Vast cracks appear in Arctic ice

[Barrett808]

Source: BBC

Vast cracks appear in Arctic ice
By David Shukman
Environment correspondent, BBC News

Dramatic evidence of the break-up of the Arctic ice-cap has emerged from research during an expedition by the Canadian military.

Scientists travelling with the troops found major new fractures during an assessment of the state of giant ice shelves in Canada's far north.

The team found a network of cracks that stretched for more than 10 miles (16km) on Ward Hunt, the area's largest shelf.

The fate of the vast ice blocks is seen as a key indicator of climate change.

One of the expedition's scientists, Derek Mueller of Trent University, Ontario, told me: "I was astonished to see these new cracks.

"It means the ice shelf is disintegrating, the pieces are pinned together like a jigsaw but could float away," Dr Mueller explained.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7417123.stm

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. I think we are expecting this

[bluereality]

56. I feel sorry about the polar bears

If nothing's done, they will perish.

[rasputin1952]

2. And still, there will be denial from the naysayers...

brings a whole new meaning to "Baked Alaska"...:(

[progressoid]

62. I heard Rush blathering on just yesterday about it.

There are more polor bears than ever!

They're animals - they'll adapt. I've seen then in the zoo in NY. They don't need ice.

:puke:

[rasputin1952]

68. That man is a true idiot...

When his property in FL is 10 feet under water, he might get a clue. I wouldn't pee on him if he was on fire.

[defendandprotect]

3. And we're fooling around trying to rid ourselves of neo-cons/Bushco-- and the oil industry!!

[defendandprotect]

4. It's only been barely three years or so since the "news" has gotten thru to the public --- !!!

Thanks to the suicidal greed of those who control our natural resources and the criminal politicans who were brought to power to keep this covered up -- all for profit ---

Ain't capitalism grand --- ????

[bluesmail]

5. Okay, She's Mad and isn't going to take it anymore.

Can't say that I blame her.

[windbreeze]

6. Downright scary...n/t

[Spouting Horn]

7. Are these the first cracks

ever in the Arctic ice?

[Systematic Chaos]

14. They're talking about ice shelves in the Arctic which are very old, so yes.

Much of the Arctic ice melts every summer then comes back every winter, but there is an area of ice north of Canada which is the oldest and sturdiest ice known up there. So, when that starts to show massive cracks there is definitely a change afoot. :(

[Spouting Horn]

19. So, it's

the first time in history there have been cracks in this permanent ice.

Interesting!

[reggie the dog]

28. not the first time

Just the first time in say 10,000 or 20,000 years. The first time since the last warm period before perhaps the last ice age. Of course there were probably no polar ice caps when the dinosaurs lived.

[FarCenter]

34. The Arctic Ocean was probably ice-free about 120,000 years ago

The previous interglacial period lasted for about 28,000 years -- roughly in the interval 135 to 105 thousand years ago.

The glacial periods are relatively long and warm interglacial periods are relatively short.

An ice-free Arctic Ocean may be a precondition for the start of the next ice age, since it must be open for circumpolar winds to absorb water and carry precipitation south to the lands of Northern Canada, Europe and Asia.

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age for graphs of temperature versus time for the last roughly 2.5 million years, which is when the current cyclical pattern of ice ages started.

[lovuian]

48. Artic Ice may be gone Summer 2008 experts say

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dna9Xg37dpI

just more evidence that Global Warming is happening while the world governments snores

The Dalai Llama said it the Next lesson for us to learn is that Everyone on this Planet is connected

a Hard Lesson to learn in a captilistic world run by corporations

[cannondale]

64. Funny, I recently "discussed" environment with someone like you

I was working with a bunch of hard-core Conservatives, and one actually thought that the earth was not warming! No really, he KNEW this, and quoted some Limbaugh stuff (never mind that he was speaking about the US temps, and that even they are waring by all trend accounting). Then he went into a tirade about Al Gore and how he hates the man and anything he ever stands for, how GW is good for the world and crops, how Alaska is going to greatly benefit, etc.

He then went on to "explain" in good O'HannityBaugh fashion that everything is a trend, and this is simply one of them. That ice caps have melted in the past, so this is OK. I had to explain that people tend to grown in height, and that it can be measured. And that if a 40-yr-old man were to suddenly grow again you would not hear doctors explain that this is normal because growth (as all good Cons know) is cyclical, and that this is yet another growth pattern.

He then denied that man through CFCs caused the hole in the ozone layer. I heard the trend thing again, and had to shut my eyes and wait for the crap that should have been corrected in middle school to go away. I don't think any of these guys even know what ozone is, how long we have been observing the hole, and what seasonal changes have actually looked like. UGH! Read something, Right-wing people! At least look at a graph someday.

And we wonder why there are so few Con scientists. How could they even publish if they think like this?

[Barrett808]

71. The first time in human history, yes.

If we assume modern humans are about 100,000 years old.

[SpiralHawk]

8. "Great, plenty of ice cubes for my vacation at the ranch. Smirk." - Commander AWOL

"Global climate change is a fact-based lib-rul scare tactic. We republicons don't 'believe' in it, so it ain't happening. Smirk."

- Commander AWOL

[cloudythescribbler]

38. a good name for it, as in this pic, is "GLOBAL ROASTING" nt

[Skrelnick]

49. Nice

LOL

[ovidsen]

9. "Nothing happening here... move along... move along..."

The "talent" of the human race to refuse to consider the possibility that there might... just might.... be a global warming issue linked to human emissions of greenhouse gases continues to astound me.

It's perfectly possible that recent changes in the earth's climate are the result of long term climactic cycles, and not just the human race's recently voracious appetite for carbon fuel. The planet's gone through heating and cooling cycles before, and unless we destroy it, it's quite likely to happen again.

BUT WE DON'T KNOW!

The ARROGANCE of the Luddies, from Rush to my next door neighbor, who refuse to even consider funding research into the possibility that there MIGHT be a connection leaves me bewildered and aghast.

Personally, I'm not positive there's a connection. But I'll be the last person on earth to veto scientific inquiry into the possibility that such a connection exists.

[klyon]

59. ask your neighbor if he believes in insurance

then ask him if we should plan for global warming no matter what the reason for its cause. He probably doesn't think there is a risk, he is a good driver.

[Psephos]

10. Now that's what I call "breaking" news n/t

[bronxiteforever]

11. Our great chemistry experiment continues-Sometimes I feel like Taylor in the Planet of the Apes

Looking up at the wreckage of the Statue of Liberty-
"you really did it"

[Baby Snooks]

12. It's God's hand blessing all of us good Christians!

Don't you see? It's God's hand blessing all of us good Christians! God has decided to bless us once more so we are no longer dependent on those evil Muslims for our oil. What will probably be heard soon in the fundamentalist churches all around the country.

Any scientist who at this point dares to say the earth is not in imminent danger from the decimation of the entire ecosystem as a result of global warming is obviously being paid to say so.

The only God the Republicans know is money. So of course they welcome this. Makes it easier to get to the oil and gas. Screw the world. All they see is money, money, money.

You do have to wonder about the "end of the world" predictions including 2012. Many of us will not be here to see 2012. There are predictions of growing disparity throughout the world as oil and the oligarchy it has created destroys economies followed by growing discontent among those who no longer have the means by which to survive. We will probably see riots in this country. And probably see martial law. Already people who depend on assistance are finding the monthly allotment no longer covers even the basics. Utility bills are increasing as are grocery bills. Many worry about what may happen over the course of this summer. We may be headed for social collapse as well as economic collapse. And the Republicans will simply turn their heads and pray to their God and believe that God has blessed them. Everyone else must have done something horrible for God to have inflicted such misery upon them. And some Democrats will turn their heads as well.

We are becoming a divided country based solely on economics. The haves and have nots. Welcome to the oligarchy.

The haves will protect themselves. Regardless of whether they're Democrats or Republicans.

[BeHereNow]

16. Great post- you nailed it.

And yes, I wonder about the 2012 prophecy more and more
with each passing day.
In case you've never caught my link to the Kogi Indians of Colombia:
http://www.taironatrust.org

They tried to warn us YEARS ago.

BHN

[SpiralHawk]

17. "2012 not the end of the world." - Mayan Elders

It's the end of the 4th World, and the start of the 5th World.

http://www.chiron-communications.com/communique%207-10.html

"The Mayan calendars are an object of intense interest for many thousands of people right now, because they focus upon the watershed date of Dec. 21, 2012. Everything changes by then, it is said...


"... "Anthropologists visit the temple sites,"Barrios says, "and read the stelas and inscriptions and make up stories about the Maya, but they do not read the signs correctly. It’s just their imagination...Other people write about prophecy in the name of the Maya. They say that the world will end in December 2012. The Mayan elders are angry with this. The world will not end. It will be transformed. The indigenous have the calendars, and know how to accurately interpret it, not others...

"Humanity will continue," he contends, "but in a different way. Material structures will change. From this we will have the opportunity to be more human..."

(snip)

[Baby Snooks]

26. It definitely is being transformed...

The world may not come to an end but life may - those of us who survive may wish we hadn't. More and more people are moving to smaller communities around the country and trying to make those communities self-sufficient. But climate change may make those communities uninhabitable.

My personal interest is in the Book of Revelation and the Beast. Years ago I knew a priest who studied apocalyptic writings and prophecies. The mark of the beast. 666. The beast who may wittingly or unwittingly open the gates of Hell. So many interpretations. But not of 666.

At the time the Book of Revelation was written, Chaldean numerology was the system used and the number of characters in a name is what was looked at. Try finding a list of world leaders in the past 2,000 years whose name consists of three names with six letters in each name. There is only one. Ronald Wilson Reagan.

His vice-president promised us a "kinder, gentler" society. His vice-president's son has delivered a "meaner, nastier" society.

There really is an evil in the world. And it seems to have come forth not through Ronald Reagan but through George HW Bush and George W Bush.

There is a major astrological/astronomical event that occurs in December of 2012. None of us will know what will happen until it happens. Although in some ways, the beginning of it seems to have begun.

Many believed AIDS was the last of the scourges described in the Book of Revelation. "Behold a pale horse." As the planet continues to warm, more and more bacteria and viruses are mutating. Who is to say one of the bacteria or the viruses will not quickly become a major plague that wipes out most of civilization simply because it has never been seen before and there simply isn't time to find a way to treat it or prevent it. That has been and still is the major concern about the "bird flu" which apparently is still mutating. But it and AIDS may simply prove to have been a precursor to what is yet to come. Just as the tsunami in 2004 may have been a precursor to what is yet to come with regard to plate movements. There is no record of anything similar having happened before in our history as a civilization the past 5,000 years. Even Krakatoa did not produce a tsunami that affected an entire oceanic region as it did. Very strange things are going on off the coast of Oregon which have never been seen before. And which may be a precursor to something else involved with the North American plates. Possibly a super eruption of Yellowstone. We are also seeing asteroids coming closer and closer to our planet. They too are described in terms of "natural" occurences. And yet previous similar occurences have never been recorded. Who is to say the causes of global warming haven't effected things about our planet that we simply aren't even aware of which are making us more susceptible to an asteroid being drawn in instead of being pushed away from our orbit?

All things that go bump in the night aside, our planet is undergoing some rapid changes that cannot be dismissed in terms of "natural cycles" and which are increasingly producing concern over the effect of those changes on life itself. There appears to be little if anything we can do except accept they are happening and they may produce any number of things which will threaten our existence.

And the melting of the Arctic icecap is definitely an indication of the changes. There is a similar phenomenon being observed in Antarctica. The icecap is not melting but is breaking apart. So both icecaps, and both poles, are undergoing rapid changes. And that no doubt will have some effect on the earth itself. And it is doubtful they will be beneficial effects but instead will be the opposite.

It is too late to stop what is happening. We simply have to adapt as we can and accept that the world of today is not going to be the world of tomorrow. For those of us who survive whatever is coming.

[Straight Shooter]

66. Ronald Reagan also bought a ranch in California, 666 St. Cloud

Nancy insisted that it be changed to 668 St. Cloud. True story. Not urban myth.

It's a number that the Reagans didn't want as an address when they moved out of the White House in 1989 to the Los Angeles neighborhood of Bel-Air. So they changed their address from 666 St. Cloud Road to 668.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-06-05-sixes-devil_x.htm

As for george w. bush, who could easily be mistaken for the spawn of Satan, his birth time contains three sixes: July 6, 1946, at 7:26 a.m.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/142/story_14265_1.html

[Zhade]

74. Things are bad enough without bringing astrology nonsense into the mix.

NT!

[femrap]

46. Thx for that link...

I feel much better....maybe we can rid ourselves of the dark powers. Again thank you.

I'm now going to go and plant a garden!

[femrap]

44. In a way, I find comfort

in the Mayan calendar and its end on 12-21-12...maybe that's when the Earth turns on its axis and the seasons reverse?

I'm certainly ready for a new reincarnation...I'd sure like to advance to a place where the life form is more kind and intelligent. Most humans suck.

[klyon]

61. 12-21-12 is when the earth lines up with the center of the galaxy

in astrological terms, I believe that is what I read somewhere

[FarCenter]

13. Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/index.html

You can follow the melting here month by month.

[Baby Snooks]

15. Truly scary

There are various impacts on the earth by this beyond sea level rise and the introduction of fresh water into salt water ocean current streams. It affects plate tectonics as well according to some. Others wonder about the impact on the earth's rotation. We really don't know.

This should have been taken seriously when snowcaps began disappearing from peaks such as Mt. Kilimanjaro. Instead it was ignored. It was called "natural" by scientists. There is nothing natural about snowcaps and ice caps disappearing. It is a warning. That we may have heeded too late. If we have indeed heeded it.

[klyon]

63. When the global current stops again all life will take a giant hit

The global current is started by the Arctic cold water sinking.
If that stops look out. For all of mankind's time it has made our planet habitable. It will return some day but probably without us. Say bye bye.

[lonestarnot]

21. tic toc tic toc tic toc tic toc tic toc tic toc tic toc tic toc tic toc.

[TheFarseer]

18. Right-wing radio keeps saying the ice is thicker than ever

and expanding. How can they say that? How can one group claim one thing and one group claims the EXACT opposite! I don't understand how this can happen.

[Divine Discontent]

20. oh I don't know - delusional thoughts perhaps? lies to avoid the obvious massive need to rework

everything in this world and how live and make it... just a couple thoughts.

[cloudythescribbler]

36. It's their HEADS which are thicker than ever, & harder nt

[techtrainer]

53. I think they are referring to Greenland

[techtrainer]

54. I think they are referring to Greenland

duplicate, sorry

[Xenotime]

70. They lie.

[Divine Discontent]

22. let's K&R this to 100 folks - this is horrible news & something we should keep working to fix even

in our own modest way.

thanks for posting!

[defendandprotect]

40. Patriarchy, Capitalism, "Manifest Destiny," "Man's Dominion Over Nature" -- all sucidial --- !!!

Nationalize our oil industry --
and let's get ELECTRIC CARS on our highways --- !!!

We can do this in 3-5 years --- which is probably still too late ---
Congress can raise a corporation to produce them and we can subsidize both manufacture and
purchase ---

See: "Who Killed The Electric Car?" ---

[Shoelace]

23. thanks for the news

and now back to building my space ship set to depart for Planet Zingdu4108 in 2010. Warp 10

[TrogL]

24. Start watching Bush and Khazakistan

The old route through Afghanistan was a fizzle.

The new route's across the pole through Canada.

[McCamy Taylor]

25. And all Bush Co. are doing is fighting over the oil rights in the arctic sea that is uncovered.

These people are absolutely insane!

:nuke:

[SaveOurSovereignty]

27. 4%

Global tax on people around the world will not prevent such a thing from happening.
Whether you believe in the effects on mans contribution to global warming or not I'm sure
we can agree that this is not the answer and is unconstitutional as well as the sure elimination of each countries sovereignty.

[SpiralHawk]

29. Are the republicons proposing this 4% global tax?

eom

[SaveOurSovereignty]

30. Both Parties

Are for this SpiralHawk

[SpiralHawk]

31. Link?

This is the first I've heard of it....

[Phred42]

32. If things are moving this fast - We've already past the tipping point

They just wont tell us any more than they'd tell us that a meteor was going to hit the Earth next week.

[defendandprotect]

41. Global Warming has been hidden from the public for 30 years or more . . .

Certainly the models were accurate in 1950's . . .
Scientists began speaking out long, long ago ---

NASA info was curtailed by GOP --

ExxonMobil has run propaganda costing tens of billions for decades ---

Capitalism is suicidal ---

Nationalize our oil industry ---

ELECTRIC CARS ---

See the movie: "Who Killed The Electric Car?"

[Phred42]

75. Bingo! Agree with all of it.

I have a copy of "Who killed..." and share it often

[Oak2004]

76. They'd have no choice but to tell us an asteroid was about to hit

The equations governing the motion of bodies, and the relevant orbital data for near earth objects are http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/neo_elem"> hardly a state secret. And all it takes to observe an asteroid is a sufficiently good amateur telescope. You don't have to be anyone formally trained, or hold any official capacity, to be able to determine for yourself whether an asteroid will strike earth. You just have to have an interest in the question, and the discipline to teach yourself about it.

Far, far too many people will know, including people completely outside the realm of government and academia, indeed completely unknown to the government (given that we don't maintain registries of amateur astronomers).

Furthermore professional astronomers themselves are disinclined to be secret about anything. A number of years ago I regularly read a mailing list (or perhaps a usenet newsgroup -- I can't remember which) where astronomers were posting raw observations and preliminary orbits for near earth objects -- and I'm no astronomer, I'm just a once-upon-a-time-ago-wannabe-astrophysicist.

So if NASA doesn't want to announce it, one or more academics will, and if an academic doesn't announce it (very unlikely), amateurs will. When we find an NEO with our planet's name on it, everyone will know very quickly.

[windoe]

33. I saw what I thought was a huge crack on Google Earth recently-

but wasn't sure how recent the data was, still disturbing.

[Joey Liberal]

35. It's the curse of Bush n/t

[cloudythescribbler]

37. Yet another reminder of the CATASTROPHIC INADEQUACY the current environmental movement's demands...

rather than, as eg the 1 Sky Platform of the Environmental Action Coalition (the main group organizing students/youth) would have it, demanding an 80% reduction in emissions by 2050, which is the same as Nancy Pelosi and Al Gore, progressives need to UNITE around the demand for NET NEGATIVE GLOBAL GREENHOUSE GAS (GHG) EMISSIONS -- AND SOON. Foremost climatologist Jim Hansen, as noted by other posters and myself on DU in the past, has noted that we have ALREADY passed the tipping point on the melting of summer Arctic Sea ice and urgently need to lower not merely CO2 EMISSIONS, but overall ATMOSPHERIC LEVELS of CO2, from about 385-7 parts per million now, to under 350 ppm -- and FAST!!!!

[defendandprotect]

39. ...and we're still watching "I Love Lucy" . . . !!!

[PCIntern]

43. " 'Splain THAT to me, Lucy!" n/t

[Seedersandleechers]

42. Source: BBC

Isn't there an American publication covering this? Probably not-how sad.

[Shoelace]

55. I googled news for this, found it everywhere but the US news

it was reported in NZ, Australia, all over the UK, Uruguay, Thailand, and even Kazakhstan but not in the US. Australia has been great reporting these things since they got rid of Howard and replaced him with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, a man who won because of his green platform on the environment.

At present, the US news is more concerned that the Polar bear being listed as endangered, might hamper oil exploration.

Yet another reason for Democrats to unite, fight like hell to win the November elections, all of them including both houses of Congress.


http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tab=wn&q=Vast+cracks+appear+in+Arctic&scoring=d

[whistle]

45. About to reveal "Hollow Earth" perhaps

:yoiks:

[emmadoggy]

47. Sigh. K & R.

:cry: :scared:

[Popol Vuh]

50. Makes you wonder about 2012

n/t

[tinrobot]

60. They project the ice will be gone in 2013

Close enough for me.

[oldtime dfl_er]

51. The future is NOW

If it's not too late already.

[vkkv]

52. Vast cracks appear in Arctic ice

I'm hoping for and planning to see the U.S. scientific community begin an astonishing new RENAISSANCE after Bush gets the hell out of here.

[progressoid]

65. Let's hope there is a renaissance vkkv.

We're going to need it.

Welcome to DU!!

[grantcart]

57. What I want to know is

whether or not the scientists that were working on this were wearing American Flag lapel pins?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

58. Finally! An important question.

Since that's what really matters to Americans. :(

[bertman]

67. Cracking ice caps, easy access to arctic oil

Gas prices should be going down any minute now.

Swell.

[mace77]

69. More ice

Not to worry. According to NASA and NOAA at the National Snow and Ice Data Center there is about 7% more total sea ice, counting N and S Hemisphere. There is 1.7 millions square kilometers more sea ice.

[Barrett808]

72. Welcome to DU, mace!

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

73. "Bushed" again . .. ???

NASA was pulled off of ozone and GW issues long, long ago ---

and neo-cons have done nothing but curtail their research on these subjects since then.

Missing money and missing science --- just "Bushed" ---

Meanwhile, we can pull down all the redwoods and you know . . . new trees will grow . . .
just like NEW ice --- thin ice.

Is it the same -- of course not.