Memo: Fla., Mich. can't be fully restored

[ballsalicious]

Source: Ap

WASHINGTON - A Democratic Party rules committee has the authority to restore delegates from Michigan and Florida but not fully seat the two states at the convention as Hillary Rodham Clinton wants, according to a party analysis.

Party rules require that the two states lose at least half of their convention delegates for holding elections too early, Democratic National Committee lawyers wrote in a 38-page memo.

The memo was sent late Tuesday to the 30 members of the party's Rules and Bylaws Committee, which plans to meet Saturday to consider the fate of convention delegates from the two states. The party is considering plans to restore at least some of the delegates to make sure the two important general election battlegrounds will be included at the nominating convention in August.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble_1

[MercutioATC]

1. Frankly, they're lucky to get any representation at all.

FL and MI voters should be working to recall their legislators who voted for the date changes, not misplacing their anger on the DNC.

[mac2]

5. Hail to King Dean.

[MercutioATC]

6. Dean did not write the rules.

This has nothing to do with Howard Dean, it's about two states that...even after being warned...still chose to break the rules.

Blaming Dean is childishly petulant.

[beac]

7. Terry McAuliffe wrote the rules and Harold Ickes (and 14 other Hillary supporters)

signed off on them, yet Dean gets blamed.

Crazy.

[knitter4democracy]

24. Two states with GOP-dominated state congresses.

Why doesn't anyone ever take that into account here? The GOP already knew they'd only lose half their delegates while we'd lose all--I'm sure of that. The MI GOP is pretty canny and wicked and just smart enough to pull this off. It was Republicans who introduced the bills, and there's no way it would've passed without their support and their working for it, too.

[whopis01]

27. don't overlook the fact that no Democrat voted against it in Florida. n/t

[knitter4democracy]

32. Of course not. But still--do we really trust the Repukes on this?

In my thinking, the second they got on board so enthusiastically should've been the second we walked away from it.

[harmonicon]

8. I don't think any of us Michigan voters are mad at the DNC

I've written to the head of our start party and our governor several times and told them how upset I am about their mismanagement of this election. I saw the process as being undemocratic and didn't cast a ballot. I will be far more angry if any delegates are awarded from this sham election.

[vanboggie]

10. Me too

This Michigander has the same opinion as you do.

[PassingFair]

11. Me three.

I blame the state party, our congressional
delegations, Governor Granholm and our
state legislators.

They KNEW we didn't want to push ourselves
forward if there were penalties, and
THEY DID IT ANYWAY.

[noonwitch]

13. I cast a ballot, but otherwise agree with you

I waited 20+ years to vote for a woman, and I was not going to let my opportunity slip away.

But, otherwise, I do realize it was our local leadership that screwed it up, not any of the candidates.

[mac2]

14. You should be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-barrett/could-the-republicans-cou_b_94158.html

[harmonicon]

16. I know very well how I should feel, thank you.

The fact is, I would have been fine with the primary being whenever. I think Michigan deserved to have an early primary as much as any state, and the the current system is bullshit, but I'm not extra-mad about it being bullshit this time around. Our state party leader, Mark Brewer, is an asshat, and he's really shown it.

[knitter4democracy]

25. How do we get rid of Mark, by the way?

I've been wondering that. He's shown himself to not be all that effective (especially in the last election), so how do we replace him?

[harmonicon]

30. I don't know, to be honest

I think I'd be more on top of it if I were an official party member, but I'm not. I used to think that was the best way to be, but now I think it would be better to be more active within the party. I would imagine that the governor has something to do with it, because the two of them seem to take the same positions.

[knitter4democracy]

33. I think I'll ask our county party chair.

Mostly just to see the look on his face. ;)

[bain_sidhe]

19. Wrong. I am. nt

[harmonicon]

21. ok, well it looks like you're in the minority

Would you mind explaining why you'd prefer a sham over real democracy?

[knitter4democracy]

22. Me too. I'm mad at all of them.

The MI GOP was behind this as well, since they were the ones who put the bills forth in the state house and all. They knew we'd get screwed, and anyone who's been in Michigan for any real length of time knows how crazy the Republicans are in this state and how they'll do anything to win.

Our state party leaders knew better. As soon as the Republicans agreed, they should've done more digging to find out why. Dean should've also looked into why it was moving so quickly and so smoothly through a Republican-dominated state congress and found the difference in the rules. That 30 day window was a freakin' joke, too, since the state congress by then was fighting tooth and nail over the budget. As a former governor, surely he could've seen the handwriting on the wall over that one.

I'm mad at them all, frankly.

[Va Lefty]

2. What if it were Texas and Georgia?

I wonder what the Party's reaction would be if it were 2 states that probably won't be competitive this fall

[mac2]

3. This is democracy?

Which lawyer wrote that document? Was he a Republican or DLCer. Don't you think the party delegates should decide on it at the convention?

[gratuitous]

12. Party delegates DID decide this

Back in 2007 when the primary schedule was set and agreed to by the party delegations from all 50 states and the districts and territories that hold Democratic primaries. However, in a quest for "relevance" in choosing the party nominee, Michigan's and Florida's state delegations decided to ignore their agreement and obligation to the other states, and try to jump the gun by moving their primary dates up.

The national party, understandably nonplussed, warned both states against moving up their primaries. They told them over and over again that they were risking the prospect that their state delegations would not be seated at the convention. Michigan and Florida went ahead anyway. These are the natural consequences of their actions; a responsible parent would do the same thing with an erring 7-year-old, except a 7-year-old is showing a bit more maturity than the Michigan and Florida state delegations.

[mac2]

4. Texas and Georgia might be conservative states?

Conservative states rule not liberal progressive ones. I get it.

[MaineDem]

9. It would have been the same for any state that didn't follow the rules

Of that I have no doubt whatsoever.

[mac2]

15. Twenty lashes for voting too early!!

Can you hear what you are saying?

[lark]

17. Not true

Name me one time this has ever happened before that Democratic delegates were actually kept from the convention because their state broke the rules? Can't do it? Why, because it never ever happened before. No matter how much the state broke the rules, the delegates were seated. Why now is it important when it's never been before? Is there some reason behind their intrasiegence this election?? Seems there's a motive here to me.

[seasat]

20. The previous states that jumped the schedule held caucuses later

Delaware in 1996 and 2000 tried to jump early in the schedule but after their plans were rejected they held caucuses so that their delegates would be seated. Washington DC tried to jump ahead in 2004 to promote granting it representation but they ended up holding caucuses later to determine their delegates after the DNC rejected their plan. The candidates avoided those primaries and did not campaign there because of possible sanctions by the DNC. The reason that the delegates were eventually seated is because Delaware and DC eventually held caucuses to determine their delegates not because the DNC backed down.

Florida, my state, and Michigan could have submitted a proposal like Delaware and DC did and their delegation would be seated in its entirety. There were numerous proposals thrown around but they instead decided to challenge the DNC in the courts.

Here's an interesting tidbit. In 2004, Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack called for New Hampshire's delegation to not be seated because they scheduled their primary for the day after Iowa's caucuses.

[knitter4democracy]

26. The caucus bill got shot down by the MI GOP.

We tried to pass it, and it didn't go anywhere. The Republicans squashed it, knowing full well that we would be screwed if it didn't pass.

[MaineDem]

31. FL and MI will be seated

I have never doubted that. But it will probably only be 50% of the delegation.

It isn't fair...not only that it isn't right... to allow states to break the rules and not punish them. The other states that did the correct thing deserve that.

The Rules were made long before we had a "presumed nominee".

[MichiganVote]

18. I think they have all overeached. The state party, the national party and the rules committee.

I'm not mad about it but I am saving some money this election and since I live in Michigan and have been layed off that works for me.

[knitter4democracy]

23. I'm cool with half. It would make us even with the GOP.

They lost half of theirs in Michigan, too. Just make sure our half is all superdelegates and party chairs and such. They're the idiots behind this mess, not the rank-and-file who fought against it.

[Liberty Belle]

28. DNC Lawyers Rule Against Clinton

Source: Washington Post

DNC Lawyers Rule Against Clinton

Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, May 29, 2008; Page A06

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's prospects of persuading Democratic officials to override party rules and recognize all delegates selected in the Florida and Michigan primaries suffered a setback yesterday after lawyers for the party ruled that no more than half of those delegations could be legally recognized.

Democratic National Committee lawyers wrote in a memo that the two states must forfeit at least half of their delegates as punishment for holding primaries earlier than DNC rules allowed. Clinton (N.Y.) prevailed in both contests, although the Democratic candidates had agreed not to campaign in Florida and Michigan, and Sen. Barack Obama removed his name from the Michigan ballot.

The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee is scheduled to meet Saturday to make a final determination on Florida and Michigan, which would have collectively awarded 368 convention delegates. But in the memo, party lawyers determined that full restoration, as sought by Clinton, would violate DNC rules, although it did note a loophole that would allow her to carry the challenge to the first day of the Democratic National Convention in late August.

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe told reporters that the senator from Illinois is prepared to forfeit a portion of his delegate lead, as part of a compromise to resolve the Florida and Michigan flap. "We don't think it's fair to seat them fully," Plouffe said of the two delegations. But he added, "We're willing to give some delegates here" in order to put the matter to rest.

(full story at link)


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052803093.html?hpid=topnews

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[truthisfreedom]

29. Somebody run the numbers and let me know where we stand.

[Imagevision]

34. This decision came from the judge hearing the lawsuit broyght on by Hillary--> NO!