Parliament shut down till Jan. 26 (Canada)

[Newsjock]

Source: Globe and Mail

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper has obtained Governor-General Michaëlle Jean's consent to temporarily shut down Parliament, a move that allows him to avoid a confidence vote next week that was expected to defeat his government.

It's a blow for the Liberal-NDP coalition, backed by the separatist Bloc Québécois, that was seeking to replace the minority Conservative goverment.

The development buys time for Mr. Harper to assemble a January stimulus budget that he hopes will discourage the multiparty alliance from taking him down at that time.

... About 50 demonstrators greeted him as his black vehicle entered the gates of Rideau Hall, most of them cheering on the Prime Minister.

The vast majority appeared to be Tory staffers or Conservative Party members. They were chanting slogans such as "No secret deal!", a reference to the coalition-support agreement by the Liberals, NDP and Bloc Québécois that would oust Mr. Harper and install Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion in his place.

Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081204.wparliamentday1204/BNStory/politics/home

[achtung_circus]

1. FUCK!!! nt

[HereSince1628]

2. Hmm, Wasn't Mr. McKenzie's rebellion against Crown interference brought about by a recession?

Like most Americans I have almost no knowledge of Canadian History.

Maybe this recession is a time to reconsider again what it means to not have true sovereignity?

[Posteritatis]

5. We picked the GG too

Jean was actually appointed by Prime Minister Martin a few years ago; this isn't exactly Elizabeth micromanaging our affairs. The last pretenses of that ended in 1982.

I'm annoyed at this, but it could have gone either way and I wouldn't have been surprised. Politically speaking, this whole crisis was uncharted territory for Canada, so there's no strong precedents for what would happen, and there's very little keeping the opposition from shutting Harper down in January.

[enlightenment]

7. Is the idea that if Harper can prorogue now,

the budget will be passed (or the economic situation improved) enough by January to give him a hope of avoiding getting kicked to the curb?

[Posteritatis]

13. No Parliament until January, when round two of this whole debacle begins

I don't get why he prorogued, frankly; in practice he's not likely to do or say much that will cool down the opposition, he can't do anything since Parliament's adjourned, and the budget fight's as likely as not to get him no-confidenced back out again anyway. He hasn't really won anything here, just delayed it.

[iverglas]

25. that much is obvious

Like most Americans I have almost no knowledge of Canadian History.

Anyone who did have any knowledge would not say ignorant and insulting things like:

Maybe this recession is a time to reconsider again what it means to not have true sovereignity?

I'm sorry. But it really is just ignorant and insulting.

[Astrad]

3. Wow, Governor General Michelle-Jean pulls a Katherine Harris.

Who'd have thunk it!?

[Puzzler]

11. No, she's not pulling a Katherine Harris...

... as I understand it, constitutionally she could have chosen one of three options:



1) close parliament

2) call for a new election

3) ask the opposition parties to form another government


Usually a new election is called for when this happens, which is why Harper (I think) was caught by surprise. He didn't expect a no-confidence challenge so quickly, mainly because the opposition Liberals had not got around to voting in a new leader.

[Astrad]

15. Essentially she closed parliament to try and salvage the minority

government. Although constitutional it looks political. Minority governments can and do fall all the time. IMO there's nothing special about this one that it deserved this kind of intervention.

[Puzzler]

16. My point simply was...

... that it was a constitutional option. Personally I disagree with her choice... I would have preferred to see a coalition government formed. This could still happen (I hope).

[iverglas]

27. No, she closed Parliament. Period.

We have no idea why she did it, and there is no reason whatsoever to conclude that she wanted to assist Harper -- and every reason to think she has no favourable thoughts about Harper whatsoever.


Although constitutional it looks political.

It would have looked at least equally political if she had refused. Harper, formally, had the confidence of Parliament -- there had been no non-confidence vote.

It truly was uncharted waters.

I think she made the wrong decision. I think she should have deferred the decision until after the vote. But my opinion is not based on any authority, because there is none.

[iverglas]

26. in response to Harper's request to prorogue

All she could have done was say yes or no, actually, at this point.

Had she said no and he lost the non-confidence vote, new election / new government would have been the options.


But really (Katherine Harris remark) -- doncha know? It's all about the US ... no matter what it's really about. And things that happen in other countries can't be on their own models and for their own reasons and according to their own dynamics. They have to be mimicking the US, all the time.

[Endangered Specie]

28. Seems amazing an unelected official can have such power

:shrug: each system has its faults I guess.

[iverglas]

29. and the US Supreme Court is ...

... why, elected, of course.

[Endangered Specie]

31. the suprme court can't shut down Congress.

or call for new elections.

they aren't directly elected, but they are picked and confirmed by elected officials (president then senate), how is the gov. general selected?

your point was...?

[iverglas]

32. snork

No, they can just fix elections.


how is the gov. general selected?

If you don't know that, why would you be commenting?

[iverglas]

33. to help you out

The GG may prorogue Parliament only on the advice of the Prime Minister.

And the whole point is that this is what the PM advised her to do, and there was no precedent for refusing to act on the advice of the Prime Minister.

Id est, this "unelected official" doesn't actually have this power.


The contempt for democracy and Parliament must be laid squarely at the Prime Minister's doorstep.

[Endangered Specie]

34. as I understood it she could do any of 3 options:

- prorogue
- call for new elections
- allow the coalition opposition to form a gov't

advice or no advice from the PM, seems to me that if a majority wants to form a govt, they should be allowed too.

Whats the point of dragging this thing out anyway, won't the opposition just do a no confidence motion as soon as it gets back in? Seems like this move would piss Canadian voters off more.

[iverglas]

35. no, you understand it completely incorrectly

I did already explain this in this thread.

She could prorogue or not prorogue when requested by the PM.

She could not "call new elections" UNLESS (a) she was asked to do so by the PM, or (2) the PM had formally lost the confidence of the House (on a vote) and there was no other member of Parliament who could show s/he had the confidence of the House to form a government.

She could not "allow the coalition opposition to form a gov't" unless the PM had formally lost the confidence of the House.

None of those things had happened. She was asked by the PM to prorogue the House. She could say Yes or No. (She could also have reserved decision, I think, but that would have been tantamount to saying No if she reserved until after a non-confidence vote succeeded.)

If the Gov Gen actually could call elections, or oust a sitting government, on her own whim, we really would have a problem.


advice or no advice from the PM, seems to me that if a majority wants to form a govt, they should be allowed too.

Yes, well, do feel free to offer your services to our head of state next time she's looking for constitutional expertise.

You might want to get some, first, of course.


Whats the point of dragging this thing out anyway, won't the opposition just do a no confidence motion as soon as it gets back in? Seems like this move would piss Canadian voters off more.

There are Canadian voters who don't understand constitutional conventions and parliamentary tradition any better than you do. A lot of them seem to think Harper was actually elected PM. They're mistaken, but then many voters are often mistaken about many things. I gather there are voters in the US who think Obama is a Muslim ...

For a variety of reasons, many people don't like the idea of a change of government without another election. One is that they are idiots who think we have a presidential system, as above. Another is that they are genuinely concerned about stability, particularly in the present economic circumstances. A common one is that they have no confidence whatsoever in the present Liberal leader to perform as Prime Minister. Some don't like the idea of the Liberals throwing in their lot with the NDP; some don't like the idea of the Bloc having a say in anything (although the fact is that the Bloc's votes have been essential to the Conservatives themselves many times in the recent past). Put them all together and you can get a majority of the electorate opposed to replacing the Conservatives without an election, even if for very different, and sometimes irrational, reasons.

[sharp_stick]

4. It's not that bad IMO

it only slows things down a bit, I'd be willing to wait. Especially if the Liberals/NDP could figure out what they want to do the day after they take power. Perhaps start getting to work on an alternate budget?

I really wish the Liberals could find a way to do this without involving the pricks from the BQ though. Dealing with Duceppe just adds a real odor to anything.

[acmavm]

6. Maybe they'll build up an even bigger following and gain more supporters

after this move?

Is that possible? Could this HELP?

[Posteritatis]

14. I don't really think anyone won in this whole thing...

It's not concluded, just postponed. Folks will have their holidays, come back in January, and basically go "Okay, where were we?" before once again remembering that the government and opposition benches are two sword-lengths apart for a reason.

[formercia]

10. I have lots of family in the BQ

I jokingly call it the 'Land of short pompous men, and the women who ridicule them.'

[sharp_stick]

12. Damn, that fits them to perfectly n/t

[formercia]

8. Will Harper ask Junior for military intervention?

He seems desperate. :rofl:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

9. A very dangerous precedent

The Prime Minister can shut down Parliament whenever he thinks he's going to lose a Confidence vote.

[villager]

17. Canada suspends parliament (to prevent vote on Harper)

Source: BBC


Canada halts parliament amid row


Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has won a bid to suspend parliament, blocking an opposition attempt to topple his new government.

The governor general agreed to Mr Harper's request, unprecedented in the country, after talks.

If the request had been rejected, he would have had to step down or face a confidence vote he was sure to lose.

Opposition parties had called the vote for Monday, accusing the government of failing to shore up the economy.

Governor General Michaelle Jean agreed to prorogue - or suspend - parliament until 27 January when the government is set to present its budget.

<snip>

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7765206.stm

[endarkenment]

18. Well now, Canada just crossed the line.

Interesting.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. O' Canada!

[fasttense]

20. Seems that Canada's conservative party is walking the line between legal

and illegal. I wonder where we have seen that before from a conservative party?

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Time to hit the streets Canada! That's your bush v Gore Supreme Court over-ride

moment.

[Lasher]

22. Oh no, this sounds like something I would expect to see in the US.

I guess it's to expected these days when you put a conservative in charge.

[bemildred]

23. The Tories are going to regret this. nt

[whirlygigspin]

24. Harper learned his lesson well, sorcerers apprentice indeed

who needs a stinkin' Parliament

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. How will people get the funk? We want the funk. Gotta have that funk

;)