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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:55 PM
Original message
Women protesters against 'marital rape' law spat on and stoned in Kabul
Source: The Times (UK)

A group of Afghan women who braved an enraged mob yesterday to protest against an “abhorrent” new Afghan law had to be rescued by police from a hail of stones and abuse.

The protest by about 200 women, unprecedented in recent Afghanistan history, was directed at the Shia Family Law passed last month by the Afghan parliament which appears to legalise marital rape and child marriage.

The rally, staged by mostly young women with their faces exposed, was a highly inflammatory act of defiance in a country as conservative as Afghanistan. It provoked a furious reaction from local men and a rapidly expanding mob threatened to swamp the demonstrators as they tried to approach the Afghan parliament.

“Go home if your mothers and fathers are Muslims,” one Shia cleric shouted at the protesters, who were pressed into an ever-tighter huddle as the crowd surrounded them. “These people will beat you if you stay.”

Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6098614.ece



Women protesting at 'pro-rape' law attacked by Afghan men

Source: The Independent (UK)

Hamid Karzai's repressive new legislation provoked violent scenes in Kabul yesterday. Jerome Starkey witnessed the anger.

Women marching against new legislation which effectively legalises rape met violent opposition from an opposing mob in Kabul yesterday.

Dozens of riot police, backed by more than 50 elite counter-terrorism officers, struggled to keep the groups apart as hordes of men charged at the protesters, who had taken to the streets near Afghanistan's parliament.

At one point the women , who were marching to parliament to deliver a petition, were pelted with stones. Men chanted "long live Islam" and spat at the women who had assembled outside a mosque built by Ayatollah Mohseni, the Shia cleric who helped draft the law. At a separate demonstration, police fired into the air to disperse a mob surrounding a school accused of organising the protests.

=snip=

The UN has warned that a number of women have already received death threats for speaking out against the Shia Family Law, which President Hamid Karzai signed last month.

Most of the men were part of a counter-demonstration. Hundreds of them charged at riot police while a cordon of female police officers held hands in a ring around the women, to try to protect them.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/women-protesting-at-prorape-law-attacked-by-afghan-men-1669296.html

-- --- --

NYT report: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/world/asia/16afghan.html?_r=1&bl&ex=1239940800&en=9fa61f8ed596eb41&ei=5087

AP video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dBX25jJWto











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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Brave women! There needs to be about a 100 times the women to protest.
Actually women all over who are not beaten for protesting should join in around the world in protest of these disgusting enslaving laws towards women. These men have had control over a woman for to to long.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's a great idea---global protests for women's rights.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yes!
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. showing our solidarity with them is good idea.
no woman should be treated inhumanely.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Why only women? Shouldn't men stand up for human rights, too?
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. I would gladly join a day of protest for these women.
And I would hope they will be massive in size and global in nature.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. What brave women! This is who changes the world,
not presidents and legislators, but they are invited to follow the leaders.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. You can tell how bad it is in Afghanistan by how the women are treated.
This is a culture engulfed in violence and one that will be for the foreseeable future.
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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's not just Afganistan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Jordan, etc.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. It's worse in Afghanistan. They were executing women in the soccer statidum
before the war, remember? Some parts of Pakistan are probably as bad.
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Jordan? Don't think so. Jordanian women by no means have it as bad off as
they do in the other countries you mentioned.

Are there still serious rights abuses in Jordan. Sure.

But the don't even come close to the nightmare that many Saudi, Pakistani and Afghani women must survive.
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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Women privates are stilling be cut up in Jordan and the King says it's a touchy subject and cultural
and there is still honor killings there. Many of those countries that have muslim law are horrible to their women. They are treated as second class citizens.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I think they must be extremely worried about going back to this...
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 12:54 AM by Turborama
I've posted it a couple of times inside threads recently and haven't got any feedback as of writing, so I'm not sure if anyone's taken a look yet. After watching it again recently, it reminded of exactly how much the people (particularly, but not only, the women) have got to lose if the Taliban get back into power...



Beneath the Veil
A hard hitting documentary with presenter Saira Shah who went undercover prior to 9/11 to find out what the Afghanistan not shown in the media was like under Taliban rule. Strongly recommended documentary for anyone who is interested in what was happening in Taliban run Afghanistan leading up to the 2001 invasion and what the country will very likely descend into again if we just 'pull out':http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4201322772364661561



(Edited to throw in a couple of missing commas...)

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I saw that. The Taliban is already back in power and has been for some time
just not officially or centrally.

If there is an escalation in Afghanistan, a disproportionate number of casualties will be those women. You know that, right?

We need a different plan. We can't bomb the Taliban into changing their mind.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. We do have a different plan. Obama hasn't articulated it clearly, though...
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 02:54 AM by Turborama
Here's an article that decries this:



Jakarta Globe

Ashley J. Tellis
April 14, 2009

Despite opposition from many within the Democratic Party and even within the White House against deepening US involvement in Afghanistan, President Obama has courageously decided to fight this war — using, as he put it, “all elements of our national power to defeat Al Qaeda, and to defend America, our allies, and all who seek a better future.” In a White Paper, his administration has affirmed that Washington aims “to disrupt, dismantle, and eventually destroy extremists and their safe havens” within the “Af-Pak” region because doing so constituted America’s “vital national security interest.” All this is good, but by failing to admit, out of political convenience, that the United States will engage in nation-building in Afghanistan — even as he embarks on just that mission — Obama risks undermining his own strategy.

=snip=

It is to President Obama’s credit that, despite strong pressures emerging from various quarters, he has rejected all of these alternatives in favor of building an effective democratic state in Afghanistan. That is the good news. If success in Afghanistan — understood as the extirpation of Al Qaeda and the marginalization of the Taliban as an armed opposition — is to be achieved, Washington and its partners will have no choice but to erect an effective Afghan state that can control its national territory and deliver its citizens security, responsive governance and economic development necessary to ensure internal stability. Nothing less will suffice for attaining even the most minimal strategic aim in Kabul. Obama’s new “Af-Pak” policy suggests that he has understood this clearly and his administration’s White Paper corroborates his intention to pursue precisely this goal. The bad news, however, is that the administration has spelled this out only indistinctly and by circumlocution.

President Obama has asserted that the United States will have a “clear and focused goal,” namely, “to disrupt, dismantle and defeat Al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future.” Toward this end, he has rejected any “return to Taliban rule”; he has upheld the need for “a more capable, accountable and effective government in Afghanistan that serves the Afghan people”; and he has endorsed the objective of “developing increasingly self-reliant Afghan security forces that can lead the counterinsurgency and counterterrorism fight with reduced US assistance.”

Whether explicitly admitted or not, these propositions indicate that the United States will not abdicate state building in Afghanistan, will not recognize the Taliban as an acceptable Islamist group in contrast to, for example, Al-Qaeda, and will not exit Afghanistan either as an end in itself or to better focus on Pakistan, as some analysts have suggested. The administration’s reiteration of the need for “a more capable, accountable and effective government in Afghanistan” also implicitly conveys a rejection of all ambiguous strategies of governance, a refusal to integrate an unrepentant Taliban into any Afghan organs of rule, and a decisive repudiation of authoritarianism as a solution to the political problems in Kabul.

But the failure to transparently declare that the United States is committed to building an effective democratic state in Afghanistan — a circumvention owed probably as much to appeasing fears within the Democratic Party as it is to calming NATO partners about nation-building — has opened the door to unreasonable expectations that his strategy for defeating terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan can be implemented without what the New York Times calls “the vast attempt at nation-building the Bush administration had sought in Iraq.” As the civilian surge already underway in Afghanistan suggests, the administration understands that successful counterterrorism needs successful state building. But the failure to own up to this could prove to be the strategy’s undoing — within Congress and among the allies. Accordingly, the president should clarify this ambiguity at the earliest opportunity.

=snip=

Full article: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=440708&mesg_id=440708



Here's the white paper: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/03/27/A-New-Strategy-for-Afghanistan-and-Pakistan/


PS thanks for taking the time to watch that documentary, have you seen the Al Jazeera English and PBS Pakistan ones yet? If not, I can link you up...

PPS

I am usually anti-war, I fought long and hard with invasion of Iraq supporters for about 7 months leading up to March 2003 in AOL chatrooms and went on as many marches as I possibly could, as it was clear to anyone with half a brain-cell that the excuse to carry it out was being built on lies and disinformation and the aftermath would be unthinkable (I was living in London at the time and, even though it didn't make much difference in the end, the media there was not behind the Iraq invasion, unlike in the US where everyone seemed to be behind this badly thought out illegal act).

However, after watching Beneath the Veil and the 9/11 atrocity, I've been looking at Afghanistan as a place that needs a lot of help. Unfortunately, this help cannot be given from a distance. The reconstruction/sustainable development of Afghanistan's infrastructure can only be carried out in a secure environment. An environment in which civilian aid workers are not kidnapped and beheaded. Common sense dictates that this secure environment can only be achieved by having enough 'on the ground' soldiers. The aerial bombings will lessen a great deal (and only be brought in to support troops during man to man combat) when we finally have enough forces on the ground to hold the ground we have won - something that clearly cannot be done with the amount of troops we have there at the moment...

Some thoughts I shared in a previous thread that I think are worth repeating:


...if we pull out the Taliban death cult will most certainly get back to imposing their reign of terror on Afghanistan in a short amount of time? When that happens, Afghanistan will be shut off from the outside world, again. If you haven't seen it already and want to know what life was like under the Taliban, the documentary below is a must see. I remember watching it on TV when I was in England before 9/11 and I thought to myself, someone needs to stop this psycho-sadist/misogynistic madness. After getting increasingly concerned about the ethnic cleansing that was happening there, for the 1st time in my life I was actually glad to see a country being invaded and had hopes that all the billions promised by various countries for reconstruction ($5billion at the time, if I remember correctly) would come through with haste, the reconstruction/development of the infrastructure would quickly get under way and the Afghan women could finally be treated like human beings. That pledged money never did come through (http://www.spinwatch.org.uk/-articles-by-category-mainmenu-8/62-international-politics/4847-the-tragedy-of-afghan-aid">The Tragedy of Afghan Aid) and for 8 long years we've watched in dismay ever since http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,501030721-464487,00.html">attention on Afghanistan waned and was focused on the illegal invasion and subsequent http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=789547337385191959">pilfering and http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3168421456806470433&ei=lzl_Sf7UI4PcwgO_vrGjDA&q=Iraq+for+Sale+The+War+Profiteers+&dur=3">cronyism in Iraq.

As I've said before, Afghanistan and Iraq are two different situations. We should never have gone into Iraq (I was totally against the 1st Gulf war, too) and should have finished the job off properly in Afghanistan when we had a chance to do it quickly. However, that's not what happened and we cannot leave Afghanistan and let it return to the failed brutalized state it was.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I was working with RAWA before 9/11 and share your concern
for these women. We cannot abandon them ever again.

Three things, though.

1. Obama has to deal with the ISI who props up the Afghani Taliban.

2. Obama also has to deal with CIA who is most likely involved in the poppy business and they will not welcome that, to put it delicately.

3. We have to push Hillary Clinton to make this about women and children. She can but we have to help her get to that place. Afghanistan is insular, so to speak. Foreign troops on their soil may hold back the spread of the worst abuses but they will not prevent or end them. We need to take this to the UN and in numbers and with a real coalition.

There is no military solution for Afghanistan or for its women. We have to go forward by other means. Afghanis are notoriously good negotiators. We have to put up a team of better ones.

Obama's "civilian surge" is a good idea. But we have to back it up with vigilance, with monitoring, with a real lobby.
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get the red out Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. You are right
We cannot abandon them, or any of the women across this planet who suffer at the hands of such evil men clinging to misguided readings of religion. These men are evil incarnate, just like in Saudi Arabia, and those monsters in Saudi Arabia are not our friends in any way and are responsible for setting up these "schools" in Pakistan that helped to birth the Taliban to begin with. It is time for liberals to get their human rights pants on and say NO!

Aid to countries that comes out of our tax money should have some major human rights and women's rights strings attached. I don't want one dime I pay in taxes doing one positive thing for a man that would do this to women.

Maybe Kharzi needs to be abandoned to the assassination-minded wolves if he fails to comply with progress on women's rights. He may need to know that individually, he just isn't that damned important. Maybe it is time for Hammad to meet Allah. And despite this law, I am quite sure the Taliban would be glad to oblige him. It is what he deserves after this.

Than all of you who are posting on this thread, I have seen way too many liberals want to gloss over women's rights issues in recent years. The world needs to put this on the front burner.

Looking at the beautiful faces of these young women contrasted with the viscous faces of their attackers makes me hate these Muslim men beyond what a human being should feel hate. I can't possibly describe the hate I feel for these men. And there are no apologists that are going to ever make me feel differently.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. The UN?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. We need every big international forum we can access, imo. n/t
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. you can tell how bad it is in ALL cultures by looking at their treatment of minorities/ oppressed
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 09:11 AM by La Lioness Priyanka
groups, this is not unique to islamic cultures
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. They have very tiny, useless dicks in Afghanistan.
And every one of them has contracted koro.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genital_retraction_syndrome>
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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. "Koro has been successfully treated with a course of alprazolam and imipramine" LOL
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 12:21 AM by bkkyosemite
That's what should be done drug those SOB's so the women can beat the hell out of them and their hmmmm well ya know..
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HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Those women might do well to remember what I told my ex
after the second (and last) time he put me in the emergency room: "You've got to sleep some time, mf'er".

It finally took a restraining order and the law to get him out of the state, but it was when I breathed those words out loud I finally had my nerve to stop the cycle of insanity and abuse.

I hope those women who found their nerve also find their freedom. Every human deserves a dignified existence.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Good for you. I'm glad you got out.
:thumbsup:
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. Where are those men's beards????
I thought they were devout?!!!

On a more serious note: The Mayor of Kabul, I mean President of Afghanistan drops the ball again. He's about as gifted a politician as DUH-bya
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Are you kidding? Slime that he is, he never had a chance.
BushCo put up the store front and left for the golf course.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Ha! I was going to post the same thing -- and, what's up with the Western haircuts?
INFIDELS!!!
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
32. Men ? maybe they are only 'boys' with peach fuzz on the face
Edited on Fri Apr-17-09 06:53 AM by ohio2007
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Tab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. This reminds me of Gandhi

It seems they took a page from it, and I hope they continue to protest until they win. The Islamic segmentation (not exactly sure what to call it) of women is just wrong.

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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
18. How DARE they want to be treated like humans.
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dcsmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
20. the class struggle always


from The Communist Manifesto....1848


The history of all hitherto existing society(2) is the history of class struggles.

Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guild-master(3) and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

Part 1


The bourgeois sees his wife as a mere instrument of production...

...He has not even a suspicion that the real point aimed at is to do away with the status of women as mere instruments of production.

Part 2

Text









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friedgreentomatoes Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
31. Hats off to you, women!
And shame on you, pricks!
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