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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:46 PM
Original message
Economists See a Rebound in September
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 10:31 PM by Pirate Smile
Source: The Wall Street Journal

By PHIL IZZO

Economists in the latest Wall Street Journal forecasting survey expect the recession to end in September, though most say it won't be until the second half of 2010 that the economy recovers enough to bring down unemployment.

Gross domestic product was predicted to contract in the first and second quarters of this year by 5.0% and 1.8%, respectively, on a seasonally adjusted annualized rate. A return to growth -- a modest 0.4% -- isn't expected until the third quarter. In the fourth quarter of 2008, the most recent period for which data are available, the economy contracted 6.3%.

"The end of the decline isn't the beginning of the recovery," said David Resler of Nomura Securities Inc. "It's like a boxing match. Even if you win the fight, it's not going to feel as good when you get out of the ring as when you went in."

Indeed, economists' prospects for the labor market remain bleak. Just 12% of the economists expect the unemployment rate to fall some time this year. More than a third of respondents expect the jobless rate to peak in the first half of 2010, while about half don't see unemployment declining until the second half of 2010. By December of this year, the economists on average expect the unemployment rate to reach 9.5%, up from the 8.5% reported for March. They do see the rate of decline slowing, forecasting 2.6 million job losses in the next 12 months, compared with the 4.8 million jobs lost in the previous period.



Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123921340472201877.html



Washington Post article:

Signs of Revival In Retail, Banks
Recession May Be Loosening Its Grip, But Some See Worst Ahead for Workers


By Annys Shin and Renae Merle
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, April 10, 2009; Page A01

The ailing financial and retail sectors showed tentative signs of strength yesterday, an encouraging shift for an economy whose prospects are tied to their recovery.
A resurgence among consumers and banks is a necessary precursor to a turnaround in an economy that has been battered on nearly every front -- housing, exports, employment -- in recent months. New data yesterday offered at least some hope that the darkest days of the recession could be ending, even if the economy remains fragile.


-snip-
Financial markets surged on the news, partly because they have been braced for a dismal first-quarter earnings season. The Dow Jones industrial average jumped 3.14 percent to land at 8083. The Standard & Poor's 500-share index and the tech-heavy Nasdaq were up nearly 4 percent after steep losses earlier in the week.
For the fifth week in a row, stocks have ended in positive territory. In the month since the market reached a low in March, stocks have climbed more than 20 percent.

The recession remains severe, and economists stress the worst for U.S. workers is still to come. Americans are still claiming jobless benefits at record levels, with the number of people receiving unemployment insurance now approaching 6 million. The unemployment rate in March was 8.5 percent, and earlier this week, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas chief Richard W. Fisher said he thought it could surpass 10 percent by year's end.

-snip-
The decline in sales have been stabilizing, though, in part because lower energy costs have left people with more money to spend. Some retailers yesterday reported better-than-expected results and sounded more positive about the future than they have in months. Wholesale clubs such as Costco and BJ's turned in particularly strong results, with sales rising 4.6 percent in March excluding the impact of fuel. Even sales at those firms that missed analyst expectations could have ICSC chief economist Michael P. Niemira said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/09/AR2009040901727.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are these the same economists who said housing had bottomed last year?
Or that were predicting Dow 20,000 not that many years ago?

Those guys?
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm mystified...
I don't comprehend how a recovery can even BEGIN without jobs coming back. I don't get it...at all.

First, you have people with no jobs and people who are underemployed. That's one thing. Then, you've got
companies cutting salaries. These people are drastically reducing their spending habits. They're terrified,
possibly losing their homes and saving every nickel. Then, you've got the rest of us--most of whom are
very afraid of losing a job. This group has drastically reduced spending as well.

People need to get REAL evidence that it's ok out there--before they discontinue their saving behavior. That
means they need a job. They need a living wage. They need to see evidence of growth.

How can any growth in GDP happen if people aren't employed again or jobs aren't being created?

The positive Coffeecat wants to believe. The cynical Coffeecat believes that they're blowing sunshine
and roses at us again--that are not based on reality and defy basic economics.
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Alhena Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Economic stats matter more than people apparently
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Every Recovery Looks Like a Jobless Recovery at First
Inventory needs to fall, slack needs to be removed, and confidence needs to increase before hiring starts.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
One of my favorite quotes. I should look up who said it someday.
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Carl Sagan. nt
Except it was "theories" instead of "claims".
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I'm doubly pleased to learn that fact.
One being it was Carl Sagan and the second being I remembered it. :)

I had heard it several times as 'claims'... and considering where I probably read it, they didn't even want to give them the credibility of even being a potential 'theory'.

Thanks for knowing that. :)
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Yeah,
I am wondering what world these guys live in. It's certainly not the "real" world.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. PLEASE note that these economists never tell you "why?"
WHY is the economy going to rebound in September?

What will change between now and then to get things moving?

How will we recover without creating jobs?

PLEASE note that they never answer any of these questions. And then ask yourself the most important question:

WHY IS IT THAT THEY NEVER EVEN ADDRESS THAT QUESTION?
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I like the way you thin, PBD--
...and I also agree. I'm sitting here with a big 'WTF' over my head.

I'll answer the question--they don't tell us why or how--because it's a load of baloney. It feels as if
they put these vague, generalized, silver-lining stories out there---to lure us into believing that the
economy isn't collapsing.

Why! The economy can't be collapsing! The media just said things will recover late this year!

The media keeps pushing and pushing this theme--with no facts to support the assertion.

Another question to ask---What in the hell is really going on NOW--that they want our eye on some silver-lining
future? These sunshine predictions feel like an attempt to distort what is happening now. We see the country
hemorrhaging jobs. We see GDP declining, foreclosures rising and businesses failing.

It's as if they want us to look way, way into the future at the pretty mirage---and ignore the disaster
we're currently standing in.

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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Job growth by 2010 Q3? seems optimistic
We haven't even started going in that direction yet.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm not all that big on forecasts any more.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Based on what?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. If you believe that, I have some oceantfront property in New Mexico
that you can buy sight unseen. You can trust me, too.

(actually I do, but the ocean is a mile down through solid rock)

Seriously, I don't expect too much of anything to rebound until mid 2010, although I sincerely hope I'm wrong about that.

All the worst paper will be chugging its way through the system until then, all the fraud that was committed at the end of the bubble market in the summer of 2007.

After that, institutions will know what they've got left. Jobs won't recover until people start to spend again, and that will mean making sure the jobs we have left and any that are created stay here instead of being looted offshore.

That will take legislation which is impossible at this point.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. or those real jobs or government made jobs?
LOL. Just checking to see if they're still running with that Steal-ism. How can we get new jobs if the GOP doesn't even know what a job is?
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Economists 'see' all sorts of things, whenever.
.
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this_side_up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. If economy improves, it's because
people will eventually be forced to go shopping .... September...
back-to-school clothing & supplies.

Refrigerators (ours) and other appliances & cars will break.

Unemployment will continue to rise because the large majority of
new jobs will be in foreign countries = making stuff for Americans
to buy.

The corporations' CEOs & CFOs and shareholders win again!
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The Shape Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. The economy has already started to rebound
http://www.ftportfolios.com/Commentary/EconomicResearch/2009/3/25/this_is_not_a_dead_cat_bounce_

A lot of January and February numbers were up and much higher than expected...and this is before this stimulus money has started kicking in. The main cause of this recession was simply panic. Jobs will be the last thing to rebound.

Also, many banks got in trouble due to accounting rules (which were changed a few weeks ago). The cash flow was there for securities, such as mortgages, but no one was buying them...accounting rules stated you had to take a loss at fair market value which hurt a lot of banks.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Just sayin'. . . . .
Yeah, right.


A lot of January and February numbers were up and much higher than expected (and which numbers were those again? other than the unemployment numbers, that is)...and this is before this stimulus money has started kicking in. The main cause of this recession was simply panic (You don't think maybe it's the other way around? That the recession caused the panic? Maybe?). Jobs will be the last thing to rebound. (Well, I'm thinkin' maybe you got *something* right. . . .)

Also, many banks got in trouble due to accounting rules (which were originally changed to make things easier for them)(which were changed a few weeks ago (to make things even MORE easier for them)). The cash flow was there for securities, such as mortgages, but no one was buying them (which is why when no one is buying anything there isn't any cash flow, DUH) ...accounting rules stated you had to take a loss at fair market value which hurt a lot of banks.



Is it just me????


Well,

it's just


Tansy Gold
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The Shape Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Cash Flow
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 01:10 PM by The Shape
There was cash flow because most people were still paying their mortgages...DUH. However, people weren't buying, thus the market value fell.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
19. What is this "rebound" supposed to look like?
Will the majority of people who lost their jobs get their old jobs back?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. yay! we can all get jobs shining shoes and flipping burgers
cleaning the homes of the rich and famous as they laugh up their sleeves. they got our money, now they can hire us as servants. anyone know how to clean a spittoon?
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. IDIOTS!
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