Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Former Treasury chief O'Neill issues warning of potential economic disaster

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 05:41 PM
Original message
Former Treasury chief O'Neill issues warning of potential economic disaster
Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

If the United States doesn't get its finances in order, the coming years will make the current recession "look like a child's birthday party," said former Treasury secretary and Alcoa chairman Paul O'Neill.

"We're headed for the wall at lightning speed. And every day that we don't deal with that set of problems is another day closer to absolutely vaporizing our economy," he said.

"Not to overstate the problem."

Mr. O'Neill, in his typically pointed and outspoken manner, assessed the state of America's economy at length yesterday in an interview with the Post-Gazette. Regarding the "vaporizing" of our economy, he was referring to the country's estimated $53 trillion in unfunded liabilities, coming due over several decades. But he didn't paint a much rosier picture for the short term, outlining the series of mistakes that have left the American finance, auto and housing industries in shambles, and have poisoned the markets from Europe to Asia, from South America to Russia.

"We've been building the problem for a very long time," he said, and much of the problem can be traced to an overall loosening of American standards when it comes to debt. It used to be that home mortgages were limited to people who could afford a 20 percent down payment; it used to be that a company would as a matter of principle, not to mention financial health, minimize its debt.

Now, over-leveraging is the norm, from Wall Street companies to homeowners to Americans subsisting on credit spun out of their home equity or, worse, borrowed outright from the credit card companies.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08339/932577-28.stm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. The bill for the Iraq war is now due and payable n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. The open open tab for these wars has just begun. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. fuck it.
let's throw all our money into one thing, spaceships.

we can go across the galaxy teaching everyone how to fuck themselves royally with foreign debt.

and charge them out the ass for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. (carrying jet fuel to the ship)

where you wannit?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. They tried to run the economy on junk food
Ie: Service Industry, Offshore Labor and "Financial Management"

The meat and potatoes aren't there. Until they are, expect diabetic comas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. That's pretty accurate!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Gee, who could have predicted this?
(Answer: lots of people, none of then insider bigshots.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for this diary. I keep hearing Ross Perot in the background.
This will be the first major depression the US has had since it's agrarian/industrial days when many people lived on the land. Today, we're in urban areas. I can't imagine what it will be like for
food to be short, fuel to be hard to find, and no jobs. Where will the urban population go to
survive?

Ross Perot was right. Our trade policy decimated our manufacturing, and our credit policy and
lack of regulation (thanks to Phil Gramm and Congress) let us live 'as if we were doing great'
but solely on credit.

This unraveling is going to be amazing to live through, for the employed and unemployed alike.

Hope we can help eachother as best we can, and force Congress to open it's eyes to the needs
of ordinary Americans, not just CEOs and the banks and Wall Street.

Good Luck. This will be worse than fighting a war overseas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. their eyes are open and they are screwing people on purpose-the predator class at work
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Sure are. Congress doesn't give a shit about the financially struggling American.
If bankruptcy reform didn't tell you that, their current showering the banks with trillions of taxpayer dollars should do it. They care more about their campaign finance donors, their friends, cronies and those who will give them highly-paid jobs after their terms in Congress end (as long as they serve the interests of those who will give them those jobs).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. one of the first things they did 8 years ago was made it much harder to
look into congresscrooks personal finances. So i would not be surprised at all if someone like barney streetwhore frank was sitting on a 100 million dollar cayman account
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. They are all on the take. I'm convinced of that. No question.
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 01:31 PM by closeupready
I don't trust any of them.

Well, okay, I'm being hyperbolic, but as a group, I don't trust them. Someone like, say, Sanders, I like and trust. Or Barbara Boxer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. wrong place
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 06:19 PM by ooglymoogly
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Congress IS the predator class....
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 06:30 PM by ooglymoogly
They feed from the same trough as the one they slop the pigs on wall st; With the open ended trillion dollars of tainted rotting roughage and I hope they choke on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
4_TN_TITANS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. Ross Perot was dead on...
about where the globalization trend would lead us. I've often wondered what would have happened if the country had been in the hands of a responsible business man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'd like to see Paul O'Neil playing some part in the administration
He proved to be a patriot when he left George Jr. behind, unlike those who stuck in there and followed orders.

I think he's got a good head on his shoulders and Obama would benefit from his voice. I wonder why he's never been mentioned.

David
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Blind Squirrel Finding Nut
He's still an economic troglodyte. His philosophy and the theories in which he believes are effectively discredited.
The Professor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I wonder the same.
It seems Obama has chosen an understudy of Rubin and Summers. But O'Neil was a responsible chairman. Isn't that why he was fired?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. He was 'fired' because he said and saw things
bushies didn't want to hear.

And he went to Africa/Asia with Bono, recognizing need for world-wide solutionms.

He SHOULD be part of the solution; I've thought that for a while.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. He was one of the few.....
if not the ony one I liked in the Bush Administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
27. "Good head on his shoulders"? Uh, no. Read this.
http://www.fair.org/activism/o%27neill.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0520-04.htm

Abolish Social Security? End taxes on corporations?

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susu369 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. Thank you for those links
here's another one:
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/06/07/oneill/print.html

Personally, I would not buy a used car from O'Neill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. He Still Wants To Gut SS and Medicare
His concerns aren't the economy or gov't revenue. He still wants to get rid of the so-called "entitlements".

He's a tool.
The Professor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. He's really on the ball
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. Sometimes, there just aren't enough rolling eyes smilies
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Okay, but just as long as rich people don't have to pay taxes. That's first and foremost.
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Porschenut1066 Donating Member (348 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. We could collapse just like the Soviet Union
Believe it! Our dollar could become worthless outside the USA.
Look what happened in the USSR. Only difference is that they still had huge oil and gas reserves to fund their recovery which took 10 years or so, we do not have the luxury of domestic oil and gas reserves like that. Our entire life style depends on having access to oil to grow our food, deliver our food to the super markets, to get to work, school, everything depends on transport and transport depends on oil.
Think how you would survive if the dollar became worthless abroad so we could not import oil. We could use our own oil but the price would be perhaps $50 per gallon and the shops would be empty. The union would probably break up just like the USSR california becoming one nation, groups of states combining to form new unions, every state a new passport and perhaps Georgia attacking its neighbor in the north South Carolina!! Boy oh boy do these republican policies have something to answer for. The total disintegration of the USA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blutodog Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Could happen
If it happens I hope NJ joins Canada so we get Nat'l health. being joined to the south keeps us all @ the level of the ignorant red necks that have ruined this country. We should have cut them loose 140 yrs. ago if u ask me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. If the US goes, so will Canada, it is to depended on the US in terms of Trade
Thus your option of joining Canada will have no affect, what ever country you end up in (And I suspect the US will stay more or less one nation) it will be hurt.

AS to a break up, the most logical breakup would be California, the Colorado River Valley and the Rio Grand River valley (With a fourth potential being the Columbia/Snake River area). The rest of North America, south of the McKenzie River/Hudson bay AND North of Mexico consists of two drainage system that are interconnected and have been interconnected for trade purposes for at least 2000 years (Pre-columbian records are hard to find, but trade was being done for at least the last 2000 years maybe earlier). The present Canada-US border is artificial, it uses navigable lakes as a border. Such Navigable lakes like navigable Rivers unite people, it does NOT divide people (People can move on the water and along its flat edges, providing easy transportation between any area on or near such unnavigable rivers or lakes). Thus when France took over Central North America, France held from Quebec to Louisiana. Lack of Population cause it to lose out to the English Speaking population from the East Coast, and once across the Appalachian Mountains the Ohio, Mississippi and Great Lakes River and Lake System was settled within a biblical generation (i.e. 40 years 1780-1820). Britain managed to hold onto Canada in the Revolution, but could not and did not prohibit it from becoming economically part of the US by at the latest 1850 (When the Dollar was clearly the unit of transaction in Canada).

Given this tendency to trade and the ease of transportation, I expect most of the US to stay together. The East Coast will lose to much if it cuts itself off from the the above area (lets call New France for lack of a better term) and New France will lose to much opportunity for trade with Europe and the rest of the World if the East coast went it own way.

The Columbia/Snake River system is harder to get to from "New France", but once across it opens up trade with the rest of the US for the Columbia/Snake River system AND opens up the Far east to New France.

The questionable parts are California, Colorado River System and the Rio Grand River System. These areas have high Mexican populations and will be pulled in two directions, Mexico and New France. Northern California will want to be part of "New France", Mexico is to far away (People forget Sutter of Sutter's Mill frame obtain his property where he found gold on from the RUssians headquarters in Alaska NOT the Mexican in San Francisco, the Russians had a force not far from the creek he was on and considered it they territory, Spanish grants were to the South).

Unlike Northern California with its long history tied in with what was North of it and its later history tied in with the Railroad that connected it to "New France", Southern California will be more torn. Southern California will want to be part of Northern California (Do to the water concern) but also drawn to the Colorado River (Do to water concerns). The Colorado empties into the Gulf of Cortes which is part of Mexico, and control of the water flowing in that Gulf will be a concern to Mexico, and thus the Colorado River will be a concern to Mexico. Thus the Colorado River Valley will be divided between going with New France and Mexico. The Rio Grande River valley will have the same pulls, even today much of the water in the lower Rio Grande does NOT come from its headwaters in the Rocky Mountains (Most of that water is pulled from it while before it hits El Paso Texas), but from Rivers that flow into the Rio Grande from Mexico. Thus control and say into those rivers will pull the Rio Grande Valley toward Mexico.

That is a fact we must accept, the above two river Valleys and Southern California is pulled to Mexico do to concerns about water (and water is the reason Mexico will be concerned about the same three areas). At the same time, the best Railroad link in the area is NOT north-south, but East-West, between New Orleans and the Mississippi river system and San Diego Harbor, which provided access not only to these areas to both New France, Europe via New Orleans but also Asia via San Diego. These areas have been in the US since 1848 legally and for commercial/trade purposes since the 1820s (With the exception of Southern California which flow to Mexico along the Pacific Ocean and the lower Rio Grande Valley which border Mexico and is closer to the Mexican valley then it is to New Orleans). Yes, we will NEVER see a return to the pre-1846 borders of the US and Mexico, to much of that area was and is part of "New France" (East Texas is clearly part of "New France" as is the whole Red River Valley). Colorado, Northern New Mexico and Northern Arizona has been under US economic Control since the 1820s, even then part of New France (The Spanish had kept the French out of the area, but required the use of force, a force that cease to exist in 1821 when Mexico became independent of Spain). The closet we will see as to those borders is efforts to hold both Rivers tributaries controlled by the same Government that controls the rest of each river (And given the water crisis on the area, might occur, leading to a division of the state of Colorado, and the Northern States of Mexico with most of New Mexico going to what Country controls the Rio Grande and Arizona going to whatever country that controls the Colorado River.

The big question mark in such a re-drawing of the border is that Mexico has its own problems, tied in with the drop in oil production in the Mexican oil fields (Covered over the last few years by the huge increase in price, but made even more clear by the recent drop in price). Mexico is about to explode, its central government has lost control of the money it has used to keep the country running since the 1930s and the Rich do not want to see their taxes increase. While the US may dissolve, Mexico may proceed the US into such dissolution. Mexico will come out of it, as did Russia and as will the US, but the issue is how. If Mexico goes first and recovers first then the above change in the border is possible, the people living in that area will want any form of stable government by then. If Mexico does NOT recover first (It is unimportant who goes first, the key will be who recovers first) then the border may see an extension to the south as both River Valley systems seek stability even if that means annexation into the US of land presently in Mexico (a third possibility exists, some sort of two new mini-states centered along those two rivers, as those areas stabilize before either the US or Mexico, thus become like Andorra between France and Spain, both and neither.

My point is Canada will see itself become part of the US no matter what happens, it exists as an independent nation do the the fact the British managed to hold onto it in 1783, as an independent country it has never, economically, really been independent of the US, even when Canada was under Direct British Rule. The reason Canada has not been economically independent is that it holds one half of the lesser half of the Great lakes- Mississippi River system I called "New France" above (I.e. the US controls ALL of the Mississippi, except for a small piece that enters and exits Canada, and Canada controls only the northern half of the Great Lakes, the lesser of these two LARGE transportation system, which have to be viewed together). The primary draw on Canada is this huge transportation system, and there is NOTHING to draw Canada away from it. Furthermore Canada is CLOSER to it then either the US East Coast or the Columbia/Snake River system (And both of those areas are drawn to "New France".

My point is Canada may join the lower 48, but the South will stay in the Union no matter what we do. Canada might get the US to adopt such universal health insurance, but as long as the South refuses to provide such service, there will be fear that people in the South will move to a state with such health care, thus no US States will adopt such health care unless all of the states do (The two exceptions is Alaska, which I believe is unlikely and California). Both States are fairly isolated from states with high populations (Alaska does NOT border another state and California borders Nevada and Arizona, states with low populations. California also borders Oregon, which has a sizable population but it is manageable if California adopted universal health insurance given the short border AND the much larger population of California compared even to Oregon. Thus annexation by Canada (Which may be how it happens but it will be all of the States of "New France" and the East Coast NOT just the American North) will not occur until either the US has Universal Health Insurance or Canada drops it. Geography trumps politics and the key piece of Geography in North America is what I called above "New France". The US may lose the Colorado and Rio Grande River, it might even lose Northern California and Columbia/Snake River valleys (The later two will only be temporary at best, quickly getting re-annexed or becoming like Canada is today). Don't look to such a disaster and dissolution to provide Universal Health Insurance, it will not happen do to any dissolution and redrawing the borders of the Nations of North America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
45. this is by design, and i think they want to bring slavery back
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WoodyM Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. O’Neil was pushed
from the Treasury because he would not support Bush’s second round of tax cuts for the rich.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. Indeed! - Paul O'Neill death watch, 2001
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 02:14 PM by TheBorealAvenger
The general dissatisfaction with O'Neill has reached some sort of crescendo in the aftermath of his highly public humiliation at the hands of the Senate Finance Committee, which called in O'Neill's Democratic predecessor, Robert Rubin, to join Alan Greenspan last week in a closed-door briefing to which O'Neill wasn't invited. Ouch, babe! A few days later, the Wall Street Journal, a publication whose news staff is usually reluctant to alienate any sitting Treasury secretary, said on its front page that O'Neill is "often criticized for lacking sufficient credibility with financial markets." Double ouch! Today, the New York Times follows up with a story by Joseph Kahn arguing that O'Neill has little influence over the Bush administration's economic policy (a point the Journal piece, which ran yesterday, also argued). This is a highly unusual, some would say untenable, situation for a Treasury secretary to find himself in.





Why is O'Neill being shunned? In truth, many of the criticisms seem unfair. O'Neill annoyed tax-cut true believers early on by stating that the Bush tax cut wouldn't provide immediate stimulus to the economy. That's absolutely true; we are now very likely at the beginning of a recession, albeit one that Chatterbox judges likely to be short due to the massive Keynesian spending occasioned by the World Trade Center towers' destruction. In the Times story, O'Neill is also knocked for having told a TV interviewer that he didn't think the economy was headed for recession. Apparently, this made him look like a fool. But if O'Neill had said the economy was headed for recession, he surely would have been criticized for helping to bring one on.
http://www.slate.com/id/1008386/
________________
To Paul O'Neill's credit is that he wanted to do something about climate protection. His book with Ron Suskind was a kick to the bush head.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. So when do we start calling them crooks no ....
matter what party they're from? When do we impeach Nancy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. She should be. She's worthless.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. It also used to be that our dollar had more buying power and people were plentifully employed.
Then came Milton Friedman and then Ronald Reagan. The End. 28 straight years of repeated Laissez-Fail and the boom/bubble/crash pattern; like a broken record skipping over and over and over again, each crash worse than the one that preceded it.

I mean, hey, go figure we're in the mess they caused; after all, the past 28 years has seen:

- an economy primarily built on war/defense, pharmaceuticals, insurance, debt investment, technology and risky financial instruments; with the exception of technology, all unstable, speculative sectors and concentrate wealth and security on the top of the chain,

- Pretty much every social program either being cut or de-funded; resulting in poor schools, crumbling infrastructure and a social safety net that isn't worth the paper it's non-existent plan is printed on,

- With the exception of the Clinton years, taxes on the wealthy getting lower and lower with each passing year, which is part of the reason for a 10 trillion dollar increase in the national debt (the other part being worthless, illegal and greed-based wars) and affecting the economy with the boom/bubble/crash pattern rather than steady job creation and real wealth building,

- Manufacturing, Automotive and General Industry in the US going the way of the Dodo, resulting in several million displaced workers, many of whom will be experiencing long periods of un/under-employment,

- College costs skyrocketing while college degrees (thanks to there being substantially less jobs available than college-educated workers that can fill them) becoming all but worthless,

- Corporations being overrun by Friedmanite bean-counters who refuse to veer from this predatory plan that has failed the overall economy for that same amount of time (you know, unless you happen to be well-monied . .. then it works out just fine),

- Incomes of the wealthy increasing anywhere from 29 to 1000 percent while the average worker makes, in real dollars, the same income he/she did in 1973 (this same condition was prevalent in the Great Depression as well),

- Job security becoming non-existent in many American occupational sectors, which now require massive amounts of expensive training to even get entry to, making it next to impossible to switch careers if needs be,

- Offshore out/in-sourcing replacing American citizens getting paid liveable wages and jeapordizing the future of at least 14 million jobs by 2015 according to one survey.

But hey, just ignore me. I'm only talking common sense here. I guess cities and states don't need manufacturing or other industries because the high-paying, high-benefit, high-job-security SERVICE sector will make up the difference. Businesses don't need customers, the economy doesn't need a middle class, and the rich people need not pay taxes. After all, they need that money so they can create jobs and operate their businesses with the honesty and responsibility you'd expect from people so high up on the food chain.

There's a lot to be said for plutocracies. :sarcasm:

By all means, CEOs, continue to go about your stupid-assed way of doing things and watch as the country turns into one big Lorain, Ohio. But you don't care, because "you got yours" . . . right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. He told the truth before
and got shown the door for his troubles. Good man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. He is a day late and about $750 trillion short, the monetary system is what is the problem
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. a lot of this debt is magnified by interest
control that sensibly, & cease Pentagon taxes either by 50% or more, refill at the State level the coffers-BEWARE PRIVATE BANKS-what have they done lately? This is like the idiot Calwin program which was already notifying men as pregnant, yet other states insisted on switching over to this, that is how that 71y.o. pepaw was notified of his "pregnancy". This is too much like privatizing electric companies-after seeing the Godzilla-like carnage they did to California; their mantra: "we HAVE to...."just like monsters in movies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. Mr.O'Neil is full of crap. He is one of those responsible for this economic crisis

He fails to mention the fundamental cause of the economic crisis .... the deregulation of the banking and financial industry which he apparently supported! He sure didn't object to the financial schemes of the Wall Street sharks when he was head of Treasury.
Not a whimper of protest.

And now he is ready to play the blame game! Rather than blame his corporate and Wall Street friends, he's pointing the finger of blame at working people for buying things like clothing, shelter and transportation on credit! Because real wages were frozen and evne driven down for almost three decades that was the only way working people could make any economic progress or even keep their heads above water .... and that was encouraged by the same capitalist interest that kept their pay and benefits down!

O'Neil and many other "leading" economists are now ready to play the blame game .... blame everyone and anyone except those that are truly responsible for this crisis .... the free market who only thought about enriching themselves with various wealth building (for them) schemes such a exotic derivatives, credit default swaps and other scams that we are paying for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
justaregularperson Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yep, be distracted by the free market idologs - No admission that their theories don't work
Edited on Thu Dec-04-08 11:12 PM by justaregularperson
It's like the abusive parent that beats you, telling you that your ideas are all wrong and they do it for your own good.

The "market" players flog you, the average guy, for your "bad morals", as you "don't get what the REAL world is like", while they are the abusers with destructive ideas who destroy and cause everyone pain. I wish people would get it. These guys are nuts and will drive us all to ruin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. This is Con-speak for "privatize social security"
Notice he is not warning about the current crisis, but "unfunded liabilities," which in Con-speak means, social security, medicaid and medicare.

So we need $53 trillion over several decades? How about reducing the defense/intelligence budget by 90% so we are in line with Russia, China, France and Britian.

That would more than make up the difference. But they never talk about that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. It's the shock doctrine. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Nor do the ever talk about raising taxes on the rich. But that would also do it.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
38. O'Neill tried to establish sanity and so he was fired. Lucky man! Glad he is
speaking out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 11th 2024, 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC