Egyptians open fire on Palestinians

[chucktaylor]

Source: google/ukpress

Egyptian border guards have opened fire on Palestinians who breached the border to escape Israel's assault on Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

An Egyptian security official said there were at least five breaches along the nine-mile border and hundreds of Palestinian residents were pouring in.

At least 300 Egyptian border guards have been rushed to the area to reseal the border, the official added on condition on anonymity because he was not authorised to speak to the press.

A resident of the Gaza Strip side of the border, Fida Kishta, said that Egyptian border guards opened fire to drive back the Palestinians.

Residents have also commandeered a bulldozer to open new breaches.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5grmpk18UVAYzqu4fu2F0eNh8QIgA

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[DesertFlower]

3. looks like they don't care

about their arab brothers.

[awoke_in_2003]

25. sure seems that way...

the Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Stranger]

72. Pretty sick comment, once you understand the dire situation.

Desperate people trying to escape genocide will likely do anything.

[alcibiades_mystery]

94. poster scores snicker points for israel (Booya!), life be damned

Especially Palestinian life.

[Cassandra]

74. The last time they tried to care...

by opening up Gaza to allow the Palestinians to get food, they (the Palestinians) started setting up gun emplacements on Egyptian soil instead. I think their caring ran out some time ago.

[razorman]

78. They never did.

Palestinians have always been viewed by their Arab "brothers" as cannon fodder to use against the Israelis. Hamas is in charge of the Gaza strip, and they do not want peace. That is why they always start the violence to end every truce, and get the "world community" to condemn Israel for its response.

[Threedifferentones]

90. Taking over someone's home,

as the Israelis did decades ago, is not a peaceful enterprise. If the Israelis wanted peace they would have stayed off the Palestinians' land; who is to say how long the Palestinians have the right to fight for what they owned a couple generations ago?

If the Ottoman Empire had won WWI, and came over and insisted that New England must be turned back over to the Wampanoag Tribe, do you think Americans would just have said "oh you're right, they clearly deserve that land, so we'll give up without a fight"?

Hence the best Israel can do is hope that their victims match their level of brutality and violence, because then the Palestinian side is just as culpable.

I see no right in Gaza, just lots of wrong, and lots of death.

[IsItJustMe]

99. I don't know. I never was a big believer in using a chain saw to cut a birth day cake. It seems to

me the Israel always completely over reacts and lots of innocent people end up dying. And then you have Hamas hiding in neighborhoods firing rockets into Israel. This is all very sad.

[roguevalley]

80. nobody loves the Palestinians. The leaders of most of the Arab

world used them as pawns, giving them minimal support. this is atrocious for the innocents in the middle. words fail me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

93. The residents of gaza face fascist guns wherever they turn

From the fascist Israeli state apparatus as well as from the dictatorial regime of President-for-Life Mubarek.

[seemslikeadream]

4. ...

Photo from AP Photo by Nasser Nasser
Egyptian border police look at the smoke rising during an Israeli air strike that hit along the Egyptian border with Gaza seen from the Egyptian border crossing in Rafah, Egypt Sunday, Dec. 28, 2008. Palestinians breached the border fence with Egypt in several places and hundreds have crossed the frontier prompting clashes with Egyptian border guards, said officials and witnesses on both sides of the border.





Photo from Reuters Pictures
3 hours ago: Riot police stand outside the Egyptian embassy in Amman December 28, 2008, during a protest against Israeli attacks on Gaza.




Photo from Reuters Pictures
5 hours ago: Lebanese and Palestinians attempt to remove barbed wire protecting the Egyptian Embassy in Beirut December 28, 2008 during a protest against Israeli attacks on Gaza. Israel destroyed Hamas's main Gaza security complex in an air strike on Sunday and prepared for a possible invasion of the territory after killing more than 280 Palestinians in the first 24 hours of a powerful offensive.

[ohio2007]

40. Suicide bomber in Iraq targets...ralley supporting Gaza civilians. go figger, soft targets

Suicide bomber hits Iraqi Gaza protest


BAGHDAD (AP) -- A suicide bomber on a bicycle blew himself up Sunday amid a crowd of demonstrators in northern Iraq who were protesting Israel's airstrikes on Gaza, killing one demonstrator and wounding 16 others, Iraqi police said.

The bomber rode his bicycle into the demonstration of about 1,300 people ...



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_IRAQ?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-12-28-02-36-16

[uppityperson]

5. k&r for those people just trying to survive.

[seemslikeadream]

6. PRAY

Photo from AP Photo by Nasser Nasser
7 hours ago: Egyptian paramedics and doctors pray by their ambulances while waiting for the approval to cross into Gaza, at the Egypt Gaza border crossing in Rafah, Egypt, Sunday, Dec. 28, 2008.



Photo from AP Photo by Nasser Nasser
7 hours ago: Egyptian paramedics wait by their ambulances at the Egypt Gaza border crossing in Rafah, Egypt, Sunday, Dec. 28, 2008.

[IsItJustMe]

100. Amen.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truedelphi]

8. My husband interrupted my afternoon meditation yesterday to say

That 200 Palestinians had died.

This got us into a conversation from my college English rhetoric 101 class of 1969:

When anyone in Israel dies as a result of terrorist activity, they are
1) 'massacred'
2) or 'murdered'
3) or if the word 'died' is used, atrocity is also used

When it is Palestinians killed by the Israeli military, the word will always be 'died.'

Thus you have a subliminal connotation of 'heroic" added to the deaths of Israelis. But weakness subliminally enters the concept of the dead Palestinians.

In the thirty seven years since I have taken that class, I have always found that to be true.
And believe me, those who advise on how to edit one's work, have advised me often not to use the word 'always'

unless the situation really truly requires 'always'

[No Elephants]

18. "Died?" That's the same word you'd use if they died of natural causes, though. At a miminum,

they were "killed." Maybe it was justifiable. Maybe it was self defense. I don't know for certain. Neither do you. But, they did not simply expire.

[truedelphi]

50. Yep they did not "simply expire." Tell it to the M$M

They've been using those semantics a long long time now

[SoCalDem]

97. It's also common to just say "casualty"

"collateral damage" has fallen out of favor, but I still hear casualty..which sometimes includes injury..

The "other" guy INVADES
"Our" people DEFEND by pre-emptive "action"

aaaah, semantics:eyes:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[cali]

15. If you can't see the difference, it's either because you don't know

the history of the Warsaw Ghetto or you're willfully making an invalid comparison. The sad thing is that what's actually happening is bad in its own right. The Israeli action is a massive human rights abuse. It is not, however, genocide.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

33. That has nothing to do with my point. I in no way support the Israeli

blockade of Gaza, let alone the bombing of the last couple of days. But let's be clear, it's a rather poor comparison for a myriad of reasons. There's been an ongoing conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians for over 60 years. There was no corresponding conflict between Jews and Germans. As for Gaza, when Israel left, the Palestinians immediately started firing rockets- before any blockade. Israel is not the sole perpetrator of the conflict- though they do bear the greater responsibility to move toward peace.

[atreides1]

31. When does it become genocide?

We can always use this definition of it:


"1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2, of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnically, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

With the exception of imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; forcibly transferring children of the group to another group, most of the other things apply.

And please let's not forget that there are some within the Israeli government structure who would like to see all the Palestinians disappear, and are probably not to particular on how that disappearance takes place!

[cali]

35. It's hard to say when human rights abuses become genocide

but I'd suggest that there would be many more deaths over the decades if genocide was going on. By the way, the U.N. does not deem Israeli actions in Gaza or the WB to be genocide. So if you're going by the U.N., you might take that into consideration.

As for your suggestion that there are those within the Israeli gov't who advocate making the Palestinians disappear, that's absolutely true- just as it's true that the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel and all Jewish Israelis. That there are vile extremists among the Israelis and the Palestinians is hardly news.

[robinlynne]

71. and vice versa.

[crikkett]

10. this is a nightmare.

:cry:

[IndianaGreen]

11. Gazans were Egyptians before 1948.

I hope this bloody and disgusting incident brings about the overthrow of the dictatorial Egyptian regime.

[democrank]

12. This is deeply troubling.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but I would like to hear ONE member of the American media report on what happensed in the Gaza Strip BEFORE Hamas fired off the first rocket. We hear plenty about Israel responding to rocket attacks but very little about the Israeli occupation before the attacks. Somehow it just doesn`t seem fair and balanced to me.

[DesertFlower]

13. in 2005 israel

ended its occupation of Gaza. and what have we had since? rockets being fired into israel on a daily basis. there was a "cease fire" and Hamas broke it.

[democrank]

16. sweets....

Perhaps you and I have a different definition of "ending" an occupation. ~PEACE~

[DesertFlower]

20. one would have thought that ending

the occupation and i remember it clearly -- many jews had to be physically dragged from their homes would have brought about peace.

i'm sure that israel and most of the palestinian people want peace, but there is a big obstacle -- Hamas.

[subsuelo]

23. Since 2000, Israel has killed nearly 5000 Palestinians

[DesertFlower]

27. why do you think that is? did they just murder them or

were they defending themselves?

[subsuelo]

29. It's bloodthirst

To call it anything else is delusional

[DesertFlower]

32. give me a break.

do you really believe that israel just goes out and slaughters innocent palestinians? maybe you should learn a bit more about the area before you post something like that.

[Indenturedebtor]

36. Kudos for trying. Learning about the history and both sides of the story takes effort though

It's far easier to just throw a rock through a Starbucks window and march around every wednesday at 2:00.

[subsuelo]

38. Israel has been slaughtering innocent Palestinians for years

Where have you been?

[martymar64]

92. They kill innocent palestinians every day

They deny shipments of medical supplies and food to Gaza and the WB, causing numerous deaths that could've been easily prevented. There are regular reports of illegal settlers in the WB murdering palestinians.
If you are a Palestinian, you have two choices, fights your oppressors or quietly starve to death under the iron boot of occupation. What would you choose to do?

[truedelphi]

52. And how many Lebanese did they kill? due to the kidnapping

Of two Israeli soldiers, soldiers whose positions were known to the Israeli Army all along through GPS.

They reduced Lebanaon to a third world nation. And Bush condoned it.

[martymar64]

95. The biggest crime

The biggest crime is that our tax dollars directly subsidize not only this ungodly slaughter of innocents, but also the expansion of the illegal settlements in the WB with the full complicity of our elected officials of all parties.
In this case, the Democrats are just as bloodthirsty as the worst Neocons. To them, the only good palestinian is a dead palestinian. That applies to way too many here at DU.
It makes me ashamed to be an American.

[dysfunctional press]

82. so i guess by the definition they use, we've never "occupied" iraq over the past 5 years.

:shrug:

[WriteDown]

14. How far do you want to go back?

Let's not forget that the country of Israel was formed as a result of the Great Arab Uprising where Arabs tried to evict Jews from land they had bought from the Ottoman empire. After Israel was formed this trend has continued over and over. What is really sad is that no one REALLY cares about the Palestinians, but they make a good political football as seen by the Egyptians actions.

[Joe Chi Minh]

21. True. But even so, it was so utterly, utterly predictable. All I can assume is

that, as the suicide bombings tend to suggest, the people have become so desperate at the distressing ways in which they have been marginalised and oppressed, they authorised Hamas to invite this massacre with rocket attacks. It makes no sense to me, otherwise. It's as if I had decided to pick a fight with 100 Mike Tysons. Where are the Hamas leaders while this is going on? Have they left themselves as vulnerable as the rest of the populace? Perhaps, if I had been suffering like the Palestinians, I'd think differently and be happy with the direction Hamas has taken. But, as it is, I remain baffled.

[Larkspur]

22. What they won't tell you is that it was Israel who broke the last truce

The last truce was negotiated between Israel and Hamas by the Egyptians.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

19. But... Egypt is a Muslim country, right?

Why won't they help their fellow Muslims? Why won't they reach out a hand to aid these suffering people? WHAT'S WRONG?

Is Egypt committing a war crime? Did George Bush make them do it? I assume he must have, because what Muslim would kill a fellow Muslim...but WHY?

[killbotfactory]

24. Mexico is a christian country, why don't we just let them all in?

What's wrong with us? Why don't more countries base their immigration policies around religious belief? It is a mystery of the ages.

[ohio2007]

39. Maybe the US should be like Egypt and completely seal off the border

Arab nations do not give a rats ass about the Gaza ghetto or the west bank burb. If they did, they would have rebuilt those green houses that Bill Gates purchased when Israel evacuated those settlements.

[Posteritatis]

64. You're being sarcastic, right? (nt)

[Baby Snooks]

26. Two wrongs make a very big wrong...

At what point does the UN force the issue and enforce the Partition Plan of 1947? There is not one Palestine. There is not one Israel. There is a Palestine. And there is an Israel. Create the two states. Place Jerusalem under shared international control. And then if Palestine and Israel decide they still want to annihilate each other, the UN should just annihilate both Palestine and Israel.

The world is tired of the oppressed Palestinians. The world is tired of the oppressed Israelis. To hell with both.

[LeftishBrit]

57. The UN is not there to annihilate people! I hope!

'Create the two states. Place Jerusalem under shared international control.'

I agree, but it will take effort. The last time this was attempted, the UN did not really do their job, leading to Arab states attacking Israel, the 1967 war, and the subsequent occupation.

'And then if Palestine and Israel decide they still want to annihilate each other, the UN should just annihilate both Palestine and Israel.'

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[martymar64]

96. A pox on both their houses

I condemn Hamas wilfully indiscriminate attacks and I condemn Israel's wilfully indiscriminate bombings.
The US needs to cut off all funding to the area and embargo all resources to the area. Maybe when they are starving together, they will attempt to find real peace.
But that'll never happen and the area will never know peace.

[Dorian Gray]

30. And yet they condemn the Israelis

[Indenturedebtor]

37. Yes it's one of the favored pasttimes around here. n/t

[DogPoundPup]

44. Egypt doesn’t want to lose it’s US funding, so it operates in collusion with the American supplied,

and financed Zionist genocide machine

[Dorian Gray]

45. So they didn't

do this out of their own self-interest, and left to their own druthers, they would have welcomed the Palestinians in with open arms?

[DogPoundPup]

48. The Egyptian govt. IS doing this out of their own self interest

The cost to the US taxpayers to bribe the Egyptian government into collusion with Israel runs at about 2 billion a year. This is of course at the behest of AIPAC

[ohio2007]

47. Egypt has helicopters and doctors on standby at the Rafah crossing to evacuate civilians but.....

Hamas is calling the shots

Hamas 'bars injured leaving Gaza'
snip
Egypt has helicopters and doctors on standby at the Rafah crossing.

There are also up to 40 ambulances waiting to go into Gaza to bring out the most seriously wounded. Tonnes of medical supplies have arrived at the nearby airport of El-Arish.

But the Egyptian authorities say that, at the moment, they have no-one to treat.
snip
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801881.stm

Maybe to few human shields were being injured ? Can't lose grasp of the PR war ;)

:sarcasm:

[IndianaGreen]

61. The Palestinian point of view is not permitted, either here or in MSM

Democrats won't buck their benefactors among the Israel Lobby, so let's hear it from the peace forces within Israel, and their allies in USA:

http://www.maki.org.il/
-------------------------------------------------

From: Communist Party of Israel Saturday, December 27, 2008
www.maki.org.il mailto:[e-mail]

==================================================

The Communist Party of Israel Condemns Deadly Attacks on Gaza and Calls for International Mobilization

The Communist Party of Israel and Hadash (the Democratic Front for Peace and Equality) condemns today's deadly attack by the Israeli Air Force on the Gaza Strip, which resulted in the killing of over 150 Palestinians. The CPI calls on Communist and Workers parties and social movements throughout the world to mobilize against these Israeli war crimes and demands that the international community implement sanctions against Israel and indict Tzipi Livni, Ehud Barak and other Israeli political and military leadership for these blatant war crimes, committed as part of Israel's election process.

Today's Israel's military attack is part of the ongoing siege of the Gaza Strip. Israel is exploiting the last moments of the Bush administration to implement the deadly but ineffective imperialist policy of utilizing military force to effect political change. Demonstrations against the Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip are planned for the Israeli major cities, and demonstrations will be conducted tonight in Tel Aviv, Haifa and Nazareth. Yesterday (Friday), hundreds demonstrators attended a rally in central Tel Aviv to protest the expected Israeli military operation to Palestinian rocket attacks from Gaza. The rally was organized by the Coalition against the Gaza Siege and Hadash (Democratic Peace and Equality Front - Communist Party of Israel).

"I suggest that we go the other direction," said Hadash Knesset Member Dov Khenin, a leading member of the Communist Party of Israel. "Our power is our tragedy. One powerful blow will not bring the end. They will respond with rockets and eventually we'll embark on an all-out war. Going in the other direction means reinforcing the lull, securing a ceasefire, and lifting the siege that only serves to unite the population around Hamas."

"A genuine peace process will be engaged in vis-a-vis the Palestinian Authority, led by Abbas," he said. "What's tragic here is that it's possible. We just need the desire."

Khenin added that it is "essential to secure a prisoner swap that would include Gilad Shalit." When asked why fewer Israelis object the war in Gaza, he said: "People lost their hope. They realize that what's happening is bad, yet they think there's no other option. Yet we are not destined to be the victim of history." Another rally participant, the former MK Tamar Gozansky, said: "Two years ago we protested at the same site, before the Second Lebanon War. We were ostracized and referred to as traitors. Yet several months later, all the people who made fun of us carried their own signs to Rabin Square and protested against Olmert's policy. I really hope that we won't have yet another reason to say: 'We told you so.'" In an earlier statement, MK Khenin said: "A comprehensive war in Gaza is dangerous and unnecessary and will put the lives of thousands of Gazans and westernNegev residents at risk"." War is not the solution to the Kassam rocket problem," he continued. "There is another way: a real truce agreement. Not just a cease-fire, but also ending the Gaza blockade and easing the extreme suffering of a million-and-a-half people."

*End*

Communist Party of Indiana CPUSA

[Taverner]

34. Fuck. This will not end well

[ohio2007]

42. Hamas 'bars injured civilians from leaving Gaza'

Egypt says the Hamas militant group, which controls Gaza, is preventing hundreds of wounded Palestinians from leaving for treatment in Egypt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801881.stm

Egypt considers Hamas a 'militant' group ?

[Taverner]

43. This does not surprise me

Hamas knows this story will be buried, yet the Egypt firing on crowds will be front page

Like I said, this will not end good

Neither leader of either group gives a damn about human life

That is when things turn to shit

[Broadslidin]

41. Tis always the same end game for 'organized religions': Murder and Misery.....

:nuke: :hide: :nuke:

[Dorian Gray]

46. Cause this is all

about the RELIGION?

Not ages old desire for territory and control.

[janx]

49. Can somebody catch me up?

The last I remember, there was at least one so-called moderate Palestinian leader who was living with other Palestinians in either the West Bank or Gaza (can't remember). What has happened since then?

[no1dolo]

51. So where are they supposed to go to be safe? What's with Egypt!

[THUNDER HANDS]

53. Egypt, same as any other country

doesn't want thousands of refugees to feed, house and take care of.

[no1dolo]

54. Of course they don't but how do you shoo families back towards bullets and rockets? n/t

[THUNDER HANDS]

55. easy to do

when you don't care about them.

[Sultana]

56. Egypt can't even take care of its people

You don't want to a refugee there.

They could to Jordan but it's the same situation as Egypt.

[Alamuti Lotus]

58. They have a treaty with Israel, and receive billions from the US gov't

It is simple, they're a tool. Mubarak should soon shake hands with Sadat in hell (if there is such a place). The Playstation King of Jordan is another pawn, and there has been an effective Wahhabi-Zionist alliance for years (they have a common cause in supporting US imperialism, and have a common enemy in the Islamic Republic of Iran and its friends in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon). The local gov'ts should all fall, particularly now in light of their compliance in yet another mass murder.

[ohio2007]

63. So you blame J.Carter for being the blessed peacemaker between the two states?

forgot Jimmy C. ?
No matter,
Iranian mullahs want to raise the stakes in the third world Cold War by also labeling Egypt as a Jimmy Carter tool.


read between the lines to see the Third World bi polar tug.

-From the mullahs official Iranian news tools;

Analyst: Plots hatched in Cairo, implemented in Gaza

A political analyst in Tehran said on Sunday that the atrocities of the Zionist regime in Gaza Strip on Saturday was jointly orchestrated by Cairo and Tel Aviv to isolate and eradicate Palestinian resistance in Gaza Strip. The Zionist regime targeted Gaza with some 60 jet fighters on Saturday and all evidence and news indicate that it was a plot jointly masterminded by the Zionist and a number of Arab heads of states, said the analyst.

Exchange of views in the past two days between the foreign minister of the Zionist regime and the head of self-rule Palestinian Authority with Egyptian officials in Cairo as well as authorities in Amman and Saudi Arabia preceded the large-scale inhuman crimes in Gaza, he said. "We are now witnessing a real war in Gaza which is to uproot people's resistance and try to bring them to their knees," pointed out the analyst. Egyptian leadership who played a reconciliation role in the Arab world indicated that they have exerted the most pressure over people's resistance and in fact they seek to move in line with the Zionists' goals, he said. Cairo cannot open Rafah crossing without permission from Tel Aviv and this can only be obtained through submission of Palestinian resistance, he said.

The silence of Arab and western countries has emboldened the Zionist regime not to hesitate to savagely target innocent civilians in Gaza, he said.

snip


http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-203/0812280887185528.htm

ie

Iran is calling for regime change in the whole middle east

but
the Sunni ruled middle east considers themselves "more muslim" then the Shia brand.


So,

which sect of mind controlling of the masses should BHO side with when he goes to some muslim country for holding "major ground breaking" talks ?

gotta be a no brainer

[Alamuti Lotus]

67. That's an erudite analysis from IRNA

I have become numb to so much drool going around, it is nice to see a decent report out there somewhere. Thanks for presenting this (although I doubt 'my confort level' was the intention, such is the effect anyway).

And it is definitely easy to see the tug going on -- but it is greatly multipolar, there is very little 'polar' cohesiveness in international politics at present and most ruling parties enforce momentum and intertia as if it were something virtuous.

Egypt has long been considered a tool of the status quo, and I did not require Marjayat Khameini to point this out. The matter at hand is that the regime has coalesced with a situation that should not be reconciled with; such (absence of) activity leaves an open hand for acts like we are discussing now. The thousands of Egyptians currently on the streets of al-Qahirah chanting "down, down Mubarak" might agree.

I don't quite get the acronymn -- what is "BHO"?

[ohio2007]

89. It is the mullahs official media mouthpiece spin machine

If they didn't approve of something, they shut it down,burn it down or hang the editor as a "spy".
lol
Many people here don't trust certain western media sources for the same reason, that is,due to the political OpEd stands or owners point of views. And certain MSM outlets don't want to offend their adverti$er $ources either.

"BHO II"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

# 44

[Frank Booth]

59. Caught in the middle. What a nightmare.

If every Palestinian was a violent Hamas member then I'd say this is just retribution. Problem is, there are many honest and peaceful Palestinians, and their lives have been decimated as well.

[bluesmail]

60. aw jeez, they're surrounded and have no where to go. FU Israel. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

66. What no "FU Egypt?"

Showing your true colors there aren't ya?

[Alamuti Lotus]

69. FU Egypt

Surrogate "FU", I know, but it will have to due. Good luck determining my true colours.

[Behind the Aegis]

75. You have already shown yours, almost from day one.

[Alamuti Lotus]

76. I have no less than seven true colours

Not all have yet been clearly shown, there is one that I am still hiding.. at any rate, I can say that the feeling is indeed mutual (at least in your case, it is refreshingly obvious).

[Behind the Aegis]

81. Or so you think. Don't overestimate yourself, nor underestimate me.

You aren't as clever as you might think.

[IndianaGreen]

62. Communist Party of Israel Condemns Deadly Attacks on Gaza & Calls for International Mobilization

Democrats won't buck their benefactors among the Israel Lobby, so let's hear it from the peace forces within Israel, and their allies in USA:

http://www.maki.org.il/
-------------------------------------------------

From: Communist Party of Israel Saturday, December 27, 2008
www.maki.org.il mailto:[e-mail]

==================================================

The Communist Party of Israel Condemns Deadly Attacks on Gaza and Calls for International Mobilization

The Communist Party of Israel and Hadash (the Democratic Front for Peace and Equality) condemns today's deadly attack by the Israeli Air Force on the Gaza Strip, which resulted in the killing of over 150 Palestinians. The CPI calls on Communist and Workers parties and social movements throughout the world to mobilize against these Israeli war crimes and demands that the international community implement sanctions against Israel and indict Tzipi Livni, Ehud Barak and other Israeli political and military leadership for these blatant war crimes, committed as part of Israel's election process.

Today's Israel's military attack is part of the ongoing siege of the Gaza Strip. Israel is exploiting the last moments of the Bush administration to implement the deadly but ineffective imperialist policy of utilizing military force to effect political change. Demonstrations against the Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip are planned for the Israeli major cities, and demonstrations will be conducted tonight in Tel Aviv, Haifa and Nazareth. Yesterday (Friday), hundreds demonstrators attended a rally in central Tel Aviv to protest the expected Israeli military operation to Palestinian rocket attacks from Gaza. The rally was organized by the Coalition against the Gaza Siege and Hadash (Democratic Peace and Equality Front - Communist Party of Israel).

"I suggest that we go the other direction," said Hadash Knesset Member Dov Khenin, a leading member of the Communist Party of Israel. "Our power is our tragedy. One powerful blow will not bring the end. They will respond with rockets and eventually we'll embark on an all-out war. Going in the other direction means reinforcing the lull, securing a ceasefire, and lifting the siege that only serves to unite the population around Hamas."

"A genuine peace process will be engaged in vis-a-vis the Palestinian Authority, led by Abbas," he said. "What's tragic here is that it's possible. We just need the desire."

Khenin added that it is "essential to secure a prisoner swap that would include Gilad Shalit." When asked why fewer Israelis object the war in Gaza, he said: "People lost their hope. They realize that what's happening is bad, yet they think there's no other option. Yet we are not destined to be the victim of history." Another rally participant, the former MK Tamar Gozansky, said: "Two years ago we protested at the same site, before the Second Lebanon War. We were ostracized and referred to as traitors. Yet several months later, all the people who made fun of us carried their own signs to Rabin Square and protested against Olmert's policy. I really hope that we won't have yet another reason to say: 'We told you so.'" In an earlier statement, MK Khenin said: "A comprehensive war in Gaza is dangerous and unnecessary and will put the lives of thousands of Gazans and westernNegev residents at risk"." War is not the solution to the Kassam rocket problem," he continued. "There is another way: a real truce agreement. Not just a cease-fire, but also ending the Gaza blockade and easing the extreme suffering of a million-and-a-half people."

*End*

Communist Party of Indiana CPUSA

[Libertas1776]

73. ...

The media here never gives any coverage of those brave, mostly young, Israelis who dare to defy their own government, and their overly militaristic policies against their Palestinian neighbors.

There are voices of outrage right in Israel but their voices are always silenced.

[The Second Stone]

65. Boycott Israel

Israeli products and their apologists in this country. The Israeli atrocities on the citizens in the Gaza ghetto continue. How long will America ignore that we are funding this crime against humanity?

[Kurska]

77. Does that include Obama n/t?

[harun]

86. Obama won't put up with this crap, that is why Israel is getting it in before

he takes office.

[IndianaGreen]

68. Tuesday, December 30: National Day of Action

Tuesday, December 30: National Day of Action

Emergency Demonstrations on Tuesday, December 30 and other days

The ANSWER Coalition, Muslim American Society Freedom, Free Palestine Alliance, National Council of Arab Americans, and Al-Awda, International Palestine Right to Return Coalition are calling for Tuesday, December 30 to be a National Day of Action to show solidarity with the Palestinian people in Gaza and to demand an immediate end to the murderous attacks carried out by the Israeli military against the people of Gaza.

In Washington, D.C., there will be a demonstration at the State Department at 4:30 pm. Demonstrations will also be held in cities around the country.

To see a listing of demonstrations and to learn more, click here

[Doctor_J]

70. Will WWIII help or exacerbate the global recession?

:eyes:

[Pavulon]

83. This is a scuffle between

bit players. A regional conflict is the most we would see here. Not like the US and Russia are going to start lobbing nukes.

[Doctor_J]

84. Yah. I'm sure the Arab world won't get pissed and blame all of

Israel's benefactors around the world. :sarcasm:

[Pavulon]

85. The arab world in not starting ww3

they were unable to defeat isreal, struck out three times. Dont think they are going to start a war involving us.

[ohio2007]

87. It's actually a 'third world' war but with the falling $ profits made from crude oil

certain groups may not be able to afford fighting this war.
The old saying "Strike while the iron is hot".
well,with Oil @ $40 bbl. ......the iron is cold


third world bi polar Cold War shows up in a Lebanon radio statement

LEBANON: Hezbollah says it won't provoke Israel clash over Gaza


snip

On Sunday evening, in an address to Shiites in Beirut’s southern suburb, Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah made it clear that his party would not actively seek to provoke an Israeli attack against Lebanon and would only react to defend itself.

We should be aware that this bad timing amid Arab collusion, an international void, an economic crisis and the U.S. political vacuum between Bush and Obama, might tempt Israel to take a certain action against Lebanon, especially since they need to make such a move for political and electoral gains.

He also denied any responsibility for a set of rockets discovered along the border with Israel last week, stating even that the Jewish state might have actually planted them to find justifications to strike Lebanon.

Lebanon has to be cautious and not to underestimate what is happening around it. ... I have asked the brothers in the resistance in the south specifically to be present, on alert and cautious because we are facing a criminal enemy and we don't know the magnitude of the conspiracies being weaved around us.

In his recent speeches, Nasrallah focused instead on galvanizing the Arab world to push their governments to provide more support to the Palestinians.

Many in Lebanon believe their country has already paid a dear price for the Arab cause in their many conflicts with Israel.

snip

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/12/lebanon-hezboll.html

The way for Israel to "invade Iran" has always been as easy as looking across its border walls.


The mullahs may be about to loose a rook in Gaza but, with the price of crude being as it is,
they can't afford to move any pieces in Lebanon.
jmo.

Wonder if the Iranian aid ship will be able to make that landing in Gaza next month ?

Will Sunni Saudi watch the passing ship or Sunni Egypt slow its inspection papers progress through the canal ?

its a pretty ballsy move for a Persian ruler to make demands of obedience on distant unrelated Arab sects;

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKHOS84274820081228?sp=true


Looks like Barack can sit on the fence and take a wait and see approach. Luckily, this situation isn't his paygrade,
yet.

[WriteDown]

88. Interesting analysis....

Was a good read.

[ohio2007]

79. April 12, 2008 report on Hamas run Gaza ( video )

April 12, 2008 report on Hamas run Gaza
Anna Chan: Last month, our Israeli correspondents reported on the Gaza crisis. With it's food shortages and crumbling health services under the Hamas, today's update on Gaza talks about human rights
snip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5teFQ1KIk

April, that was before the start period of very few rocket attacks over a four month period ( July - October )

I'm sure that report may have been 'biased' and taken out of context. Circumstances then can't be applied to events of today.But for equal time, this is how Hamas likes to be seen as evident of the many videos they put out;

December 25, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxdeGQHPYaY&feature=related

wonder if any of those guys got smoked this past weekend ? Bet many of them rarely got paid as it is well known.

Dind't they get word "This is the age of Aquarius" ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9oq_IskRIg&feature=related


wtf is up with them

[ohio2007]

98. Egypt refuses full opening of Gaza crossing ( wants Hamas away from gates )

A Sunni leaders opinion of the Persian pawn

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - The Egyptian president says his country will not fully open its crossing into the Gaza Strip unless Mahmoud Abbas' Palestinian Authority is in control of the border post.

The speech Tuesday from Hosni Mubarak came despite criticism of Egypt in the Arab world over its refusal over the past year to open the Rafah crossing....

snip

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081230/D95D24I00.html

next Mubarak wil be demanding Hamas give back the US arms meant to supply the police forces of the PA.

yeah, good luck with that


Oct,20,2006
Fatah, Hamas agree to end violence

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3317394,00.html


interesting Poll data from 2007
Palestinian Center For Public Opinion
http://www.pcpo.ps/polls.htm

on edit;
this was the 2007 poll

57.7 %) Would vote for Fateh candidate to the PA presidency, ( 28.7 %) for Hamas candidate.
(72.1 %) Are worried about their personal security.
(73.8 %) Of the Palestinian people are worried about the subsistence of their families.
(44.0 %) Hold Hamas responsible for the fights of Gaza Strip.
(70.6 %) Oppose at various degrees the entry of foreign and/or Arab troops into Gaza Strip.

http://www.pcpo.ps/polls/poll162.htm

[zelta gaisma]

101. is hamas the reason egytp fired on the Palestinian people on that border?

[ohio2007]

102. You should read up on the Hamas post election 'victory' massacres

worth a google but remember, the MSM has a habit of emptying on line files to make room


but on a side note from last years border breach;

Gazans stream over Egyptian border
Sat Jan 26, 2008
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2417232020080126


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=198310&mesg_id=198310

hope you don't mind reading YouTube subtitles;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOcnXtWFMGQ&eurl=http://www.christian-zionist.com/2008/01/1-in-3-palestinians-want-to-move-abroad.html

Call it blatant propaganda but,after all this time,
the song remains the same.

[and-justice-for-all]

103. What the fuck?! unspeakable. nt