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India may vote for untouchable leader Mayawati Kumari

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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 12:04 PM
Original message
India may vote for untouchable leader Mayawati Kumari
Source: The Australian

IT is one of the world's most class-conscious societies, but is India on the verge of having its first "untouchable" leader?

As the country prepares to stage its 15th general election since independence in 1947, all eyes are on Mayawati Kumari, the powerful Chief Minister of the country's most populous state, Uttar Pradesh.

The ambitious 53-year-old from the Dalit (untouchables) caste was poised last night to make her first major play for the country's prime ministership by hosting a dinner for leaders of an emerging third force in the country's political landscape.

The loose collection of nine leftist and regional parties launched their new alliance last week, declaring themselves the Third Front in Indian politics, which has traditionally been dominated by the 123-year-old Gandhian Congress Party and the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party.


Read more: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25190793-25837,00.html



This would really be an exciting development!
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Tab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Even more so than what happened in this country

Their caste division is a lot more stringent than our white vs. black one.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Amazing.
That would be history in the making. What a year, eh?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good for India!!!
Sounds like an Indian Obama. (replacing race with caste)
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Another stupid article from the 1st world press
The caste system is a relic of the past when it served a useful purpose. Since independence, people of lower castes have been given a very strong push economically and with quotas. There are scores of former untouchable doctors, lawyers, judges, police, military officers and politicians. The rare and sporadic cases of untouchable abuse get massive press to make people all over the world think that it is a major problem.

Let's not forget that the chief justice of India's supreme court is a former untouchable. Let's not forget that Mayawati has been the chief minister of the most populous state for over 10 years.

With 86% of the population being Hindu, India has had two muslim presidents, two sikh presidents, a sikh prime minister, a woman prime minister, a woman president and the leader of the ruling party is an Italian born catholic woman. No other country has such a track record in just 60 years after independence.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks for a little perspective. nt
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Agreed
I'm actually worried that she would win, she's seems a bit radical in my opinion. I remember reading about her anti-Gandhi(the man, not the family, there's plenty of legitimate problems w/ the family) positions.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. She has also been very corrupt.
She is called a mini-Lalu.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Since my family is from Bihar
All the more reason why not to vote for her.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. which politicians in India are not corrupt ?
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. which politicians anywhere who aren't corrupt? n/t
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. current President of the United States
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. So you can name one. Bravo!
I can name one from India too -- Mahatma Gandhi.
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bird gerhl Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Gandhi: Patron saint of the industrialist
During the years of the Indian independence movement, a leading Indian industrialist, G. D. Birla, was Mahatma Gandhi's most generous financial supporter. While Birla has been described as a devotee of Gandhi, the relationship between the two men was more one of collaboration than of one-sided devotion. Gandhi's campaigns were made possible by drawing from Birla's vast financial resources while Birla benefited not only from the social and religious prestige which his association with Gandhi brought him, but his economic role and position as a wealthy capitalist was strengthened and glorified. Gandhi gave his blessing to the abundant wealth of Birla with his teaching on trusteeship, a concept which asserted the right of the rich to accumulate and maintain wealth, as long as the wealth was used to benefit society. Gandhi apparently borrowed the concept of trusteeship from the writings of the American millionaire, Andrew Carnegie, who had used trusteeship to promote capitalism over socialism.

<...>

G. D. Birla's association with Mahatma Gandhi began in 1915. Gandhi had just returned to India from South Africa as a hero for championing the rights of Indian workers. In Calcutta, where Gandhi was to make a speech, Birla arranged a grand reception for him. Birla related his first impressions of Gandhi:

At this first meeting he appeared rather queer .... I was rather puzzled about him when I first saw him, and then gradually I came to know him .... He gave us a new conception of politics. We felt him a saint as well as a politician .... That meeting was thirty-two years ago, and since then I have been associated with him and have been giving him such service as I can.<47>


The service that Birla provided amounted to supplying practically every financial need Gandhi brought to him. Gandhi had other sources of income, including the assistance of the industrialist Jamnalal Bajaj, as well as the accumulated donations from multitudes of poor supporters, but Birla was the major financier. Birla's brothers also contributed to Gandhi, but sometimes G. D.'s gifting was seen by them as an extravagance.<48> Birla rarely refused any financial request on Gandhi's part and Gandhi's requests were numerous. The following request from Gandhi was not atypical:

My thirst for money is simply unquenchable. I need at least Rs. 2,00,000--for khadi, untouchability and education. The dairy work makes another Rs. 50,000. Then there is the Ashram expenditure. No work remains unfinished for want of funds, but God gives after severe trials. This also satisfies me. You can give as you like for whatever work you have faith in.<49>


With Birla's beneficence Gandhi was able carry on his massive political campaigns, as well as to maintain a semblance of poverty and simplicity in lifestyle, while enjoying almost limitless financial resources.

http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/sagar/spring.1994/leah.renold.art.html
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Gandhi didn't personally benefit from the largesse
just as Obama is not personally benefiting from the half a billion dollars+ he spent on the campaign.


Politicians need financial support. DUH
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Kalyan Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. and ...
Edited on Mon Mar-16-09 09:47 AM by Kalyan
and your point is ....


I read the post 5 times and i still can't understand what you are trying to convey ...
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bird gerhl Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Hooray for tokenism
Far from weakening over the course of six decades since the transfer of power from British rule, the caste system thrives in India today, and is indeed strengthened by the prevailing economic processes. We describe below the condition of Dalits, but they are not the only victims of the caste system.

The condition of Dalits, or scheduled castes (SC) is one of acute poverty and social oppression. Both poverty and oppression are linked to the question of land. In the rural areas, 57 per cent of the SC households cultivate no land at all; 21 per cent cultivate under one acre (0.4 hectares); and another 13 per cent cultivate between one acre and two and a half acres (1 hectare). That is, 91 per cent of the SC households in the rural areas are either landless or operate what are termed ‘sub-marginal’ or ‘marginal’ holdings. In urban areas, 51 per cent of SC households spent less than Rs 675 per head per month; whereas only 28 per cent of all classes (including SC) spent below that level. Literacy and enrollment levels too were lower for Dalits than for ‘all classes’.21

With the post-1991 liberalisation of banking, Dalits were swiftly excluded from bank credit. (In other words, they experienced a somewhat sharper form of what the poor and middle peasantry had to undergo in this period.) The credit per capita of small borrowal accounts of Dalits fell from Rs 495 in 1993 to Rs 225 in 2004. Dalits’ share of the amount outstanding on such accounts fell from 12.4 per cent to 4.6 per cent. Thus the share of rural Dalits’ loans from informal sources (such as moneylenders) rose from 36.6 per cent in 1992 to 55.2 per cent in 2002. Unsurprisingly, debt with a high interest rate (20 per cent or more per year) soared from 27.8 per cent to 45.5 per cent of their total debt.22

The Public Distribution System (PDS) has been to a large extent dismantled over the post-1991 period. This process accelerated with the introduction of the Targeted PDS in 1997, which divided consumers into so-called Below Poverty Line (BPL) and Above Poverty Line (APL) households. Prices for the latter were raised to virtually the level of market prices, effectively driving them out of the PDS. By various methods, including the use of the fraudulent official poverty line, the majority of the poor were simply excluded from the BPL category; being the poorest sections, the Dalits and Adivasis were particularly affected. By 2004-05, less than 40 per cent of Dalit households in rural areas had either a BPL card or an Antyodaya card (a scheme for the ‘poorest of the poor’). Among landless households (which describes the majority of rural Dalit households), 51 per cent did not have a ration card at all, and another 24.5 per cent had an APL card.

The actual social condition of rural Dalits, however, is hardly conveyed by such statistics. The Dalit settlement is situated outside the village; it is frequently without a water source, and without electricity. Dalits frequently do not even have land of their own on which to relieve themselves, but must use the fields of the dominant communities with their consent. They are still compelled to perform traditional services, including the skinning of dead animals and manual scavenging (cleaning and disposal of excreta from dry latrines). According to a recent study by a study team from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a Gujarat-based NGO, the number of manual scavengers in Gujarat is actually increasing, even as their social segregation remains intact.24

Crimes against Dalits are not properly captured in official statistics. Many are not reported to the police for fear of reprisal, and because the police are almost uniformly partisan with the dominant social sections. Moreover, the caste character of many of these crimes is often ignored.25 At a recent national consultation of the National Commission on Scheduled Castes in Delhi, office-bearers of the Commission admitted the State’s complete failure to bring down atrocities against Dalits despite the existence of two legislations for the purpose; even untouchability, ‘abolished’ under Article 17 of the Constitution, persists. The police let off the culprits, and those tried are not convicted; indeed the conviction rate is going down in some states.26

http://www.rupe-india.org/44/people.html
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Kalyan Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. not the complete picture ...
The common misconception in India is that the Brahmins & "forward caste" folks abused & continue to abuse the SCs/STs. Nothing can be further away from truth. And the media plays it's part in not naming the abuser community and instead terming them as "caste hindus". This creates an image in the mind of the readers that Brahmins are abusing the SCs/STs.

For example - Kherlanji massacre was the hedious crime against humanity where a dalit farmer's family was killed because he refused to give-away land that the villagers were eyeing for laying a road. Check this
* BBC news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ifs_news/hi/newsid_6211000/6211532.stm
* Indian Express (Top 5 Indian newspaper): http://www.indianexpress.com/news/village-quiet-after-it-ganged-up-to-hack-dalit-mother-3-children/16226/
* Hindu (South India's No.1 Paper): http://www.hindu.com/2006/11/17/stories/2006111702871100.htm

If you go through these weblinks, does the name of the caste that perpetrated the crime come out? Now check the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kherlanji_massacre

The murders were carried out by the Kunbi caste - classified as OTHER BACKWARD CASTES (OBC). OBCs sit between the forward caste (FC) and the SCs/STs in the caste chain. They have 27% reservation in all govt institutions & jobs (while SCs & STs hold 22%).

The real problem for the SCs/STs in India is lack of public awareness on their plight & the identity of the perpetrators of crimes against these 2 groups.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. "Rare and sporadic?"
Over a hundred thousand reported assaults, rapes and murders based on caste per year, most of which never get touched by the courts, only starts looking "rare and sporadic" in the context of the population as a whole. Systematized segregation in employment, housing, schools, etc., too.

India's got a good record for representation at the higher levels of the government, yes, but if you're claiming there isn't still caste discrimination going on in the populace at large, you're insane.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. so what ? just because Barack Obama is President
doesn't mean all or even most black people in the united states are treated fairly.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great band.I'd vote for the dude.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Dude, it's a lady we're talking about.
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bravo, India
:thumbsup:
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Vehl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. great news, but somewhat lacking in detail
As a poster stated above,
there have been many non Hindu, non high caste and women primers in india.

right now the president is a lady and the PM is a Punjabi. Furthermore it was also the second country in the world to have a lady PM.
and last but not the least; the father of the Indian constitution is Dr.Ambedkar who hailed from the low castes.


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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. the problem is still that a large number of "untouchables" are left behind
while there are individuals who will be able to make it to the top many are left behind.
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Kalyan Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
12. we will better USA - combine Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Maddoff
we will better USA - combine Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Maddoff, Kenneth Lay and we get MAYAWATI.

I am all for having a dalit prime minister (we had a dalit president & our current Chief Justice is a dalit himself) but MAYAWATI is absolutely the last person in India that i want to see as our PM. She is a corrupt person with questionable morals and a dictatorial streak. India doesn't deserve her.

As an example, her birthday parties will put Saddam Hussein, Mugabe or any dictator to shame. 50 kg cakes, tons of flowers, destruction & misuse of state property - name it and you would see her party politicians try one-up each other to get her blessings.

Shame, India cannot produce better politicians. The blame should lie at Nehru's doorstep. He encouraged dynasty rule and others are cashing in as well.
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nyy1998 Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Amen!!!!!
Couldn't have said a better response myself!
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Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Not to mention the statue building
Mayawati is just another politician cashing in on the victimization of her caste. She is brazenly corrupt and deserves nothing but contempt.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-16-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
28. what a stupid writer. there are several untouchable leaders in india.
:eyes:
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