First public gay high school to open in NYC

[Nambe]

NEW YORK (AP)

The Harvey Milk High School will enroll about 100 students and open in a newly renovated building in the fall. It is named after San Francisco's first openly gay city supervisor, who was assassinated in 1978.

"I think everybody feels that it's a good idea because some of the kids who are gays and lesbians have been constantly harassed and beaten in other schools," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Monday. "It lets them get an education without having to worry." ---

State Conservative Party Chairman Mike Long criticized the creation of the school.

"Is there a different way to teach homosexuals? Is there gay math? This is wrong," Long said. "There's no reason these children should be treated separately." ---

Ride Don’t Drive It’s Global Cool

[Occulus]

1. Oh really?

So there's no such thing as, oh, say, CHRISTIAN MATH either, right???

By his logic, Christian schools should be shut down, too.

[stopthegop]

2. except Christian schools are private...

and make no secret about teaching different things and with a different slant than public schools

[Creamed Corn]

39. Except religious schools aren't government funded.

Though they are tax-exempt.

[slackmaster]

3. Let's run away from the problem instead of fixing it

This gives the bad kids who harass and beat gay and lesbian students exactly what they want. What a sad day for public education!

[WestPacSailor]

5. Let's lock 'em all away from the "normal" folks

I'm sure that this seemed a good idea to someone, but I'm not sure who. Segregation is ok if it segregates those we don't like from the rest of the 'normal' population??? I don't think so.

[w4rma]

4. IMHO, this is dumb. Is segregation en vogue, now? (n/t)

[Demobrat]

6. This is bad.

By this logic, we should have separate schools for everybody. Getting picked on because you're too poor to dress "right"? Let's start another school for poor kids. Getting picked on because you're the wrong color? Let's start another school for each race. Getting picked on because you're small and weak? Let's start a new school for the vertically challenged. I guess it's easier than actually dealing with bullying, but it just rubs me the wrong way.

[davidinalameda]

7. obviously none of the critics here have ever been threatened

for being gay

or have been physically assaulted by your classmates and had the school administration look the other way or blame it on you being "too out" or just tell you to tone it down

there is a reason that gay and lesbian teenagers have some of the highest suicide rates among their age group and being abused by their peers at school is among the reasons

[raifield]

8. Okay, true, but...

...how is this a step towards fixing the problems you describe? It's not fixing the problem at all. It's not even a step in the right direction. Now the kids in the other school can snigger about the "queers across town".

Though, temporarily, this is a good thing, on second-thought. If it takes care of the kids that have been harassed and enables them to have a worry-free education, then that's good.

As you can tell, I'm split on this. :shrug:

[stopthegop]

9. don't doubt that...

but wouldn't it be better to stop mistreatment at the existing schools? If someone is assaulted it's a crime...and if someone is 'picked on' or hassled that can be dealt with also...

pulling a certain group into a seperate school doesn't seem likely to increase acceptance in either direction

[Terran]

13. Even if you stopped physical abuse,

the mental cruelty gay teenagers endure is impossible to curtail. Giving these kids a safe place to go to school is a great idea. Apparently none you people who are criticizing this know anything about how high the suicide rate is among gay teens. In my opinion, this school constitutes an emergency measure taken to put a stop to that.

[markses]

14. See my post below on some suicide studies

You are, of course, absolutely right, and the people here comparing it to overweight kids are living in LaLa Land...

[Terran]

17. Thanks! n/t

[snooper2]

10. and how many overweight kids..

Do you remember being picked on and abused during years of school? Should we have schools for all students over 160lb? How about schools for the so-called "dorks" in each class? They get picked on and abused and beat up waiting for the bus.

This is bullshit....private fine, public, hell no...

[davidinalameda]

15. how many of the fat kids have been threatened with death

I don't think that too many of the short and/or ugly kids have been told don't come back to school or you'll be killed


as someone who had deal with threats for a good chunk of my school career, I think that I might have a different perspective than some of those criticial of the school.

Gay and lesbian kids also have one of the highest drop-out rates of their age group.

If the kids learn and feel safe at this school, then it's worth it.

[snooper2]

18. I don't know about death threats..

But I remember one kid who was beaten about every day in his gym class and was changed to mine only after they put him in the hospital for two weeks from injuries.

Isolation is not the key...
There was a gay guy in the highschool I transferred to my sophmore year and I saw people give him shit, but at the same time there where those of us who would back him up.

[noiretextatique]

34. dr. phil and his son recently did a show on bullying

which featured the mother of a boy who committed suicide because of the constant bullying he was a victim of at school. his son is visiting schools, asking them to stop tolerating bullying. the woman who lost her son mentioned that neither the school, or the police would do anything about the kids who constantly harrassed her son.

as a society, we don't seem to take the cruelty of children towards each other very seriously...it seems to be viewed as something that is natural, if not inevitable. maybe it's because they most often acquire these attitudes from adults.

on dr. phil's show, he mentioned that bullying can only occur as long as people tolerate it.

[ColumbusGirl]

22. I was a fat kid...

in a class of 45 in a public school.

I was smacked, spit on, called names. I was made fun of by teachers. I was forced to attempt pull ups in front of my entire class as they laughed at me. When I went to the principal, he told me I should lose weight if I wanted to be accepted.

Teachers were also exceedingly unfair to me in grading. I was oucast by the entire community because I was the only fat kid.

I would have done anything to be in an environment where I could learn and be protected from some of that. These things scar me to this very day.

I HATE it that everyone always brings up fat people when it comes to situations like these.

I recall when an opposition group had commericals that said "What would Jesus drive" talking of SUV's....and on NPR I heard someone say..."Should we tell fat people...What would Jesus eat?"

Fat people are not your scapegoat. And until you've lived it you have NO idea.

On Edit: More ranting :)

[davidinalameda]

16. AND ANOTHER THING

how about kids who aren't out of the closet yet or are questioning their sexuality, do you have any idea what kind of a toll it takes on them to see their gay and lesbian peers tormented and abused?

[bleedingheart]

25. I understand where you are coming from but I am kind of

torn on this issue..

I am not gay but I was tormented by kids in my neighborhood because I was different... my mother was a widow who kept my brother and I on a short leash ... we had strict rules to live by and therefore we became "easy targets"..

I cried every day of school until I finally got to High School where the abuse finally stopped.

I had people spit chew in my hair.. break my glasses... steal my stuff, follow me home to beat me up and when I defended myself I got detention... In fact when my dad died there were kids that made fun of me for it.. they said he died because he had looked at me... it was amazingly cruel.
My mother's home got egged and my dog was shot and nearly killed by the kids in the neighborhood.
...and this was a middle class neighborhood...

What I wanted more than anything was to have those kids kicked out of school or punished...never did I want to attend a different school. In essence I never gave up because I wasn't going to let my entire life be spent hiding from people that didn't like me. I am the person I am today because of that. I will stand up to anyone and anything in order to see it through...but I realize that not all kids would be able to survive that.

My poor brother was chubby with glasses and while later he came out of the closet (he is gay) he wasn't beat up because of that... he was picked on for the same reason I was... we were raised to have manners and respect others.

The sad fact is that these kids are being segregated into a school and it is doubtful the harrassment will stop. They still have to live in the same neighborhoods and walk the streets with the other kids who are bullies..

[thom1102]

36. This is truly terrible,

And just disgusting that you would have to be subjected to this kind of reprehenisble behavior. But I have to ask, when you went home after a day of this horrible taunting, could you take solace in the fact that your mother, and brother were there in your corner? Could you confide in you mother, and your brother about what was going on, and be comforted by them?

I am not trying to trivialize, or marginalize your experience and pain, but imagine that when you came home after a day of taunting, and there was no one there you could confide in. Telling Mom and bro could cause them to disown you. They may throw you out and then you would have no one. But even if they didn't there is the overwhelming shame you would see in there eyes after you tell them the truth, and the incredible embarassment and shame you would feel at having the deepest darkest secret in your soul thrown open for the people who matter most to you.

There are real differences between what the GLBT youth endure, and what the average teen endures. Differences that have been studied for years and that solutions have been put into practice in small scale programs throughout the country. This is a great opportunity to put them to use, and pioneer new approaches to heloing these kids overcome some of these adversities.

[Demobrat]

30. I wasn't picked on for being gay, true.

I was picked on for being poor. The kids who did Columbine were picked on for being weird. To me it's the bullies who are the problem, not their victims. How about a special school for them? Then they could just pick on each other. Or we could just show zero tolerance for bullying, but that would take a real effort.

[ColumbusGirl]

35. They don't have school for bullies....

They save the Republican party for that.

Skull And Crossbones forever!:puke:

[Ripley]

38. Should there be separate male/female schools then?

I bet more highschool girls have been raped than gay kids have. How many girls are harassed and beaten up?

Segregation is wrong.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[markses]

12. Oh yah, just like being picked on for being small or ugly

http://www.jeramyt.org/gay/gaysuic.htm

Author, Year N GLB-youth reporting suicide attempts
non-GLB-youth reporting suicide attempts
Faulkner, 1998 3054 41.7% (represents only sexually-active youth) 28.6% (represents only sexually-active youth)
Fergusson, 1999 1007 32.1% 7.1%
Garofalo, 1998 4159 35.3% 9.9%
Remafedi, 1998 36,254 28.1% male, 20.5% female 4.2% male, 14.5% female
Schaffer, 1995 120 2.5% of the 120 youth were allegedly GLB 97.% of the 120 youth were allegedly non-GLB

:eyes:

I'm all for fixing the root of the problem. But if measures have to be taken to save lives, you do not discuss the water filtration when the house is burning down...

[Ratty]

19. I think it's a good idea

But what I like about this discussion is everyone is taking a reasoned view of it. There are thoughtful, though occasionally heated, arguments on both sides of the debate (I just had to pop over to a conservative board to take a look at the kinds of things being said. Viscious)

One of the most damaging things to a gay person's psyche is the need to keep a terrible, dark, self-loathing secret when we are young. It affects us later in life, affects our ability to be intimate. Gay-friendly education at a young age is vitally important. Yes, we want to get them when they're young (a statement just begging to be taken out of context by the shrill right, I know). I think this school would be a GREAT thing for gay youth. All question of fairness for everyone aside, or the idea that tolerance needs to be taught, this is a GREAT thing for the gay kids themselves.

[Heddi]

20. Can ANYONE attend this school?

Meaning, if I'm not gay, but I want to go to a separate school where the basic premise is 'no harassment'--let's say I'm the fat kid in school who got the shit kicked out of her every day from 2nd grade to 10th grade JUST because she was fat and poor (that was me, btw)---could I go to this school?

If the school is open to ANYONE looking for a harassment-free learning environment, then I say A-OKAY! Let the fat kids, the singletons, the wall-flowers and dorks go here too.

The school is opening because of the severe harassment gay and lesbian teenagers face in school. In HS the majority of my friends were gay and I saw the absolutely horrible treatment they received.

I do agree there is a need for a harassment-free, negativity-free place for kids to learn.

But there are other 'persecuted' groups in high-school---think of Columbine, and all the other kids who got disgruntled with the asshole jocks and cheerleaders adn their constant harassment and took it to the ULTIMATE Level.

I wonder how we would feel if a Public High School opened for kids who DID NOT WANT To go to school with gay/lesbian teenagers. They say that it affects THEIR learning---I know it wouldn't fly, but I wonder if someone is going to try this now just to 'counter'?

This is a great idea in some ways, I just hope that other kids who are harassed at school (who aren't gay) have the opportunity to attend the school as well.

[Ratty]

21. Personally I think

The real value of the school is an environment where kids can be themselves, see themselves in a positive light for once, not have to lie about who they are, make friends with whom they can share ALL of their innermost secrets, prepare themselves to be happy, proud, well-adjusted adults. The harrassment-free environment is just very nice ising on the cake.

[Heddi]

23. well if it's not open to everyone

then I see that as discriminatory.

If it wants to be a private school---FINE. But if it's a public school, then it has to be open to the public.

Admitting students ONLY because they're gay is like NOT admitting students ONLY because they're gay.

Allow this to be an open 'magnet' school for kids of ALL Stripes who don't want to be around the bullshit that is known as HIGH SCHOOL. I know---I wasn't gay but my god I was fat and I was poor--just one step up from being gay as far as the bullies were concerned.

Second grade through 10th grade, I was beaten up EVERY SINGLE DAY. On the bus, off the bus, in school, out of school. It didn't matter. I have scars to this day from the abuse that was hurled at me.

Think it's easy to learn when you hear squealing sounds everytime you have to walk to the front of the class for anything?

Easy to learn when people piss in your locker, and smear shit on your desk?

There are MANY tormented kids in this world---Allow this school to be for ALL of those kids--gay and straight---so they can collectively get away from the hostile environment that pervades high-schools around the fucking country.

It is a public school. They have to be open to anyone who wants to go. If they don't, that's discrimination unless they're private.

[noiretextatique]

33. i think the school is open to anyone

but i'm not sure. it's a collaborative effort between the NYC alternative school program and the hetrick-martion institute, a non-profit organization that has been doing work with glbt youth for 20+ years. as i understand it, the school board provided the funds to renovate the building in which the school is housed, but the school was already in existence...and at least partially funded by the institute.

i think what's sad is the need for this school. and of course, i do believe it goes beyond mere harrassment. the institute also does work with homeless glbt kids (like those kicked out by parents who don't accept them) as well as providing other services.

[cboy4]

24. It's good to see that the hypocritical

conservatives (Mike Long) are already weighing in on this. Let's see, it's okay to use public money for vouchers so kids can go to private Christian schools, yet it's wrong to use public money so gay kids can have a private school. Oh.

"dwickham" makes a lot of very good points about how difficult it is being gay....I would feel better if public money wasn't being used because I wouldn't like it if there was a NYC public school for "vicious haters." (those would be kids of republicans).

You know this gay school has got Robertson and Fallwell on the cusp of fatal heart attacks, and that's......:evilgrin:

edit: spelling

[bleedingheart]

26. they have schools for vicious haters...they are reform

schools and juvenile detention centers...which is where some of the big bullies belong.

[5thGenDemocrat]

31. Question: Will this school have extracurriculars?

Y'know -- debate, sports, any interaction with the other NYC schools?
If "no": Then this school is a ghetto. Used to shut gay students off from the rest of their peers.
If "yes": Then these students are outing themselves at 14 or so. Which may or may not be a good thing -- that's not for me to decide.
I sympathize with the poor kids who get beat up for whatever reason. I could fight pretty well and was hardly an outcast (though not one of the "Kool Kids") and I still got bounced off my share of lockers. I guess I'm just saying I don't know how good a thing this is in the long haul or, maybe more precisely, this will be both a good AND bad thing over the long haul.
John
If this school DOES have sports teams, I'll put their bumper sticker on the back of my car, though.

[sasquatch]

27. Good for them

Now they can get the hell beat out of them by there own pears and for good reasons. Like for being a pain in the ass(If you don't get sarcasm don't bother commenting)

[cboy4]

29. That's hilarious................NOT.

[Sapphocrat]

28. First relief, and then anger...

I teared up when I saw this. I would have done almost anything to have gone to a queer school. Perhaps, if I hadn't felt like utter filth compared to all those ultra-perfect, ultra-straight cheerleaders and jocks, I might have actually attended class once in a while.

Now comes the anger:

I am utterly appalled at the insensitivity in some of the responses I see in this thread. I'd like to see everyone's reaction after a lifetime of slurs, taunts, physical threats (oh, yes, boys and girls, it's not just gay teenage boys who get the shit kicked out of them), ostracization... none of which ends after high school. High school is only where it begins in earnest.

"Harvey Milk High School" -- how fitting, and yet some of you just gloss right over the significance of the name. I don't recall the last time I read about the increase in hate crimes against "overweight" people. I don't recall ever hearing about an "overweight" student being tied to a fence post and beaten to death in the middle of Wyoming. I don't recall many "overweight" couples being burned out of their homes because somebody didn't like their "lifestyle." (Does anyone need more examples?) Gee, ya think maybe equating obesity with homosexuality is the most ridiculous apples-to-oranges comparison I've heard all week?

As for discrimination:

The bleeding-heart liberal in me agrees that all public schools must be open to all children. However, the lesbian in me who has been denied all the privileges you have taken for granted (as "rights") all your life says this:

So what if, by some quirk of law, this school were only open to queer kids? YOU end all state-sanctioned discrimination against gay people in this country -- in housing, employment, adoption, immigration, and marriage -- and THEN you will have a basis upon which to cry "discrimination."

Until then, it's just so much more of the same damned double standard, in which it's perfectly okay to deny services to queers -- and the vast majority of straight folks don't raise an eyebrow until they get a taste of the same shit we've been forced to eat all our lives.

My apologies to the thinking heteros reading this. Believe me, I don't categorize all straights as blind and insensitive; most of you (especially on DU) do understand what I'm saying. It's only a small minority who appear desperate to maintain the status quo of "acceptable" discrimination.

P.S. Yes, I'm well aware that the state of New York is slightly ahead of the pack when it comes to equal rights for queers, but that is not my point -- and NY state only eight months ago finally expanded its antidiscrimination law, in housing and employment, to include sexual orientation, after letting legislation languish 30 years.

[davidinalameda]

32. locking--dupe

please continue here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=91465&mesg_id=91465&page=


thanks

dwickham

[undergroundpanther]

37. Sad

Why not just segregate the bullies from the other kids?

It's the bullies who choose to not quit harassing others,It's the bully who cannot conduct themselves around others.THEY are the problem not the different kids or hurt kids.Bullies target different,sensitive,creative,gentle kids with moral character to dominate them.
Our culture adores it's bullies that's why it won't get honest about the bully problem.It glamorizes domination in every example of sucess,it glorifies cruelty especially cruelty dressed up as humor.

Why not segregate the problem people(bullies) who routinely refuse to show self control in how they relate to others or refuse get along with others as a chosen way of relating,Seperate the bullies from those who demonstrate they can get along with different people without much strife.

It is a bully personality(conduct disoredered)people who cannot exist in a social environment without a target to abuse and blame.It is the bully who thrives on strife and power games.
People who aren't bullies have no need to dominate,manipulate,control,win at any cost or destroy others for"entertainment" or some other selfish reasons can get along fine together without bullies interfering with thier social relationships.


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