Russian scholar says US will collapse — next year

[harun]

Source: Associated Press

MOSCOW – If you're inclined to believe Igor Panarin, and the Kremlin wouldn't mind if you did, then President Barack Obama will order martial law this year, the U.S. will split into six rump-states before 2011, and Russia and China will become the backbones of a new world order.

"There is a high probability that the collapse of the United States will occur by 2010," Panarin told dozens of students, professors and diplomats Tuesday at the Diplomatic Academy — a lecture the ministry pointedly invited The Associated Press and other foreign media to attend.

The prediction from Panarin, a former spokesman for Russia's Federal Space Agency and reportedly an ex-KGB analyst, meshes with the negative view of the U.S. that has been flowing from the Kremlin in recent years, in particular from Vladimir Putin.

Putin, the former president who is now prime minister, has likened the United States to Nazi Germany's Third Reich and blames Washington for the global financial crisis that has pounded the Russian economy.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090304/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_us_the_end_is_near;_ylt=Auhr2Ywjlfd9YSOZ9JrWfU0DW7oF

---

If my chunk ends up with Universal Health Care, then it works for me.

[corpseratemedia]

1. hmm maybe I should leave my chunk..

[Soylent Brice]

11. welcome to DU , lurker! lol

nice name BTW.

[Zywiec]

2. President Barack Obama will order martial law this year

Great, we just got finished with 8 years of this being predicted...

Here we go again!

See you at the barricades

:rofl:

[Deja Q]

37. He'll also prevent the 2010 and 2012 elections so he can put his buddies into power!!!11!!!!112

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :spray: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :spray: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :spray: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :spray: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :spray: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :rofl:

[stray cat]

3. Maybe we should get Joe the Plumber's predictions as well.....

[Uben]

4. Aha! Russia has a Limbaugh, too!

Isn't that special?

[Dollface]

21. I thought you typed Limbaugh tool then I noticed it was an ! not a l. It creeped me out for a minute

[Matilda]

5. This sounds like the sort of wishful thinking

that the Soviets used to spin in the old pre-Gorbachev years.

Putin must really miss those days.

[LeftinOH]

6. And this comes from a country that is (technically) only 18 years old....n/t

[Demeter]

7. Not Bloody Likely

It isn't our way. We aren't an empire, forged by violent conquest, held together by force.

I'd bet even money on a social-economic revolution, though. Not exactly like the Bolshevik Revolution, either.

[eridani]

22. Actually we are an empire? The Iraq war was certainly violent conquest

What other word is their for the only country in the history of the world that has had 1000 military outposts all over the world? If we backed off the imperialism, hanging together as a society should be pretty easy.

[sofa king]

26. We certainly are.

We certainly are an empire forged by violent conquest, including the conquest of the Indian tribes from coast to coast, staged coups in West Florida, California, and Texas, forcible annexation from Mexico, a failed invasion of Canada and another threatened war over Washington State in the 1840s, the overthrow of rightful governments in Hawaii and elsewhere, and the forcible takeover of Spanish island possessions from Puerto Rico to the Philippines.

And in that time, the United States fought one of the largest and bloodiest civil wars up to that time, explicitly to hold together the Union by force.

I make no predictions about what's going to happen next, but whatever it is, it is not likely to be without historical precedent.

[AyanEva]

29. I agree

That we're an empire. I doubt we'll split up though. A restructuring of the financial system and whatnot, most likely. Aside from that, I can't even begin to guess.

Your username looks so familiar... Like I've seen it years ago. You weren't on Smirking Chimp were you?

[Eryemil]

32. I also agree.

[harun]

33. I agree and so does history

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-Present/dp/0060838655/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236185420&sr=8-1

[New Dawn]

49. Read William Blum's Killing Hope.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Killing-Hope/William-Blum/e/9781567512526/?itm=8

The USA is definitely an empire. We need to end the empire ASAP.

[elocs]

8. I read about this here last December:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=411220&mesg_id=412191

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. I could sketch a more plausible break up in a couple of minutes

The "will be part of" predictions are almost universally rubbish. Practically no states or areas of the US would voluntarily join other countries, with the possible exception of joining Canada (still highly unlikely, but if some did, it wouldn't be states like Kansas). The US is still uninvadable, and will be while it has a central stock of nuclear weapons. Even without it having nuclear weapons, an invasion would be impossible for a non-nuclear country. Too big, and the one thing guaranteed to bring it together again, whatever had been going on, would be an outside invasion.

As far as splits due to civil war, he's just drawn some lines based on the countries/oceans at the edges. Utah going in with a 'Californian Republic?' No. Wyoming and Ohio deciding they have close ties that mean their area must secede? No. And so on. The "United States of Canada/Jesusland" joke from 4 years ago was more believable. The man's a con-artist, if he's selling that as 'analysis'.

[Seeking Serenity]

41. I thought I had, too.

Sure sounded familiar. Thanks for finding that.

Search engine is your friend. :-)

[jb5150]

9. I've heard of a rump-roast

but could someone explain to me what a rump-states is........

[tangent90]

16. Running Under Military Police?

beats the shittouttame
;-)

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. It's a state with a

Rump Parliament, of course. :evilgrin:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Not gonna happen

Now if the GOP had remained in power, I would be more likely to take this prediction seriously. But they didn't, and the Constitutional Law Professor in Chief is gonna lead us out of the darkness and chaos.

[sufrommich]

12. Yes, ho hum. They will bury us.

:eyes:

[KnaveRupe]

13. The article says "Alaska will revert to Russian control"?

... Not with Sarah-Barracuda on watch, you betcha!

She's watchin' for Putin's head to rear up over the Bering sea, an' then she'll shoot it outta the sky, and so forth.

Cuz she's a maverick, dontcha know.

[DRoseDARs]

14. Yeah, he's been doing this since the Clinton Administration I believe...

[izquierdista]

15. He sounds like Condi

Both "experts" in something they know absolutely nothing about.

[B3Nut]

17. You mean Panarin listens to Alex Jones?

:rofl: That's who this dingdong sounds like!

[sarah FAILIN]

19. Sounds like the end according to some.

The new thing I've been hearing is that we have given China imminent domain over our states to get them to keep loaning us money. People are talking about stockpiling heirloom seeds to plant gardens with and ammunition. :tinfoilhat:

[pattmarty]

23. See, he was under the mistaken impression that "W" was............

..........elected for life in the US. His "theory" is now fucked because it was predicated on "W" being Prez for life, and if that were the case I would have also predicted that the US next year would collapse (especially with all these new "memos" coming out).

[Turbineguy]

24. Publish or Perish

As the Dutch said when the Nazis marched in: "New Order, empty plates."

[Kalyan]

25. and aliens from Mars will land in Central Park in 2010 ...

:rofl:

[AyanEva]

27. Heh

Glad I'm in the Northeast. I'm guaranteed to be in a good state that way. Let's fire up the factories! And Jersey can provide our produce.

[Lost in CT]

28. I am so going to A-team my Road Runner.... I need a good wingman

who can handle a .50 caliber machine gun welded to the roof.

[conspirator]

40. I will ride a buggy and follow you nt

[Lost in CT]

30. Who would take Delaware? nt

[FarCenter]

31. Interview with Igor Panarin

http://www.russiatoday.com/Art_and_Fun/2008-11-26/Professor_Igor_Panarin_When_America_fell_to_pieces_the_shouting_was_outrageous_.html

Q: Could you tell us about the division of the elite. Are these the democrats and the republicans?

A: No, that is not right. There are two groups in the US authorities. The first one may be called the globalists, or the Trotskyites. Leon Trotsky had already formulated their idea in the past: it’s not Russia that we need, but a world revolution. Soviet Russia was viewed by them as a base for control over the world. The second group is the statists which want prosperity for their country. Representatives of these two clans are present in both Democratic and Republican Parties. Take voting for the anti-crisis plan of Paulson, which was suggested by the Republican administration, for example. It was voted down in the Congress by the Republicans first of all.

Q: Who is in charge of the clans?

A: The key persons of the globalists are Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Vice President Dick Cheney. The key persons of the statists are Robert Gates, Defense Secretary; Michael Hayden, CIA Director; and Admiral Mike McConnell, director of national intelligence. Globalists are mainly the financial elite, and statists are the armed forces, special services and military and industrial complex. Recently the confrontation between these two clans has become open. In December last year the statists presented a report which completely denied the existence of the nuclear program in Iran. It directly contradicted conclusions made by Condoleezza Rice and Dick Cheney. The second important event took place at the hearings of the US Congress concerning the 5-day war in the Caucasus. The globalists represented by Condoleezza Rice insisted that Russia had started the war and that it would be punished for it. Georgia was the project of Condoleezza. And representatives of the intelligence community presented a diametrically opposite statement: that Georgia had started the war. We see an open confrontation between very outstanding political figures.

Q: And who’s Obama’s company?

A: The statists with Gates in charge were the key players who had enabled Obama to win. They are demanding that he change the general line in return. In this light, a very interesting factor is that Gates the Republican is viewed as the most important candidate as to whether he remains the US Defense Secretary or becomes the Secretary of State. This is the influence of the statists on the President. By the way, the first session which Obama held was with the American intelligence community.

[Dreamer Tatum]

34. Meanwhile, his own knitting is left untended

Russia will collapse before the United States does.

[whosinpower]

35. I have a different theory

The United States will collapse - well maybe collapse is not the right term - change - yep.
They will not break up into little pieces, as much as Russia would desperately like to inflict.

I see something far different. I see the possibility of a North American union, where Canada and Mexico are swallowed up, a new north american currency, obliterating the old US greenback, the Mexican peso and the Canadian dollar, and replacing it with a north american currency.

Talks of this sort of union have already occured with the highest levels of government of all three nations.(before Obama)

The financial crisis will be the catalyst. The US losing its dominance because it loses its global reserve currency status will be the final straw that pushes this into existance.

[ConcernedCanuk]

47. Canada and Mexico are swallowed up? - I don't think so, not in my lifetime

.
.
.

I would be an "insurgent" for sure!!!

and I wouldn't be alone

[Deja Q]

36. Oh, that crackpot. Funny how oil-rich Alaska goes back to Russia. Uh-huh. And

given the quality of many Chinese products, their empire won't last very long either.

[happyslug]

38. This was a topic in December, about the same report, but that was from the WSJ.

See:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x411848

He is basically using what was happening in Russia in the 1980s and makes parallel with the US today. The comparison is NOT nice, it is close, but there are differences. First the borders of the US States are not "real" in the sense of most National Borders i.e. the borders of most states do NOT follow natural borders (Such as Mountains), in fact many follow rivers, which tend to bring people together NOT separate them (Rivers can be used as internal administrative borders, but are rarely good "real" borders do to the fact people use them as a means of transportation). For Example does St Louis really care if the areas across the Mississippi River is in a different state given that the River itself in controlled by the Federal Government? The answer is NO, but St Louis would be concern if the area across the river is a different country.

Now sometimes rivers are good borders. For example the Rio Grande (But then both sides of the Rio Grande speaks Spanish and apparently always have, the Rio Grande is more a trip wire border, i.e. since the 1830s till recently no one really cared if you cross onside to the other, the concern was did you go further into Texas or Mexico? Thus for the US and Mexico it was a good border, but a arbitrary border ignored by the locals.

The Rhine River is another "border river" but it has only been a "Border" River between Germany and France since the time of Louis XIV (C 1700). Both sides of the Rhine speaks German (or a variation of German) until you get a good but away from the border (Thus Belgium, which is along the Rhine has a French Speaking section away from the River but the river itself is Dutch/German). When Germany retook Alsace-Lorraine in 1871-1919, Germany only took the German Speaking areas. When Charlemagne's empire broke up at the death of his son, it was dived into three Kingdoms, Modern France and Germany and a "Middle Kingdom" of what is now Netherlands, Belgium Luxembourg, Switzerland, AND both sides of the Rhine River where Germany and France meet today. This was do to the fact the Rhine, like other rivers, bring people on its shores together.

Thus My comment in the thread in December that the Mississippi River will force the parts of the US along that Rivers and its Tributaries (i.e. 2/3 of the US) together. Due to the Glaciers from the last Ice Age, it is very flat and close (i.e. less then 20 miles in most cases) between the Mississippi Drainage systems and those streams that flow into the Great Lakes from the US. Thus France treated the whole area of the Mississippi and Great Lake River and lake system as one big country (They called in New France). The area fell easily to them, it took the British, who had more money and ten times the population over a century to dislodge the French (And French stayed the main language of what was called the "West" till the 1830s and 1840s when English slowly replaced it, even among Native Americans).

I can see the east and West Coast Breaking off, I can see the Rio Grande and Colorado River Valleys breaking off, those can have "Natural" borders (Through not the state borders of today), but the Mississippi/Great lakes area will stay united to at least some extent (Even Britain recognized this in 1867 when it can Canada Dominion status, basically telling the US, they could have Canada if the US really wanted it, since the US had had Canada within its Economic orbit for almost 30 years by that time. It has NOT been politically popular for such an extension given Canada basically acceptance that it is independent of the US do to US internal politics NOT any real Geographical or Economic reason).

Such like Canada is today, what had been "New France" can break up, but sooner or later come sort of understanding of unity will occur, it may be several different Countries, it may be one, but in economic and reality (Through not necessary legally) it will be one (Just as Canada and the US are one today, geographically, economically, socially, but two different legal entities).

[Malikshah]

39. Don't forget the ....GAYSSSSSSSSSSS

Done in best Margaret Cho's Mother's voice...

Panarin says the number of Gays in addition to prison population will lead to our downfall...

Okalee dokalee then, sparky....

[gordianot]

42. Such brilliance, but just who is not in danger of collapse? n/t

[cobalt1999]

43. How does one get the "scholar" title?

However it happens, the standards need to be raised on it.

[Butch350]

44. Any Body ever heard of John Titor?

[maxsolomon]

45. Out here in Ecotopia,

it wouldn't be so bad.

[Matariki]

46. Hi Maxsolomon - fellow Cascadian!

[ConcernedCanuk]

48. Ecotopia - I read a preview of that book on-line

.
.
.

and also Ecotopia Emerging

my local library doesn't have them,

nor can they find them in our whole Ontario library network sharing system

bummer

BOTH those books,

well, the limited previews REALLY grabbed my attention

you can find/read them HERE

[Alamuti Lotus]

50. didn't care much for the book or that name,

but an independent PacNW republic is almost an inevitability. In the (near? slightly distant?) future the waters of the Columbia & Fraser drainanges will be worth their flow in gold.

[maxsolomon]

52. agree. Cascadia is fine.

all the way down to the siskyous, and out to the rockies.

water, grapes, grain, & 90% of all the world's hop production. we'll have alcohol covered, and that's what really defines a nation.

[unkachuck]

51. Panarins' predictions....

....might be a bit premature and optimistic....but he's right about one thing:

"What's happened is the collapse of the American dream."