost navigational situational awareness causing it to fly into Venezuelan airspace off the mainland coast," the Joint Interagency Task Force South said in a statement.
(snip)

The S-3 Vikings were originally designed as an anti-submarine warfare aircraft, but are now used mostly for maritime surveillance and as an air refuelling plane.

However, some have been modified for electronic warfare and intelligence gathering.

AFP

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/anger-as-us-jet-strays-into-venezuelan-airspace/2008/05/20/1211182761285.html

[ohio2007]

35. The Navy S-3 Viking, used for counter-narcotics missions

They promptly responded and identified themselves as U.S. Navy, on a training mission in international airspace, and that a navigational error had possibly occurred," the official said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080519/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us_colombia


the spin from NYTimes;
snip
Gen. Gustavo Rangel, the Venezuelan defense minister, said the authorities on Saturday detected an S-3B Viking aircraft piloted by United States Navy personnel over La Orchila, a Caribbean island with a Venezuelan military base. An exchange of words ensued, General Rangel said, and the plane departed in the direction of Curaçao, in the Dutch Antilles.



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/world/americas/20venez.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

There are only a couple S3 squadrons still active in the US navy that seem to be looking for a purpose to keep Lockheed employees on the payroll

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/s-3.htm
Not exactly a slick looking U2 spy plane. Just sub hunter thats been downsized.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5b2_1209759273


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=686_1206042402

[Bacchus39]

36. its obviously the first step towards the US invasion that Hugo is predicting

70 people were murdered in Caracas over the weekend. Hugo is funding and covering-up his associations with the FARC. Time to go back to the anti-US well one more time.

[ohio2007]

37. But his FARC stooges are giving up, throwing in the towel after 30 years

It must be some very damaging and incriminating information on those hard drives. They say "knowledge is power" and rarely is the truth leaked to the public

[ronnie624]

39. Do you have a link

to a news item regarding the 70 murders in Caracas?

The "well" isn't really anti-US. The U.S. is a large nation, the people of which are being bamboozled by a criminal government and a complicit corporate media establishment, whose owners profit from militarist, interventionist policies. It's really more of a "well" of anti-interventionism by certain elements within our political system.

Decent, law abiding citizens have an obligation to petition their government for a change in policies that are harmful to other people in the world - thus ultimately harmful to ourselves (re: 'blow back' which resulted in 9/11) - and to speak out against them. It doesn't matter if these policies are the status quo and that they have been a part of how our government operates for a long time. They're wrong, and they must stop if we expect to cooperate with the rest of the world in solving the really big problems that threaten us all.

The fascist elements within our government must be purged, and this cannot be done through apathy and ignorance.


- A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. - Edward Abby

- The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs, is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato

- The media, far from being a conspiracy to dull the political sense of the people, could be viewed as a conspiracy to disguise the extent of political indifference. - David Riesman

- For most Americans the Constitution had become a hazy document, cited like the Bible on ceremonial occasions but forgotten in the daily transactions of life. - Arthur Schlesinger

- Anyone who tells you that "It Can't Happen Here" is whistling past the graveyard of history. There is no 'house rule' that bars tyranny coming to America. History is replete with republics whose people grew complacent and descended into imperial butchery and chaos. - Mike Vanderboegh

- ...So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men. - Voltaire


And I'm still waiting for you to post some evidence of Chavez's association with and covering up for the FARC, other than his negotiations for the release of hostages.

[Bacchus39]

41. links

http://www.eluniversal.com/2008/05/20/sucgc_art_ultimados-cinco-meno_869770.shtml

here is the last sentence: "Los pequeños fallecidos forman parte también de la cifra roja de fin de semana en la capital: 70 personas asesinadas." The dead small ones (the 5 children murdered) form part of the the bloody number during the weekend in the capital: 70 people assasinated.


you can go to the Latin American forum for the links on Chavez's connection to the FARC discovered by Colombia and bolstered by the INTERPOL confirmation of the computer files. These include the murder of 5 Ven. soldiers by the FARC, and the Ven. government covered it up and said the paras did it.

[Judi Lynn]

42. False positives in Colombia have even been reported by the Washington Posts, of all papers.

The Colombian military and the Colombian death squads have been destroying Colombian citizens, often after torture, and dressing them as FARC, or simply throwing down weapons from the "kit" they carry to mark them as the enemy. Apparently it's been done for at least as long as the YEARS it has been reported on Colombians.

It's an old trick with your preferred murderers.

[Bacchus39]

43. the FARC admitted it and gave Chavez an "oopsy"

the Ven government then said it was the paras. what do you think about the Venezuelan death squads?? do you support them??

[Judi Lynn]

44. Do you know exactly to what they were referring? No doubt they were focusing on yet another

Colombian death squad attack just like all the other ones they've been committing for a long time. Any DU'er can find more on this in research if he/she's interested.

Here's a very prominent example:

COLOMBIA'S PARAMILITARIES ACTIVE IN VENEZUELA

Apparently not satisfied with the havoc and death they have created
in Colombia, paramilitaries from that country are moving on
Venezuela. Venezuelan authorities have arrested at least 80
Colombian right-wing paramilitaries who were plotting to overthrow
constitutionally-elected President Hugo Chavez. Officials said they
captured 56 paramilitaries on a farm outside of Caracas early Sunday
and later caught another 30 who had fled to a mountainous region
south of the capital. Miguel Rodrmguez Torres, chief of police
intelligence said the group had totaled 130 and had been training
on the farm for about a month. He said that the paramilitaries had
planned to attack several military installations in Caracas and join
former coup leaders to attempt to foment an uprising. Torres said
that part of the plan would have been to assassinate President Hugo
Chavez.

In his weekly radio and television program "Als Presidente," Chavez
called the arrest "a coup against terrorism," and added that
authorities had known about the group's existence for about three
months. He said that terrorist groups and paramilitaries from
Colombia want to inject violence into Venezuela. "We have delivered
a blow against coup makers, the destabilisers and the terrorists, in
this unceasing struggle against terrorism and destabilization, and
against the enemies of the people and of democracy", declared
Chavez.

The first group of Colombian paramilitaries was captured Sunday on a
country estate near Caracas belonging to Robert Alonso, leader of
the opposition Democratic Coordination, according to the government
television station Venezolana de Televisisn. In a joint operation
Venezuelan security forces "succeeded in capturing more than 50
Colombian paramilitaries, clothed in battle dress, who were waiting
to receive arms before being transported to different locations in
the country", said Miguel Rodrmguez.

One of the prisoners, shown on Venezuelan television, told reporters
that the group was recruited in Colombia. He said that they intended
to attack a Venezuelan military base on Wednesday, the 12th.

The Ambassador of Venezuela in Bogota, Carlos Rodolfo Santiago,
blamed Venezuelan ex-president Carlos Andres Perez for planning a
coup d'etat by recruiting Colombian paramilitaries and dissident
Venezuelan military personnel. Santiago stated that intelligence
information indicates that a group of 1,500 AUC members have been in
Venezuela for the past 7 months as part of an attempt to overthrow
Chavez. He said that the captured paramilitaries are former
Colombian Army soldiers, and added that the possibility that they
received help from inside Colombia is being investigated. "They
themselves said that they all are former Colombian Army reservists.
Somebody must have helped them leave", he said. In a statement to
the press Colombia's ambassador to Venezuela, Mariangela Holgumn,
denied "emphatically that Colombia is involved in any sort of
destabilization of Venezuela". Colombian Ambassador, Mariangela
Holguin insists that the Colombian government cannot be blamed for
the presence of paramilitaries in Venezuela because it's Venezuela's
job to guard its borders.

http://www.blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/Week-of-Mon-20040510/001485.html

No doubt Venezuela will definitely be guarding its borders more closely now.

We've been hearing about these attacks for ages, unfortunately.

[ronnie624]

46. I ran his article through the Google translator.

It's about the 70 people killed in Caracas over the weekend.

Obviously he referenced it as an oblique slander of Hugo Chavez. I fail to understand how he regards this as a reflection on Chavez, as he never composes clear, concise arguments that support his position; only ad hominem attacks and links to articles in Spanish, from which one is presumably supposed to draw the same loose connections as he does.

Venezuela, no doubt, has had a high crime rate for a very long time, which is probably a result of the long running state of social injustice, and the need for so many over the years to move into the overcrowded barrios. It should be obvious to anyone that extreme poverty, injustice and desperation result in a high crime rate. The task of completely reversing these trends will not be accomplished overnight. It will no doubt take decades of hard work, especially with such powerful foreign interventionist forces arrayed against the government.

[Judi Lynn]

47. I didn't see his article, but I've heard Caracas has multiple mayors,

and multiple police chiefs, and I do recall that one of Caracas' mayors was a virulent enemy of Hugo Chavez. I'm sure he didn't contribute anything in his area which would enhance the national picture on crime, just for the hell of it.
He also was involved in taking down the only public tv station in Caracas, "Katia" tv, which was needed when the corporate tv stations blocked all news that Chavez had been kidnapped at gunpoint and taken from office during the coup.

Your reference to a long term crime rate is completely appropriate. I am reminded of a post by Alpha Centauri, which clearly discussed the fact that their accelerated crime rate is a "spill over" of the drug problem in Colombia:

AlphaCentauri (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-25-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Venezuela Crime in the 90's
The expansion of illicit drug production and transportation appeared to have the potential to disrupt Venezuelan internal security significantly in the 1990s. As the decade began, most illegal drug activity in Venezuela resulted from a spillover effect from Colombia, the world's leading distributor of cocaine. Venezuela's long Caribbean coastline and large expanses of sparsely populated territory made it attractive as a transshipment point for cocaine products in transit from Colombia to the United States. The gravity of the security situation along the western border was brought home to the Venezuelan public during the presidential election campaign of late 1988, when the media publicized an incident that took place on October 29 near the town of El Amparo along a tributary of the Rio Arauca. What was originally reported as an ambush of Colombian guerrillas by Venezuelan troops eventually turned out to have been the inadvertent murder of sixteen Venezuelan fishermen. The revelation that security forces had mistakenly fired on peaceful residents, then apparently attempted to cover up their error, caused a political furor. It also highlighted the increasing confusion along the frontier that resulted from the activities of drug traffickers and Colombian guerrillas. The overreaction of the Venezuelan forces also suggested that they were not properly prepared to deal with the situation.

Although Venezuela's role in the international drug trade was limited in 1990 to the transshipment of drugs and precursor chemicals, there were signs that this role was expanding. In November 1989, authorities made the largest cocaine seizure in the country's history, taking 2,220 kilograms in transit through Valencia. It has been estimated that 130 tons of cocaine and basuco (semirefined paste) entered the country during 1990. There was no evidence that Venezuela was a major drugproducing country in 1990, but some marijuana was grown along the Sierra de Perija, in the northwestern part of Venezuela along the border with Colombia. The National Guard has carried out eradication programs in the area, with financial and material assistance from the United States.

...

Venezuela continued to be a major drug transit country in 1998. Most large scale drug shipments transiting Venezuela originate in Colombia and are smuggled out of major Venezuelan ports in commercial cargo to the U.S. and Europe. Drugs are transported on commercial aircraft (either by drug mules or hidden in air cargo) and small aircraft through Venezuelan airspace. In addition, boats carrying drug shipments from Colombia pass through Venezuela's territorial waters on their way to Caribbean transshipment points.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/samerica/venezuela.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=405&topic_id=2984#2986

You'll find his following post interesting, as well:

AlphaCentauri (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-25-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. 2003 statistics

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

TOP TEN COUNTRIES FOR HOMICIDE, 2003 COUNTRY PER 100,000
(1) Colombia 63
(2) South Africa 51
(3) Jamaica 32
(4) Venezuela 32
(5) Russia 19
(6) Mexico 13
(7) Lithuania 10
(8) Estonia 10
(9) Latvia 10
(10) Belarus 9

...but there are no reliable statistics and Interpol refuses to make its statistics public.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=405&topic_id=2984#2987

[ohio2007]

48. Got a link to that " the Google translator " ?

I would like to throw more then a few foreign language articles into that meat grinder and check its authenticity with people who actually post on boards that are bilingual.

[ronnie624]

58. Certainly.

<http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=es>

How will you "check its authenticity" on "boards that are bilingual", and how would I know you speak the truth regarding its "authenticity"? Recent messages by you seem to indicate that accuracy is not necessarily a priority.

[ohio2007]

60. thanx for the link, I'll try it. Bilingual boards

I'm looking more for Arabic and Farsi translations;
ie
http://baghdadee.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=74


People who have lived in those places and have connections even today post on the internet.Although some nations do limit the free access.....


And what 'spins' that I have posted here upset you the most?

Are the sources of 'kool aid' not to your liking or standard point of view ?

Go visit sites that Cuban nationals post on . Especially those still in Cuba or whatever country interests you .

any links to those forum boards?

No ?

[happydreams]

56. Did you know that one-time owner of the Washington Post was Poppy's business

partner in Zapata? His name is Eugene Meyer and his daughter is Catherine Graham who once proudly admitted that the Washington Post cooperates with the CIA. (See Stockwell's "Praetorian Guard". )

[Judi Lynn]

59. The Washington Post is mentioned several times in this tremendous article you've probably seen

already. It's definitely worth re-reading:

Perhaps no newspaper is more important to the CIA than the Washington Post, one of the nation’s most right-wing dailies. Its location in the nation’s capitol enables the paper to maintain valuable personal contacts with leading intelligence, political and business figures. Unlike other newspapers, the Post operates its own bureaus around the world, rather than relying on AP wire services. Owner Philip Graham was a military intelligence officer in World War II, and later became close friends with CIA figures like Frank Wisner, Allen Dulles, Desmond FitzGerald and Richard Helms. He inherited the Post by marrying Katherine Graham, whose father owned it.

After Philip’s suicide in 1963, Katharine Graham took over the Post. Seduced by her husband’s world of government and espionage, she expanded her newspaper’s relationship with the CIA. In a 1988 speech before CIA officials at Langley, Virginia, she stated:

We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things that the general public does not need to know and shouldn’t. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows.

This quote has since become a classic among CIA critics for its belittlement of democracy and its admission that there is a political agenda behind the Post’s headlines.

http://www.aliveness.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Check the list of news sources directly above this snippet for papers, networks, etc. which have operated with CIA direction.

(I got this link from a post by a DU'er a couple of years ago.)

[Judi Lynn]

45. L.A.Times: U.S. plane enters Venezuela airspace

U.S. plane enters Venezuela airspace
Caracas demands an explanation; Navy craft may have strayed.
From Times Staff and Wire Reports
May 20, 2008


CARACAS, VENEZUELA -- Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro said Monday that U.S. Ambassador Patrick Duddy would be called in to explain a U.S. Navy plane's violation of Venezuelan airspace.

Defense Minister Gen. Gustavo Rangel Briceno said Venezuela believes the intrusion was deliberate, but U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the plane "may have strayed inadvertently into Venezuelan airspace" while conducting a counter-narcotics mission.

The S-3 plane, deployed to the airport in Curacao, was detected in Venezuelan airspace Saturday night near the Caribbean island of La Orchila, and questioned by the Caracas airport control tower.

A Defense official in Washington said the S-3 was contacted by Curacao air traffic control and told to radio a Venezuelan air traffic control center. That center told the S-3's four-person crew that they had flown into Venezuelan airspace.

More:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-venezuela20-2008may20,0,4280718.story

[ohio2007]

52. looking for a better map of the two islands but this will do

Below is a map showing the locations of Curacao (black speck) where the S3 was flying from and and La Orchila (gray speck to the east of the black speck)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura%C3%A7ao
Looks like a nice place for shore duty





They say La Orchila is a bird/wildlife sanctuary with some sort of "military base" there....





http://www.explore-yachts.com/charter/orchila.htm

And the actual explanation behind this evil US " incursion" ..........

A 24 yr old pilot who didn't make the fighter level grade in flight school last year.

jmo

[Bacchus39]

57. yeah, Venezuela already called the US explanation "unacceptable"

completely predictable. Chavez needs his bogeyman.

[fascisthunter]

51. Boy the Neo-Nuts and the Fascists in South America want War with Venezuela Bad!

It's really sick theater watching these corrupt loons goad another country and it's leader the way they have. What's worse is they justify doing so by framing the country and the man with LIES.

[BobbyVan]

54. It may be true that the Neocons would like Chavez to give them a pretext for war...

But it doesn't make it OK for the Chavistas to be trying to overthrow the government of Colombia by supporting the FARC.

[gulfcoastliberal]

55. The Rockefellers know they can't have their FTAA implemented with Chavez in power.

It's very high on the NWO to-do list - thus all the efforts at "disposing" of Chavez and his anti-imperialist governance.

[Judi Lynn]

61. Controversy Over Guajira: U.S. Military Bases in South America

May 21, 2008
Controversy Over Guajira
U.S. Military Bases in South America
By NIKOLAS KOZLOFF

Despite his record unpopularity, it would appear that President Bush wants to go out of office with a bang. Having failed to overthrow Hugo Chávez through an attempted coup, the White House now hopes to escalate pressure on Venezuela’s President by other means.

On Saturday, a U.S. navy plane strayed into Venezuelan airspace. Venezuelan Defense Minister Gustavo Rangel said that the aircraft "practically flew over" the island of La Orchila - where Venezuela has a military base and President Hugo Chávez has a residence - and another island before turning back. U.S. officials claimed the plane had “navigational problems.”

"This is just the latest step in a series of provocations," Rangel said.

From Orchila to the Fourth Fleet

Indeed, tensions have been mounting in recent days. The Navy is now reactivating its fourth fleet in the Caribbean. The fleet, which will include a nuclear aircraft carrier, will be based in Mayport, Florida.

The fleet hasn’t seen any action in Caribbean waters since World War II. In February 1942, the Germans sank a number of oil tankers full of Venezuelan crude. The attack caused a nationalist outcry in Venezuela and Caracas began to side more openly with the allies. In response to the attacks the U.S. patrolled the area, hunting down Nazi submarines which were wreaking havoc on allied shipping. After the war, with no more German U-boats prowling Caribbean waters, the Fourth Fleet was dissolved.

So, why resuscitate the fleet now?

The navy claims the move is necessary to protect maritime security. The real reason however may have more to do with Washington’s desire to wage a kind of psychological war against the Chávez government and to foment a climate of political tension.
(snip)

U.S. Air Base at Manta: A Social Disaster

“Manta used to be a purely fishing town,” he explained. “Now the fishermen don’t have access to certain parts of the ocean, which are closed off for security reasons.” On the sea, U.S marines had intercepted Ecuadoran boats, even sinking some vessels. “The marines are not the Ecuadoran coast guard,” Jiménez declared indignantly.

He went on to tick off a number of other problems associated with the U.S. airbase. For example, the base had gradually expanded over time. This expansion had displaced campesino farmers from their traditional lands. In addition, there had been environmental damage: within the local area, hillsides had been destroyed in an effort to acquire the necessary raw materials to mix asphalt and repave the runway.

The Manta air base contributes some $7 million to the local economy annually, but activists are critical of the lack of real economic development in the area. The marines don’t do any shopping in Ecuadoran markets, nor do they utilize local transportation. “The only thing they contribute to is local discos and prostitution,” Jiménez explained bitterly.

“What you´re describing is hardly unique,” I remarked. “It reminds me of the history of other U.S. military bases.”

“It´s a trend that is repeated around the world,” Jiménez said. “In Vietnam, you had houses of prostitution springing up as well.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/kozloff05212008.html