Georgia says Russian tanks violated truce

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgian officials charged Wednesday that Russian tanks had rolled into a strategic city and seized a military base inside Georgia, violating a freshly brokered truce intended to end a conflict that had bloodied and battered the U.S. ally and uprooted an estimated 100,000 people.

Russia immediately denied its tanks were in the Georgian city of Gori, but acknowledged that some Russian soldiers were there.

~snip~

Georgia's Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said that Russia had moved 50 tanks into Gori, a strategic town 15 miles from the border with South Ossetia, violating the new accord.

Russia's deputy chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn denied any tanks were in Gori. He said Russians went into the city to try to implement the truce with local Georgian officials but could not find any.

An APTN television crew in Gori saw some Russian armored vehicles Wednesday morning near a military base there. Puffs of smoke in the air indicated some military action.



Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gDNLWfQWKrQc48pITBUg9KT_6oVwD92HCANG0

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Georgia says Russians bombing, looting key city

TBILISI, Georgia - Georgia's Security Council chief says Russians have bombed and looted the city of Gori outside the breakaway province of South Ossetia in violation of the truce.

Alexander Lomaia says that the Russian military bombed Gori Wednesday morning and entered the city. The Russian military then let paramilitaries into Gori who started massive looting.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia;_ylt=ApG4wKsgEFaoqQSV89ieyzZvaA8F

[mediaman007]

1. They must have studied Bush/Cheney* for seven years!

The lies are obvious, but they know that no one is going to do anything to stop them.

In fact, Bush/Cheney* have lied to us so often, that we can't trust what they are saying either! Its sad that you can't believe your own government. But its the World that B/C* created.

[maddezmom]

2. CNN reporting that troops and tanks have left Gori and moving towards Tblisi

according to eye witnesses on the ground. But reporter also said they didn't seem hostile, the were waving, etc. :shrug:

[maddezmom]

4. CNN's Mathew Chance is traveling with Russian troops towards Tblisi

:shrug:

[maddezmom]

9. Chance is reporting that the Russians have turned off and no longer moving towards Tblisi

TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- A convoy of Russian armored personnel carriers was heading deeper into Georgia Wednesday, CNN Correspondent Matthew Chance reported.


Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili says Russia has continued to attack the city of Gori.

1 of 3 more photos » more photos » more photos » more photos » Chance, on the road with the Russian column, said it was moving slowly south from Gori.

Early fears that it was headed for the capital, Tbilisi, were allayed when the convoy turned down a side road.

Chance said CNN had been told by Georgian officials that the convoy was heading for an abandoned Georgian military base.

more:http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/13/georgia.russia.war/index.html

[Strelnikov_]

3. "However journalists in Gori . . . said they had seen no Russian tanks. "

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/13/georgia.russia.war/index.html

However journalists in Gori, the birthplace of former Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, said they had seen no Russian tanks. Residents there told the journalists they had earlier seen "some" Russian tanks, but not in large numbers.

A Russian military official also disputed Georgia's claims. He said Russian forces were at an abandoned Georgian artillery base near Gori, but not inside the town itself.


Only time will tell.

[maddezmom]

8. Russian troops on outskirts of Georgian town

Russian troops on outskirts of Georgian town
Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:49 AM BST
Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS <-> Text <+> TBILISI (Reuters) - Russian troops have set up at least two checkpoints on the outskirts of the Georgian town of Gori, witnesses said on Wednesday, in what Georgia said was a breach of a ceasefire.

An eyewitness said Russian troops had advanced south from South Ossetia to occupy an abandoned Georgian artillery base some 4-5 kilometres (2-3 miles) from Gori town centre.

A Reuters cameraman said he had seen a second Russian checkpoint on a road leading east from the town towards the Georgian capital Tbilisi.

Georgia had earlier accused Russia of sending dozens of tanks and armoured personnel carriers into the streets of Gori, the focus of Georgia's military buildup when fighting broke out last week in South Ossetia.

more:http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyid=2008-08-13T121431Z_01_LD105072_RTRUKOC_0_UK-GEORGIA-OSSETIA-GORI.xml

[dipsydoodle]

5. Violence flares in Georgian town

Violence has flared up in Georgia, where Russian tanks have been seen patrolling the town of Gori, says the BBC's Gavin Hewitt near the scene.

People leaving the town say there is looting going on involving South Ossetian separatists.

Another BBC reporter in the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, says many buildings there have been completely destroyed in the fighting.

A ceasefire is in place, but it seems to be very fragile, correspondents say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7558399.stm

Note - their reporter is "near the scene" and it states "People leaving the town "say" there is looting going on" I think the the problem is that reporters are not generally "at" the scene. As a result there will continue to be conflicting reports of exactly what's occuring in reality.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Note the passive voice

"Russian tanks have been seen patrolling..."

Oh, they "have been seen," have they? By whom? Certainly not the reporter, or you wouldn't get this tortured construction.

[maddezmom]

7. "Irregulars" attacking civilians in S.Ossetia - U.S. 13 Aug 2008 11:32:39 GMT

TBILISI, Aug 13 (Reuters) - The United States said on Wednesday it had received what it termed credible reports of continued violence in the South Ossetia region and urged Russia to restrain "irregular forces" from attacking civilians.

"We have credible reports of villages being burned, shootings and killings," the U.S. envoy to the region, Matthew Bryza, told a news briefing in the Georgian capital Tbilisi.

He urged Russia "to make sure their forces are doing nothing in terms of violence and to make sure they are doing everything possible to restrain irregular forces, South Ossetian or otherwise from violence against the peaceful population."

more:http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LD275951.htm


Now CNN reporting that Russian tanks were outside the city blocking roads, while the looting etc was taking place by others. :shrug:

[dipsydoodle]

10. Tskhinvali has effectively been destroyed

so I guess the South Ossetians may be exacting retribution. No comment other than to say that my favorite book just happens to be The Count of Monte Cristo.

Once again however we get the statement "received what it termed credible reports" I'm sure there are a whole lot of mobile phones within that area some with cameras. Wouldn't be too much to expect the real truth with pics from somewhere instead of just hearsay.

[RedLetterRev]

11. Another question to ask (and just askin'...)

would be just how many of those 20,000 Blackwater troops in the immediate area are scurrying just ahead of the Russians. I'm still believing that they had as much to do with Russia going in as anything and that Cheney "hisself" is being put on direct notice. The Great Game for that last huge pot of oil ain't over by a long shot.

[WriteDown]

12. Saw video and heard this on....

BBC this morning. This is bad.

[WriteDown]

13. Russian convoy heads into Georgia, violating truce

Source: AP

TBILISI, Georgia - A Russian military convoy thrust deep into Georgia on Wednesday and Georgian officials said Russian troops bombed and looted the crossroads city of Gori, violating a freshly brokered truce intended to end the conflict.

In the west, Georgia's weakened military acknowledged its soldiers had pulled out entirely from Abkhazia, leaving both breakaway regions at the heart of the fighting in the hands of Russian-backed separatists.

Even as the Russian troops moved deep into Georgian territory from the separatist region of South Ossetia, a few dozen fighters from Abkhazia offered their own brazen challenge, planting their flag on a bridge over the Inguri River — outside the rebel territory.

"The border has been along this river for 1,000 years," separatist official Ruslan Kishmaria told AP on Wednesday. He said Georgia would have to accept the new border and taunted the departed Georgian forces by saying they had received "American training in running away."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/georgia_russia

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In a previous thread I stated that Russia defied my expectations by stopping when they did. I wish to take that back now.

[David Dunham]

14. Lieing Russian scumbags

[WriteDown]

15. Reminds me a bit of the 7 years war...

Where Japan scheduled a peace summit in Japan with Korean leaders and then launched a sneak attack while they were there.

[bemildred]

16. I didn't think we had a truce yet, or even a cease fire.

I thought what we had was an agreement (in principle) on how to resolve the dispute.

[bemildred]

17. Georgian villages looted as conflict ceasefire threatened

This is useful:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNBg25n8qYjQyiQ-osgnmBJH6xSQ

[WriteDown]

18. Sounds like your standard rape and pillage...

This is the stuff that nightmares are made of.

[bemildred]

20. We need some dead nuns in the road, unplugged baby incubators, to give this more dash.

http://i4.ebayimg.com.nyud.net:8090/04/i/06/c9/00/34_1_b.JPG

[Strelnikov_]

19. I'd hold off on that retraction for a bit

It seems the reporting is simply passing along rumors, at best.

The Russians claim they have occupied an artillery base outside Gori, which makes sense from a force protection standpoint.

I could also see them making armed recon into Gori to make sure no threat is developing. Again, makes sense from a force protection standpoint.

Both of the above are a long way from armored columns making their way toward the Georgian capital. And both of the above fit within the 'reporting' about the Russians moving on Gori.


Bottom line, us proles don't know what is going on due to the shit, sensationalist 'real time' reporting we get today. Only time will tell.

[WriteDown]

21. I agree...

but the BBC and AFP reports have me worried. I always like to wait for all the fact to come out though.

[bemildred]

22. AFP appeared to have reports of actual people seeing things.

And the quotes from both sides were useful in understanding what is going on. Saakashili seems to want to prolong the situation in hopes of getting more help or improving the new status quo that will occur when everyone stops shooting. The Russians look a bit flat-footed for the first time since Friday, although it is hard to be sure with the mighty windbags of the MSM hooting at full volume now.

[WriteDown]

23. If you actually go over to the region...

you will see that the Russians believe that they have god-given right to occupy this territory and subjugate the inferior Georgians. That is what scares me so much.

[bemildred]

24. That is not likely (me going over there.)

However it seems worth pointing out that that attitude is not something unique to Russians, or invented by Russians. The USA is probably the single most-successful colonial enterprise in history, for example, and has bases and outposts and whathaveyou all over the world. Purely for defensive purposes, of course, after all we have so much to defend.

I don't mean to suggest I approve of everything they do, or to suggest that they are all swell fellows, I just don't see that they are different from anybody else in that regard. I do occasionally visit Russian sites for news and read the comments, so I am well aware of the bigotry that can be found there. But you can find the same sort of thing here (Little Green Footballs) or in France or Israel or lots of other places.

I am much more interested in what the Russian government will decide to do, in the same way that I am more interested in what the US government will decide to do, as opposed to worrying about the atavistic tendencies of your average individual US soldier. It smacks too much of war hysteria to be going on in this way at such an early stage in the dispute with stereotypes about what the Russian are all like.

[WriteDown]

25. There is a big difference between the US and Russia though...

The US does have a lot of bases and we could use a steep and strategic reduction, but the US does not rule these countries with an iron fist. I've traveled throughout Europe, Asia(only Japan), and Latin America and to see a true totalitarian regime is action is staggering. Just ask the people who were forced to cleanup the Chernobyl disaster. They were not Russians. They were the inferior class.

[bemildred]

26. I gather you don't like Russians? nt

[WriteDown]

27. Love Russians....

Have several Russian friends. Elitism is never a welcome attribute though.

[bemildred]

28. Same rules for everybody, I agree. nt

[maddezmom]

29. Russian feint toward Tbilisi shows truce fragile

Russian feint toward Tbilisi shows truce fragile
By MATTI FRIEDMAN – 16 minutes ago

ROAD TO TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Fifty battered Russian army trucks and armored personnel carriers roared without warning down the highway toward the country's capital, making it clear that a day-old cease-fire would not keep Russia from moving freely through Georgia.

"Come with us, beauty, we're going to Tbilisi!" one of the soldiers bellowed at a photographer in a sleeveless shirt along the road. Other troops grinned and brandished their weapons, and one hung his bare feet out the back of a truck. Another, a machine gunner riding atop an armored vehicle, wore a bandanna and a black T-shirt with the word "Russia" emblazoned in the red, blue and white colors of the national flag.

Asked from the side of the road, the soldiers shouted that their destination was Tbilisi — "With no detours," one said. But then they veered abruptly into a field about an hour's drive from the capital and camped conspicuously within sight of the road before the sun went down.

The message was hard to miss: The Russian military is still the landlord in swaths of Georgia, and its forces remain in easy striking distance of the country's capital.

more:http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iMEkg2EOkT93rxDRnbmgEdMwKSvQD92HK9682

[Regret My New Name]

30. This whole situation is confusing as hell...

What a mess.