Flight 93 Families Ask Bush to OK Land Seizure

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Flight 93 families ask Bush to OK land seizure
By BOB LENTZ (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
December 28, 2008 12:20 AM EST
PHILADELPHIA - Relatives of those who died aboard United Airlines Flight 93 want the Bush Administration to seize the land needed for a memorial where the plane crashed in Shanksville, Pa., in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The Families of Flight 93 sent a letter earlier this month asking President George W. Bush to empower the Secretary of the Interior to take the land in dispute from a homeowner who had been in negotiations with the National Parks Service, said Patrick White, vice president of the families' organization. The group says ground must be broken early next year in time for a memorial to be build for the 10th anniversary of the crash in 2011.

Svonavec Inc. owns one of the last large chunks of land needed for the 2,200-acre memorial, including the area where the plane crashed Sept. 11, 2001. Svonavec's treasurer Mike Svonavec has said the park service has not done enough to negotiate a deal. White said Svonavec has not been willing to negotiate, and called that unacceptable.

- snip -

He said the families understand that the outgoing president has plenty to do in his final weeks in office. But White pledged that the group would carry its fight to the Obama Administration, if needed.

Read more: http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20081227/495707d0_3ca6_1552620081228-238208409

[benh57]

1. What a waste of taxpayer money

2200 acre memorial to note the spot a plane crashed? Come on.. How many bridges could that fix? How many lives could that money save if put towards health care research?

[cabluedem]

2. Its part of the highway memorial thing. You dont just bury people, you mark where they died. Oh vey

[awoke_in_2003]

18. And you need...

almost 4 square miles of land to do it? BS

[cabluedem]

29. Seems like a memorial to flt 93 could be placed at one of the other crash sites. More could visit .

[Billy Burnett]

34. It should be at the GW Bush library site!

They died on his watch. It's part of his legacy. Forever.

Piles of crushed WTC steel and Pentagon rubble should be at the entrance there too, as a reminder of the total failure of a preznit he was.

A graphic reconstruction of Abu Ghraib prison (a' la Holocaust Museum) should be required viewing for all visitors.

[awoke_in_2003]

35. Since all presidential records...

will be destroyed, they will have the room :)

[aquart]

39. What a good point.

[PassingFair]

62. I think I'll submit a design with planes flying into the library.

The various planes would be "wings" of the library!

Think the "Bush Legacy Foundation" will go for it?

[orleans]

67. i'd recommend your response if i could. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

58. there were a lot of people on that flight...that's going to mean A LOT of moldy teddy bears...

maybe it's a health precaution? :shrug:

[Milspec]

36. Whats wrong with a nice dignified memorial

3 times the acreage of the Rose Bowl?

[aquart]

3. Ridiculous. So is the insanely expensive shrine in Manhattan.

What's wrong with a great big plaque with all the names? Why glorify mass murder?

[Lorien]

27. Because we MUST remind the people to be scared at all times

otherwise they'd be harder to rule.

[newfie11]

4. I am very sorry for the loss of the people on flight 93

but I am against the seizure of the 2200 acres. I also bet the National Parks Service would not offer the going rate for that land.
2200 acres if in a square configuration is over 3 miles wide X 3 miles long (640 acres is 1 mile X 1 mile). That is a lot of land to seize. It is not right to take the owner land! But then this is America where government can do anything they like.

[caraher]

15. math check

It's more like 3 miles x 1 mile (2200 acres is about 3.4 square miles, which is not the same as a square 3.4 miles on each side!)

It's still a lot of real estate!

[newfie11]

19. DUH!! You are right. Thanks. n/t

[DS1]

5. Hint: If someone asks Bush to something for the good of the people

He'll do the exact opposite.

However, 2,200 acres is ludicrous. On the other hand, the land can be spared. Either way, Bush will fuck it up.

[dysfunctional press]

54. the good of the people?

how would a land seizure in this case be for the "good of the people" ?

:shrug:

after all, it's not like they're building a ballpark in texas...

[DS1]

56. I didn't say it was, that's the argument used in their request to him

[rpannier]

6. 2200 acres?

What kind of memorial is it going to be?

It's tragic what happened to those people, but it hardly justifies 2200 acres (IMO)

[ixion]

7. yeah, that's almost four square miles

which seems excessive, to say the least.

[glowing]

16. 2200 acres.. enough land for the parking lot, the road to the memorial enlarged,

the gift shop selling "let's roll.." merchandise and lot's of flags. Then of course the walking tour to see the spot and monument and some kind of place to stand to take lot's of pics.. and then just down the road, stop in and dine at the "let's Roll Diner".. I'm sure it will be part of the tour bus stops during the fall foliage for the old people.

[rpannier]

47. I'm wondering if they also have planned a simulated flight in the area

so you can get the feel of what it was like as the plane crashed.

[riverdeep]

63. You know modern America.

Maybe even an amusement park ride re-creating the final moments for the kids.

"I went on Flight 93 and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"

[alphafemale]

8. 2,200 acres? That makes absolutely no sense.

Twenty should be more than sufficient.

[peace13]

9. If they want to honor these people,,,

then let's get to the bottom of how they were killed. Let's talk about the lack of jet crash parts (on 911) in this field that is to be purchased. Just saying.

[midnight]

14. Amen!

[Lorien]

24. Indeed. They're fighting the wrong fight, imho

and seizing land to memorialize a terrorist attack (which is what it would be doing-NOT "honoring the dead by celebrating their lives") sends the wrong message to would be terrorists. They would know that they're acts could have a PERMANENT impact, which makes it all the more tempting for them. There are far better ways to honor loved ones who were lost; for starters, their entire lives weren't based around being a victim!

[mountainvue]

33. Amen. n/t

[boppers]

48. Please identify the parts available in the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q35xHzjxB0

Different crashes have different parts left over to examine.

[riverdeep]

64. Best response yet.

A full unbiased investigation into what happened that day to lead us into a trillion dollar is not unjustified.

[Chulanowa]

10. That's ridiculous

2,200 acres? What the fuck are they going to put there? A new town? Jesus...

[frylock]

28. it's going to be a memorial/amusement park..

9/11 land.

[onehandle]

11. Raise money from 9/11 fetishists. Buy the land. Build it with a private foundation.

Period.

[RCinBrooklyn]

46. Totally Agree. This is not National Park Service worthy.

[msanthrope]

12. NPS can eminent domain it. But they'd have to pony up the cash.....

wonder what the holdup is.

[SoxFan]

22. Eminent Domain proceedings are a huge pain in the ass

They are complicated and slow. You have to establish a proper public use, and, if you get that far, ascertain a reasonable level of compensation, which is when trhings really get ugly.

It's generally quicker and cheaper to work out a purchase before resorting to litigation.

[bowens43]

13. So if your relative dies violently, you should be able to sieze the land where it happened?

I hate to break it to these people but the violent death of their relative, while tragic, is no more tragic then the violent death of anyone else. It is certainly not a justification for stealing someones property.

[Lorien]

25. Good point. nt

[cabluedem]

30. We should also cordon of the ocean locations where people die violently, with bouys. nt

[dysfunctional press]

55. but...but...they were HEROES.

"hero" has gotten to be one of the most worthless words in the language.
in my lifetime, i've seen it go from meaning something special, to meaning virtually NOTHING.

[kath]

61. Exactly - my sister-in-law was murdered in front of her two young children, and there's no

memorial whatsoever for her, much less one costing millions of dollars.

[Wizard777]

17. How appropriate. Hijacking land for a memorial to a hijacked plane,

[zeemike]

20. There is probably more going on here than we know

But I would bet that the owners of the land will get a hefty price for it...at the tax payers expense.

[riverdeep]

65. I think they'll sell, but are holding out for the highest price.

Not really their fault, if that's what they're doing. If the government is stupid enough to fall for the claims of the 9/11 group, what's a little bilking among friends?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. The best way to honor those who died on 9/11:

Put up a billboard with this picture:

[poppysgal]

23. This is sad

a better legacy would be a peaceful solution which could include a library, a park (somewhere else) or a scholarship.

[Mnpaul]

26. If you want to seize private land at below market rates,

Bush is your man(Texas stadium deal). He might not be interested though if he doesn't stand to profit from it.

[No Elephants]

31. Except for the firefighters and police, 911 victims were not heroes. They simply went to

work that morning, or they boarded a plane for business or pleasure. I would never knock their families or diminish their pain, but the death of any loved one is painful, regardless of how it happens and no one gives you a couple of million dollars for it.

The families of the non-heroes got enough already, IMO. Those who rushed into the Twin Towers trying to save people are a different story.

[Vinca]

32. This is like a great, big, inflated memorial by the side of the road.

I'm sad for their loss, but this doesn't seem like something eminent domain should be used for.

[hunter]

44. That's what it is now, an oversized roadside memorial.

August 13, 2008

http://www.donnan.com/Flight_93.htm

A simple somber historical marker and a lane of roadside parking are adequate and appropriate.

[fed_up_mother]

37. Two thousand, two hundred acres? How much land does it take to memorialize?

Gee

[xxqqqzme]

38. That's 50 acres per person

on flight 93!

[jmowreader]

43. Fifty acres? Man...

Can you imagine what we could do with fifty acres per person if we used it for living people?

Listen close, 9/11 Memorializers: get a big piece of aluminum plate. Have it waterjet cut into the shape of a jetliner wing. Engrave the names of everyone who died on Flight 93 on the wing. Black anodize it. Put it in concrete, and stick the memorial in City Park of the town closest to the crash.

[EFerrari]

40. So, this is pretty much a way to twist the land owners' arm

during the negotiation for this land?

Cool.

[hunter]

41. In fifty years it would be a sad forgotten place.

Disintegrating facilities, asphalt parking lots turning into gravel, maybe an old docent surfing the internet, watching television, or knitting when she's not welcoming the few curious visitors who may or may not stop by that day.

"Sorry about the vandalism in the men's bathroom," she'll say, "The women's bathroom ain't too bad."

[jmowreader]

42. Only 2200 acres? Why not 2974 acres?

I can think of no more fitting a memorial than to seize, through eminent domain, one acre of land for every American who died on 9/11.

And right smack dab in the middle of it we'll put a huge Mount Rushmore thing--we'll put Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Ashcroft and Giuliani. There'll be a place for Bernard Kerik as soon as everyone forgets he's a complete piece of shit.

There'll be a huge multimedia exhibit depicting the lives of every single passenger on Flight 93--except for the gay guy who really led the charge against the hijackers, of course.

You'll be able to pay $9.11 for a ticket on the Flight 93 Ride. It'll take you up 200 feet in the air on hydraulic arms, where actors portraying Al Qaeda Terrorists will take over the airplane and an actor portraying Todd Beamer will rally the crowd to turn against them with the stirring cry, "Let's Roll!" immediately after which the ride will explode then impact the ground at 500mph, leaving an 8-mile-long trail of parts behind it. At the lawsuit following its first use, the plaintiffs' attorney will charge that "no one survived the ride." The defendants' attorney will claim they were just trying to make it more realistic.

A Boeing 757 will be buried nose-first in the ground in the middle of the whole exhibit. There'll be a huge concrete slab with granite flats around the periphery that the plane's sticking out of. The flats will be engraved with the names of all 2974 people who gave their lives so George Bush could become a full-fledged dictator.

There'll be a Branson-style concert every day. Crisco Johnny will sing Let The Eagle Soar, Toby Keith will do The Angry American (Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue), Dennis Madalone will play America We Stand As One, Darrell Worley will do Have You Forgotten? and Lee Greenwood will close out the show with God Bless the USA. Country Joe McDonald will NOT be invited to play.

In a special building constructed to look just like Booker Elementary School, you can sit in a classroom and marvel as an audio-animatronic rendition of George Bush reads "My Pet Goat" to you. Unfortunately, the state of audio-animatronics isn't quite what it should be, and the model of Bush will appear sober and competent.

Selections in the gift shop will include DVDs of Bush maladministration officials warning us about phantoms of lost liberties, bottles of Mazola signed by John Ashcroft, Fred Phelps Version Bibles (ecologically sound because after you remove all the parts about loving your neighbor and condense it down to Smiting and Leviticus 18, the whole book is only 8 pages long) prints of Shrub on the phone in Air Force One (a bargain at only $119.95--save $30 off their original list!) and Constitution Toilet Paper--"Wipe your ass on the Constitution just like pResident Bush did on 9/12!" This last you'll be able to get as full document, just the amendments or the special Republican version that's had the Second Amendment removed because they love that part and don't want shit smeared all over it.

No one will visit. After two weeks they'll tear it down and convert it into something useful, like a cheese factory.

[boppers]

49. Do you have issues with cheese factories? eom

[jmowreader]

51. I was going to say a Walmart...

but realized that if no one's going to go out there to view the George Bush Memorial, they probably wouldn't go out there to shop. Besides, there are enough Walmarts.

I think a cheese factory, or some other dairy processing plant, would be great out there. We need it. The more food we buy from it, the less food we have to import from (ugh) China. The only people who would ever have to go out there would be truck drivers and employees. And with 2200 acres to play with, they could have their own cattle--further cutting down on the plant's carbon footprint because the less distance you have to haul milk, the less fuel it takes.

[RCinBrooklyn]

45. Those families got millions - let them buy it.

[fasttense]

50. So what exactly is Svonavec Inc.?

If the owner of the land is a corporation then can he really be called a homeowner? Wouldn't the corporation be the owner of the home and land?

I get some hits on a Svonavec Inc. search. But it seems to be everything from a coal mining business to a lamb farm.

What exactly is Svonavec Inc.?

[Blue Diadem]

52. It's a quarry company. n/t

[Blue Diadem]

53. Here's another article explaining more. It says the land was already strip mined for coal

and then filled in before the crash. The company has rejected $250,000 from the park service and $750,000 from the families. They are waiting on an independent appraisal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404241/

[canetoad]

57. And over 4,000 US soldiers

have died in Iraq, so the government should seize....... oh wait...

[Spectral Music]

59. The families want Bush to seize private property?

Just because the guy was unlucky enough to have a plane crash there? This is WRONG. No reason for eminient domain here.

[marshall]

60. That's like taking all of downtown OK City for that memorial site

How much space do they need? Are they planning on building campgrounds and condos for the families of the victims? It boggles my mind to imagine why on earth they would need to gobble up that much land for a cenotaph.

[riverdeep]

66. I just have two questions.

Will you be allowed to bring more than 3 ounces of liquid into the memorial site and will Dennis Miller do the electronic greeting at the kiosk entrance?