Bush Memos Parallel Claim 9/11 Mastermind's Children Were Tortured with Insects

[Hissyspit]

Source: Raw Story

Bush memos parallel claim 9/11 mastermind’s children were tortured with insects

BY JOHN BYRNE

Published: April 17, 2009
Updated 6 hours ago

Bush Administration memos released by the White House on Thursday provide new insight into claims that American agents used insects to torture the young children of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

In the memos, released Thursday, the Bush Administration White House Office of Legal Counsel offered its endorsement of CIA torture methods that involved placing an insect in a cramped, confined box with detainees. Jay S. Bybee, then-director of the OLC, wrote that insects could be used to capitalize on detainees’ fears.

The memo was dated Aug. 1, 2002. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s children were captured and held in Pakistan the following month, according to a report by Human Rights Watch. While an additional memo released Thursday claims that the torture with insects technique was never utilized by the CIA, the allegations regarding the children would have transpired when the method was authorized by the Bush Administration.

At a military tribunal in 2007, the father of a Guantanamo detainee alleged that Pakistani guards had confessed that American interrogators used ants to coerce the children of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed into revealing their father’s whereabouts.

Read more: http://rawstory.com/08/blog/2009/04/17/bush-torture-memos-align-with-account-that-911-suspects-children-were-tortured/#-

[aquart]

1. Wow. Won't they grow up to be our friends.

Real genius there.

[RC]

14. Maybe that is the idea. Keep the wars going for another generation..

[SurfingScientist]

56. [delete plz]

[napoleon_in_rags]

64. And you know, that's not even the problem.

What they do per revenge. Even if they do nothing, it damages us. I actually live in a nation who's government tortures children. Not a real morale booster. I don't feel compelled to go out there accomplishing for my country when I think of that. If anything, there is a natural desire to not give them the tax payers to fund this kind of thing.

But there's hope: the only thing worse than being in a nation which does abhorrent acts is being in a nation which does abhorrent acts and hides them. There's NOTHING more destructive than deception. And thanks to Obama, at least we are facing our issues and not deceiving ourselves. That at least gets us out of the abyss which presenting deception to the people as a model of leadership sinks us into. Obama has instead presented us with the idea that leadership requires honesty and introspection, even of difficult things.

[armodem08]

2. Okay, this is just totally evil. His children? n/t

[nolabear]

7. The kids were to give up their father's location

That's the reason. Now, imagine yourself a seven or ten year old (the kids' ages) and you're taken from your family, held for a month and tortured with sleep deprivation, withholding of food and had ants placed on your legs (I guarantee you someone was holding them down) and you're told they'll bite you unless you tell where your father is hiding. "Nothing bad will happen. It'll be fine." So you do. If you don't think that's a recipe for acts of revenge and "redemption" later on you don't know the human psyche.

It makes me sick to imagine. When will we ever learn?

[superconnected]

30. More like, "what will we learn." This is sick. They tortured children.

I suspect we're going to learn even worse about the bush administration.

[tblue37]

65. Aged 7 & 9. Practically babies. nt

[Kablooie]

70. Ah, but you see, evil enemies of the virtuous USA were revealed so it was delightfully moral.

[TankLV]

99. but somehow, we are told, that the poor TORTURERS didn't know what they were doing was WRONG

and, in fact, TORTURE, because, heck, THEY ASKED, and WERE TOLD WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR - go ahead - what you're doing/about to do again "is not torture" - so it's OK to "abuse" CHILDREN!!!

I am so fucking SICK AND TIRED of all the APOLOGISTS here on DU!!!

[winyanstaz]

3. I am so ashamed of Bush and co for allowing this.

My God, what have we become?
Just wait until they release the rapes of those little kids that Bush has on video.
Wait a minute..if we can't prosecute Bush for torture..how about child porn? Isn't having and watching tapes of little children being raped child porn? Is it now ok to have and watch child porn if your a president?
How long does it take to decide to prosecute for child porn? Will Obama turn away from prosecuting the rape of little kids as he has from prosecuting the torture and murder of adults? I hope not.
I keep hoping Obama has some kind of plan wherein he doesn't try to prosecute but the public forces him to do so or something...anything! Hell, I don't know.
I just know it makes me feel sick to my stomach and ashamed and heartbroken for my Nation and for all those little kids we have hurt.

[Beartracks]

29. What?!

> "Just wait until they release the rapes of those little kids that Bush has on video."

:wtf:

[KayLaw]

36. Yes.

Imagine being a mother and watching your child being raped in front of you. From what I've read, the screams of the little kids is the worst thing they have on tape . . . so far.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. Just wait. Will you be shocked? I won't.

x(

[TankLV]

100. Yes - there ARE such tapes, and YES, OUR MILITARY DID THIS!!!

it's just that YOU haven't been paying sufficient ATTENTION...

[No Elephants]

73. Hoping Obama has a plan wherein he does not prosecute, but...wtf?

[elehhhhna]

86. IMO, your post should be its own thread. Interesting questions.

[wordpix]

97. do you have a link? I've never heard this one

But it's not beyond the realm of reality with the BFEE and BushCo

[Downwinder]

4. Makes you want to gather up all of your fire ants and send them to Crawford.

[GoCubsGo]

27. Forget the fire ants....

Send bullet ants. Their bites make those from fire ants seem like little puppy dog kisses.

[madeline_con]

39. Crawdad was to look "folksy" they moved.

[Stellabella]

5. How unbelievably cruel.

There are just no words.

[ShareTheWoods]

6. I read the same thing on another blog

It must be true. Thank God we have blogs to indict and convict these CIA criminals. It will save us
taxpayers over time.

Throw them all in jail!

[superconnected]

31. bored with free republic?

[madeline_con]

40. AWWW, Freep out! sing with me...

[ShareTheWoods]

44. This Corrosion

I got nothing to say I ain't said before
I bled all I can, I wont bleed no more
I don't need no one to understand
Why the blood run cold
The hired hand
On heart
Hand of god
Floodland and driven apart
Run cold
Turn
Cold
Burn
Like a healing hand

Sing!

[No Elephants]

75. More interesting posting from ShareTheWoods.

[Joey Liberal]

8. We became the bad guys during the Bush reign of error nt

[RC]

16. We've been the bad guys since the aboriginal genocides starting in the 1700's

[The Stranger]

21. But I thought that 2003 was far removed from the 1700's.

Didn't you?

[rhett o rick]

25. No

[marasinghe]

52. but not too far removed from the 1960s & '70s ...

not minimizing the propaganda angle, but, in hanoi there's a museum of chinese & american atrocities; acts of individual barbarism - not just mass murder at remote, like napalming refugee kids and civilian villages. also heard a friend -- former seal in 'nam; very decent guy, now ... back in the war not so much -- describe some of the methods used in interrogating captured teenage vc. straight out of the history books; the alexander, caesar, genghiz khan history books, but with modern gadgets - like jeeps in place of the old hand turned racks. nothing much has changed, since the days of counting native american scalps & handing out smallpox-laced blankets; just the equipment's gotten more efficient. vc & nva were no better; but they were fighting in self-defense.

[DesertDiamond]

9. Oh. my. god. And here I was thinking they couldn't have sunk any lower. Now this.

Not that we haven't had any other such darkness in our government. Just speaking of governmental child abuse, I hope everyone gets a chance to see a new film called Older Than America, based on a true story about forced assimilation of Native Americans, and the murder of six children who refused to assimiliate. This forced assimilation was only outlawed in... 1975!!! Like, just yesterday.

But back to subject. Now that this has been revealed, how can these subhumanoids NOT be prosecuted????

[rhett o rick]

28. So what makes you think this is the lowest? I think worse has happened. nm

[earthboundmisfit]

10. Are we still holding KSM's children?

This is hideous.

[Loki]

11. Depravity has a new definition....

the Bush Administration and CIA torture. There is a special circle in hell for these people. May those of you who perpetrated, condoned and set this country on this course of this unspeakable evil never rest peacefully again. Always look over your shoulder, because justice is there, and it will come for you with a vengeance. May I live long enough to see you tried, sentenced and locked away forever.

[MetaTrope]

12. Remember the Iraqi general who turned himself in because the U.S. took his wife and children hostage

Just another notch in Bush's noose.

[mod mom]

13. Will Obama, as a father, react to this with the same look forward position.

These are sadistic criminals that need to be prosecuted. The law should be blind. If this was done to their children, they would go ballastic.

[superconnected]

32. Apparently Obama is allowing this stuff to be released.

I don't think he's going to repeat Bush's crimes.

[mod mom]

33. Not repeat but he needs to see that they are prosecuted. "then aged seven and nine"

[Deb]

15. So.. the leading Republican's office endorsed child abuse

freaking filth :grr: Why am I not surprised?

[dembotoz]

35. part of no child left behind

more and more comes out
and obama does fucking nothing......

[EFerrari]

17. Speechless.

[antimatter98]

18. I wonder how far back this kind of thing goes for CIA and US operatives.

I mean, for example, when Chiquita Brands funded killers in Columbia to counter labor leaders,
were kids set upon by these people.

Since Eric Holder worked to get Chiquita a sweetheart deal in the case, I can understand his
morality would probably not extend to those killed or tortured, but only to Chiquita Brands Corporation.

[Reform]

19. This is surprising?

John Yoo publicly argued there is no law that could prevent the President from ordering the torture of a child of a suspect in custody – including by crushing that child’s testicles.
This is nothing
The things that are not in the open yet is really what makes me think.
I hope this will make Mr.Obama think long and hard

[CubicleGuy]

23. The thinking is already over

I hope this will make Mr.Obama think long and hard

Too late for that. The perps were "just following orders". Nothing to see here. Move along.

[The Stranger]

20. Torturing children.

And how long did Pelosi cover for them doing this?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Did she cover for the Pakistanis?

[tomm2thumbs]

22. if 'it worked, so it should be ok' was the rule, we'd have a-bombed the planet by now

it worked didn't it? - why not keep doing it over and over then?

[rhett o rick]

24. I don't see any of the "they were operating under the guidance of the JD" people in this thread. nm

[tomm2thumbs]

26. didn't you hear the new CIA memo - if you've seen it on a TV show, it's not torture

they love to watch 24 so there ya go - plus fear factor and the rest. It makes their little moralities feel better now.

[katty]

37. more horror

[Solly Mack]

38. K&R

[madeline_con]

41. Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh

Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh
by Gryn
Share this on Twitter - Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh Wed Jul 14, 2004 at 08:33:32 PM PDT
(From the diaries -- kos)
Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/14/193750/666

[KansDem]

81. I wondered about this. Will these child sodomizers also be allowed to walk?

Even if this child-sodomizing were "outsourced," I imagine CIA officers knew about it. Will they walk as well? Just like Catholic priests who raped boys and the bishops who knew about it but didn't do anything to stop it.

I sure as Hell wouldn't want child-sodomizers and their enablers living next door to me...

[methinks2]

83. I agree with you

We need to make sure these same men are never allowed near american children. they should be required to register their location just like any other child abuser.

[methinks2]

85. check with your mental health professional

If someone gets off on rape and sodomy, what is the chance that they'll want to repeat that thrill. If they're back in our nice safe neighborhoods, at what point will they want to do it again. If they can't get sent to a foreign prison to do it, when will they decide that it's worth the thrill to do these same things to some unsuspecting neighbor? They've already shown that if they think they won't get punished, they will do it!!! (sociopath)
Do you want them living next door to you, to your family?

[glitch]

90. Thank you. I knew I'd read far worse, thank you for providing the link.

Not that children being tortured with insects isn't bad enough, but it is the tip of the iceberg. You should post this as an OP again, to remind people, especially the newbies, that there is much more information to be made mainstream.

[Updike]

42. I don't think the Nazis or Kim Jung Il even went that far.

Cue "I'm Proud to be an American."

Not.

[davidinalameda]

71. are you serious?

not that I'm condoning torture of any sort but I believe that the Nazis were in a class by themselves when it came to torturing people

[JI7]

78. seems like a freeper troll trying to make us look bad

[davidinalameda]

87. seems?

you're very generous

[Amonester]

84. they 'joined' the bfee's see eye ay - eom

[democrat in Tallahassee]

43. I sort of thought Osama bin Laden was the mastermind behind 9/11

Has this part of history been rewritten too?

[No Elephants]

74. Osama is a spiritual leader who provides inspiration. GAG.

[burning rain]

45. I'd hate to know any of these characters who carried out these tortures.

A profoundly unpleasant and depraved lot, I'll bet. Nabokov observed something to the effect that no-one relishes meeting an executioner. Yeah.

[LMDJ]

46. Sit back and watch.

I have great faith in Obama. Team Obama is releasing this info bit by bit. It must be released because Americans cannot stand another president/vice-president who would dare violate human rights like Bush/Cheney. Bit by bit America will be educated and something will be done about the injustice. I predict that some country/countries and United Nations will hold someone accountable and Obama will back it up to some degree.

In my opinion, releasing the information is the tip of the iceburg. American will sit back in horror as the reports are released on torturing children in the name of "American Freedom". ELECTING BUSH/CHENEY CLONES MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

Take a deep breath everyone. I'm pissed, too. But I suspect everything that Team Obama is doing is for good reason.

[Swagman]

49. I sincerely hope there is a strategy to leak this information drip by

drip until public outrage forces Obama to take action.Perhaps this is deliberate. Afterall politics can be played in many ways to get an eventual and desired outcome. Surely Barak Obama would be thoroughly disgusted by these actions. That's what I pray.

The image of children dying or being hurt because of our invasion has always haunted me.

[No Elephants]

76. Obama is counting on being forced into action, when he could just act? You're kidding, right? I

would love to force the POTUS to take action against Bushco. Any suggestions on how I do that? I've emailed and called till my fingerprints are gone. BTW, what have you been doing to "force" him?

Heck, I have not even been able to make you "Obama has a double secret sideways backwards plan" people wake up and smell the coffee, so how on earth am I going to force the POTUS to do anything? Especially since he wants to look forward and all. And respect the legal opinions of lawyers that nobody really ever believed in the first place.

Fool me people don't know torture when they see it and fool me they didn't know it was illegal.

[Jefferson23]

53. We all hope so, and welcome to DU.

[Webster Green]

47. Since there is no more rule of law, I can do whatever the fuck I want.

Cool! }(

[dcindian]

48. I am sure there are a few here that would jump at the opportunity to do this to others.

As long as a certain someone says it is ok.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

50. excuse me?

[No Elephants]

77. Really? And how did you become "sure" of that? Seems as though you just pulled it out of your ear.

[dcindian]

79. Yes I am 100% sure humans are mean in nature and wired to follow.

In order to be above this sort of thing you need a strong moral compass and the ability to question even in the face of aggressive pressure. Some here can do that there are some good lefties who have left here, some who have been tombed stoned lately, and some who still stand up for themselves with the ban stick poised over their heads.

Then there are those who only want this place a certain way who have turned from decent progressive minded folks into rabid animals ready to attack. Ready to hold the door open and encourage others to leave especially those who often stand up for what they believe in. It is often the inability to stand one's ground while making ongoing objective judgments about that ground which show a propensity to torture under pressure.

Last year I could of posted here with a nearly 100% agreement factor: Torture is bad and those who did this should be held accountable. Right now you would get a good deal of grief for posting those exact same words. Why? It seems pretty straight forward does it not? Well to some it is and yet for others not so much.

Stanley Milgram did an experiment back when I was just a little pup and here is a good clip of what he found:

Controversy surrounded Stanley Milgram for much of his professional life as a result of a series of experiments on obedience to authority which he conducted at Yale University in 1961-1962. He found, surprisingly, that 65% of his subjects, ordinary residents of New Haven, were willing to give apparently harmful electric shocks-up to 450 volts-to a pitifully protesting victim, simply because a scientific authority commanded them to, and in spite of the fact that the victim did not do anything to deserve such punishment. The victim was, in reality, a good actor who did not actually receive shocks, and this fact was revealed to the subjects at the end of the experiment. But, during the experiment itself, the experience was a powerfully real and gripping one for most participants.

65% ouch

Now I am still a registered republican (lazy), I just have not changed my registration but I have my voting habits for many years now. It has come to a point where I am now a straight line Democratic voter for the last 4 presidential elections. I have watched one party become rabid and move to the right of me and often it seems right now I am watching another do so. While I know I have become somewhat more progressive in the process of growing up and becoming less selfish I still wonder about myself. Would I do such a thing? Would I stop questioning and just become a follower on certain issues because our party leader has decided to do things a certain way. Would I torture? It is easy to say no it will never happen but in practice it seems a bit harder.

Of course none of that changes the fact that torture is wrong and should be punished no matter who does the torture. At least not for some of us.

[wildbilln864]

51. k&r! nt

[RedCloud]

54. Did they torture the guy who knocked down four WTC towers with only two planes?

I guess we are just supposed to forget about the hundreds of billions spent because we don't get that answer.

[bread_and_roses]

55. Hey, so what, even if true? Weren't they "just following orders?"

All those defenses I read this AM convinced me! It's OK to do ANYTHING if you are "just following orders" and a "justice department" assured you it was legal! (do i really need a saracasm visual?)

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I think I am going to be sick

[Cass]

59. I don't see how the world can just ignore all this.

Who knows if any investigations/prosecutions will ever take place here in the US, but I don't see how the world can ignore it. This kind of behavior cannot go unpunished.

This is sickening.

[SurfingScientist]

60. Torture of children. The ultimate disgrace.

This line must never be crossed, no matter how extraordinary the circumstances.

I hope that this story is not true.

If it turns out to be true, then there is no excuse. All those that were involved must not spend another day outside of jail.

[lovuian]

61. Its Horrible

Torturing children is about as low as it go

[momdogz]

62. this makes me feel ill

[Baby Snooks]

63. But Obama says it's okay...

All of this makes me ill to read and it makes me more ill to realize no one will be held accountable. Barack Obama says it's okay.

It is not okay.

[Wednesdays]

67. Obama says this is okay?

He said that torturing children is okay? :shrug: When did he say that?

[file83]

69. He doesn't consider it "torture". Therefore, he thinks it's okay.

[Wednesdays]

88. Wait...Obama came right out and said that putting insects on children

isn't torture? When did he say that?

[Vidar]

66. Killer bees led by Belushi's ghost no doubt.

[ConcernedCanuk]

68. USA Nomba one - things don't seem to change much despite all the rhetoric

.
.
.



(sigh)

[Kablooie]

72. So if a baby with hidden Jews cried while Nazis were looking for them ...

the Bush people would have no moral dilemma at all.

Kill the baby. Simple. Easy.

[Octafish]

96. Exactly. These are NAZI tactics.

Bush and his cronies may not be card-carrying NAZIs, but they and the NAZIs were cut from the same cloth.

[AllyCat]

80. I weep for these children and their families

I weep for our country and what it has become. I weep for those who refuse to see how horrible * and his people really are.

Try them and punish them now.

[methinks2]

82. child abuse???

All abusers and sexual predators are supposed to be required to register with the local govs. We should demand that anyone who abused women or children over there register. I sure don't want any of those people living next door to me or to schools. It doesn't matter that they thought they had permission. they have crossed a line. We need to make sure that american children are safe from people like that who think they hear voices giving them permission to abuse children. If they did it once they'll do it again. Maybe in a nice american suburb next time.

[BlueJac]

89. That makes me sick not proud to be an American!

[Psephos]

91. I tortured my little sister with insects when I was seven

threw a big cicada on her and made her scream

somehow she survived :)

[AllyCat]

93. Oh well, then these kids will be just fine then according to you?

Please tell me I've misunderstood your post.

[Psephos]

94. My post was about my sister

Please tell me I've misunderstood your assumption.

:hi:

[polly7]

92. Children at the very least should be off limits, theirs don't seem to have as much value though.

Sorry George and Dick you didn't get all those flowers you were expecting. I guess you forget all children have emotions, memories and especially love for those families you ripped apart.

[yurbud]

95. if we can't punish Bushies, no one should be punished for lesser crimes

[TankLV]

98. Ahh - ANOTHER validation for us "tinfoilers" who were ridiculed when we made the CHARGES that turned

out to be TRUE...

Chalk up ANOTHER one for US!!!

so far, we're batting ONE THOUSAND!!!