Strip-Search of Girl Tests Limit of School Policy

[depakid]

Source: NY Times


Savana Redding, 19, was strip searched six years ago when teachers suspected she had brought prescription pills to school.
---------------

Savana Redding still remembers the clothes she had on — black stretch pants with butterfly patches and a pink T-shirt — the day school officials here forced her to strip six years ago. She was 13 and in eighth grade. An assistant principal, enforcing the school’s antidrug policies, suspected her of having brought prescription-strength ibuprofen pills to school. One of the pills is as strong as two Advils.

The search by two female school employees was methodical and humiliating, Ms. Redding said. After she had stripped to her underwear, “they asked me to pull out my bra and move it from side to side,” she said. “They made me open my legs and pull out my underwear.”

Ms. Redding, an honors student, had no pills. But she had a furious mother and a lawyer, and now her case has reached the Supreme Court, which will hear arguments on April 21. The case will require the justices to consider the thorny question of just how much leeway school officials should have in policing zero-tolerance policies for drugs and violence, and the court is likely to provide important guidance to schools around the nation.

In Ms. Redding’s case, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in San Francisco, ruled that school officials had violated the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches. Writing for the majority, Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw said, “It does not require a constitutional scholar to conclude that a nude search of a 13-year-old child is an invasion of constitutional rights.” “More than that,” Judge Wardlaw added, “it is a violation of any known principle of human dignity.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/us/24savana.html?_r=1&hp

---

My prediction: 5-4 against the girl.

[madaboutharry]

1. It could swing the other way.

I say 5-4 for the girl. I think Justice Kennedy, "the new swing vote", may have a problem with the school's conduct. It is hard to predict.

[saigon68]

80. This Ignorant FUCK FACE won't allow it.

He likes a Nazi Police State

[dipsydoodle]

2. WTF are prescription strength ibuprofen pills ?

400mgrams ibuprofen tablets are available over the counter at chemists in the UK without prescription.

[hobbit709]

3. Or just take 2 200mg tablets.

[rfranklin]

4. In most countries you can get opiates without a prescription...

This country is nuts when it comes to drugs. But you can get all the alcohol you want. (Even though it is also a drug.)

[paulsby]

57. in canada you can't even get

many perfectly legal (in the US and elsewhere) nutritional supplements even WITH a prescription.

iow, there's lots of idiocy in regards to drug laws to go around. the US is not special in this regard.

[arikara]

75. Which supplements aren't available?

I live in Canada... our health food stores are full of nutritional supplements, herbs, vitamins etc. I can also go to little herbal dispensaries and buy tinctures, and even bulk herbs to encapsulate my own to save money.

The government is trying to bring in a new law that will allow them interfere with our right to use herbs and supplements, Bill c-6 and they are being very sneaky about it. However at this time there are no restrictions and I doubt they will get away with it.

[dysfunctional press]

76. but you CAN get 222's otc in canada- and they contain codeine.

nt

[Scairp]

69. Usually just codeine

And so many people are allergic to it, including me, that I'm not so sure it should even be around anymore. They are about to do away with Darvon/Darvocet because it's so weak it doesn't do any good for pain control and people end up taking too much and getting sick, and it's been around for at least 30 years.

As for this search that went too far over something you can buy anywhere, and you don't even have to be an adult to do so, it's got to stop. I know illegal drugs must be found if a kid has them at school, but they knew they were only looking for a LEGAL drug, so this went way too far. Kids still do have rights in school, and one of them should be protection against a humiliating search for Motrin like she was dealing smack. Really outrageous. I hope she wins, because if she doesn't then many more kids will have to undergo this kind of a search for shit that isn't even illegal.

[Redwraithvienna]

5. I do think ...

this comment is sarcastic ... hence the "as strong as two advil" comment. You can buy Advil in Bottles with up to 200 Pills in them... So something thats as strong as two advil is not really "strong" in any way.

[acmavm]

6. 800 miligrams. My friend had a 'scrip.

[Redwraithvienna]

7. Even if its 2000mg ...

It doesnt really matter cause you can buy ibuprofen tablets up to 400mg in any drugstore.

So instead of 1 tablet you just take 2,3,4... and get the same result.

Although i am not sure which result you aim for with ibuprofen. Besides getting rid of pain.

[acmavm]

8. All I know is for some reason you have to have a scrip for a dosage

that high. And you're right, you can take a bunch of regular Ibuprofen and get the same effect. It will also fuck with you innards too. That shit is bad juju if you take too much for too long.

[dipsydoodle]

11. It good for me

if my hip aches in the morning - I was told to take one 400mg on those occasions as an alternative to 6 monthly whatever steroid jabs. It's also good for pain relief in daft occurences such as when one my pals flipped a ski on a glacier run and it took out all of his top front teeth when it torpedoed him in the mouth.

[paulsby]

58. the reason is this

ibuprofen used to require a script for ANY dosage.

due to danger issues (note : most drugs have dangers, more or less so depending on dosage).

when ibuprofen was taken off the legend drug list (wherein script was required), it was agreed to only approve below a certain dosage.

yes, of course you can just take more pills.

regardless, that was how they got it taken off the script list.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. 800 mg. Very powerful.

It's like, like, taking FOUR at once.

:eyes:

Like ANYBODY is EVER going to take fucking headache pills recreationally. My dad had to take them, and I sometimes took some of his, because it was simpler than taking the three or four off the shelf pills I needed. Most people can't take them because they upset the stomach.

[paulsby]

59. plenty of people abuse them

i have been to a # of suicide attempts involving either ibuprofen or acetaminophen (tylenol).

there are lots of drugs that are regulated that are not going to be abused recreationally.

contrarily, one of the most dangerous and deadly drugs that exists (insulin) is available OTC in many locations, including my state.

[christx30]

70. Insulin can get you

pretty high. If by "high" you mean "into heaven".
Healthy person taking a hit of insulin? Doesn't that bring about the symptoms of a heart attack? Including death?

[emmadoggy]

32. In the US you can only buy ibuprofen in

200 mg strength over the counter. The pills are available in 400, 600, and 800mg by prescription.

Of course, it's easy to just take 2, 3, or 4 OTC pills if you need the extra strength.

[smoogatz]

36. I've been given scrips for 800mg Ibuprofen for back pain: they pack a wallop

roughly equivalent to, you know, three full-strength aspirin.

[WhiteTara]

42. my prescription strength is 600 mg nt/

[droidamus2]

9. Don't understand

Maybe it is because I am a male but I don't understand this. When I was in school (junior high in the late 1960's) there is no damn way that I would have allowed teachers to strip search me. If need be I would have just gone home and dealt with the consequences later. Yes, schools need a certain amount of control to enforce discipline but this is way beyond anything that should be allowed. Back in my day they were still giving swats when you acted up and I gave teachers hell every time they threatened me with corporal punishment (didn't always get me out of the swat but they never wanted to use that punishment on me again). Just as children are taught that they should not allow people to touch them in their 'special' places they should also be told that if they uncomfortable with what people in authority are asking them to do that they should demand to have a parent or guardian present before the authorities proceed and yes as this girl has done take them to court if they refuse.

[lostnfound]

15. Did ya think the new fences around the schools were to keep predators OUT?

There were predators in America back in the 20s and 30s and 40s and 50s, too. Probably just as many. The impact of having the fences and gates around the schools may very well ultimately be the psychological state it creates in the kids: Submit to the system. There is no escape.

I know this sounds extreme. But like you, I remember when it was possible to simply walk away. I am not saying that a 13 year old wasn't physically capable of running out the front door. I am saying that for 7 years she had been in a system that stripped her of the sense that she was a free individual, and it was repeatedly reinforced that the herders in charge of the flock had the right to set the rules.

[droidamus2]

17. I see your point

Maybe for me it was because the '60's were in general a time of questioning authority and not accepting everything you were told that even on a closed campus I still left if I wanted to. I returned to college in the early '80's and it amazed me at how complacent the students were. They seemed to not want to rock the boat and were more intent on 'getting that good job'. During my first adventures in college in the early-to-mid 70's we had a lot of protester types and Vietnam vets in our classes that had no problem standing up and challenging the Professors. When I returned in the 80's it was much more sit there, take notes, pass your tests and most importantly don't make waves that might effect your GPA. I guess these kids, as you stated, are taught from a very early age that money/success is the thing and you have to go along with the powers that be to reach those goals. Sad!

[ieoeja]

44. Indiana University, 1980-84

My freshman year upper classmen would walk into a class with a beer in hand. That ended the following year as alcohol was banned on campus, even in your dorm room**.

My senior year I'd go to class in cut-offs and sandals surrounded by freshmen and sophomores in their business suits.


**Unless you made no effort to hide the booze and just walked by the cops carrying it unwrapped for the whole world to see. Then they assumed you were one of the resident assistants allowed to have alcohol. This probably wouldn't have worked if too many of us had tried it. But I was the only one who ever tried it so far as I ever knew.

[hendo]

30. Ah, but the media is more advanced now

they like people to believe the world has become more dangerous, when actually the opposite is true.

[enlightenment]

28. Unfortunately, suspension is the least of the problems she might

have faced these days. Expulsion and/or arrest might have followed a refusal to cooperate. Zero tolerance policies are resulting in extreme and oftime ridiculous responses to everything that happens in schools these days.

Common sense is gone.

[droidamus2]

41. Not a problem

Expelled from a school that would strip search you on the suspicion of carrying Ibuprofen I wouldn't have any problem leaving that school. In fact I would never return to that school. As long as she didn't get physical or verbally abusive but just refused to cooperate or outright left and went home I don't see how she would be arrested. Of course you can always find some dumbass cop or security guy to go beyond what the law allows and take somebody in with no reason.

[tblue37]

54. Arrested for truancy then. nt

[paulsby]

60. no

get real.

truancy laws don't work that way.

and i say that as somebody with extensive experience with same.

refusing an order to strip by a school official is not arrestable offense.

[Posteritatis]

68. And then any college/employer would just see "expelled for drug use." (nt)

[AngryAmish]

33. Were you ever an alter boy?

If so, then you would be used to authorities "searching" you.

[tomm2thumbs]

10. the 'prescription strength' issue is somewhat absurd

were they hunting for a gun or a knife or a major controlled drug?... or a 'prescription strength' version of advil - I mean PLEEASE?!!

i think they crossed the line when it came to the reason for the search - when one prescription version is the same as two over the counter, they lack credibility on how important it was to go that far. This was not a 'need to search' issue and sounds like someone is going to be regretting their decision.

[endarkenment]

14. What they were hunting for is irrelevant

the constitution is clear. Our rights have been stripped and cavity searched from us using the 'ticking time bomb' rational for the last 30 years. There is no 'need to search' exemption in the constitution. The state must have probable cause and a warrant laying out exactly what it is looking for, otherwise it may not violate your privacy.

[paulsby]

61. false

i readily agree that there have been some bad decision, but the 4th does NOT require a warrant for a search.

it requires probable cause.

however, it then references when warrants shall issue.

but it does not say searches are ONLY authorized with a warrant.

and 200 years of case law supports various warrant requirements (exigency, incident to arrest, consent, plain view, etc.)

[surrealAmerican]

64. ... and schools have been legally searching their students ...

... in other ways for years. The empty your pockets, backpack, etc. and locker searches are common in our schools.

[mainegreen]

12. "as strong as two Advils". OH NOES.

Damned mental midgets making moronic rules.

[Strong Atheist]

13. As a teacher, I can confidently say that the decision to do a strip search in this case was

stupid, boneheaded, insane, and unreasonable. It is something that would not be done at the school I work at...

[AnneD]

22. It wouldn't happen at mine either......

and if asked (as the school Nurse it is possible), I would flatly refuse. I don't check the neither regions period. Only one time did I ever do that and the little girl was screaming and hollering because she had gotten some nasty splinters in her butt-it was a completely Mom reaction on my part. After I got the big splinters out, I called the mom and apologized for not calling her first. We had a very close relationship for the next 4 years and still laugh about that one.

If you want a search you get a warrant. I have drilled that into my daughter's head.

[90-percent]

16. School kids should have a plan

That is to say, they should be in solidarity to prevent any of their own to be hauled away and strip searched. Collectively revolt against the teachers or any authority that would do this.

Ahhh, we're all sheep. That's way too pie in the sky in these 'every man for himself' times.

-90% Jimmy

[FailureToCommunicate]

18. remember "Tinker vs Des Moines" (1969) "...Civil rights do not end when walking thru

the schoolyard gates." --Justice Fortas

[90-percent]

23. Tinker

If I remember correctly, Sarah Palin used that very case as part of her Doctoral Thesis back in her post graduate days?

-90% Jimmy

:sarcasm:

[FailureToCommunicate]

24. In Palin's defense, when I asked myself Couric's question I could only think of like seven

Supreme Court decisions, off the top of my head...
Anyway, poor Palin.
Miss her already.

[depakid]

50. Tninker's on the ropes if not wholly dead

Done in by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_v._Frederick">Bong Hits for Jesus and by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_School_District_v._Fraser">a man who is firm, firm in his pants...

[FailureToCommunicate]

56. Who says this generation of kids isn't standing up for important social causes!

And so smart to take them to the more Conservative SC.
Boy, does my black arm band seem faded...
Thanks, I guess, for the update.

[The Wizard]

19. Make the searchers defend

a child molestation complaint. No matter the outcome their lives will be ruined. They will always be known as convicted or suspected child molesters.
Depending on the Supreme Court for justice is like expecting the truth from Antonin Scalia.

[FailureToCommunicate]

20. Good idea!

[BattyDem]

40. Exactly!

As I said in my post below, if a school employee forced a child to strip, it would be a crime ... but because there was a "search" involved, it's no problem?!? That's absurd! :grr:

[Jefferson23]

21. 5 to 4 in favor of the girl, if that does not happen, God help us. This

went well beyond violating the principles of human dignity, a public school that insisted a child be stripped searched because they suspected she might have drugs.

They can suspect all they please but that should never give them the power to proceed to a strip search based on that, unbelievable and disgusting!

[Belial]

25. Govt Schools at their finest..

[smoogatz]

38. Like this kind of stuff never happens at church schools.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Ever heard of Brother Roloff?

[eggplant]

26. Not that this matters even a little bit

but Rx Ibuprofin is not the same as OTC. It is formulated for long-acting absorption in the colon, as opposed to OTC, which is absorbed quickly in the stomach. If you take the equivalent amount of OTC, you'll trash your stomach and quite possibly have a really bad OD reaction.

Of course, this is completely irrelevent to the point, which is that the bastards need to hang.

[emmadoggy]

35. I know it can be hard on the stomach,

but I used to take 4 OTC ibuprofen to tackle my menstrual cramps every 5-6 hours (which I know is pushing it, but that's what it took to manage).

I used to work in a pharmacy and never heard of the difference you are describing. Not saying it's not true, just never heard that before. If that IS the case, then why the F*ck won't OB/GYN's prescribe stronger pain relief for women like me who needed it every month? They are the ones who told me to take the OTC levels.

That said, I have never had a reaction or problem of any kind taking a higher OTC dose (though some people may).

[truebrit71]

29. Without a parent present? Sorry but there would be violence done to someone if that were my child...

...I hope that the SCROTUS rules for the girl, otherwise a VERY dangerous precedent will have been set...

[MineralMan]

31. As far as I am concerned, nobody at a school should be

strip searching anybody. If they believe a strip search is needed, then call the cops and have the person arrested.

In this case, there was zero probable cause for any search at all, much less a strip search.

[tonysam]

34. I Would Bet the USSC Would Rule 9-0 in Favor of the Girl.

This is pretty egregious.

[paulsby]

62. i agree nt

[depakid]

63. "This is pretty egregious."

So are at least 4 and often 5 members of the Supreme Court.

[barbtries]

37. it outrageous

Judge Wardlaw got that right. she's probably still suffering from PTSD

[tblue37]

55. Especially at that age young girls are very sensitive and self-conscious

about their bodies. Most can't even bear to have their own mothers see them undressed!

[BattyDem]

39. How is this not a crime?

If a school employee forced a child to strip, it would be illegal ... but because it was a strip "search" that means it's fine?!?!? :grr:

If they believed the girl had any kind of drugs, they should have called her parents or the police. Who gave them the authority to perform a strip search on anyone?!? If another teacher was suspected of violating the school's "zero tolerance" policy, would that teacher have been forced to submit to a strip search? Somehow, I doubt it.

No adult would EVER be subjected to a strip search by an employer, co-worker, etc., so I don't see how it can possibly be legal to do this to a minor! A public school is not a prison - you don't surrender your rights the moment you walk through the door.

[Gormy Cuss]

48. I'm sure they'll contend it was voluntary.

In that the girl could have said no and been expelled on the spot --in other words, coercively voluntary and they counted on the girl being scared out of her wits and not realizing that.

This quote made me furious:

The school district does not contest that Ms. Redding had no disciplinary record, but says that is irrelevant.

“Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules,” the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, “only that she was never caught.”

This school district is filled with morons.

[christx30]

71. This is probably why

some people want a weak government. They think a weak government means a government that is not able to cow the citizenry into this kind of search.
Stop dumbing down the schools. Start teaching the kids to stand up for their rights. Learn the Constitution. Know what the government can and cannot do. And set strict limits on what people in authority can do.
A violation of one person's rights is a violation of everyone's. This is what happens with a view of the constitution as a malleable document that changes with the times. And please don't accuse me of being a troll. I post here all the time and make some good points about things. But when you allow the government to do one thing that is now allowed by the Constitution, it opens up a whole lot of room for interpretation. And 9 times out of 10, that interpretation will not favor people's rights.

[Gormy Cuss]

73. People who see weak government as a solution to this sort of problem aren't thinking clearly.

It's much more direct to view it as a local problem and handle it directly. Had a teacher or administrator even SUGGESTED that I remove an article of clothing I would have said no and walked out of the school and my mother would have raised holy hell, but then I knew that teachers weren't allowed to hit me or touch me in inappropriate ways. Parents have the ability and responsibility to teach their children to stand up for their rights. The school's role is to reinforce it.

Long before one gets into constitutional considerations this sort of behavior can and should be quashed.




p.s. don't know why anyone would call you a troll based on that post.

[christx30]

78. I just think

that if the government knew of it's limitations and was terrified of breaching those limitations, it would be better for everyone.
If the government weren't so focused on the drug thing all the time then things like this wouldn't happen. OMG!! Someone is going to get high! We must spend billions and suspend everyone's rights in order to make sure that some guy can't toke up a joint.

Tired of this stuff. Tired of what it's doing to my country.

[benEzra]

79. Geez, that is some tortured logic...

The school district does not contest that Ms. Redding had no disciplinary record, but says that is irrelevant.

“Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules,” the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, “only that she was never caught.”

Hmmm....

"The fact that the school principal and staff have never been convicted of child molestation should not be misread to infer that they have never raped children, only that they have never been caught."

I don't think they'd want that "logic" applied to themselves...

[Chulanowa]

49. Right on the money

This is abuse and molestation, plain and fucking simple. Adults taking advantage of their authority position to get a thrill, whether from demeaning a kid or seeing a naked 13 year old.

[file83]

51. It's the same logic behind pornography, a hooker is illegal, but if you film it, it's legal.

That has never made sense to me, and I agree with you. Why does tagging a "search" onto the activity of essentially forcing a 13 year old to get naked make it "ok"?

It's a means-to-an-end sort of justification. They feel they have to violate the girl sexually in order to protect her from Advil. Uh, okay.

[tom_paine]

43. Ah, if only the 4th Amendment and the Constitution meant anything.

5-4 against.

The Supreme Court is neither supreme nor a court.

[fjc]

45. Sounds like sexual abuse to me.

[depakid]

53. Interestingly enough- that may be the emotional angle that sways the court

What we've had for a long time in this country on certain sorts of cases is a prounced form of "results oriented Jurisprudence" on the high court. They figure out what result they want via ideology or "gut" and then reverse engineer the case laws and construe the statutes in a manner that will get there- either in the case at hand or some foreseeable cae down the road.

[New Dawn]

65. Exactly.

[Withywindle]

67. Yup. Sexual assault, in my opinion.

Forcing someone in a subordinate, vulnerable position to strip, with coercion and threats? What else would you call it?

[superconnected]

46. Strip searched for aspirn, well it was during the bush years, I expect a change.

[AndyTiedye]

47. I Fear that The Supreme Court Will Find In Favor of the School

The Bushidas on the court want to establish this kind of precedent. They want it very badly.
This would kick the police state into high gear.

[KamaAina]

52. As strong as *two Advils*?!

My god! The entire foundation of Western civilization might have crumbled before our very eyes, if not for the brave strip-searching warriors of Safford, Ariz.!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[superconnected]

66. Plus, the girl may have been a terrorist.

I wonder if they called Homeland Security.

[TXRAT2]

72. Had it been my daughter

The Principle would have an ex-Sheriff, ex-County Judge banging on his door and possibly his head.

[jamesinca]

74. I think they will vote against her

Here is why. The current chief justice, while in the Reagan administration justice department, wrote that this should be allowed. He came out strongly against the Fourth amendment and is reintroducing that same bs into the system now. This will be a case to push his point. There are four who solidly are behind the destruction of America so they are only one vote away.

[tonysam]

77. I Still Believe the Girl Will Win, But

I was reading a recent column from Findlaw explaining how the justices could rule against her.

It was an interesting read. Children's rights should not be any less than those of adults.