Bill Would Allow Texas School to Grant Master's Degree in Science for Creationism

[Sub Atomic]

Source: Fox News

A Texas legislator is waging a war of biblical proportions against the science and education communities in the Lone Star State as he fights for a bill that would allow a private school that teaches creationism to grant a Master of Science degree in the subject.

State Rep. Leo Berman (R-Tyler) proposed House Bill 2800 when he learned that The Institute for Creation Research (ICR), a private institution that specializes in the education and research of biblical creationism, was not able to receive a certificate of authority from Texas' Higher Education Coordinating Board to grant Master of Science degrees.

Berman's bill would allow private, non-profit educational institutions to be exempt from the board’s authority.

“If you don’t take any federal funds, if you don’t take any state funds, you can do a lot more than some business that does take state funding or federal funding,” Berman says. “Why should you be regulated if you don’t take any state or federal funding?”

...

“Right now, we don’t have this problem in Texas. Texas is not a center for degree mills, because our laws allow only the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board to approve the granting of graduate degrees.”

“It would certainly open the door to all kinds of chicanery,” says Eugenie Scott, Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education. “I mean, all you have to do, it looks to me from the bill, is start a non-profit organization, don’t take any federal or state money, and then offer degrees in any fool subject you want.”

Schafersman fears that amending state law to accommodate institutions such as ICR would devalue Texas graduate degrees.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509719,00.html

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[ixion]

1. outside whacko-fundie circles, "creationism" is not considered a science

so this degree would be virtually worthless for anything other further whacko-fundery.

[Zhade]

42. Well, yeah. It's pretty much the opposite of science!

NT!

[saigon68]

90. Up next -a Degree in Reading Tea Leaves

[HowHasItComeToThis]

47. GIVE THE FUNDIES AN INCH AND THEY WILL TAKE A NATION

[Hannah Bell]

69. they can teach in charter schools.

[ixion]

71. and the schools that hire them will suffer for it

because anywhere outside of whacko-fundyland teaching creationism as a science won't earn you any credibility points.

[Hannah Bell]

79. the world is changing. the point of opening up degrees in creation science is to help change it.

when a large number of people are fundies & money & perks are given to fundies, it will earn credibility points.

if you control the rewards system, you control the definition of "credible".

the news item isn't an isolated event; it's part of an overall strategy. charter schools are part of the strategy, as was bush's hiring of white house staff from fundy universities.

[Jawja]

73. Wouldn't it be similar to a

degree in "Divinity" or some other such academia related to religion?

[ixion]

74. The difference in this case is they're trying to call it a science

as though a creationist was on par with physicist or biologist -- that is, the hard sciences.

I have no problem with degrees in philosophy or religion, which is pretty much what this is. My problem lies in their calling it a science degree, which it most certainly is not.

[marshall]

77. Does Duke still offer a Master's of Science in parapsychology?

I was fascinated by it when I was younger.

[ixion]

78. yep, they do, as far as I know...

still comes up if you google "duke university parapsychology".

I was fascinated with it when I was younger, too, and still admit to a casual interest.

The "soft" sciences like psychology, sociology and economics have fought like hell for decades to be taken seriously, and in most cases strive to be empirical. Creationsim, is not empirical by definition, since the core concept is, in essence, a fairy tale.

That's the difference, IMO.

Disclaimer: I was a Sociology / English major. :)

[Jawja]

85. Agreed.

Well put.

[KittyWampus]

2. Chicanery indeed.

[enlightenment]

3. And then they could add an MS in Alchemy -

and a D. of Medicine in Bloodletting . . .

Really though, is this degree any different from the mail-order Doctor of Divinity that's been floating around for years?

[jmowreader]

17. Certainly

The mail-order Doctor of Divinity can't be used on an application to teach school.

[No Elephants]

50. If they were good enough for the Dark Ages, they're good enough for Berman!

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Aw, what the hell. Why not?

a) It's Texas
b) Fundy colleges already teach shit like this.
c) If it flies, I may start a school based on teaching the literal inerrancy of the Poetic Edda.

[rocktivity]

5. It could be a degree in philiosphy or divinity

but no, not science.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[madmom]

6. I say let them do it. It might show, in the end, that it's a worthless subject.

[8 track mind]

7. Tyler. They always come from Tyler, Tx.

I totally hate my state.

[Nicole Lambeth]

22. ahh, yes...

I live in Tyler. I am not surprised at all. But please don't think we're all dumb-ass hicks out here - there are quite a few Dems who are working their butts off to turn this state blue. We're fighting an uphill battle in this particular area, and we're making small but measurable progress. Unfortunately, our esteemed Representative ain't helping! I hope his bill dies in committee.

[8 track mind]

35. oh i know, i should have

worded that a bit more carefully. I saw John Cornyn (sp) out at the airport in Tyler last month and he's even a bigger asshole in real life. He was trashing Obama and watching Fox News. why he was in Tyler i have no idea. It seems that Rick Perry has a fascination with Tyler as well.

[Hekate]

70. Welcome to DU! And thanks for working to turn Texas blue.

:hi:

Hekate''

[Manifestor_of_Light]

84. East Texas Democrat reporting in here!!

I'm south of you. About 60 miles South of Tyler.

At least Tyler has other places to shop besides Wallyworld!!! And they have Unitarians! That's civilization by my standards. :D


I get real tired of seeing that ass Louie Gohmert on TV. What a troglodyte dweeb.

Cornyn is a disgrace. He used to be a Civil District Judge in Harris County (Houston).

I think my state rep is a Democrat from Jacksonville. Having a Democratic Congresscritter would be too good to ask for.

We don't have crazy Democrats like Charlie Wilson anymore for amusement, dammit.

[No Elephants]

49. Aw, San Antonio is fun. And I hear Austin is cool.

[Kalyan]

8. no ... action should be taken...

don't let them do it ... if they want, let them give master in arts (creationism) but Creationism isn't science and unless proven by facts, should remain that way!

[mamameow]

31. distinction

i have no problem giving them a masters in ?????? as long as it clearly states it is a masters in creationism and not science, just as long as an employer knows that this so called science masters is in creationism, not science. just think of who would hire with a degree in creationism? one of their own and we can keep them isolated to their own group and not let out into the general public. watch bill maher's religulous, not only funny but how ridiculous religion is. religion is defined by your definition of insanity!!!!!

[pepperbear]

9. I don't like Ron Paul, but democrats woul have a cow if there was a law enforcement memo

that mentioned "Obama bumper sticker means terrorist radical".




A new document meant to help Missouri law enforcement agencies identify militia members or domestic terrorists has drawn criticism for some of the warning signs mentioned.

The Feb. 20 report called “The Modern Militia Movement” mentions such red flags as political bumper stickers for third-party candidates, such as U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, who ran for president last year....

[rrneck]

10. Fine by me

as long as the thesis requires the Masters candidate pray real hard and spontaneously create life. Or at least an egg salad sandwich.

[phantom power]

11. creationist lunacy aside, did anybody else notice....

this little gem: "Why should you be regulated if you don’t take any state or federal funding?”

Another classic GOP lunacy. The govt has no right to regulate private businesses!

:rofl:

[redqueen]

13. The ignorance is really astounding. (nt)

[No Elephants]

52. And no right to regulate education. Repug logic.

[Bolo Boffin]

12. They should be able to qualify for a Masters of Arts

Most theological institutes can. They can qualify for doctorates, even. But science this crap ain't.

[rolltideroll]

14. Hogwarts has the same degree track nt

[jmowreader]

15. The most important paragraph's not in the OP

All colleges and universities granting degrees in Texas currently must be issued a certificate of authority by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board (THECB). The certificate allows that institution to grant a higher education degree that is recognized by the state – a degree a graduate would need to apply for a teaching position in a Texas public school.

I was willing to meet them halfway--allow them to award their degree in fanatical mysticism if they agreed not to attempt to teach in Texas' public schools. Since it appears the intent is specifically to put their "creation scientists" into public school teaching positions, now I don't want them to be allowed to issue master's degrees.

[QUALAR]

16. Holy Shit

You mean man did not evolve from extra terrestrial fecal matter. This is very upsetting and undermines my faith in evolution.

[No Elephants]

54. Some did.

[pattmarty]

18. Looks like Texas is the NEW Alabama. Fucking weirdos!!!!

[EC]

19. Is the place even accredited?... n/t

[mbperrin]

23. Nope. Here's a little info at their own link:

http://www.icr.org/discover/

* Pursuant to California and Federal law, ICRGS currently offers an M.S. in Science Education, mostly online, to qualified students who are not Texas residents. ICR is currently examining its legal options regarding how it can best serve the educational "gaps" of Texas residents.

The reason they don't "serve" Texas residents is because it is a criminal offense to apply for a teaching job in Texas with a degree from a diploma mill.

They're obviously trying to run around the list of diploma mills:
http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/aar/privateinstitutions/notx.cfm
Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas
Consonant with its responsibilities under Chapter 61 of the Texas Education Code and rules promulgated pursuant thereto, the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board is reviewing the current status of institutions included on this list.

"Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code; conferred in another state in violation of that state's laws; conferred in another state by an institution that was not accredited by an accreditor recognized by the Coordinating Board and that has not been approved by the Coordinating Board for its degrees to be used in Texas; or conferred outside the United States by an institution that the Coordinating Board determines is not the equivalent of an accredited or authorized degree. (Texas Educational Code, Chapter 61, Section 61.302)

The Texas Penal Code (Section 32.52) prohibits the use of fraudulent or substandard degrees "in a written or oral advertisement or other promotion of a business; or with the intent to: obtain employment; obtain a license or certificate to practice a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain a promotion, a compensation or other benefit, or an increase in compensation or other benefit, in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain admission to an educational program in this state; or gain a position in government with authority over another person, regardless of whether the actor receives compensation for the position." Violation of this law is a Class B misdemeanor.

[No Elephants]

56. Well, if you're going to nitpick.........

[Turbineguy]

20. Rush Limbaugh makes $50 million per year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEBwP68FqVM

[scytherius]

21. Oh PLEASE let this pass

Nothing could more marginalize that bunch of morons than a bunch of PhD Creationism degrees. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pass this one. PLEASE. Did I say PLEASE?

[GoesTo11]

25. This is hilarious

I agree, just for the sake of our entertainment, they should do it. Maybe there could be a reality-based sitcom following the program.

[No Elephants]

55. Be careful what you wish for. Bush hired a bunch of graduates from Pat Robertson's law school, even

though it was not accredited and they had not passed the bar exam. I shudder to think what happens when the next neo theo occupies the Oval office if these "scientists" are floating around.

[TlalocW]

24. Eh, let them do it

Anybody who goes for that degree would be looking for a job with a right-wing religiously insane place to begin with. It's unlikely that they'll go looking for a professorship of biology at some reputable university, and if they did, they would get laughed at. Keep all the crazies in the same "place" so we can keep an eye on them.

TlalocW

[jpak]

26. I heard they will offer a Master's in Witchcraft, Sorcery and Vampire Slaying as well

:evilgrin:

[Tempest]

27. They would get laughed out of any job interview

Let 'em do it.

[QUALAR]

28. DIPLOMA

I understand that the diploma will be printed on grammar school construction paper. Curriculum must include underwater basket weaving while reciting your favorite psalm.

[No Elephants]

58. And if you don't float, you're a witch!

[KansDem]

29. The typical masters program is, what, 36 hours?

How do you teach selected myth and superstition for three 3-hour courses a semester for four semesters?

[vinylsolution]

30. Meet the next Governor of Texas....

Here he is:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6oj9Yv3mgXc/SUVZeK7bOkI/AAAAAAAABd0/abRaeMnW1L4/s320/vincent+price.jpg

[cosmicone]

32. I want a Doctor of Medicine in Voodoo. n/t

[Mz Pip]

33. How about a Masters

in Making Shit Up?

The candidate would have to do a thesis Making Shit Up. Then would have to Make More Shit Up to defend it.

There could be a whole department of Making Shit Up, with specialties in Creationism, Alien Physiology, the Language of Dinosaurs, and How Many Angels Can Fit on the Head of a Pin.

Good times!

[Zhade]

43. That would be redundant. That's what religion is.

NT!

[AB_Positive]

34. *takes deep breath*

My reaction in five words: Bullshit bullshit bullshit cockapoo bullshit

[ShortnFiery]

36. Here's a PIC of two of the future graduates.

:spray:

[pleah]

46. Don't do that!

I nearly wet myself!:wow:

[gauguin57]

37. I'll save my money for a degree from Clown College, thanks.

That degree will be worth more.

[Noodleboy13]

38. And I thought my degree was worthless.

And what would the intra-mural sports be like?



peace
Noodleboy

[depakid]

39. Teh stupid marches on in Texas

Sort of illustrates though why so many fundamentalists and cultists gravitate toward there.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

This is seriesly wrong.

[Zhade]

41. Not if it uses ONE FUCKING CENT of taxpayer money it won't!

NT!

[MountainLaurel]

44. Master of SCIENCE in creationism

:banghead:

Where's the smilie for "my head just exploded from the cognitive dissonance of these people"?

[tridim]

45. Texas is just jealous of Kansas

It's a race to the bottom.

[newtothegame]

48. It's a private organization, they should be able to do this.

The concerns about organizations popping up to "offer degrees in an fool subject you want" are foolish themselves. If an employer can't discern between a legitimate higher education degree and an illegitimate one, that's their problem.

[depakid]

57. Only if they call it : Masters of Sophistry in Creative Writing

[Zodiak]

60. Look at their home-page

"Turtle shell fossil found in the Arctic!!!"

As if these assholes have never heard of plate tectonics. Oh wait, they have, but they claim that North America wasn't tropical.

And here is the map.



See that line going through the top of Africa? That's the equator. Practically all of North America is fully within the northern tropical band. I guess if they put a map of Pangea in their article, their sophistry would be too obvious.

These people fail on so many levels. Hell no they should not have accreditation.

[Nevernose]

65. I'm not willing to go that Libertarian

There was a problem in the past with organizations popping up to "offer degrees in any fool subject you want" -- that's why they passed the law in the first place. It's not just a matter of employment, it's a matter of money. Do we not have an obligation to even the stupidest among us to protect them from chicanery like degrees in "creation science" and, say, "ghost hunting?"

How is it any different from helmet/seatbelt laws?

[wickerwoman]

83. Then why make any kind of fraud illegal?

Phishing should be legal because if you can't tell the difference between a legit and illegit e-mail it's your own damn fault? Why should the government be allowed to regulate Ponzi schemes? That's a private business and if people can't see that it's a scam, tough shit.

An MSc degree should actually means something. That's why we have a system of college accreditation. To expect small businesses to bear the burden of doing extensive background checks on employees who claim to have a higher degree but who in fact bought the credentials online and to not label that kind of action as fraud on the part of the applicant seems really, really ass-backwards to me.

[Zhade]

91. It's. Not. Science.

NT!

[Abacus]

51. (headfacedeskpalm)

[formercia]

53. How many illegitimate children does one have to produce?

before one becomes a Master in creationism science?

[Zodiak]

59. A Masters of in any field of science requires a thesis and novel research

How the hell does one do research into a cloud being? Where is the reproducibility? Where are the falsifiable hypotheses?

If these idiots are going to give out any degree, it should be arts, but since this whole friggin' university is not accredited and has a history of being a bunch of dogmatic non-experimenting losers, I do not think they should get even that. They only moved to Texas because California wouldn;t play along with their bullshit.

"Now that the ICR has relocated to Texas, the institute must either obtain Texas state approval or become accredited by a regional accrediting agency, in this case Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS).<28> The ICR has applied for a temporary state certification there which, if granted, would allow the institute to operate while it pursues accreditation through SACS.<29> In December 2007, the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board received an advisory committee recommendation to allow the ICR to start offering online master’s degrees in science education. The Board originally planned to decide on the issue at their January 2008 meeting.<28> At the time it applied, ICR graduate school had approximately 30 to 50 students, most teachers at private Christian schools or homeschoolers, and four full-time faculty."

In 1988 the ICR sought reapproval, resulting in a visit by a five-man committee that found that its graduate school faculty comprised only five full-time staff, made partial reliance on videotaped courses for instruction, had inadequate laboratory instruction and facilities and that the school's doctrinal tenets limited academic freedom. In spite of this, the committee initially voted 3-2 in favour of reapproval, only to reverse itself when a member changed his vote.<4> This resulted in California's Office of the State Superintendent of Public Instruction barring the institute from granting master's degrees in science, threatening their existing graduate degree programs in the teaching of biology, geology, astrogeophysics and science."

So they don't do research, they teach with stupid propaganda videotapes, and they have less Ph.Ds than I have in my lab....none of which publish.

As a person who does have a Masters of Science from Texas, this bill is a goddamned outrage. If it passes, it cheapens the actual science degree I earned through painstaking research and hard work. That god I got my Ph.D. from another state because it seems like my home-state is bound and determined to make themselves the laughing stock of the world.

This is, of course, on top of the outrage of all of the tenured professors they fired from UTMB because of the hurricane.

[MilesColtrane]

61. .

[NoodleyAppendage]

62. That's great. Now I can start my school for a Masters Degree in Booger Rolling.

Booger rolling skill has about the same level of difficulty as creation science.

J

[L. Coyote]

63. Welcome to the global laughing stocks, Rep Berman.

You just earned an ignominious place in political history. Now, where are those rotten tomatoes?

[Nevernose]

64. How is that any different than a Master's in Theology?

One could even add, I suspect without the board's approval, "...with an emphasis in Creation Science" at the end.

Unless of course you just wanted to stir some shit up politically, turning a once great state into both a theocracy and a laughing-stock.

[MadMaddie]

66. A Continuation of the attack against science

pathetic

[NYC Liberal]

67. I say let them do it - then they'll be EXPOSED rather than HIDING under the guise

of another, *real* degree.

[aquart]

68. Ah, but who's gonna endow the chair for it?

Can't wait till they start calling for papers, can you?

[End Of The Road]

72. If there is ONE good thing about the Texas Constitution

it's that it is pretty difficult to get a bill passed. Otherwise, things in this state would be crazier than they are. I suspect this one will die in committee.

Right now, I'm a bit more concerned with the state's lack of enthusiasm for even funding higher ed.

Not to mention the Voter ID bill...

[Vickers]

75. "offer degrees in any fool subject you want"

Now *there's* the Texas I love!

:rofl:

I'm just relieved this isn't Florida...

[Marrah_G]

76. not surprising

[WriteDown]

80. I'm embarassed for my current home state....

Luckily, I've never heard of this Leo Berman character and hope I never do again.

[Aristus]

81. The only place a degree like that would hold any weight is the Church of the 6,000 year-old Earth.

So, keep it off your resume...

[merh]

82. Don't they already give these degress - Theology?

Enrollment must be down, they need the influx of religious right blood and coins.

[mr_smith007]

86. This would more

appropriately be a Master of Science in Cartoons. Like Lewis Black said, these people watch the Flintstones like it was a documentary.

[Zorra]

87. Texas is creating a new form of government known as an Idiocracy. n/t

[Joe Bacon]

88. Well, chalk up another one for Tex Ass

Tex Ass IS the laughing stock of the world :rofl:

[fascisthunter]

89. great.. a state condones brainwashing people with religious garbage

[daleo]

92. I am all for it, if they can create a universe from nothing

That could be their thesis project. If they can't do that, then it's not science.