Saudi clerics want women banned from TV, media

[Neo Atheist]

Source: AFP

Hardline Saudi clerics have called on the government to ban women from appearing on television and to prohibit their images in print media, which they called a sign of growing "deviant thought."

In a letter to new Information Minister Abdul Aziz al-Khoja that appeared on websites this week, the 35 Islamic clerics also condemned the increase of music and dancing on television, as well as images of women in popular newspapers and magazines that they labelled "obscene."

"Our faith in you is great to carry out media reform, for we have seen how perversity is rooted in the ministry of information and culture, on television, radio, in the press, literary clubs, and book fairs," the letter said.

It cited an alleged plan to "westernise" Saudi women by "reducing their rights to a question of removing veils, wearing makeup and mixing with men."

Read more: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.62a148d8155607db7d3fc5217177f85f.901&show_article=1

---

So the theocrats/fascists in the KSA, responsible for jailing and beating the crap out of a 75 year old woman, feel that allowing women to be visible in public is a reduction of their rights. Not being hidden from society is somehow misogynistic. Somehow making women wear the hijab is less oppressive than giving them the option of wearing whatever the hell they want.

I love it how the apartheid kingdom is our ally against Islamic extremism...

[New Dawn]

1. The Neocons always refer to Saudi Arabia as a "moderate country."

They call it "moderate" because it is a US satellite. Of course, in actuality, SA is the most repressive absolute monarchy in the world, with numerous backward, barbaric laws (like public beheadings).

[Neo Atheist]

4. The Reaganite Neocons have always favored authoritarianism

Neoconservatives of the Kristol-Podhoretz-Bolton vein were supportive of neo-fascists like Augusto Pinochet. It's unsurprising that some of the purported believers in "revolutionary democracy" will wink and nod at criminals like the Saudi monarchy and right wing authoritarians elsewhere.

[Djinn]

70. Just Neocons?

Do you think any Democrats will be referring to the Saudi ruling class as "violent sexist throwback Wahhabi nutjobs" any time soon?

[msongs]

2. women are just 2 legged cows and sheep for that crowd nt

[Warpy]

3. Well, it's the abaya, a full body shroud

A hijab is a simple head scarf and that's what women in the more liberated parts of the Islamic world wear.

As for the clerics and their silly demand, it's just par for the course for them. Since women are such a terrible distraction to weak males, they want them all shrouded up as though they are already dead.

It's just more of men blaming women for their own lack of self control.

[Lorien]

5. Amen to that. Our own fundementalists have been blaming women

for their complete lack of self control for centuries. I wonder if porn is heavily consumed by Saudi men too?

[Neo Atheist]

7. of course it is

not to mention how the clerical authority and the monarchy loves to jetset while snorting cocaine and fucking prostitutes.

[saigon68]

20. In addition to the prostitutes

They like to gamble on the Riviera.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

19. SA is a big player in the sex trafficking trade too...

:mad:
from what I understand--I remember when bush denounced sex trafficking (did he pass some sanctions? I can't remember), then right afterward, went to SA and waived it for them.... (if anyone remembers the details better, please correct me)

I just saw a PBS Frontline documentary on sex trafficking...it was VERY upsetting.

[Lorien]

32. It's amazing how when there's real sexual repression going on there

is also sexual abuse, hatred of women, a rise in "deviant" behavior and a huge jump in porn consumption. Yet when you look at cultures where there's a high level of comfort with sexuality and women have far greater freedoms and enjoy far more equality within that society. Kind of like the difference between the war like chimpanzee culture and the peaceful bonobo culture. Perhaps what the world really needs (especially the Middle East and our own Southern states) is a few more Dr. Ruths!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

35. yes...the Netherlands, I think

is well known for their sexual openness, and low rates of sexual offenses...low rates of actual offences that harm people, I mean--not offences against laws prohibiting consensual behaviors. Also for their high standard of living

[Lionel Mandrake]

25. Women have been blamed for everything bad for thousands of years.

Examples: (1) Eve, (2) Pandora.

[No Elephants]

43. I very much doubt that seeing a woman's hair ever drove any man who was not already a rapist to

attack a woman. I don't think it's about self control at all. It's about subjugation.

[No Elephants]

39. If seeing so much a a lock of a woman's hair makes a man lose control, he may need a padded cell.

[kdmorris]

6. Hijab != Abaya

Saudi women wear what is called an Abaya, which is a covering from head to foot, including her face.

A hijab is just a head scarf that covers the head and neck.

I can't believe that we are allied with these people. They want women off of television, they still aren't allowed to drive and any "mixing" with non-relative men is forbidden unless chaperoned and covered. Very backwards, that society.

Edited because it didn't like my "not equal to" symbol ( <> )so I changed it to a different one ( != ).

[Neo Atheist]

8. I find the hijab just as sexist as the abaya

the difference is immaterial to me as they're both tools used to enforce primitive notions of male supremacy within society.

[hedgehog]

10. So, the fact that women have to wear shirts while men can go topless?

The hijab doesn't bother me. The fact that I would be required to wear a dress with sleeves in St. Peter's does. I wear sleeveless dresses to Mass in America and find this requirement bogus.

[Neo Atheist]

17. I honestly couldn't care less if women went topless

if the reason for women being forced to wear shirts is some biblical/quranic notion of morality, then i am wholesale against it.

[Dorian Gray]

28. I don't think men

are allowed to go sleeveless in St. Patrick's either.

[leftynyc]

37. Hijabs don't bother me either - it's the

FORCED wearing of it - where not wearing it will get you beaten or arrested that bothers me.

[No Elephants]

44. Are you saying that you wear a hijab and wearing one does not bother you as much as having to wear

short sleeves in St. Peter's?

Or, are you saying that the fact that women other than yourself have to wear a hijab (or an abaya) every day of their adult lives does not bother you as much as the fact that you yourself had to wear sleeves during a perhaps once in a lifetime tour of St. Peter's?

[kdmorris]

15. I do not believe that they are always used as sexist tools

The abaya is required to be worn in Saudi Arabia and some more fundamentalist countries. The hijab is something that women wear, as a choice, in America and other countries that allow women to dress as they wish.

Men in Islam are also supposed to dress modestly. It is only the more restrictive interpretations of the Koran that require a woman to be hidden away like a piece of prize property. If it is a choice by the person who is practicing that faith, I have no problems with it. It only becomes a problem to me when it is forced on people.

[Jamastiene]

26. That is my feeling on it as well.

It comes down to choice. If a woman decides to wear it herself, then fine. If it is forced on her, no way.

[No Elephants]

40. It's not that simple. What underlies that choice is sexism, letting men decide

what is or is not appropriate for women, etc.

[kdmorris]

54. It's never that simple

But I believe that girls and women in America do have the choice to wear a headscarf or not. That being said, I've do realize that, even in America, men make decisions on what is appropriate for women and dictate their choices in clothing (look at all the women in the FLDS, for example). But I do not believe that is the case in all instances of women wearing headscarves in America and most of Europe.

I abhor the instances of sexism that force women to wear long dresses and braids, that force women to wear a head to foot black shroud and that force women to wear long skirts and head scarves (orthodox Judiasm). I just do not believe that this is what is happening in every single case, especially in the case of a woman wearing a simple head scarf vs the more restrictive clothing I just listed. In many of these cases, the rules are just a strict for men (look at what the men in the FLDS wear, what men in Saudi Arabia wear and what Orthodox Jewish men wear). In each of these cases, the "dress code" for men is also designed to adhere to a strict set of rules.

[No Elephants]

61. I choose to wear a head scarf so that I am less of a slut and so my family and my religion does

not shun me.

That is not exactly a free choice, as in, I choose to wear flats because heels ruin my calves in the long run.

The dress code may be strict for men, but enforcement of the code--and all lawsy-- is very different for men than it is for women. Both the law and the culture are much more indulgent of male transgressions.

[kdmorris]

64. Are you talking about in America?

I know a lot of women that choose to wear a headscarf. They don't do it because of any pressure from their husbands or fathers in America and parts of Europe. I don't know what law or culture you are talking about. There are no laws in America or in most of Europe that state that Muslim women must wear a headscarf. I've already stipulated that women in places like Saudi Arabia have no choice in their clothing and therefore, it is forced, which is wrong.

For what it is worth, the Muslim men that I've known in America ALSO adhere to their dress code, never wearing short sleeves, nor opening their collars.

[No Elephants]

76. It does not matter which country I am talking about, but, yes, it applies in America. Who

said anything about laws? Being considered a slut (or anathema) and being shunned by your religion, family and society do not require laws. As far as the men, I've already addressed that, but I'll say it again. There is a double standard in enforcement, whether social or legal.

[kdmorris]

77. You said "anything about laws"

"The dress code may be strict for men, but enforcement of the code--and all laws"

The basic fact is that, in America, you cannot help the way you are raised, but you can decide to be and do something else. I was raised as a Southern Baptist, but I'm an atheist now. In Saudi Arabia, women are NOT given a choice about what to wear, what to eat, who to marry, etc. They are forced to because they cannot just leave the life they were raised in (they are also not allowed to leave the country).

In America, it is WAY different. Every single person on the compound that is run by the FLDS may considered the women who left that life behind to be sluts (including their families, religion and THAT society), but society at large does not. They DO have a choice and that is what I'm trying to say.

You keep lumping the entire world in with the stupidity of a few countries and that is disingenuous. Women in America do have the choice to wear a hijab or not. Women in Saudi Arabia (and Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Turkey, among others) DO NOT.

[Occulus]

38. I work with a woman who wears a hijab

They always come across as part of her 'outfit'. Always coordinated, very unobtrusive- she wears it like it's just another accessory. To be honest, they look good on her.

Maybe she just has fashion sense with the things...

[No Elephants]

41. Gold chains are still chains, however attractive.

[No Elephants]

51. Some Saudi women wear only the head covering..

[kdmorris]

56. They would be arrested if they did

Western women visiting Saudi Arabia can get away with just a head scarf and long dress, but citizens of Saudi Arabia are required to wear a long coat, head covering and veil their face. They are also forbidden to drive and cannot leave home without the permission of their male keeper (husband, father, brother, cousin, whatever nearest male relative is her guardian).

Edited to add a link:
Wearing the hijab is enforced in Saudi Arabia. All Saudi Muslim women are required to wear a full black cloak, called an abaya, a headcovering and niqāb or face veil. They can be harassed by the religious police if they do not. The Saudi niqāb usually leaves a long open slot for the eyes; the slot is held together by a string or narrow strip of cloth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

[No Elephants]

58. I saw something that said otherwise, but looking at more sources, I think you are

right.

In cities, it may be loosening. http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/articles/2007/ioi/070530-women-abaya.html

And things may be different at night. http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/articles/2007/ioi/070530-women-abaya.html

Even if the rule were wearing a gold necklace, as long as the men are making the rules for what women MUST wear, it stinks.

[kdmorris]

65. I'm glad they are getting away with that.

Yes, it stinks that women are treated as property in SA. I cannot imaging living a life in which I was not allow to leave the house without my husband's permission. That is so foreign to me.

[No Elephants]

75. Husbands in America got away with forbidding their wives to do

this, that and the other in the past, and not so long ago. In fact, many of the control freaks and abusers still get away with it.

[kdmorris]

78. I understand that

I'm not even sure why the hell you are arguing with me, anymore. Society is changing in America and men do not always get away with treating their women like property. In Saudi Arabia, they not only get away with it, but it it is IN THEIR LAWS that women are treated like property.

THAT is the difference.

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. But clearly, looking at the photo in #58 (1st link), any face veil is optional

since that's an official photo without any veil.

And, 5 years ago, a woman was reading the TV news there with face unveiled:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3631743.stm

I think the latest Wikipedia edit wasn't that reliable.

[kdmorris]

79. In all fairness, it said "harrassed" not arrested

So perhaps my choice of words was incorrect.

[ohio2007]

71. meanwhile; Iraqi Women Can Now Say No to Hijab or Head Scarf

change we can believe in ?

All over Baghdad the gradual improvements in security and the near-disappearance of militiamen and al Qaeda members from the streets have reduced the pressure on Iraqi women to cover their heads with a "hijab," or head scarf.


http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7168860&page=1

[tclambert]

9. Saudi clerics want women banned from TV, media, planet

You left the last word out.

[friedgreentomatoes]

86. No.

That would leave them no human being to rape, berate and torture.

[bluestateguy]

11. I really wish we had launched air strikes on Saudi Arabia after 9/11

but Noooooooooooooo, can't do that.

[saigon68]

21. No half of Bush's family friends would die

[Prometheus Bound]

27. No, you can't. You're not monsters after all. Are you?

[No Elephants]

47. Bombing Afghanistad and invaiding Iraq was less monstrous than bombing the country from

which every single terrorist on those flights came?

IMo, we were not justified in stiking any sovereign nation for the acts of those 21 criminals and their masterminds. However, I cannot say that bombing Afghanistan in retaliation for 9/11 was moral, but bombing Saudi Arabia would have been monstrous.

[Prometheus Bound]

62. Including the seven or nine 911 "terrorists" who are still alive?

And they weren't all from Saudi.

Atta was Egyptian, Marwan al-Shehhi was from UAE. The nationality of some of the others was unclear I think.

[Crowman1979]

29. Hell, I wish the Ottoman Empire was still in control of the arabian peninsula.

[No Elephants]

45. After all they've done for the entire Bush family and all the Bush family hopes to get from them in

the future? No, of course we were not going to launch air strikes after 9/11.

Among many other things, such stikes may have interfered with the airlift of Bin Ladins from the U.S. to Saudi Arabia that Dummya arranged for on 9/12, while I was stuck in Houston for an extra week, thinking no planes were in the air.

[LeftishBrit]

55. Yes, that would have cured the problem of religious extremism there, wouldn't it?

Just like it did in Iraq!

:sarcasm:, if needed.

[sam sarrha]

12. cause they want to see more little boys..??

[No Elephants]

48. If it was good enough for Elizabethean England....

[sam sarrha]

13. Damn it.!! i was all set to see the Wet Burka contest on Satellite TV Friday

[No Elephants]

49. Saudis don't wear burkas and a wet head covering leads only to bad hair days.

[MrSlayer]

14. These people are insane.

Flat out, batshit insane. The fact that we treat with them in any civilized way is obscene.

[mitchum]

16. Goat herding barbarians who got lucky

[slackmaster]

33. Think of what will happen to the Saudis et al if alternative energy makes oil less valuable

:D

[Deja Q]

18. Let me guess: They watched too much FOX "News" where the women anchors all dress like hookers?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzz/The_Anchorwomen_of_Fox_News

[mackdaddy]

30. An Interview on Fox "News" is like the interview scene in "Basic instinct" or

or Brittany getting out of a car..

I think this is why desks have "modesty panels" in the front.

[No Elephants]

52. Didn't they have them when nearly everyone at a desk was male, though/

[IndianaGreen]

22. What sort of women gave birth to boys that grew up to hate women

They should all have been strangled with the umbilical chord.

[Matilda]

24. Don't blame the women.

They're actually well-educated, separately of course, but they need permission from a male family member in order to
work, and must be segregated in the workplace. I always figured that educating women would make a huge difference
to the way they raised their sons, but in Saudi Arabia it doesn't seem to work out that way.

The real problem is the Wahhabi sect of Islam that predominates - a great example of a 12th-century mindset.

[XemaSab]

50. I would guess that they have the "flowerpot" or "coke machine" view of mothers

Children belong to the dad, and the mom is just incidental to the whole process.

[Matilda]

57. No doubt - the women are just the vessels used to bring forth the sons.

And the daughters will just go from being their father's property to being the husband's property in time.

The Saudis are just one step advanced from the Taliban in that they at least educate their daughters, but you wonder
what the point of it is in the end, as they have little chance of ever using it.

[No Elephants]

46. Riiiiiight,, it's all the fault of the women.

[IndianaGreen]

59. It was women that scuttled the Equal Rights Amendment in this country

They were frightened by the likes of Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum that if ERA passed their husbands would abandon them.

Think that all African-Americans were for desegregation? Wrong! A significant number of the older generation were opposed to the freedom riders because they feared they would trigger violence that would ultimate target them.

Just who do you think helps enforce the crazy sharia laws in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Afghanistan?

If these women started to refuse to have male babies, it would bring choke the life out of misogynist religions.

[No Elephants]

60. Baloney. It was the women of this country who fought for the ERA. It was the religious right and

the neocons who scuttled it. Phyllis Schafly is in that category, even though she is a woman.

Blaming women for defeat of the ERA or for Islam makes you sound exactly like the clerics who blame a women for enticing males to rape her.

As far as your suggestion that women should strangle their male babies, good Lord.

[winyanstaz]

23. I have a much better idea to solve this problem and I am sure God would approve

Since it is the males in this culture that are having the naughty thoughts..it only makes sense to keep them inside while blindfolded and locked up with no tv or radios so they cannot see or hear a woman.
Since women were so loved by Allah as to be trusted to be the bearers of life and to give birth to both women and men, (something you will notice that men cannot do), they should be the ones deciding things. After all, Allah trusted her and not the male with the unborn which is the future of the people.
With such deep love shown by Allah to women, they should be able to have a say so about their own bodies and not men whom Allah did not trust to be the bearers of life.
We can already see the terrible results of men choosing for women and what little regard they have for the children that were untrusted to us by Allah, so this letting men continue on in this evil way must end.
It then logically and spiritually follows then that all women should be allowed to leave any man that wont keep his blindfold on and stay in the house like a good religious man should instead of going out looking at women and committing sins. If they would just stay home none of this sinful thinking would happen.
If two or more women see a man without his blindfold on and out in public sinning by looking at women, they must bring him before the people to be stoned.
Since men cannot contain themselves while out in public if they see a female, they need to stay inside, keep their blindfolds on and while they are there..be sure to have something good to eat waiting for when your wife gets home from work. And by the way. while your doing all the housework so you can keep busy and not think sinful thoughts about women..remember to wash those brown streaks out of your shorts too. That's just disgusting.:P

Click here to go back to the main forums.

[Ecumenist]

31. Rotflmbao!!

Welcome to DU, Winyanstaz!! Right glad to meetcha and look forward to more of your witty and thought provoking posts. :hi:

[winyanstaz]

84. ty for the warm welcome

I shall do my best ;)

[Coventina]

34. I would be fine with having my taxes double if it meant we

could stop sucking the teat of these guys and move to alternative energy.

Oh wait, I guess that would be "the penis" of these guys. I'm sure they don't like to think of the fact that they have nipples like dirty, filthy women. And nobody give me that crap about how their attitude really honors women. Nobody with two brain cells to rub together believes that.

[SOS]

36. Let's use the Bush invasion checklist

1. Brutal dictatorship? Check!
2. Grotesque oppression of women? Check!
3. Secret nuclear bomb program? Check!
4. Kill their own people? Check!

Time for some shock 'n awe!

(But only if the royal family cancels American oil contracts. Otherwise they're our best pals.)

[ohio2007]

42. Juan Cole wants readers to reconsider what they think they know about Saudi Arabia.

Morning Edition, March 23, 2009 · Juan Cole, author of Engaging the Muslim World, wants readers to reconsider what they think they know about countries like Saudi Arabia.

It's widely known that most of the Sept. 11 hijackers were Saudis. Cole, a professor of Middle East history at the University of Michigan, says some people abuse that fact to fuel suspicion of the Saudi government, or of the Saudi strain of Islam known as Wahhabism.

Cole talks with Steve Inskeep about the new book.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102229790&ft=1&f=1012

audio link

[No Elephants]

53. And I want Juan Cole to reconsider his career path.

[fujiyama]

63. Screw Wahabism

It's a scourge to the planet and we'd all be better off if it were eliminated.

[JCMach1]

67. There are also many Wahabis who would think this guy is nuts...

A good general rule also applies with the 'book by the cover thing'

I know a number of Wahabis who are peaceful and devoted religious people who recognize stupid tribal anti-woman ideas for what they are... anyway, just saying.

The nuts will be with us always... whatever the religious brand!

[Posteritatis]

72. +1 (nt)

[JCMach1]

66. Headline should read: Fundamentalist Idiot Calls for Something Stupid

Of course, that generic headline would fit a lot of shite the religious nutjobs do...

[Marrah_G]

68. I really despise these men and those who keep them in power.

[Djinn]

69. you must be wrong

I'm pretty sure they would have been liberated by the US by now if this were true, very big on freedom is the 'ol USA (sarcasm off)

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. Maybe they've never forgiven the TV presenter who showed the domestic violence to the world

A TV presenter who says she was beaten by her husband has allowed newspapers to show pictures of her swollen face to highlight domestic abuse.

Rania al-Baz said her husband, Mohammed al-Fallatta, beat her so hard earlier this week that he broke her nose and fractured her face in 13 places.

She is recovering in hospital. Police are looking for Mr Fallatta, an unemployed singer.

Reuters news agency says he faces charges of attempted murder.

The response to her decision to go public was momentous. Columnists in the English-language Arab News called Baz "a ground-breaker", and her decision "a sensation in this private society". A princess in the Saudi royal family paid her medical bills. But alongside the messages of support were mutterings that a woman shouldn't have been working in television, and perhaps should not have been surprised. Some papers expressed astonishment that "a woman should betray her husband". "There was only a little direct criticism of what I did, but still no one wanted to discuss the issue. No one wanted to open the Pandora's box. As with everything else in Saudi society, people do not want to discuss things openly; it is all behind closed doors."

Fallatta, who had gone into hiding, eventually gave himself up. With an initial charge of attempted murder reduced to grievous assault, he was sentenced to 300 lashes and six months in jail. At first, he refused to sue for divorce (it is almost unheard of for a woman to divorce a man in Saudi Arabia) calling Baz "an unfit mother", but a court ordered him to do so. As part of the settlement, his prison sentence was halved after Baz publicly pardoned him and waived a compensation suit. The pardon, she now confirms, "was only in order to secure custody of the children" - a very rare achievement for a divorced woman in Saudi Arabia.
...
In May, thanks largely to Baz's stand, the first ever research study on domestic violence in Saudi Arabia was completed at King Saud University in Riyadh, uncovering a terrifying culture of abused women, invariably silent, 90% of whom had seen their own mothers similarly abused. "(Rania) has become iconic," says her lawyer Omar al-Khouli, who works with the local branch of the National Committee for Human Rights. "Hers was the first case the committee handled, and now more and more women are demanding their rights after her case - not just over domestic violence, but the whole system of discrimination in our society".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/oct/05/broadcasting.saudiarabia

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

80. You know, as a guy who's been jokingly labeled by his wife as being devoid of emotion,

because it's very herd for me to cry or display certain emotions. I have to say that reading this story while looking at her photo actually made my eyes watery and I chocked up big time.

As much shit as I've seen in my life it is hard for me to even comprehend what kind of a fucking psychopath would do something like that.

[fascisthunter]

81. my she is beautiful

what kind of monster could do such a thing to someone just because of their gender?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

82. What's even more fucked up is how common this is all over the world but for the most part we don't

notice because not every single case will get this exposure. Not to mention how the authorities will condone this type of crime and even cover it up.

[fascisthunter]

83. You Know it... when there are cases like this being exposed

there are many many more that don't.... sad

[MrsBrady]

85. Saudi clerics

can kiss my female ass.

Sick f***ers who allow their wives and daughters and sisters to be treated this way.