United Airlines to require minimum stays from Oct.

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Yahoo News

United Airlines said Friday it will start requiring minimum stays for nearly all domestic flights beginning in October. It is also raising its cheapest fares by as much as $90 one-way.

The second-largest U.S. carrier said the moves are among a number of changes it is making to combat record high fuel prices. The Chicago-based airline has been among the most aggressive in the industry in pushing fares and fuel surcharges higher in recent months, and its latest policy could prompt other carriers to consider following suit.

Starting Oct. 6, most United fares will require a one- to three-night or weekend-night minimum stay, spokeswoman Robin Urbanski said.

The new rules, which apply to nearly every ticket, are bound to be unpopular with business travelers who prefer to catch a flight out early in the morning so they can make it back home in time for dinner.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20080620/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_airlines_fares

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Back to the future! Why the heck can't airlines just figure out their cost of transporting someone from point A to point B with the average weight of everything and load, figure the costs, add on the profit margin they need and just charge that fare?

If we need to get from Point A to Point B - either the passenger pays it or you don't fly.

I give them one caveat. Just like a retailer if they find they are stuck with some merchanidise, i.e. empty seats, then a day or two+ before the flight to recoup at least the cost of flying that plane, offer that on the booking websites.

[K Gardner]

1. I'm in the process of trying to book a flight to CA next month, and I can only say I am shocked and

stunned. I can't even get a flight on which to use my frequent flyer miles.. the rest are prohibitively expensive OR they require my being "en route" for 13+ hours. Cross country rail, anyone?

[TomInTib]

9. I've thrown in the towel...

On the few flights I have been able to find from SFO to JFK, they want 40,000 miles or $500.

I may never see my girlfriend again.

Good luck on your flight plight, K G.

[The Straight Story]

31. Well, if you miss her....

I can send ya some pics of her :rofl:

[TomInTib]

34. Stay away from my sister, asshole.

I've warned you before about that.

[The Straight Story]

36. Now there's a DuZy

Oh and tell her she left her undies on the bed and my wife is wondering where they came from....

[TomInTib]

37. Tell her they're mine.

I'm sure she will understand.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

41. folks, shame on you.

do you have any idea what a glass of single malt costs these days? not to mention the keyboard upon which it spewed?

LOL

[TomInTib]

42. Single Malt?....

come on down....


We will talk.....

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. cheers.

a single single,
one malt, one cube.

[KamaAina]

51. $500?!

I'd be lucky to get that to the Coast.

Mom, like your girlfriend, lives in NYC.

That'd be more like a grand.

I may never see her again.

And I just got screwed out of my last chance to get up that way for a conference. :grr:

[Parche]

10. mileage

You can double the mileage, and they will always get you on if there is full coach fare seats left

:hi:

[TomInTib]

14. It doesn't matter this Summer, if you want to fly, it's gonna cost you...

double mileage, anyway.

[TomInTib]

2. It's crazy-ville out there.

At SFO, there are big signs everywhere offering free domestic tickets to anyone who will accept a later flight.

[niyad]

3. and people wonder why I prefer to drive rather than fly.

and this is apart from all the tsa bs that treats us all as, not even potential, but actual, enemies.

[David__77]

4. Am I ignorant? HOW does this save fuel?

Would this really in any way reduce fuel consumption, which would only come with reducing air traffic? Just how does minimum stays save anything?

[niyad]

6. I think it is just another way to get us accustomed to big brother, in all its manifestations,

telling us what we may, or may not, do.

[El Supremo]

8. People who don't stay overnight are business travelers.

They generally pay less. Or that's the way I saw it explained elsewhere.

I want to know how this may affect candidates who barnstorm from town to town.

[RamboLiberal]

12. I'm still in favor of making it one damn fare for everyone!

Except for as I pointed out selling any empty seats last-minute to cover costs. I've always found the damn airline fare system maddening!

[David__77]

18. I'd think they'd just get rid of "reduced fares" then.

This is the kind of engineering that's really annoying. I had a non-work-related appointment across country last month and needed to get back right away.

[stompk]

20. business travelers pay less

but I thought that was to encourage more of them. I'd think business travelers would be their bread and butter.
why p1ss off the only people that HAVE to fly ?

[Scooter24]

22. It's actually the opposite,

Business travelers normally pay a premium for their flights because most travel is booked last-minute. Leisure travelers often will book months in advance to get the best rate possible.

For instance, a flight leaving tomorrow from DFW to Los Angeles will cost me almost $800 round-trip whereas the same flight in October would cost me about $300.

[El Supremo]

24. That's what I thought.

Maybe they are just eliminating all discounts for non-overnight trips.

[pokercat999]

54. My wife flies every week. She tries to book at least two or

three weeks in advance if possible. She usually stays on the East Coast where we live but starting July 6th she will be flying to Oroville, Ca every week. The only non-stop to Sacramento has already been booked full and there are no non-stops on the return flights. It's going to add at least a day to her work week. Normally she leaves Monday AM and returns Thursday PM. But going to CA she will have to leave Sunday early PM and the return flight will be overnight arriving home about 6 AM EDT Friday. Hopefully it will be a short term contract of only 4 weeks. Her usual contracts are about 12-16 months.

If she is within a six hour drive of the city where she is working she drives, unfortunately that hasn't happened very often.

[dysfunctional press]

46. actually business travellers usually pay more...

they help subsidize lower fares for leisure travellers.
airlines figure that most business travellers HAVE to fly- so they'll pay more to do so.
the internet has helped to change that model though- as teleconferencing, etc. became more viable.

[NashVegas]

58. And Business Travelers Are Subsidized By ... Guess Who?

When the "business expense" is written off?

[niyad]

5. dear united--you arrogant jerks, who in the HELL do you think you are to tell us what our travel

plans have to be?? how friggin' DARE you?????

rest assured that if, heaven forfend, I need to fly anywhere, it won't be on your airline, ever again--and you used to be my favourite carrier. except for the economic hardship it would cause all your employees, I wish you would go bankrupt.

[TomInTib]

11. They're also charging $100 for bags over 50#.

Jerks, for sure.

[kestrel91316]

23. $100???

So if I have a SINGLE checked bag, and maybe even NO carryon bag at all, they will charge me $100 if it's 51 lb???

Good thing I am traveling light in July to NOLA due to the heat.

[TomInTib]

25. Yep, I saw it at SFO on Wednesday morning.

Over 100#, they take you to the poorhouse.

Maybe $200, I think.

Be very careful.


By the way, when I travel with a heavy bag, I check in at curbside with a bundle of cash readily visible in my hand. Works almost every time.

[kestrel91316]

26. Where do you have CURBSIDE CHECK-IN???

I haven't been able to do that in years. Since 9/11. Have to go inside the terminal and stand in about three separate and all very long lines........

[TomInTib]

29. Baggage check. I never get in a ticketing/passenger check-in....

if I can help it.

But I am Executive Platinum with AA and they make all kinds of concessions because they think I am Somebody.

You would not believe...

I have always looked like someone, I just don't always know who. People ask me for my autograph all the time.

Americans are crazy.

[ForrestGump]

38. Curbside check-in is a racket, too

Now the airlines are charging two or three dollars per bag (I believe) as a surcharge for checking in there. When they started doing this the claim was that they were merely making sure that the skycaps out there got their tips but it turns out that the airlines were pocketing the cash and the skycaps weren't getting any cut of it. So now, essentially, you've got to pay the airline for curbside check-in and tip the skycap an appropriate amount as in days of yore.

I really don't care what airline apologists say: the major US airlines are greedy and have been for a long time. Perhaps it's too subtle for me, but I don't see how mandating minimum stays, for example, could possibly have anything to do with the price of oil. And you can guarantee that reductions in oil price won't mean that they then suddenly repeal their latest greed taxes (charging for not just the second checked bag but the first, ridiculous charges for paper tickets and booking via a real live person, charges for seat assignments, charges to redeem the frequent-flyer miles that have largely been a sham since the early '90s, anyway, etc, etc, etc).

In the end, they're cutting their own throats. Unfortunately, it's not the fatcats who'll pay, in any sense of the word: unpopular policies that rile people up mean that the poor employees at the ticket counter, at the gates, and aboard the aircraft will be the ones who have to deal with unhappy campers. And, of course, ultimately, the country pays and that really is a matter of national security. The USA probably needs a national airline, a nationalized carrier of the kind that seems to work in some other countries. As it stands, US airlines pale beside even the airlines of developing nations, at least in terms of service, and have for at least a couple of decades.

I am very seriously thinking about making my next 1500-mile trip a drive. Even if the price of gas and the minimum of one motel stay adds up to the $500 or so the ticket costs, as it most likely would right now for one person, being able to carry what I want and have the joy and freedom of the open road is worth a lot and, besides, I'd pay a premium to avoid having to deal with any of the morons who work for TSA, the pathetic brand of paranoia that has us surrender not just liberties but dignity in the name of spurious 'security,' and the avaricious airlines. And for two people, at least for two people who have the requisite time (actually, I can realistically do 1500 miles in about 20 hours, just twice what it often takes to fly the same distance if you count the trip to the airport, getting there early, a stopover, etc), a car trip is not only economically viable but likely to be far more pleasant as an overall experience...unless they don't like road trips, of course.

It'd sure be nice to have high-speed trains crossing this country. Leaving the country is another thing entirely, though (and increasingly a good idea).



EDIT: just realized that the $500 flight is now closer to $600, given that I'd check two bags, and if I had to pay a premium for exit row seating (I'm 6' 5", so that row's usually a positive for me) or a window seat it'd be even more. Now driving's already looking to already be the cheaper alternative, if the necessary time is available. Doesn't do me any good for my transPacific and other overseas journeys, though, dammit...

[neverforget]

47. I'm driving 900 miles on July 4. It will cost me about $180 one way.

I just checked on line for the tickets on the regional that flies into my destination: $1513.50. That's for 2 adults and 1 child. Even though gas is expensive, traveling by car for me is a bargain even if I spend $400 total on gas.

[sarcasmo]

56. We drive a thousand one way every spring, It runs about 220 each way.

You can't buy two tickets round trip for 440 anymore. Traveling by car is actually cheaper than flying, a scary thought.

[NashVegas]

59. I Flew For About $300, 1k Miles RT

Bought the tickets about 6 weeks ago, on Southwest. How did I get such a faboo deal? By getting up at 3:30 am on a Saturday morning.

Southwest is going to be the only airline left standing, because they run their business as if they enjoy having customers. I haven't flown in a year and was delighted by their new gate seating arrangments as well as the new boarding procedure.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Hey you do know that a bundle of cash

will also buy a ticket...odd posts.

[TomInTib]

35. I hate paying real money for tickets.

But I fear that miles will be dishonored at some point.

I have a gazillion of them.

[phantom power]

7. Buh bye.

[high density]

13. "Let's see, how can we piss off our customers a little further?"

"I know, we can arbitrarily limit their travel for no good reason!"
"Brilliant!"

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. How do overnight stays improve the bottom line?

Or are they adding a hefty charge for same-day return?

[housewolf]

16. This sounds like there's some "cahoots" going on between United & the hotel industry

Requiring people to stay over-night or weekends sounds like a big boon to other sectors of the travel industry... hotels, restaurants and car rental agencies.

I don't get how it helps them with fuel charges at all... I mean, why does it matter if I fly back today or tomorrow, it's the same amount of fuel, right?

This is very weird...

[ForrestGump]

39. I'll show them

I'll sleep in the airport. Or not sleep, rather.

Done it before. :P

[InkAddict]

49. At the point the airport reaches maximum occupancy...

you will go and sleep or not wherever the jackboots in one uniform or another tell your herd to go.

[RamboLiberal]

17. Meantime on United - United flight canceled after upset pilot refuses to fly

United canceled a flight from Salt Lake City Thursday afternoon after the pilot announced to passengers that he was too upset to fly, according to one passenger on board.
The pilot, who may have been involved in a labor-related dispute with colleagues, said that he didn't feel he could fly safely, said Paul Jacobson, an energy company executive who was aboard United Flight 416 to Denver.

-----

After the passengers were seated, the pilot made his announcement.

"I'm roughly paraphrasing here, but the pilot came on the PA and said, 'some of you may have witnessed an incident I was involved in at the gate. I'm not going to go into the details, but it was an interpersonal confrontation that upset me significantly to the point where I'm not focused enough to fly you to Denver. I feel like I may not be calmed and focused enough to fly to Denver for another hour,' " Jacobson said.

The passengers reacted to the pilot's announcement with a collective groan. "I'm going to give him credit for standing in front of people and saying that," Jacobson added. "Still it was a very unusual situation."

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-06-20-upset-united-pilot_N.htm

[dixiegrrrrl]

27. Oh god...the pictures going thru my mind right now....

the pilot had a hissyfit???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ForrestGump]

40. United makes ME too upset to fly

I only flew them once, as a codeshare with Air New Zealand. It was a transPacific flight back to the US (on the way down, I was on an Air New Zealand flight that was, as always, excellent) and it was heinous beyond description...everything from the plane itself, a neglected piece of junk with terrible seating, to the service and the attitudes of the attendants. I didn't sleep or even rest the whole time and spent most of the flight standing by a door and looking out the window, mingling with (at any one time) five to 20 or so people who were doing the same for the same reason. That's a long flight when you're standing all the way, like on some kind of city bus (to be fair, though, city buses tend to be cleaner than that jet).

Bleh. The largest carrier, supposedly, and one of the worst I've ever had the misfortune to fly.

[cobalt1999]

19. Interesting business approach...losing money, so let's make things harder for our customers.

What idiot correspondence business school grad thought that one up.

As a business traveler, I will now be sure to avoid United.

[Scooter24]

21. I'm one of those frequent business fliers

that will often take a 7am flight out of DFW and catch a 6pm return flight to make it home in time for a late dinner. This is ridiculous.

Because I travel mostly in first class, I wonder if the rules would apply since my fare is usually bought at a no-restriction, refundable rate. If it does apply then I truly hope American Airlines doesn't follow suit or I will quickly forfeit my AAdvantage Platinum Elite status.

[AndyTiedye]

44. Won't Affect You

They will always be delighted to sell you an unrestricted first class ticket if you are willing to pay for it.

First or Business class is the only way to be treated as other than cattle on an airplane these days.

[MadMaddie]

28. All I can say is the Airline industry is the master of it's demise.

They screw the consumer every chance they get.

The Hijackings would have never occurred if the Airlines would have put in the highly secured Doors. They went the cheap way and America payed for it.

Now they can't manage their costs so again screwing the consumer.

Oh well when the Middle class is only flying for emergency family events maybe the Industry will get it.

What about Business flyers who litteraly don't need to be somewhere for more than a day?

[InkAddict]

48. The Middle Class can send their condolences; the dead don't

really care if you attend their wakes though I suppose the rest of your relatives will talk about you if you don't show. They do that anyway. Births...since babies take nine months to arrive, one has plenty of time to plan ahead and make alternate ground travel arrangements. Also, remember that haste makes waste...perhaps the emergency will resolve on its own without your ministrations.

Business flyers: make sure you've got the corporate VIP credit card, pack lightly, there are stores in which to use that credit card at your destination; the truth is that business flyers are, for the most part disposable workers and execs, and there's nothing about "need" in their journeys...it's about the lust and greed, the wants, of the flyers, owners, and stockholders who have made the world their apple. Take a hefty bite! Good God, what if the plane were to go down? Would not the corp. find another body to do the tasks at which your presence is so "needed" at one end of the flight or the other. As flights are cut, you just might need to rearrange your schedule and enjoy the perks that credit card can provide while you wait for your flight or learn to fly (I understand it's a much shorter class if you don't want to learn to land)and buy your own plane and fuel--that's where that corp. credit card really comes in handy, LOL.

:banghead: They've set up their own failure.

[MadMaddie]

53. Ya got a point my friend....!!

[Tutonic]

32. The Airlines purchase oil on contract in quantities

And therefore, the price changes that we have experienced should not be occurring. I worked for an airport years ago and don't remember these commercial aircraft filling up at the pump like the small general aviation aircraft. Southwest Airlines to its credit entered into contract to purchase larger quantities of airline grade fuel than the remaining airlines so I still can't fathom the sharp increase every week in airline tickets. Its understandable that we are paying more at the pump because we have not locked in a contract rate like the airlines and are at the mercy of the oil industry. But United America, Delta, etc. purchase fuel on contract at least six months in advance of use and control their own use--therefore the weekly market fluctuations should not affect airline operations. Since supply is not the issue I've got to believe that some of these fare surcharges and increases are speculative greed based on an effort to increase quarterly gains and for some to recoup losses that occurred after 9-11.

[Angleae]

43. Yes they do, but

only southwest buys oil in quantities that last for years, other airlines buy oil for maybe a couple of months at a time but generally it's bought at current market price of whatever the airport service says it is.

[knixphan]

33. we need high-speed rail

[xyouth]

50. What we need is a great rail system.

By the time you get to the airport early go through security, get delayed on the tarmac, fly, make a connection, get to your destination and retrieve your luggage, you have blown the best part of a day. Your going to do nothing but sleep when you reach your destination. So sleep on a sleeper train and be awake when you get there. There are a lot of good jobs in revamping an entire rail system, and it will be good for the environment too.

[KamaAina]

52. And this helps me how, exactly?

:sarcasm:

[xyouth]

55. I don't know you well enough to answer that question.

But a fast train some nice people and a bar car is a civil way to travel.:toast:

[KamaAina]

57. Yes. indeed -- unless...

...you live in Hawai'i (hence "KamaAina"). Did you hear the one about the woman who called her travel agent and asked if Amtrak had any travel packages to Hawai'i? :rofl: