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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:33 PM
Original message
Judge Must Release Woman Sentenced to Jail for Being Poor, ACLU Says in Court Papers
Source: ACLU

Judge Must Release Woman Sentenced to Jail for Being Poor, ACLU Says in Court Papers
IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
March 30, 2009

DETROIT – The American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan asked for an emergency hearing today on behalf of an Escanaba woman sentenced to 30 days in jail because she is too poor to reimburse the court for her son’s stay in a juvenile detention facility.

“Like many people in these desperate economic times, Ms. Nowlin was laid off from work, lost her home and is destitute,” said Michael J. Steinberg, ACLU of Michigan Legal Director. “Jailing her because of her poverty is not only unconstitutional, it’s unconscionable and a shameful waste of resources. It is not a crime to be poor in this country and the government must stop resurrecting debtor’s prisons from the dustbin of history.”

In December 2008, Ms. Nowlin’s 16-year-old son was sentenced to the Bay Pines Center and Ms. Nowlin was ordered to pay $104 per month for his lodging. At the time of this order, Ms. Nowlin was homeless and working part-time with a friend after being laid off from her job. She told the court that she was unable to pay the ordered amount, however the judge found her in contempt for failing to pay. In addition, Ms. Nowlin’s requests for a court appointed attorney were denied.

Since March 3, 2009, Ms. Nowlin has been serving her sentence at the Delta County Jail. On March 6, 2009, she was released for one day to work. Once released she picked up her $178.53 check from work thinking that she now could pay the $104.00 to get out of jail. However, upon her return to jail that evening, the sheriff forced her to sign over her check to the jail to cover $120.00 for “room and board.” She was also charged $22 for a drug test and the booking fee.

Read more: http://aclumich.org/issues/due-process/2009-03/1353
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. don't miss the last paragraph.
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roughsatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. I hate the overuse of "Kafkaesque," but that is Kafkaesque. NT
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. No, you're absolutely right. Straight out of "The Trial"
See under "Damned if I do, damned if I don't"
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. This sort of deal really is Kafkaesque
Amerika indeed.
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rcrush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Request for Court appointed attorney were denied?
What the hell for? Since when can they deny you a lawyer? I think we will see more stories like this in the future as things get worse.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. They can't deny you a lawyer but the judge can find that you don't
qualify for a free one.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. That's not what this FindLaw article says.
http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/constitution/amendment06/10.html

"no person may be sentenced to jail who was convicted in the absence of counsel, unless he validly waived his right"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I think in practice what happens is, you're found to be refusing counsel
by not hiring one when the judge finds that you can afford one. :shrug:
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
53. But how could any judge say this homeless woman could afford one?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. I don't know, pnwmom. It's wrong, however he did it. n/t
.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. she wasn't convicted, or even charged
she was found in contempt for her failure to pay the money she DID NOT HAVE. the judge is the contemptible one.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
77. Good point.
I guess there is a strange loophole that someone sentenced to jail by a judge who finds "contempt" doesn't have to be given an attorney.

I wonder if the Supreme Court ever addressed if that loophole is constitutional.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #29
96. in practice it is only for things you can go to jail for for more than a month, I think
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. According to FindLaw, we have the right to an attorney for any jailable offense
"no person may be sentenced to jail who was convicted in the absence of counsel, unless he validly waived his right"

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/constitution/amendment06/10.html

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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. She waived her right
when she didn't hire counsel.

The fact that she couldn't afford it is irrelevant -- if the judge finds she can (which he apparently did).
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Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #45
87. and that is ridiculous
how can a person afford an attorney if they have lost everything, are homeless and do not have a job?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
101. In some states, the state is only required to provide a lawyer in felony
cases. Misdemeanors, such as this, don't qualify. Meaning, of course, you can be jailed for up to a year without having a lawyer assigned to you.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Slavery by other means.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
85. Exactly
And once they have you, you can never pay off the debt and buy back your freedom, as is shown by the fees they levied against her for the cost of incarcerating her.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh, great we have debtor prisons now?
A new form of torture for the poor.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yes, right after the Capitalists overthrew our Democracy. They made it a crime to be poor.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Always have had -
we're just not usually as blatant about it - they usually get incarcerated on other charges.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. Good point.n/t
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you for posting. n/t
Edited on Mon Mar-30-09 12:54 PM by truedelphi
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Is this an elected or an appointed judge?
If elected, I'd want to run another candidate against him in the next election. If appointed, I'd gladly sign an impeachment petition.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
108.  Delta County Probate Court Judge Robert Goebel
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Get your guns! It's time for Shay's Rebellion Part II.
As far I'm concerned. If I have to pay court costs. The judge and the court now works for me. I will not allow a prosecutor to present a case against me in MY court. The judge will find me innocent in MY court or I shall fire that judge, drag them off the bench, and out of MY court if need be.
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Jkid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is disgusting.
We already pay for prisons and correction services, taxpayers should have to pay twice for being sent to a jail or prison.

K&R for this outrage.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Is this the ReSMUG-Engler appointed Robert E. Goebel, Jr.?
They carefully resist putting the judge's name in the text. The only judge noted is Goebel on the pdf picture of the brief.

Appointed 2002 by that previous governor Engler-R who reduced taxes FOR THE GOVERNOR FOLLOWING HIM to handle, while he spent us into our first deficit in decades, and he was the one who was in charge during the high days of the Clinton economy. Calling him putrid scum makes me feel empathy for putrid scum. That Engler.

Whatever judge did this needs to step down without hesitation.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
109. yes. Delta County Probate Court Judge Robert Goebel
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. but it IS a crime to be poor in America... which is why they enslave you into the military service..
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
82. You've got to be kidding.
Both my husband and I served in the military and neither of us did so because we were "poor".
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. It is over things like this that people should be calling for revolution
God damn the people responsible.

May they die screaming.

May they be buried in nuclear waste.

May their names be cursed by every human that ever lives.
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biopowertoday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. you are right. Its almost unbelieveable to see stuff like this
happening in the usa. I sure am glad the aclu is looking after her. my next donation goes to the aclu.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. We live in a police state.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I have been saying that since I got DARE in grade school
in the eighties. My dad taught me that the cops asking me to rat on my parents for their own good was something to expect in Russia, not the USA.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. Debtor's prisons are back. Once you go in, you never get out.
Thank you government. You are doing a fine job.

A heck of job actually.

:sarcasm:
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. This makes me want to scream.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. Part of the trend of jailing non criminals to fill up all the jail cells they built for profit.
Edited on Mon Mar-30-09 02:21 PM by McCamy Taylor
Just like the juveniles that were sent to jail so the judge could get kickbacks. This one should be on Countdown.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. I wonder how the sheriff forced her to sign over the check.
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christx30 Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #20
84. Amazing what you can do
if you have a gun and you are with someone that is completely helpless.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wow. Grossly unconstitutional.
Are we going back to indentured servitude and debtor's prisons?
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JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. I hope this woman can sue the Judge, and the jailers and
receive a large settlement for this. Not only was she denied liberty, she was publicly humiliated, her character was slandered, and she suffered all sorts of psychological damage for having been jailed for no legal reason.

She ought to get about a million before this is all over, IMO. That would be about the right amount for the judge and the state to pay her, half a million each. If the judge can't pay, maybe he should visit the jail for a few days.... LOL
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Some ACLU lawyers must be looking into that right now.
This could become a precedent-setting case if there's enough outrage.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. and she should sue the judge personally for it all , whatever ass
ets he has.
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TheEuclideanOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
52. Thanks for making that point
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Is nobody to be held accountable for this? It is wrong on so many levels. I won't even waste the time listing all of the points in this story that seem either illegal, unconstitutional or both. The Sherriff should have a price to pay.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
tx, kpete.
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downindixie Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Its the same thing with women and men
who can't pay their child support because they have lost their jobs.
When I was a deputy sheriff I had to escort an old black man to court for failure to pay child support.This old man didn't have an education and could hardly walk due to damage done by arthritis.His only job was cutting grass and yard work,but this was winter time.I felt so bad for this man that I cried.The judge just put him back in jail.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. That's disgusting.
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. god help us all!!! this is just ridiculous!!
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is so sick on many levels it's not even funny
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. OMG
What is this country coming to? We are surely slowly drifting towards becoming one of the worst in the world.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. Wonder if this guy is a Right Winger....
because he just broke umpteen Biblical mandates. We are required-mandated even to take care of widows and orphans and this woman qualifies. Shame on those that would take this poor woman's money and then take away her liberty and force her into economic slavery. This needs lots of publicity and this womman needs some blessings and the judge needs to be embarassed and shamed.
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Smith_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. America is waging a war against its own lower class. nt
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
36. Since when are people CHARGED for detention?
That seems to be an extra-judicial punishment - grounds for redress as a "cruel and unusual punishment".
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. You must be from Canada or something.
In America you are billed for being arrested, for calling the fire department, for falling down and not being able to get up.

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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
54. It reminds me of the Chinese charging the families of executed prisoners
for the cost of the bullet used to execute them.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
37. the police state
this story makes me want to cry.
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Dollface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. The ACLU, doing God's work cause he is too busy
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #40
63. that's a new one on me
I'll have to keep it in mind. It describes this story, and what the ACLU does, perfectly.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
71. It's shit like this that proves that there is no God.
Or if he does exist he is a sadistic asshole who does not deserve my worshiping of him.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. Indeed.
NT!

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Dollface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. I think it was Jon Stewart who pointed out that if there is a God, he is kind of a dick.
Or maybe it was Bill Maher. Personally I would go with indifferent.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #80
107. Personally I think "God" has been anthropomorphized into ridiculousness.
Edited on Mon Apr-06-09 04:33 AM by Political Heretic
I'm not saying anyone should believe anything... but its way easier for me to believe in a sort of "world spirit" that is richer and healthier as we take care of each other and the earth, and sicker and weaker as we destroy the earth and each other...

In that case, "God" would be yet another victim of our violence, not the cause nor indifferent (maybe indifferent, in the sense that even the idea of a "feeling" "god" being is pretty projectionary (new word woo!)

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #71
106. Or, "he's" not omnipotent, in which case, should "he" even be "worshiped..."
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
41. It's like a painful Charles Dickens novel brought to life
It leaves me beyond angry and heartbroken knowing these cold and heartless bastards have any power in my state.

What else is out there?

Judges in cahoots with jailers, raking in millions jailing children in Pennsylvania.

Sheriff Arpiao in Arizona arresting a man who owed $0.40 (forty cents) on a $160.00 fine he paid a month earlier.

These insane loons are abusing their powers, and must be stopped.

Who else is out there abusing their power?


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FunMe Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
46. And the PIG rove is still not in jail
Why?

Why the injustice?
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
47. OK, here's the deal...
I was going to explain that the judge could have found she could pay,
and was just refusing, which would be contempt... not that a little
contempt is such a bad thing...

but then I thought... WTF... I'm not going to try and justify something
as sick and twisted as this. I don't know the ins and outs, but I'm siding with
the ACLU sight unseen. F* the judge. He drew the stinking end of the stick this time.
Get him off the bench!
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
49. How did this ever become "law"...how did this guy ever become a judge?
Edited on Mon Mar-30-09 05:59 PM by rasputin1952
I think there should be redress for the woman and everyone else involved in this travesty of "justice".

This is what happens when we do not watch the courts and keep them in check, as well as legislation that enables such atrocities. This judge should be sued for $5 million, and if the case goes through, if he can pay it, the question should be, "where did a judge get $5 million?", if he can't pay it, he should go to jail. Hell, he should go to jail anyway, just on principal...:grr:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
50. wrong spot- delete
Edited on Mon Mar-30-09 06:12 PM by depakid
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
55. Poor old Charlie he will ride forever 'neath the streets of
<fill in the blank>.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
56. sounds like the court had a case of "contempt"
:thumbsdown:
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. There's that many Republicans in Detroit??
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. This is in Escanaba. It is 400+ miles north in the UP.
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Yes, and Escanaba......
is probably mostly rightwing Repukes who hate the ACLU. Just saying.
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Richd506 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
58. This is disgusting
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
59. Fucking scum, thank God for the ACLU, donate if you can folks!
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
60. Homeless in Escanaba in December where the temps are -40 below? The judge should face Charges of
attempted murder.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
64. Wow. There's something just so wrong with jailing someone for that.
Reminds me of the song:

You load 16 tons
Waddya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go....
I owe my soul to the company sto.......


My mom explained to me that the mines were a Catch-22 in the old days. The co. hires the miners, pays them pennies, then on top of that requires them to buy their goods from the "company sto...." at high prices. So the workers go into debt, and they're in servitude until all their debts are paid off. Which can never happen.

Sometimes you just can't win for losin'. How do earn income if you're in jail? They let her out for a day...but she's not free to look for work on the other days.

Man, oh man.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #64
100. Technically they didn't 'require' shopping at the comapny store...
That would have been illegal. The problem is that workers were paid so little, that the comapany store was the only place they could get staples on account (called credit these days). It simply took too much time to go elsewhere as most mine patches were somewhat remote and the company store was the only one for miles.

-Hoot
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
65. I really think we should show the judge
a little love through email.

Is the judges name Goebel?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
67. There is no fucking way this travesty of all that is good and right is constitutional.
:grr:
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. You are correct.
Williams v. Illinois, 399 U.S. 235 (1970)
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Thank you for confirming my suspicions.
This "judge" deserves to be tarred, feathered, and removed from office.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Yes.
Or something like that!
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
68. Those S O Bs!
I worked for lawyers representing indigent defendents who 'lived' in the Cook County Jail. My first boss was the greatest, as you'll see below. Thereafter, I decided to go to law school:

The Supreme Court decided:

Williams v. Illinois, 399 U.S. 235 (1970)



Syllabus

Appellant was given the maximum sentence for petty theft under Illinois law of one year' imprisonment and a $500 fine, plus $5 in court costs. The judgment, as permitted by statute, provided that, if, when the one-year sentence expired, he did not pay the monetary obligation, he had to remain in jail to work them off at the rate of $5 a day. While in jail, appellant, alleging indigency, unsuccessfully petitioned the sentencing judge to vacate that portion of the order confining him to jail after the sentence expired, because of nonpayment of the fine and cost. The Illinois Supreme Court rejected appellant's claim that the State statutory provision constituted discriminatory treatment against those unable to pay a fine and court costs, and affirmed the lower court's dismissal of appellant's petition, holding that "there is no denial of equal protection of the law when an indigent defendant is imprisoned to satisfy payment of the fine."

Held: Though a State has considerable latitude in fixing the punishment for state crime, and may impose alternative sanction, it may not, under the Equal Protection Clause, subject a certain class of convicted defendants to a period of Imprisonment beyond the statutory maximum solely by reason of their indigency. Pp. 399 U. S. 239-245.

41 Ill.2d 511, 244 N.E.2d 197, vacated and remanded.

Page 399 U. S. 236


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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. Fantastic!!!
:toast:
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Thanks.
It was a while ago, and not exactly on point, but I'm still delighted to have played some role and very upset that Michigan did what it did.
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publicatlarge Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
70. love you guys...
Thank you for the sanity. Really needed this today.
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dothemath Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
74. Miranda ??????????
Doesn't Miranda include a statement about 'you are entitled to an attorney and if you cannot afford one, the court will provide one'?

Guess I have been watching too much TV.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #74
93. When arrested for criminal activity.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
79. I knew the debtors' prison shit was going to rear its ugly head at some point.
Shameful motherfuckers! That fucking Judge needs to see the inside of a jail, his own private one!
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
81. WTF???
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mackerel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Did the woman have other children?
I wonder why the media doesn't cover these kind of stories?
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Kalyan Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
86. why the outrage, i see nothing wrong!
seriously folks - poor people don't have a right to live in America. if they want to live, ask them to move to Africa or Bangladesh. America is reserved for overpaid bankers, hedge fund managers and financial geeks.

:sarcasm: alert
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #86
103. Except for undocumented workers, of course
because the Ruling Elite need a downtrodden underclass who are too frightened to challenge the status quo (and risk being deported) to serve as cheap menial labor, whilst they live the life of pampered royalty.
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Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
88. Wanna bet
that judges do not charge ´lodging´ to folks like Madoff?
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
89. the criminalization of poverty, I learned about at a Mills College Conference in Oakland a while
ago on the same subject.  
It was devastating and enlightening.

I guess I am now a bit out of synch with others, 
but the foresight, having gone to these events 
back when people were first being affected, 
was not only enlightening, 
but today armors. 

While grazing at truths 
and fuddling with conundrums 
Good for my brain,
I wait for more clients. 

Okay for now, 
Hopeful for word of mouth 
Spreading news of services
My community finds me.  

ha ku ka chu
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
90. I'm pretty sure debtors prisons are expressly forbidden in this country.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. Yes.
Edited on Tue Mar-31-09 04:59 AM by elleng
'Though a State has considerable latitude in fixing the punishment for state crime, and may impose alternative sanction, it may not, under the Equal Protection Clause, subject a certain class of convicted defendants to a period of Imprisonment beyond the statutory maximum solely by reason of their indigency.' Pp. 399 U. S. 239-245.

MR. CHIEF JUSTICE BURGER delivered the opinion of the Court.

I thought you'd be interested in this:

'The custom of imprisoning a convicted defendant for nonpayment of fines date back to medieval England, and has long been practiced in this country. At the present time, almost all States and the Federal Government have statutes authorizing incarceration under such circumstances. Most States permit imprisonment beyond the maximum term allowed by law, and, in some, there is no limit on the length of time one may serve for nonpayment. While neither the antiquity of a practice nor the fact of steadfast legislative and judicial adherence to it through the centuries insulates it from constitutional attack, these factors should be weighed in

Page 399 U. S. 240

he balance. Indeed, in prior cases, this Court seems to have tacitly approved incarceration to "work-off" unpaid fines. See Hill v. Wampler, 298 U. S. 460 (1936); Ex parte Jackson, 96 U. S. 727 (1878).

The need to be open to reassessment of ancient practices other than those explicitly mandated by the Constitution is illustrated by the present case, since the greatly increased use of fines as a criminal sanction has made nonpayment a major cause of incarceration in this country. Default imprisonment has traditionally been justified on the ground that it is a coercive device to ensure obedience to the judgment of the court. Thus, commitment for failure to pay has not been viewed as a part of the punishment or as an increase in the penalty; rather, it has been viewed as a means of enabling the court to enforce collection of money that a convicted defendant was obligated by the sentence to pay. The additional imprisonment, it has been said, may always be avoided by payment of the fine.

We conclude that, when the aggregate imprisonment exceeds the maximum period fixed by the statute, and

Page 399 U. S. 241

results directly from an involuntary nonpayment of a fine or court costs we are confronted with an impermissible discrimination that rests on ability to pay, and, accordingly, we vacate the judgment below.'

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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
91. someone should committ B & E at the fine judges
no doubt comfy residence, fence his possessions and pay the fines.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
94. K&R
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
95. Holy shit!
Where were the brains of this judge?

And reading the article, another person the ACLU defended was surviving on $262 per month for his disability. How do people make it? I thought I had it bad, but dang.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
97. K&R
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
98. amazing
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
99. debtors’ prisons
WTF has become of us.
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
102. The Judge
The Judge who put her in jail for inability to pay something she could not, and decided a woman with almost no money could afford a lawyer should be dis-barred. What he ruled was creation of a debtor-prisoner. He broke the law of the land, The Constitution. He should subsequently be tried criminially, in a Federal Court, and be made to pay all of her 'fees' and any hardships she encountered due to his shenanigans. He should also be the recipent of a 'friendly' letter writing campaign by those unappy that the above may not happen. His name should be published. His friends, family & neighbors should know they've this kind of Hitler in their midst. I wonder if he's Republican...he must be.
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JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. I'm curious why the name of the judge is not available to us.
The linked article fails to mention the judge's name!!!

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #104
110.  Delta County Probate Court Judge Robert Goebel
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
105. Yes . . . for long time they've been making "homelessness" a crime . . . !!!
Otherwise, it would look like Reagan was the criminal --- !!!
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