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steven johnson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:33 PM
Original message
Man charged with murder, drunk driving in pitcher's death
Source: CNN

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The man police say was driving drunk when he ran a red light and struck a car, killing a Major League Baseball pitcher and two others has been charged with murder.

Andrew Thomas Gallo, 22, was charged with three counts of murder, driving under the influence and leaving the scene of a crime, the Orange County district attorney's office announced Friday.

Los Angeles Angels pitcher Nick Adenhart was among those killed in the crash in Fullerton, California, early Thursday morning. Adenhart was beginning his first full season in the majors and had pitched his fourth Major League game hours earlier.

Gallo, whose blood-alcohol level was three times the legal limit, according to police, faces up to life in prison if convicted on all charges.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/10/california.pitcher.killed/index.html
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Young dirtbag, thinking only of himself,
going 65 in a 35 zone, no license, drunk on his ass, kills 3 people and critically injures a fourth, then bails.

Yeah, I don't want this bastard out on the street while he can still get into a car.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. He'll be back
They don't hold them forever. After all he was drunk ya know. He didn't know what he was doing :sarcasm:
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Maybe Not --
He's looking at 25 to life for multiple homicides, even for Murder 2, with enhancements.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I hope so
I hope there are a lot of Angel's fans in jail too.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Can You Imagine What an OC Jury Will Do
This bastard should cop a plea and take his 25 to life. If he doesn't, an OC jury might just decide he deliberately got drunk, and then he's looking at Murder One.

He ain't seeing the light of day for a long time, no doubt.

And yes, if there are any Angels fans or childhood victims of drunken fathers in his prison ward, he might not serve out the full sentence. Shanks happen to guys like that, I understand.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. I don't think he's going to be looking at capital murder.
Of course he got deliberately drunk - but that doesn't really matter. He didn't intend to kill the people that he killed, which is a crucial determination for capital murder. If not that, the only other options for capital murder are acting with a gross indifference to human life and felony murder - both of which I'm not sure he qualifies for.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. True, But OC Juries Run Away Sometimes n/t
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fullerton encouraged a thriving urban redevelopment based on bars
and nightclubs. It really isn't safe to drive after midnight there and many other places in Orange County,
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You're Forgetting the Gun Shops
You're right about the rest of Fullerton's redevelopment. Whenever I drive down Commonwealth, I see the gun shops and the pickup trucks, and shiver.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I guess the discount casket place is placed pretty appropriately
there on Commonwealth.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I Forgot The Casket Shop
There's just something grotty about Fullerton. Everything you've mentioned in central Fullerton is truly creepy. At least there is a good donut shop on Harbor.

But I think you're right - the Casket Shop and the nearby bars are just too rich an irony to be the result merely a coincidence.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. This story is enough to break your heart n/t
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. I saw the results of a drunk driver on Tuesday. Laid out in a casket.
A young lady who was an OSU student, 20 years old, was laid out at a funeral home. I was there with my BF who was going to visit the grave of one of his classmates in Memorial Park, Edmond, OK.

She was going eastbound on the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC at 2 am Sunday and was hit by a guy driving the wrong way. The guy was also killed in the wreck. The girl's car was hit in the rear by a third car.

Article:
http://www.newsok.com/friends-family-remember-edmond-womans-life/article/3359939

R.I.P., Erin Elizabeth Swezey. :cry: :cry:

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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Very sad...
...both the story in the OP, and the one you posted. All DUI deaths are just terrible.

It's really amazing how many deaths are attributed to alcohol. I see absolutely nothing wrong in drinking. Glass of wine or two for dinner, or a couple of cocktails at the bar, or a beer while watching sports or catching up with friends, or champagne at a celebration, etc. It's all cool.

However, it's the culture around alcohol that really concerns me. In high school, college, workplace, hanging out with friends, etc. The mach-oness associated with heavy drinking has never made sense to me ("Dude, that guy is so awesome! He could down more beers than anyone else I know!") The pride over being totally wasted is also a bit bizarre ("I had no idea how I made it home, don't remember a thing!"). And the "you gotta have another one" mentality is reaching pretty scary levels (whether it's challenging each other to shots, or intentionally pushing someone from getting buzzed to getting wasted, etc.).

And while most think this attitude ends in college, that's not true at all. At weddings, corporate parties, class reunions, sports events, etc. you'll see the same (and often much worse).

DUI deaths alone are around 13,000 per year. What an avoidable loss of life! And excessive drinking problems are not just limited drunk driving, but include so much else - abusive relationships, general violence, unfortunate words/remarks, excessive spending, health issues, impaired decision making, etc.

Drinking responsibly is not just a slogan for the alcohol companies, but something we have to embody within each of ourselves. How are younger people going to drink responsibly when they see adults get absolutely hammered and are proud of it? Not to mention the glorification of drinking in TV/music/movies. In the end it's an individual choice, but the pressure people put on others to drink more than they need to is unfortunately very effective.

And before anyone flames me, I'll repeat - I have absolutely nothing against drinking at all. I believe it's an enjoyable part of life. However, I am very concerned about the culture that has developed around drinking, one that takes pride in encouraging excessive drinking.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I think most American families have alcoholics in them.
And it is not talked about. Or the alcoholics never stop and deal with their lives.

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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. You bring up some very good points about alcohol's role in culture
I enjoy beer as much as anyone else. I lived in Portland OR and had an absolute blast trying the million different microbrews they have.

But the city also has a great mass transit system. And I WALKED to bars, something which can't be done in the suburbs. Unfortunately everyone in the suburbs drinks just as much if not more and drives anyways. The dirty little secret is how common drunk driving is. It's scary.

Of course, the culture surrounding alcohol itself is bizarre, especially regarding the binging. I know it's a big role in corporate life as well. My buddy at a major consulting firm mentioned the partners and how much they drink at happy hour events - and it's almost a source of pride. Very strange.

I could be wrong, but I don't think this issue of binging is quite the same in Continental Europe (though I've heard it's a huge issue in the UK). I know that many European nations have very strict DUI penalties.
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. I lived in Continental Europe in my high school years...
...and things were really normal. At 16, most people were going to bars and enjoying a drink or two. Very few people got wasted, and those who did were more often than not kids of American expats. However, I'm not totally sure how things are outside of high school years, but I don't think it's as bad as in the US or UK.

You're totally right about corporate life - it's very, very heavily based on alcohol consumption, especially consulting/professional services/etc.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. Part of it, imho, has to do with the "legal age" nonsense
I grew up in a family where a glass of wine at dinner, a cocktail before, a beer at a family gathering was the norm, regardless of age. Being drunk was frowned upon, and no one who had had too many was ever allowed to drive home.

Neither I nor any of my generation in that family fell into the college-age habit of going out and getting smashed. We were raised to respect alcohol and respect ourselves.

Too many of my friends, then and now, grew up watching "the adults" get wasted and just couldn't wait to do it themselves, legally or otherwise. And too many of those friends fell victims, one way or another, to drunk driving.

It's not the drinking, it's the drunking.


TG
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. interesting TG
same story hee. I began drinking beer, supervised at family functions, at age 12. No one in my family is a problem drinker, and I still love my beer 40 years later. Meanwhile many friends from families in which "underage" drinking was a mortal sin have had problems. Education, not prohibition, usually wins
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. That makes sense.
Thanks for sharing that.

The obsession with getting smashed is really crazy. I just don't know why anyone would ever not want to be in control of their decisions. What's scarier is how many people encourage others to get smashed, whether it's by consistently laughing at their stories, or the inner desire to see someone out of control.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Same here. We always had a glass of wine at Sunday dinner,
holidays, etc. From the time I was quite little. When we were real young, my folks would mix the wine with 7-up or something, but that didn't last long. We were drinking wine from pretty young. So, drinking wasn't all that big a thing to me. I think the mystique adds to the problem.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. Don't forget that drinking is glamorized in TV commercials and
even in the commercials at the theatre. Liquor and Beer ads are as prevalant as cigeratte adds were in the 1950's.

Until drastic reform is implemented and steps are taken to curb the glamorization of alcohol it will continue to get worse.

I think people know that alcohol is available we don't need reminders of it every 5 minutes.

I am not talking prohibition, that's ridiculous. But the Liquor industry has been unscathed and the liquor lobby has too much power.

I will repeat what you have noted
<snip>
And before anyone flames me, I'll repeat - I have absolutely nothing against drinking at all. I believe it's an enjoyable part of life. However, I am very concerned about the culture that has developed around drinking, one that takes pride in encouraging excessive drinking.
<snip>
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
54. Totally agreed
And outside of media, you see it a lot within personal relationships - work, friends, family, etc.

How many times have we heard "C'mon, it's your birthday, you gotta have another...and another...and another..." To the point that the individual is often vomiting in the bar bathroom. It's bad enough that this happens in college, but it's exponentially worse that professional adults do the same.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
44. weird how it says she was "in the wrong place at the wrong time"
sounds like HE was :mad:
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Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. If he were an illegal immigrant the righties would be going bananas instead
I hadn´t heard a word about this until I came in here. Why do they only care about DUI accidents that involve illegal immigrants instead of all DUI accidents?
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
46. That's a very good question. We should hammer
the press on this.

Welcome to DU!!
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Summermoondancer Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Thank you I just noticed it and it struck me since whenever it is an
immigrant, even a legal one, but especially one whose documents aren´t in order, they scream bloody murder..to me DUI is DUI and what documents a person has or doesn´t is irrelevent...all DUI drivers should go to jail.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
14. the milwaukee journal-sentinal
had i think over a monthlong series profiling drunk driving fatalities. sadly WI is too easy on them. hear about 8 time DUI's too often. and several people killed after the series.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. Alcohol kills, in a variety of ways
A good friend, living in NH, was busted for his fourth DWI in 2007.
He didn't get into an accident in any of the busts.
The fourth DWI was a felony and he was facing 7 years in the state prison.
After he was released from custody he went home, got drunk again, and committed suicide.
He was 54 years old.

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Jkid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. Instead of sending his ass to prison for life.
Why not ban him from driving for life? A 25 to life driving ban for DUI. Let's see how he'll get to work without a car, especially in Los Angeles.

Oh wait, LA still has a somewhat decent public transportation system, he should do fine.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. he killed 3 people and you think they should just ban him from driving ?
and i believe he already wasn't allowed to drive when he killed those people.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. This guy is responsible for three deaths and was driving on a suspended license
He was a repeat offender and I don't think anything but a very long prison sentence is adequate in homicidal drunk driving cases.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. You have got to be kidding.
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 10:53 AM by LisaL
Ridiculous. By the way the suspect license was already suspended, which clearly didn't stop him from driving. Get a clue.

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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. one of my best friends was killed this way.
the bastard got less than a year.

How would you feel if someone killed a family member of yours, because they were driving drunk? Does a ban for life on driving sit well with you?

This man should be charged with murder, because that is exactly what he did.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. I had a friend killed this way, and they didn't even GET any time
If I'm driving, I won't even have a drink.
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
36. Unfortunately, the California prison system is buckling

He'll probably end up out again in a few years.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
48. He committed a crime with a deadly weapon
fuck him - I hope he never sees the light of day again. I have ZERO tolerance for those who drink then drive. It's a decision not made on a whim and because of it 3 innocent people are DEAD.

Lock his sorry ass up.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
58. And no swimming for 25 years for pirates
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
59. The entire time my sister
dated and was married to her, now, ex husband, he did not possess a valid driver's license because of DUIs. That never stopped him from driving. He is in prison on 2nd degree murder, because he slammed into a car making a legal left turn; the car burst into flames & the driver was burned alive. Tne ex BIL left the scene, talked his stupid girlfriend into returning to the scene to claim she was the driver. This was not the first time he had hit another auto while driving drunk just the first time he had killed someone.



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Jeep789 Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
21. Terrible,avoidable accident but murder??
I have trouble with him being charged with murder when science has shown alcoholism is a disease. A person on alcohol or drugs does not have the mental capacity to make rational decisions. The "man" is only 22 and it has also been scientifically proven that one's brain does not function as an adult until 25 further rendering his rationality (as most of us understand it) deficient.

I don't know the solution to the problem but I sincerely doubt that sentencing a young man to a life in prison (for a crime which many are guilty of but are lucky enough to have not killed anyone, at least of notoriety)is it.

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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. We don't know that he was an alcoholic, so we don't even know that he has a "disease"
to which his behavior can be attributed.

For all we know, he just got stinking drunk on this particular occasion (perhaps some others as well, but nothing that would necessarily indicate alcoholism) and got behind the wheel of a car.

That is the crucial difference. Whether you are an alcoholic or not, the decision to get behind the wheel and drive is what makes you a person who has made a conscious choice to take the chance that you will kill or maim someone.

As for your arguments that he was mentally incapacitated by both his intoxication and the youth of his brain which was not yet adult enough, what is this person incapable of making "rational" decisions doing behind the wheel of a car? Drunk OR, if his brain is as young and undeveloped as it is, sober? Shouldn't we raise the driving age to 25, then? And ban alcohol, because it's the only way to keep adults from becoming too irrational to drive safely? Is that what you really want?

You're arguing that this guy doesn't belong in prison for life because other people have driven drunk and somehow managed not to kill anyone. Well, exactly--those who managed to do this and not kill anyone are lucky. They should not be encouraged to take further chances. Your attitude--that it was mere circumstance or "bad luck" that caused this one to kill people--is absurd. He made the decision to become a potential taker of life at the point he got behind the wheel. If he did not want to accept responsibility for possibly killing someone, he should not have gotten behind the wheel.

Drink all you want, folks. The drinking is not what makes you a killer. It's getting behind the wheel after you drink that makes you a person who made the decision--and yes, you are making a decision, incapacitated or not--to become a potential killer.

If you do that, you don't deserve mercy. You ended someone's life. Perhaps several people's lives. Whether you intended to kill those people or not. By getting behind the wheel, you decided you'd chance that you might kill them. Or others. And that the risk was OK with you.

Too many people are quick to excuse the drunk driver who kills because they can more easily imagine themselves in his shoes than in the shoes of his victims. They think of all the times they drove drunk and how "lucky" they were not to kill anyone, and think "There but for the grace of God go I. We shouldn't throw the book at him."

We need to turn that around. Because his victims pay with their healthy bodies or lives for his impaired decision making, and those who loved them pay in emotional pain for the rest of their lives. And there but for the grace of God go you.

Oh, and this guy fled the scene...what do we know about people who flee a scene after doing something like this? That they KNOW they are guilty of doing something wrong, and they do not want to face the consequences.

This guy should be locked up and the key thrown away.

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ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. since mid 2008, anyone getting a CA license signs that they agree that they can be charged with murd
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 10:29 AM by ardvark
murder, if they kill in a dui

he was driving without a license, so he would have had to sign that before he could ever drive again

i dont think he should be given a 'discount' on that issue, because he didnt wait to get his license back
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. That's the other egregiously bad thing about all this.
I mean, this guy has more strikes lined up against him than is even believable.

Saying "He's only 22, his brain's not developed yet, he didn't know what he was doing, he shouldn't be held responsible" is absurd. If he's so undeveloped and incapable of responsibility, why is he driving a car? Why is he permitted to drink alcohol?
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ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. he was driving his stepmom's minivan
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 10:51 AM by ardvark
if she didnt concent to it, another stike against this guy

he completely ruined her life too, she'll be sued into a hole so deep she'll never come out
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Well, life in prison will certainly prevent him from acting upon his "disease"...
unless he becomes a pruno brew master.
He's a multiple killer. No sympathy from me.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Also, he is facing life in prison for KILLING 3 PEOPLE, not drunk driving
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ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. this is an exellent point
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 11:26 AM by ardvark
it's politically incorrect to say so, but there is a difference between someone who is right at .08 driving (otherwise) carefully and caught at a chekpoint, and someone who already has a dui, driving on a suspended license, blowing a red light and killing 3 people

blowing red lights needs to be a stronger offense, dui or not - used to see people do it all the time north side of chicago, blowing red lights at blind intersections

pure russian roulette
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Nonsense.
Even if alcoholism is a disease, it doesn't make someone to drink and then get behind the wheel of a car and drive.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. No, manslaughter
He killed three people, out of willful negligence. b-bye
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. OMFG -- please give me a break on your "rationalizing" DWI
Ugh.
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. At 22...
...if you don't know that drinking and driving don't mix, then you deserved to be punished big time. And if you kill three people because of your poor judgment, then you deserve to be charged with murder.

The punishment should be the same as if this guy got drunk and shot three people with a legally-owned gun (ignoring the fact here that he was driving without a license). If that's murder, then this is murder.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. Well if a man picks up a gun or other weapon and injures or
kills another human it is murder.

When a man or woman drinks and gets into a 3000+ pd vehicle, knowing the possible outcome then it should be considered murder.

We can say it's a disease, we can say it was an accident but in the end usually innocent people minding their own business are killed.

The man in this case is only 22. The man in the case in an earlier story was 34, age is not an indicator of who is drinking and driving.

There is no excuse.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. No, it most certainly is not murder- and nor should it be considered such
Homicides are determined by the level of intent. In the case of a man who shoots his wife because he walks in and discovers her in bed with another person- that's traditionally manslaughter, because he acted in the heat of passion on sudden provaction- which is quite different than premediation and/or lying in wait.

Similarly -a person wantonly shooting off a gun in a croweded area generally doesn't have the level of intent (mens rea, culpable mental state, etc) required for murder. However, the person can be said to have acted in reckless disregard for human life, and ought to be convicted according.

Same is true with respect to drunk drivers who are indifferent to the safety of others- (or the owners of dangerous dogs) and whose actions cause a death.



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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. as someone who was disabled by a drunk driver..
and who has been in pain every day since 2/3/1985 - fuck him. I don't give a shit if it's a disease or not. The drunk drivers still make the choice TO DRIVE after drinking - that's the problem. I don't care if they want to drink themselves to death and why - but when they know they're going to drink like that they need to make the decision up front to have a designated driver or stay the fuck home.

He made a decision that can be compared to pulling a gun and randomly shooting - the odds are someone can get killed.

Fuck him.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Nini that is what I was trying to say
I am sorry that you had to experience this first hand.

It still comes down to choice and responsibility.
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Very sorry to hear that
I haven't known anyone close who has been affected by a drunk driver. But I fear it everyday. The stories I hear like yours or on TV are just terribly saddening. So avoidable. Did the driver get punished in any way in your accident? I certainly hope so. I totally agree with you that these people made a choice to drive, and they should be punished. No excuses. They should be hit as hard as possible with the book.

However, one point I'd like to make in your response. You said that you "don't care if they want to drink themselves to death" and the you just care about whether they drink and drive. This is a common attitude, and one I used to have. But I think the problem is not just in DUI/DWI - it's in the culture of drinking that has developed (discussed upthread). Drunk driving is one aspect of it, albeit perhaps the most important one.

But excessive drinking leads to so many problems. Let's look at sports events as one example, especially in Europe with hooliganism and street fights. But even in the US it happens quite a bit. As one minor example, a group of intoxicated people at Giants Stadium shouted toward me "Hey Taliban!" My resemblance? My brown skin. I have no beard, nothing. And, btw, I was waving two American flags and cheering at the top of my lungs in support of Team USA (soccer). Obviously, you just ignore that and move on, but it really ruins an event, and it could have gotten uglier if I responded. And these same people, when sober, would probably never, ever make such a statement. Yes, this is a very minor example, but since it's one I've faced I felt like I could share it better than others that my friends and acquaintances have faced.

Here's another example. Could this have happened without them drinking "beer all afternoon"? http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/9830276/rss

So until society (family, friends, colleagues, etc) starts de-glamorizing excessive drinking, and making it known that drinking beyond means is socially unappealing, the problem of drunk driving is not going to go away. And since society seems to be making no progress, I'm not holding my breath. Instead, I just thank my lucky stars everytime I safely park my car at home at night.

I really hope that your physical and emotional pain goes away. Very sorry to hear about your situation.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. I agree that irresponsible drinking is not being addressed
When someone gets to the point where their behavior or judgment changes - they've gone too far and that's where I draw the line with them for the reasons you gave.

Some people are just assholes and when you add drinking to the mix they get downright dangerous.

Sorry you had to go through what you did too. What idiots.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. so then you are excusing domestic violence too
at least when the suspect is drunk or impaired by liquor. and i can tell you from my experience, most DV arrests i make involve somebody affected by either alcohol or drugs.

after all, he doesn't have the "mental capacity to make rational decisions"

bullshit.

we all know alcohol lowers inhibitions and affects judgment

but if you VOLUNTARILY intoxicate yourself, then you take responsibility for your actions.

period.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
57. what a heartbreaking story about the up and coming LA pitcher.
so sad.
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