Venezuela's Chavez creates new intelligence agencies

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Venezuela's Chavez creates new intelligence agencies

May 29, 2008 9:13 AM

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - President Hugo Chavez is revamping his intelligence agencies to counter what he calls U.S. attempts to undermine his government.

Four new spy agencies will replace the current DISIP secret police and DIM military intelligence agency, Interior Minister Ramon Rodriguez Chacin said Thursday.

A new law has established the General Intelligence Office and the General Counterintelligence Office, both overseen by the Interior Ministry, plus similar military intelligence and counterintelligence components, Rodriguez Chacin told reporters.

He did not say how they will differ from the current spy agencies or whether any top officials will be replaced.

Rodriquez Chacin announced the change the previous night, saying the new agencies are meant to confront U.S. attempts to meddle in Venezuela's internal affairs.


Read more: http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=WORLD&ID=565305936525526270

[Prophet 451]

1. Hmmm

This could go either way. If the new agencies are genuinely intended purely to counter foreign interference (which would be counter-intelligence), all well and good. On the other hand, these things can easily go too far and become effectively secret police.

[Peace Patriot]

3. Venezuela arrests suspected U.S. DEA agent

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3330880

With incidents like this, the "suitcase full of money" caper out of Miami, the "miracle laptop" Rumsfeld/Office of Special Plans-type dirty ops out of Colombia, the bombing of Ecuador by U.S./Colombia, the Bush-USAID funding of rightwing groups and coup plotters in these countries, and all the other crap that the Bush Junta has pulled, or tried to pull, the Chavez government would be derelict in its duty NOT to beef up counter-intelligence. The suggestion that they would misuse such an agency is coming from...where? You put it in general terms, in the passive voice ("...these things can easily go too far and become effectively secret police."), but why raise the prospect of abusive "secret police" with regard to Chavez and his democratically elected, highly popular government? You mean abuse like they do in Colombia--where government-tied rightwing paramilitary death squads kill union leaders, opposition politicians and voters, community organizers, peaceful protesters, human rights workers and journalists? Or, more like the Bush Junta--using FBI/CIA to kidnap people off the streets of foreign countries, like Italy, and "render" them to secret torture dungeons in eastern Europe, or, closer to home, using U.S. corporations to spy on all Americans, and get dirt and blackmail material on U.S. politicians, and design better dirty tricks, combined with their use of the Dept. of Justice for political prosecutions?

On what do you base the suggestion that the Chavez government would commit these sort of "secret police" abuses? Any evidence that they're offing peaceful (or even violent) citizens for their political activity? Any anecdotes about spying, blackmail, dirty tricks? Any torture dungeons in Venezuela, or its allies, that Venezuela is "rendering" prisoners to?

Of course, any government can become abusive, and any counter-intelligence agency can become as rotten as the Bush-CIA & OSP, and any government that holds power on behalf of a rich minority can descend into barbarism against the majority poor (as Uribe's government has, in Colombia, and the Bush Junta edged up to, with Katrina). But in putting forward this caveat, you not only fail to mention that "secret police" abuse is characteristic of the Colombia/Uribe and USA/Bush governments--the two governments that hate Chavez and his many supporters and allies with particular venom--and fail to provide any evidence or reason to caution against Venezuelan counter-intelligence, when it is obviously badly needed to prevent subversion of Venezuela's democracy and its lawful government, and that of its allies, as well, such as Ecuador, Bolivia and Argentina (where Bushite subversion ops are rampant).

[Prophet 451]

4. "The suggestion that they would misuse such an agency is coming from...where?"

It comes purely from my own boundless cynicism. I'm not suggesting the Venezualan government is especially prone to such abuses. Rather, I think it is the nature of both governments and intelligence agencies generally to tend toward abuse and it is the job of us as citizens to watch those in power like hawks to guard against that.

[ohio2007]

7. collaborators will be weeded out and put up against the wall....

...these things can easily go too far and become effectively secret police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSUWRv-Wc38&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq4jOy6ag6s&feature=related


Rule by decree

[ronnie624]

9. Ridiculous.

You invoke grandiloquent symbolism in your attack against the Bolivarian government because you can't possibly make a rational case with logic and reason. Such is the way of the Chavez 'critics'.

[fascisthunter]

17. we choose to usually ignore them

[ohio2007]

36. Kinda like ignoring

Zimbabwe's glorious plans at making becoming a shiny example of success in Africa ?

another one swept under the rug

[ohio2007]

35. Newspaper vice president shot dead in Venezuela ( Reality with symbolism )

CARACAS, Venezuela - The vice president of a Venezuelan newspaper was shot and killed by a gunman who police said could have confused the victim for his brother — the president of a daily that has closely covered corruption cases.

Pierre Fould Gerges, vice president of the Reporte Diario de la Economia, was shot about a dozen times by an assassin on a motorcycle Monday night, newspaper editor Jose Palmar told the Venezuelan broadcaster Union Radio.

"Everything indicates it was a hit,"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3336803


Chávez decree tightens hold on intelligence

snip

"We are before a set of measures that are a threat to all of us," said Blanca Rosa Mármol de León, a justice on Venezuela's top court, in a rare public judicial dissent. "I have an obligation to say this, as a citizen and a judge. This is a step toward the creation of a society of informers."

snip

"Even within the Bolivarian movement, this would officialize Soviet- and Cuban-style purges, accusing dissidents of being spies, traitors or agents of the imperialist enemy," El Nacional, a normally staid opposition newspaper, said in an editorial that ended, "This is revolting."

snip
"This is the most scandalous effort to intimidate the population in the 10 years this government has been in power," said Rocío San Miguel, a prominent legal scholar who heads a non-governmental organization that monitors Venezuelan security and defense issues.

San Miguel said information her group had collected could be deemed illegal under the new law. The group has data from military sources showing that Chávez's efforts to create a force of 1 million reservists had fallen far short.

"Under the new law, this information could be considered a threat to national security and I could be sent immediately to jail," she said. "Effectively this is a way to instill fear in NGOs and news organizations and parts of society that remain outside the government's reach."


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/03/america/03venez.php?page=2

Just between us,
lets see and watch what morphs between now and the day President Obama gives his first hundred days speech about "alarming and disturbing developments" south of the border .

;)

[Judi Lynn]

40. W ould you be good enough to explain what this murder has to do with the Venezuelan President?

Ya think he had him clipped? Do ya? Huh?

Please show people you can do the mental work to draw the line between this murder and the President of Venezuela.

[ronnie624]

41. In post #7, you intimated through overblown symbolism

that Venezuela is some sort of neo fascist state (I really love Pink Floyd, but I have never seen that video before). When I challenged you to compose a rational argument supporting your claim, you instead posted a link to a thread featuring an article reporting the assassination of a Venezuelan newspaper executive (which I had already read). This is clearly a round-about way of accusing the Venezuelan government of committing assassinations.

This is another example of how the Chavez 'critics' attempt to vilify Hugo Chavez and the Bolivarian political movement, without the use of specific allegations and factual information that can be corroborated by other sources. Such nonsense does not merit serious consideration. It needs only to be pointed out so that others may readily see it.

[Arctic Dave]

2. When the house has too many termites sometimes

it is better to tear it down and build a new one.

[Gabi Hayes]

6. Like Iraq?

jesus

get back to us when your brain thaws out. shouldn't be too long, with the global warming thing.....

you probably think that's not happening, though, right?

why don't you ask that polar bear eighty miles from the nearest ice floe. shout real loud

[wvbygod]

5. it's for the children

Mother says to always trust the government.

[ohio2007]

8. .

[Psephos]

10. Community-based informer networks, backed by prison terms for noncooperation.

What could possibly go wrong?

[bitchkitty]

15. Prison terms?

Where in the hell do you get that? Link please?

On edit - never mind. Work on your critical thinking skills, or next time do more than just skim an article before you pontificate - you are combining two separate stories.

[jzodda]

21. Prison Terms

"The new law requires people in the country to comply with requests to assist the agencies, secret police or community activist groups loyal to Mr. Chávez. Refusal can result in prison terms of two to four years for most people and four to six years for government employees."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/world/americas/03venez.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[Psephos]

30. Thanks for the laugh! >-)

[bitchkitty]

34. You're welcome, although you're easily amused.

This was not mentioned in the OP's article.

[ohio2007]

37. LOL.. Wasn't exactly written "between the lines" was it ?

Whats black and white and soon to be bloody red all over ? lol

[robcon]

11. Chavez has taken a page from Castro.

Informing your neighbors is now "required" under penalty of prison. Setting up an informer network is essential to his crackdown on dissent.

[jzodda]

12. He will still have his strong supporters on DU no matter what

He could start mass arrests but people will be on here defending him. BTW good article on the new intelligence agencies in Todays NY Times (6/3)

Huge networks of informers, an atmosphere of fear which it will create. The stifling of dissent. The seeds have been sown. Today begins the end of any organized opposition to the government in that country.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/world/americas/03venez.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


A few choice excerpts:


"The new law requires people in the country to comply with requests to assist the agencies, secret police or community activist groups loyal to Mr. Chávez. Refusal can result in prison terms of two to four years for most people and four to six years for government employees.

The drafting and passage of the law behind closed doors, without exposing it to the public debate it would have had if Mr. Chávez had submitted it to the Assembly, also contributed to the public uproar and suspicion.

While the language of this passage of the law, and several others, is vague, legal experts say the idea is clear: justice officials, including judges, are required to actively collaborate with the intelligence services rather than serve as a check on them."

Pretty chilling stuff! Passed in the cover of night, freedom always dies in such a manner.

[AP]

13. Except that in 10 years, there is no evidence that there would ever be mass arrests

and, in fact, it's quite the opposite. He's pardoned coup organizers, and colombian militants assembled to violently overthrow the government, and his political career was motivated by a former government's actual crackdown (by secret police) on people protesting Chicago School/neoliberal economic policies (which are the policies the NYT supports).

[jzodda]

20. So you read about this policy and support it?

You agree with this stuff? I hope not.

[AP]

44. You haven't read it and you're criticizing it?

[Andrushka]

42. That's what the law says?

Or is it what the NYT says?

Yup.

[AP]

14. I think you're mixing up the community policing with intelligence reform.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3505

[Mika]

16. More like: the anti Chavez crowd has taken a page from the anti Castro crowd..

And we know how trustworthy they are.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=4487&mesg_id=4487


-

[fascisthunter]

18. for a second, I thought you were talking about right wingers in the US

or neo-knobs who hate people like Chavez because of his poilitical/social ideology. We have seen you and many others accuse the man of being a dictator.... maybe you should accuse the man of eating babies too. Be original....

[Better Believe It]

27. And Castro Defeated The Numerous Attempts By Washington To Overthrow The Government

The CIA did have agents and spies on the ground in Cuba who tried to undermine and overthrow the government. The Cuban government had the right to investigate, uncover and prosecute those who were acting as secret agents on behalf of a foreign government. Venezuela also has that same right.

If you were a Venezuelan citizen would you report factual information regarding such activities by bona fide foreign agents to the Chavez goverenment? I would.

They can't just sit on their hands while the CIA and other foreign intelligence agencies do their dirty work. That would be irresponsible at best.

[Taverner]

19. OK - can we agree Chavez is no saint?

[Duke Newcombe]

22. Nope. Goes against the narrative, you see. n/t

Duke

[fascisthunter]

23. tell us all about "this" Narrative

we love hearing about narratives especially ones from neo-cons who claim to always know more about everything than anyone else, yet prove almost daily they are full of shit.

[Judi Lynn]

24. It's a party! We do all the research, provide all the links, they do the labeling, red-baiting! n/t

[Duke Newcombe]

25. Now, THAT'S what I call "unity"

You didn't read the NYT article linked upthread, did you?

When you do, perhaps we can have a decent conversation.

Unless Chavez' latest oppression scheme is okay with you, because you agree with his politics.

Duke

[fascisthunter]

26. Funny thing is... it gets repeated Daily

and they assume they are clever at not giving their political bias away. Nah.... their opinions are all based on "fact". To bad we never get to read that "fact". Thanks for what you do Judi.

[Judi Lynn]

28. There is just something "different" about them. They all share a certain bitter hatred of leftists,

something you don't normally expect to find around leftists!



Yep, they just keep coming!
I always, ALWAYS respect your posts, fascisthunter. Thank you for your awareness, conscience, good sense.

[Duke Newcombe]

31. Welcome to the Party of the Big Tent (tm), Judi

I think if lock-step conformity of belief and message, and hive-mindedness is what you crave, McCain and the Republicans would welcome you.

Duke

[bitchkitty]

39. You're so rude.

She's got more TRUE left in her little finger than you have in your whole body, tool.

[bitchkitty]

38. And they often parrot the same lines,

like they've gotten their talking points for the day and nobody stressed originality.

I often have to doublecheck the user names to see if it's a different or the same poster. It's boring, so I put most of them on ignore.

[Duke Newcombe]

29. Links, please.

Especially those where your detractors claim "to always know more about everything than anyone else".

I know Chavez' is "your guy"--but please at least _try_ to be intellectually consistent, and consider whether these latest acts of the Chavez government take Venezuela closer to totalitarianism-even if that's uncomfortable for you.

I'll wait, fascisthunter.

Duke

[Judi Lynn]

32. There are undoubtedly still elements in Venezuelan intelligence which have been closely

connected to the C.I.A.

It only takes a moment to realize that the CIA guy/bomber/mass murderer, Luis Posada Carriles was with D.I.S.I.P. in Caracas, himself.

Posada worked for the Central Intelligence Agency until 1967. He then moved to Venezuela where he became chief of security and counterintelligence in the secret police, DISIP.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKposada.htm

~~~~~~~~~
From declassified documents secured under the F.O.I.A.:

BOMBING OF CUBANA FLIGHT 455

Document 9: FBI, October 7, 1976, Secret Intelligence Report, "Suspected Bombing of Cubana Airlines DC-8 Near Barbados"

In one of the very first reports on the October 6, 1976, downing of Cubana Flight 455, the FBI Venezuelan bureau cables that a confidential source has identified Luis Posada and Orlando Bosch as responsible for the bombing. "The source all but admitted that Posada and Bosch had engineered the bombing of the airline," according to the report. The report appears to indicate that the Venezuelan secret police, DISIP, were arranging for Bosch and Posada to leave Caracas, although this section of the document has been censored.

In the report, the FBI identifies two Venezuelan suspects arrested in Barbados: Freddy Lugo and Jose Vazquez Garcia. Vazquez Garcia is an alias for Hernan Ricardo Lozano. Both Ricardo and Lugo worked for Luis Posada's private security firm in Caracas at the time of the bombing.

Document 10: FBI, November 2, 1976, Secret Intelligence Report "Bombing of Cubana Airlines DC-8 Near Barbados, West Indies, October 6, 1976"

The FBI receives information from a source who has spoken with Ricardo Morales Navarrete, a Cuban exile informant working for DISIP in Caracas. Known as "Monkey" Morales, he tells the FBI source of two meetings during which plotting for the plane bombing took place: one in the Hotel Anauco Hilton in Caracas, and another in Morales room at the Hilton. Both meetings were attended by Posada Carriles. A key passage of the report quotes Morales as stating that "some people in the Venezuelan government are involved in this airplane bombing, and that if Posada Carriles talks, then Morales Navarrete and others in the Venezuelan government will 'go down the tube.' He said that if people start talking 'we'll have our own Watergate.'" Morales also states that after the plane went down, one of the men who placed the bomb aboard the jet called Orlando Bosch and reported: "A bus with 73 dogs went off a cliff and all got killed."

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/index.htm

~~~~~~~~~
Stands to reason that if the D.I.S.I.P. was that connected to the C.I.A. in the 1970's, and if following Venezuelan Presidents, including Carlos Andres Perez, _Bush friend, who had his troops fire directly into crowds of protesting poor people he had just knocked flat by stripping them of their access to transportation to and from work, and the stores by radically increasing transportation costs, and their utility costs, all horrendous shocks which devastated only the poor, have all been completely in bed with the American right-wing in Washington, that one would have to assume things didn't change when Venezuelans elected a new President, and he was inaugurated in February, 1999.

It's a wonder he didn't start rearranging things earlier, considering the great harm the previous oligarchy administsrations did to the vast majority of Venezuelans.

If they want a government that works for Venezuela, they need one which is not controlled by _{George W. Bush} and his filthy, right-wing oligarchs he is financially boosting with U.S. tax dollars, in Caracas.

[rayofreason]

33. Smart move.

A classic police state move. Splitting up intel agencies allows El Jefe to play one off against the other and make sure that no one near the top tries to take him out.

[Hannah Bell]

45. like in the police state usa, with the fbi, cia, naval intelligence, etc.

it works good, too. i hear infighting between the intelligence agencies here (& their corporate/political sponsors) is the behind the scenes story for a lot of the current headlines.

[Evoman]

47. On the other hand, it also prevents one agency from getting to much power and

making backdoor, corrupt deals with unfriendly nations. It doesn't seem to take very much for latin american military and intelligence leaders to be bought by the U.S and sent to assasinate a democratically elected leader.

Hey, that's why I'm in Canada and not Chile.

[ohio2007]

52. actually....... just a few steps short of

the ultimate final steps in Rule by decree ;
Pay to play
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/07/2268165.htm





the hunt for collaborators will heat up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw4UAtKBfug
in the final "Rule by Decree" year

[Andrushka]

43. Kind of obvious question,

but how can so much be known about a law whose text has not been made available to the public yet?

Or are there, as per, a lot of people just pulling stuff out their back passages?

[bitchkitty]

46. lol - the latter. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

48. Setting the record straight on intelligence reform: "The NYT attack vs. the facts."

Venezuela's progressive, new intelligence reform. The NYT attack vs. the facts.
By Letter
Jun 7, 2008, 05:32


Today's article by the New York Times, "Chávez Decree Tightens Hold on Intelligence", demonstrates the Times' ongoing attempt to mislead the general public about the intentions of the Venezuelan government.

While one might have expected the article to describe the content of Venezuela's new intelligence law and discuss a range of reactions to it, the scope was limited only to criticisms by the opposition.

Here are the facts:

The law eliminates Venezuela's 50 year old secret political police, known as DISIP, created during the dictatorship of Perez Jimenez. It also eliminates Venezuela's agency of Military intelligence (DIM). In their place, the General Intelligence Office and the General Counterintelligence Office have been created, both overseen by the Interior Ministry and the Ministry of Defense.

Refining the intelligence capacity of the state does not allow for a "tightening control" by President Chavez; rather, for the first time Venezuela is providing a legal framework for carrying out and monitoring intelligence activities of the nation. Many actions that once were left to the discretion of the DISIP and the DIM are now subject to oversight. Moreover, the existence of this law provides a level of transparency that was lacking before.

The dissolution of the DISIP and DIM was long overdue. For decades. Venezuelans feared these agencies for their involvement in nefarious activity and repression, including incidents involving the escape of notorious criminals. Most importantly, from 1967 to 1974, terrorist Luis Posada Carriles was a high level official at the DISIP. This very important point was passed over by the Times.

As opposed to what the Times implies, the new law guarantees the rights of Freedom of Expression and Due Process under the Law, as established in Venezuela's Constitution. In Article 21, for instance, it is clearly outlined that those prosecuted are guaranteed the right to a public defense.

More:
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_26966.shtml

[ohio2007]

49. "Axis of logic" website ? how many hits do they get a day

not counting....... ;)

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/

[Judi Lynn]

50. Your time would be better spent trying to determine what the facts are. n/t

[Pavulon]

51. Sure the CIA keeps contacts...

we had contacts when Chavez tried to overthrow the government. We have contacts with his government, and we will have contacts with the government that overthrows him. That is their job.

He can change what ever he likes, but as long as people take money we will just recruit the new guys.

[Judi Lynn]

53. Posted by DU'er Joanne98: Chavez Revamps His Intelligence Services: The Corporate Media React

Chavez Revamps His Intelligence Services: The Corporate Media React

by Stephen Lendman


Reports keep surfacing about new threats against Hugo Chavez. Given past ones, they can't be taken lightly. Chavez is alerted and reacts accordingly. Case in point: revamping Venezuela's decades old intelligence services. It's long overdue and urgently needed given the Bush administration's tenure winding down and its determination in its remaining months to end the Bolivarian project and crush its participatory democracy.

CIA, NED, IRI, USAID and other US elements infest the country and are more active than ever. Subversion is their strategy, and it shows up everywhere. Violence is being encouraged. Opposition groups are recruited and funded. So are members of Venezuela's military. Student groups as well and anti-Chavista candidates for November's mayoral and gubernatorial elections.

The dominant media are on board in Venezuela and America. They assail Chavez relentlessly and are on the warpath again after his May 28 announced intelligence services changes. The Interior and Justice Ministries will oversee a new General Intelligence Office and Counterintelligence Office in place of the current Directorate of Intelligence and Prevention Services (DISIP). Similar military intelligence and counterintelligence components will replace the Military Intelligence Division (DIM) and will be under the Defense Ministry. Why was it done and why now? To counter stepped up US espionage and destabilization efforts when it's most needed.

New tools will be used and current personnel retrained and vetted for their Bolivarian commitment. DISIP and DIM are outdated. They've been around since 1969 to serve the "capitalist vision" of that era. Ever since, they've been "notoriously repressive" and closely aligned with the CIA. Therein lies the problem. Chavez intends to fix it. The dominant media reacted. They're hostile to change and showed it their reports.

The New York Times' Simon Romero has trouble with his facts. He headlined "Chavez Decree Tightens Hold on Intelligence." He referred to the new Law on Intelligence and Counterintelligence that passed by presidential decree under the legislatively-granted enabling law. He failed to explain that the 1969 law passed the same way, and that Venezuela's Constitution then and now permit it.

Instead, he noted a "fierce backlash here from (mostly unnamed) human rights groups and 'legal scholars' who say the measures will force citizens to inform on one another to avoid prison terms....The new law requires (them) to....assist the agencies, secret police or community activist groups loyal to Mr. Chavez. Refusal can result in prison terms of two to four years (and up to) six years for government employees."

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9237

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x364197

[ohio2007]

54. Hugo caves to will of the people; must withdraw , rewrite collaborator laws

Chavez backtracks on Venezuela spy law

Judiciary refuses to inform on citizens

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3343057&mesg_id=3343057


time to stack the court

[Bacchus39]

55. yep, but you know the Chavez lovers support that too!!! n/t

nn