Obama Administration: No Prosecution of Officials for Bush-Era Torture Policy (Rahm Emanuel)

[Hissyspit]

Source: ABC News / George Stephanopoulos

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel said during our exclusive interview Sunday on "This Week" that President Barack Obama will not pursue the prosecution of Bush-era officials who devised torture policy against detainees, as laid out in memos the Obama administration released this week.

- snip -

I asked Emanuel: "The president has ruled out prosecution for CIA officials who believed they were following the law. Does he believe that the officials who devised the policies should be immune from prosecution?"

"He believes that, look, as you saw in that statement he wrote, let's just take a step back. He came up with this and worked on this for about four weeks. Wrote that statement Wednesday night after he had made his decision and dictated what he wanted to see. And Thursday morning I saw him in the office, he was still editing it. He believes that people in good faith were operating with the guidance they were provided," Emanuel said.

What about those who devised the policy, I asked? "Yeah, but those who devised the policy, he believes that they were, should not be prosecuted either," Emanuel said.

Read more: http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/04/obama-adminis-1.html

[EFerrari]

1. Well, that won't work. They'll just have to try again.

:)

[bjobotts]

80. Screw that..why on earth did officials feel the need to administer it 183 times on one individual?

[bjobotts]

81. What kind of Sadist thinks we didn't get info after waterboarding 182 times

[bjobotts]

82. maybe once more will do the trick"?-Steve Benen. Those memos revealed the horror

[bjobotts]

83. Medical personell keeping them alive to be tortured more okayd by Bybee

[bjobotts]

84. It brought shame across America and Now more shame as Obama becomes complicit

[bjobotts]

85. I never thought Obama would be doing this. I'm so disappointed and ashamed

[bjobotts]

86. I am losing all trust in Obama's being a decent man. How could he sell out to these monsters

[bjobotts]

87. How can he look his children in the eyes and tell them he won't prosecute these torturers

[bjobotts]

88. Does he tell them those who justified putting Jews in the ovens just doing their jobs

[bjobotts]

89. Is there no one left to stand up for the virtue of America.No justice left if he passes on this.

[kenfrequed]

146. Uhm...

How about posting just one post. I mean I am annoyed too, but this borders on spam posting.

[The Wielding Truth]

155. We are in a sinking ship and he needs all hands,esp. cia, on deck..

He is also setting up a case that will show the irrefutable proof of wrong doing that,I hope, will force his hand and make him prosecute.To start an all consuming political fight now, when he has stopped the practices is like a surgeon and staff leaving the OR during an operation because the last surgeon and staff has damaged the patient.

Let's not fall for every RW desperate critical doubting gasp. I am not a pie in the sky person, but with all the good he has done so far and how smart this guy really is and how he seems to be listening, I want to follow him out of this mess. If that means going through some tight politic doubts I will do it until I see him leading us to a wrong end.

It has been a terrible experience and we need someone who can help get our USA back in shape. I knew he would not be the man who would give me all I wanted. I know that to be a politician he must work around obstacle to attain his goals. I believe this to be a side bar, a capitulation that is hard to take but if he can help turn this ship around, when we are in a killer storm, I will wait longer to throw any arrows.

[WhichTruth]

105. You're damned right we will.

This is totally unacceptable. We are supposed to be a nation of laws, with equality for all--Not a two tiered system where the rich and powerful go free, while the rest of us are tried for the least of infractions. WE MUST DEMAND JUSTICE!

We have many citizens sitting in prison for possessing a little pot, yet we have government agents or contractors who torture a man over 6 times a day and no charges are filed. That is not justice.

It is time we take responsibility as a nation and lead the world by example. Punish our criminals ourselves, before the rest of the world does. We need to get everyone we can to call and write the White House, our Senators and our Representatives, and our press demanding accountability and justice.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. "I was only giving orders..."

[rhett o rick]

79. Very good. nm

[Optical.Catalyst]

3. This is so disappointing

I am becoming more and more concerned that the Bush Administration cut some kind of deal with President Obama before leaving office. Something is very wrong here. Bush and his cohorts should be in jail.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

52. I agree ...........

My thinking is that the deal went like this: Chimpy Fucknuts agreed not to use his Pardon power as he exited, and Obama agreed not to prosecute.

That makes it all nice and neat.

Same kind of deal that was worked out between Nixon and Ford - Nixon finally agreed to resign if Ford would issue a pardon, and so he did. And that, too, was all nice and neat.

This is politics, the art of the compromise. The art of the possible. The art of the realistic.

The art of the heartbreak.

I am broken by this decision, still disbelieving, still in some kind of shock, I guess. They're walking, all of them, as if they didn't do anything wrong, let alone illegal and immoral. They got away with it. They got away with all of it.

I had grand hopes for Obama. I still do. But the blush is off the rose for me, and not much of what he does or doesn't do I can only view through the prism of the ultimate political reality. It's politics as usual, and now I must get used to the idea of this eternal miscarriage of justice.

It's like dealing with a sudden death ................

[JDPriestly]

71. The art of lawlessness.

Either we are all subject to the law or we are not. There is no compromise on the rule of law. The Bush administration pursued the Justice Department employee who blew the whistle on the wiretapping. They infiltrated peace activists' groups, Quakers and wiretapped indiscriminately and illegally. And now they get by with torture.

This is unacceptable.

First a right-wing economic team and then enforcing the law to let right-wing crimes go while people on the left are hassled (also illegally). No, this is unacceptable.

If our country does not obey and enforce the Geneva Conventions, what country will?

Is Obama planning to violate our obligations and relinquish our protections under the Geneva Conventions? Has he even thought about the long-term repercussions of failing to prosecute those who authorized and committed torture?

[Baby Snooks]

76. It's not nice and neat...

It's not nice and it's not neat and it's not acceptable to anyone who really believes the words our founding fathers wrote when they wrote our Constitution. It was completely and absolutely destroyed this morning on national television. Rule of law means nothing if you rule.

I have no great hopes for Barack Obama finally. Not after this. He is worse than Bush. Because he has affirmed that Bush is above the law.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

144. ::: sigh ::::

I guess the sarcasm emoticon was necessary after my comments about "nice and neat." I thought, perhaps, that the context would have established that they were meant in the most dispirited and disappointed and disbelieving manner.

That you took those words literally just makes the whole thing even sadder and more disturbing...........

[xxqqqzme]

111. I there w/ you.

So far we're going to continue our occupation of Iraq for another 3 years; we're ramping up the war in Afghanistan; bombing civilians in Pakistan; still spying on US citizens w/o provocation or warrant and now the final blow, we're allowing an entire group of criminals to get away w/ torture.

I believe that is no change at all.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

145. Some changes have taken place -

the stem cell matter, the environmental reverses that Obama instituted, other things, things that matter.

But, the big stuff, what you enumerated, has slowly shattered all the faith I had in him, all the expectations I had for this administration.

It would appear that we got sold a bill of goods and it is nothing but business as usual in Washington.

If they had any intelligence among them, the freepers would be celebrating right about now, I suppose...............

[cobalt1999]

4. Is there one person who REALLY thought this was a possibilitiy?

If so, they need to wake up to politics.

This was NEVER going to happen. Zero chance. Nada. Never.

[caseymoz]

31. Oh, it's going to happen, though it might just take a little longer.

This issue is not going to go away, and it's going to grow, never mind Emmanuel believes.

[tbyg52]

167. I sure hope you're right. I know *I'm* not going to forget about it. nt

[webDude]

42. My, you are so cool and cynical. How fashionable and not ...

...helpful.

[Jim Sagle]

63. Cynics know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

[eallen]

54. Much of the Watergate gang spent time in prison, for lesser crimes.

[liquid diamond]

56. I agree with you.

When in this country's history has one president prosecuted his predecessor? Such an action would set a bad precedent and further divide the nation.

[JDPriestly]

75. Torture is too serious a crime. It cannot be ignored or forgiven.

It is a crime against humanity, a violation of international law -- and it places all Americans overseas in jeopardy. How can we condemn terrorists for torturing prisoners if we torture ourselves.

Obama should not fool himself about what it would mean to our nation if we do not prosecute Bush and the other torturers. First, even if Obama never orders or permits torture himself, he will be condoning torture. Obama may claim that the U.S. does not torture, that our national policy does not permit torture. But if we do not prosecute those who tortured and who authorized torture, we are a nation that permits torture.

What is not prohibited is allowed. If we do not prohibit torture, if we do not punish torture, then we are allowing it. And sooner or later Americans will be tortured -- and not just by terrorists.

[fasttense]

122. So if the bush murdered and ate American children, that too would be A OK?

Is there any crime that a president should be prosecuted for? How much do you love this supposed precedent? Everything sets a precedent the 1st time it is used. It took about eight years for Chile to bring Pinochet to justice (He was their commander in chief of the army until 1998).

So like Pinochet (a mass murderer who mutilated the bodies of hundreds of rivals and threw them into the ocean), the bush will get away with his crimes....for awhile.

[Bluenorthwest]

125. Rationalize away,

right remains right, and wrong remains wrong.

[rhett o rick]

162. On contrary, It would be setting a great precedent. And if it divides the country

into those that believe in torture and those that don't, I say it is high time we go at it.

To forgive these horrendous crimes just because we don't want to make part of the country is a terrible argument.

[Baby Snooks]

109. I hoped...

I hoped at least the people who actually tortured the prisoners would be prosecuted and possibly those who authorized it.

I hoped Bush and Cheney would be sent to the Hague. But I knew they wouldn't be. In a perfect world they would be. By Barack Obama.

But this? NO ONE prosecuted? He condemns torture but refuses to prosecute the torturers?

What does that say to the world? That we are above the law. No one is above the law.

[Generator]

168. Even worse the arrogance of Barrack Obama

who now acts like a King. Laws are not necessary. All that he thinks is required is a paragraph of his words saying he's against it but we must look forward. It's so insulting. That little statement last week WAS IT. The entire legacy of the Bush years absolved. (Also I guess people missed that the Iraq war isn't ending-it's just getting a different name-oh and Obama used Bush's very own words when in Iraq-thanking them for "liberating it."

[kenfrequed]

128. Yes

This is why I was so in favor of impeachment. I knew there would be virtually no prosecution for the administration after it was out of office.

[OwnedByFerrets]

147. Cobalt, we were sold HOPE....I stupidly bought the package.

[stillcool]

5. Oh come on...don't they know..

the American people need a show? If our government is good at anything, it's good at that. Or at least it's well-practiced.

[ejbr]

6. I can't understand how he can place these people

above the law. Very disappointing.

[Road Scholar]

13. He placed them above the law but he placed them above US citizens. nt

[PSPS]

7. If true, Obama is dead to me.

If 2012 rolls around with the entire bush junta still living the high life, I won't be voting for Obama. It will be either his primary challenger or I'll stay home (unless the GOP decides to join the world of reality, which isn't likely.)

[stillcool]

10. That whole voting...

them out 'next time' doesn't seem to work very well. Can you imagine if 1% of the American people picked up the phone, or wrote a letter to their representatives insisting on some kind of action? Who knows what would happen? It's never been done before. But you're right...if we're all still around in 2012 none of us should vote for him. That'll fix 'em!!

[Le Taz Hot]

138. The same thing that happened

during the buildup to the IWR vote. Feinstien herself reported 10,000 calls to her office AGAINST the IWR and 300 calls FOR. Guess how she voted? Voting is the the bourgeois' way of letting the prols think they have a voice. The time for letter-writing, phone calls and voting for candidates furnished by the same bourgeois is over. Some of us get it.

[stillcool]

140. 10,000 calls? How many people..

does she represent? How is it that the time for letter writing and phone calls is over, when it has not begun?

[Le Taz Hot]

141. Feinstein?

She represents about 33 million of us. The time for letter writing and phone calls is over. We've written, we've called, we've made/withheld donations, we're marched, we've blogged about SO many issues: IWR, single-payer health care, torture, bailing out the wealthy . . . and to what ends? They don't CARE what we think. They know there are enough party faithful out there who can be counted on to carry their water while these same vermin work against our interests in order to line their own pockets and the pockets of their owners.

[stillcool]

142. How do you know what would..

happen if 1% of the 300+ million of us involved ourselves in our government? I realize that whole 'bottom-up' thing is dead in the water, but it is disingenuous to state that it ever occurred.

[Freddie Stubbs]

156. What Democrat would be dumb enough to run against Obama?

:shrug:

[colsohlibgal]

165. Come On Barack!

I'm about to let loose with a Peter Finch rant myself. Obama seems to be bending over backward to infuriate progressives. I'm glad he wasn't running things at Nuremberg.

[peacebird]

8. Sorry. Nice try, Rahm, but NO ONE is above the law. War crimes must be investigated.

It was because Ford pardoned Nixon instead of letting him go to jail that we got Cheney & company. Criminal acts must be punished.

[villager]

9. "Spare change you can believe in. Sometimes."

n/t

[polichick]

11. Well, looks like Mr. Emanuel is about to get a big wake up call - and the president too...

...if he really believes we can just go hop-skipping into the future with this hanging over our heads.

FAT CHANCE GUYS!

[saigon68]

32. I love the part where they are deporting that 91 year old

a 1943 concentration camp guard from ohio

Dude was in a wheel chair.

That's a good use of our tax money.

[Skittles]

12. disgusting

[undeterred]

14. Why doesn't Obama say it himself and provide the legal

justification for allowing public officials to crap all over the Constitution and international law and get away with it?

[ShortnFiery]

15. Just like Nixon's "Watergate" and Reagan's "Iran-Contra" -->GHOULS scamper into the woodwork ...

to surface again ... STRONGER. :grr: :nuke:


The Day The Nazi Died
Chumbawamba
we're taught that after the war
the nazis vanished without a trace
but battalions of fascists
still dream of a master race
the history books they tell of their defeat in 45
why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

they say the prisoner of spandau
was a symbol of defeat
whilst hess remained imprisoned
then the fascists they were beat
so the promise of an aryan world would never materialize
so why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

the world is ridden by maggots
the maggots are getting fat
they're making a tasty meal
of all the bosses and bureaucrats
they're taking over the board rooms
and they're fat and full of pride
and they all came out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

so if you meet with these historians
i'll tell you what to say
tell them that the nazis never really went away
they're out there burning houses down
and they're peddling racist lies
and we'll never rest again
until every nazi dies

[Bobbieo]

16. Then it is up to us to see that they are prosecuted. I just signed a petition

to the AG.

[undeterred]

22. Do you have a link?

[L. Coyote]

17. "He believes" don't mean squat!! "He believes" Is Obama GOD or are we a Nation of laws!

What, the only Change is who is Dictator now?

[Mark Twain Girl]

27. Good point. We need to back away from "beliefs" (eesh, is this a monarchy?) and get to law. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

18. you have to pick your battles, and I think this one is being handled appropriately for now

From what I heard, that responsibility is not going to lay on CIA officials but on government officials above the CIA, issuing orders & directives. That is how I see it. A year from now, if there hasn't been progress on it, then folks can complain. But if you think within the first 100 days you are going to get everything you ever wanted all at once, look back at the Clinton first 100 days and how one issue can disable functioning of an administration for the rest of the items of the agenda on all levels. Would you prefer to NOT know of the memos at all, nor have them released in good faith. Give it time.

Timing is everything when it comes to prosecution of those that were responsible. If you fight everything, you fight nothing - a good, well-timed single blow beats rapid-fire blasts of punches when the other side is covering their body and that is what you have right now. Let the smart guy be smart and stop trying to second guess everything, every day, every minute. If you REALLY believe Obama is pro-torture, pro-coverup and against legal responsibility - then why did you vote for him? I don't think you really believe that -- and I believe you and he both are smarter than that.

[ShortnFiery]

20. Yes, only following orders to do INHUMANE ACTS. Great defense.

When the right wing rises up again, these evil men and women will be at its helm because we were too AFRAID to prosecute them.

When the right wing rises again, it will be too late.

Prosecute them NOW!

[tomm2thumbs]

21. so you are planning on the right wing rising up? there's a mindset we need more of here

[iamjoy]

123. This Concerns Me Too

I mean, the fact that Obama's complacency coupled with the decisions of the Bush administration could later be used as precedent for even more egregious acts against those deemed to be our enemies, or a threat.

In reality, the Right Wing extremists who think Obama a fascist/socialist/communist dictator should be as angry and concerned about torture as we are. After all, what if some one in the Obama administration determined that some of these right wing hate groups were a possible threat to our country - would it be okay to water-board a neo-Nazi? What if you thought he was about to go blow up a daycare?

Of course, I am being absurd - right? There is a difference (although we can debate how small) between drafting policies to allow torture vs. failing to pursue all legal means to prosecute those who committed heinous acts. Our country would never do that to US citizens only to "them foreigners" - right? It is the disconnect I do not understand in these RWers who hate and fear the Obama administration. They justified the excesses of the Bush administration and rant about Obama. No, I'm not calling them hypocrites. My point is that maybe if executive power hadn't run hog wild the past 8 years they'd have less to worry about.

Failing to prosecute could create a precedent and we should all (right-wing, left-wing, no-wing) be concerned.

[jaysunb]

25. The most intelligent post I've read lately.

good for you !

[ProudDad]

36. I didn't

'Cause I knew he was a tool of corporate USAmerika...

[ProudDad]

38. I suspect Rahm Israel

was speaking out of turn...implying something that Obama very carefully DIDN'T SAY.

But, no matter. The foreign indictments will be enough to keep those criminals stuck in the USA...

[muryan]

163. What the hell

This website is turning to absolute shit if a comment like yours is allowed to stay.

[Seldona]

44. 'Timing is everything when it comes to prosecution?'

I thought it would be evidence? Silly me. I know, I know, for some political reason or another we cannot hold these people accountable.

Still feels bad. One can hope that the time will come when it is politically acceptable to prosecute the war-crimes of one's successor. Apparently we just aren't there yet.

I don't believe the President is carrying on any of Bush's previous illegal bs though. I just don't get that no one, not even those responsible for the policy, will be held accountable.

I guess we will have to live with a 'Truth Commission' type solution. At least the problems will be addressed going forward. The President has been good on that imo.

[Raksha]

48. Yeah, sure..."Timing is everything" and "You have to pick your battles."

Screw that...I'm not buying it, not this time! That's exactly what they said about impeachment too. It's just one more variation on the old "keeping our powder dry" theme. It means nothing more than "stall off and make excuses until everyone cools off and forgets about it," or so they hope.

Nope, not this time!

[Jackpine Radical]

49. I think you missed one obscure little detail there.

It's not just the followers of the policy who are wriggling off the hook.

Read what Snuffy said:

What about those who devised the policy, I asked? "Yeah, but those who devised the policy, he believes that they were, should not be prosecuted either," Emanuel said.

[tomm2thumbs]

53. re: one detail

There's 'devised the policy' and then there is 'authored the memos that authorized the policy itself to be devised and acted upon' - who I believe were outside the CIA who devised the policy. I think those are the people who will be at the center of this target. Obama is a constitutional lawyer so I trust his review of this over anyone on this board frankly. We are all armchair debaters without the knowledge of direct chain of command of the authorizations.

[Iowa]

70. Do your own thinking!

"Obama is a constitutional lawyer so I trust his review of this over anyone on this board frankly."

Instead of looking for other people to tell you what to think, do your own own research and draw your own conclusions. You shouldn't be "trusting" anyone to do that for you.

And don't be so impressed by a law degree. Besides, Obama is a POLITICIAN. If you will do your research, you'll find constitutional law professors who are claiming that Obama is completely full of shit on this. But it doesn't take a law degree to see that.

[tomm2thumbs]

74. yawn

[moodforaday]

143. Is yawning your typical resplnse

when asked to do some research? Or is it your typical response to people being tortured?

I'm sure Obama needs more supporters like you. You're doing a heck of a job.

[Iowa]

65. Oh for Christ's sake, knock off the ridiculous excuses...

Eight years ago the government sanctioned torture of prisoners (including children) would have been unthinkable. The Bush administration dragged this country into the dark ages and plunged the national mood into a depression via all sorts of disgusting behavior - with torture at the pinnacle. We now have an opportunity to cleanse ourselves of that vile stain, but Obama is standing in the way.

Until Obama we could delude ourselves into believing that U.S. government sanctioned torture was driven by the animals in the Bush administration - an administration that was probably unelected, no less. It was a national nightmare with an eight year shelf life that never would have occurred were it not for a dumbed-down electorate and proprietary corporate vote counting. At least that's what we told ourselves. That consolation has now been stripped away. By trying to be an appeaser, Obama is making that nightmare a permanent part of the national psyche. Gerald Ford redux (except at least with Ford we had the consolation that Nixon was forced out in disgrace, just one step ahead of the law).

In order to sleep at night there are some bugs that you smash with a great big rock until it's really, truly, completely dead, and you're damned sure that it's not coming back to bite you again. Government sanctioned torture is like that. Unfortunately, we now have a president who takes a "moderate" position on torture.

[Skittles]

115. worthy of its own thread, Iowa

:thumbsup:

[Zhade]

67. Ah, another coward willing to let criminals walk.

Your parents must be so proud.

[JDPriestly]

78. I don't think you read the OP. Emmanuel said that Obama is not

going to prosecute those who authorized the torture.

I voted for Obama because I believed he opposed torture and that he would prosecute torturers and those who violated FISA.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

117. Making excuses and projecting what the president is going to do

or not do? I have seen this line of thinking more and more on here. As the administration moves farther and farther away from prosecution, apologists say things like "yeah but he is going to do this in the end", it sounds more like wishful thinking than something based in fact. He isnt going to prosecute and now it is more obvious than ever. His chief of staff says they arent. What is so hard to understand? The administration isn't going to prosecute and they are going to pay for it politically, and I am pretty surprised they don't see that, or maybe they do and are willing to take the hit.

[Vidar]

19. 2006 all over again, except with an economic depression tossed in.

In 2006 the democratic Congress betrayed the electorate, resulting in an approval rating of 23%--lower than Bush. Now Emannuel & Obama seem to be following the same malevolent game plan.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

139. Exactly

It makes me wonder what is really going on behind the scenes. Did the Dems strike a deal? Is Obama striking the same deal in 2009. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

[Vidar]

161. Really looks that way.

[EndElectoral]

23. I must confess I'm getting a little fed up with these decisions from the WH.

[jaysunb]

24. Congress can do it's job if they want to.

They have the last word and power to impeach.

Too bad the current leaders are complicit.....

Me thinks Obama is playing this the exact right way: don't let it seem like it was his idea.

[ProudDad]

40. Impeachment doesn't enter into this

bush, cheney, rumsfeld, gonzalez, et al. are guilty of war crimes, crimes against humanity and USAmerican law.

[jaysunb]

77. Judge Bybee can be impeached

that's who I was referring to....I'm remotely aware that the others are no longer in office. :shrug:

[ProSense]

26. Axelrod contradicts Rahm

here

[Left Coast2020]

28. This has outrage written all over it. Here is what we do.

Write messages to UFPJ and other groups and ask who is interested in a MASSIVE protest over this. I am serious. If we are not going to let this get sweept under the rug then we, YES WE need to turn up the heat. Period! I am discussted. I voted for this president to uphold the Consitution--just as is it stated in his oath. He is not upholding his oath. A march on Washington may be a good reminder for him. Hey UFPJ! We need to talk to you about something!

[saigon68]

34. Little Rahmbo the "bootlick"

for certain interests

[Hissyspit]

35. That's not really a contradiction.

The best that I can tell.

[MrMickeysMom]

37. I'm pretty sure I 'm confused about the message here, after reading it-

We are a nation of laws, but having drawn a clear line that we do no longer torture, we should then believe that that a thorough investigation would take place into and all the way up the chain of command.

We are a nation of laws.

We do not torture.

Full Investigation up the flag pole and cesspool.

How can we not follow the law? Is this Animal Farm?

Lather, Rinse, Repeat...

[radhika]

29. It only took 3 months...

to end the illusion that we'd have our country back.

[soryang]

30. Good faith?????

Emmanuel is flat out dishonest and dangerous.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrMickeysMom]

39. P-leez

:eyes:

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[webDude]

41. WTF? As if he has any choice in the matter, according to ...

...treaties. This is a deal breaker. Looks like the fix is in.

[orleans]

43. if this is how obama feels about it then SHAME ON HIM!

it's like when someone starts talking all kinds of racist shit and even tho you don't agree and don't consider yourself a racist--you're hardly any better than the asshole that's talking if you keep silent. your silence basically condones their behavior/talk. same goes for obama. his silence/inaction condones this behavior.

[jennied]

45. Then let's not arrest thousands of normal citizens

they can all just say that they didn't believe they were breaking the law.

[ananda]

46. How many Obamas does it take to change a lightbulb?

None.

He only promises change.

[UpInArms]

47. well, isn't that just dandy! Let's forget about speed limits

drug laws, fraud, murder, and any other laws on any books - let's just declare the USoA a law free zone and forget about all those petty little nuisances.

F*** this shi*

:puke:

[Dinger]

50. This Won't Be Over, No Matter What Rahm Says

This IS still America. MAkes me wonder if some so-called Dems were glad the giggling murderer put so much unchecked power in one spot. Why would they reverse it? Dem or repuke, this is wrong.

[Baby Snooks]

51. Restoring our honor in the world...

Perhaps the next president will. If we survive. Barack Obama has signalled to the world that the United States is above all law.

He has invited another attack. And no doubt it will come. And who will weep for us this time? I doubt anyone will.

I voted for this man. I put my hope in this man. I walk by the wall mural each day with his picture. With the word HOPE written on it.

This country is falling the way the Roman Empire did. Hail the mighty conquerers. Until the conquered rise up.

The mural should read "Abandon all HOPE all who voted for me."

[liquid diamond]

58. Seriously

Do you think this decision will cause the downfall of America?

[JAbuchan08]

61. I'm sure the camel won't mind,

one more teensy straw, or the one after that, or the one after that. After all, every single one of those trillion straws was as light as a feather.

[Kitty Herder]

98. If we are no longer a nation of laws, we have already fallen.

This nation is bound together by principles, not by common blood or ancestry. If we lose our principles, what is left?

[nolabels]

136. The fascist corporate-government way of anything goes and the people's law of what we.......

in general all agree on. We are living a two track system where the fascists are failing more each day and just like in Hitler's day have decided to take an ever increasing space in public life. We are living like the frog in the pot of water that they are setting up to boil. We don't sense what happening very well because it's happening too incrementally slow. We don't have the rights and freedoms we had thirty or even five years ago. Much has changed but it is hard to point a finger at which outrage has been more detrimental. Though with this dictate, fascist corporate government has now said anything they do is now okay. Should of been a wake up call but it doesn't seem like it's going to be :shrug:

[yardwork]

55. I watched the same thing happen after Watergate and Iran-Contra

and that's why Cheney and Rumsfeld and even Karl Rove were still around to steal and run the two W. Bush administrations.

It didn't work then, and it won't work now. We're letting criminals go free and they will reappear in our government, if not tomorrow then a decade or two from now.

[Hissyspit]

60. Post of the Day

IMHO

[yardwork]

68. I am honored! Thank you.

[bjobotts]

90. Iran-Contra, Watergate hell...this is TORTURE we're talking about.

[bjobotts]

92. Using med people to keep 'em alive to suffer more. Horror personified

[bjobotts]

93. There ain't no forgettin'. It's beyond Obama and Holder and Rham

[bjobotts]

94. Nothing they decree or do will make this right or change the degredation of America by these monster

[bjobotts]

95. Just like there will always be nazi supporters, there will be those who want to move on

[bjobotts]

96. But we will always know what they are, and Obama becomes one of 'em by passing.

[kenfrequed]

148. Uhm

Suddenly I do not trust you.

I think this is an important issue and I think you are just racking up posts to inflate yourself artificially.

[omega minimo]

159. and we warned AT THE TIME that's what would happen, and it did and it does and it will...........

[tomm2thumbs]

57. Have Congress Nail Bush, Have Obama Pardon Him, We Move On - GOP Gets Punished

Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them as much.

That's my plan.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomm2thumbs]

116. yawn

[trthnd4jstc]

59. What a load of $hit. Rich people can break the law, when they are Republicans, and in the Executive

Branch. Is that the lesson that we need to learn?

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

62. Here's the deal

Some GodDamn Body better be prosecuted. Period. I'd like to know Who in that White House is deciding what emails the president reads.

Because obviously he hasn't been given one of my dozen or so contacts. I have lost nearly everything that matters in my life. For almost the entire Bush presidency I lived in fear. I have been monitored in ways that are not only illegal but violate the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I have been threatened, my mother has been terrorized, (I have proof) I have been terrorized, I have been nearly destroyed physically, emotionally, and spiritually, And I have been tortured.

People on DU don't have to believe me. I am not asking you to. But this bullshit from this administration and their unwillingness to prosecute and jail the worst offenders of our constitution and the rule of law ever, is immoral.


I continue to be tortured - see the statement by Susan Crawford - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011303372.html

"We tortured Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution.


. "The techniques they used were all authorized, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent. . . . You think of torture, you think of some horrendous physical act done to an individual. This was not any one particular act; this was just a combination of things that had a medical impact on him, that hurt his health. It was abusive and uncalled for. And coercive. Clearly coercive. It was that medical impact that pushed me over the edge" to call it torture, she said.


There are things I could tell you that would sicken every one of you about the things that have been done to me physically and by the use of psychological manipulation that even GITMO prisoners have not endured. Even in the worse offenses that we have read about in the Red Cross Report and the Torture Memos, these people have had down time. That has not been the case in my life.


If there are people here that want to believe or think I'm just a mental case and should be treated as one, I invite you to face me not on this impersonal message board but in person - face to face.


Don't expect me to to give you reasons or details of what, when, where, and why this has happened to me. That too would blow you away, but the cowards that do know and have done nothing would fill a small town. Names of some all here would recognize.

[Zhade]

66. Oh? Then I'm fucking done with him.

Fucking COWARD.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lilith Velkor]

72. !

[Voice for Peace]

91. fuck that. he needs to be questioned and challenged about this relentlessly

until he can give a good accounting as to why they should not be held accountable to the rule of law as everyone else is such as simple humble people who smoke a little pot and I am really losing respect for him on this account.

[Voice for Peace]

97. Comments for the prez: 202-456-1111

I will not vote for him again unless he can give a satisfactory explanation for not upholding the rule of law in this regard.

[Hard2believe]

100. Dejected

I have been away from this site for some time. I must agree with the sentiment of most here. This is shocking and has me totally bewildered.

I had so much faith in this new president. Now, I see that the old guard is still pulling the strings. This is a disgrace. I will not vote to re-elect either. I am tuning out the news after all this. Jonathan Turley must be livid.

[Piewhacket]

102. There is no "satisfactory" explanation, only despicable ones.

Its now pretty plain,
Obama doesn't believe in individual civil rights.
He doesn't think the Constitution limits the government.


I'm changing my sig.

[empyreanisles]

99. God, this board is full of self-righteous blowhards.

President Obama is doing an outstanding job. So go ahead and bitch about your little disappointments while real, TANGIBLE change moves ahead in the next 4 years.

You'll still be complaining about how the world isn't perfect yet.

[bigjohn16]

101. That "little disappointment" is the President giving a pass to torturers.

This will be a stain on his Presidency and it shows to the world that America has no problem with ignoring the rule of law. He is letting war criminals walk away for political convenience.

[totodeinhere]

103. Obama has to operate in the real world.

And in the real world you have to take political convenience into account or you and your policies won't last very long.

[bigjohn16]

104. It's bigger than President Obama.

Prosecuting war criminal is the real world letting them walk is a nightmare.

[EFerrari]

106. You betchur @ss. And if that real tangible change is for the worse,

whoa Nellie, I plan to bitch up a storm. :)

[empyreanisles]

107. Fair enough, if its based on policy.

I just won't stand for people sitting here calling him a war criminal and a coward. Just tooting their own horns.

[EFerrari]

108. These are the internets. Name calling is some people's way

of saying "have a nice day". :)

[tomm2thumbs]

118. They won't be talking about this in a month, they'll have moved on to the next issue - watch

This all just leftover outrage that was never properly directed at the real persons at fault - Bush-Cheney. All these pitiful folks sitting in their little rooms behind their little screens pretending to run the world 'their way' - I'd do this, or I'd do that. What a laugh. Maybe they need to answer one important question.

If you are so smart, how come you ain't President?

Blowhards is right.

[Bluenorthwest]

126. I myself swore an oath before God to oppose torture

at age 14 at a place called Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. I have done so for probably longer than you've lived.
You stand with Bushco, and slap them on the back. That is the karma you are picking, for you and for yours! Enjoy.

[tomm2thumbs]

132. thank you for those comments - appreciate the support

[omega minimo]

158. It's also full of a lot of phony troublemakers who don't know how obvious they are.

[muryan]

164. Luckily most of these blowhards are nothing more than keyboard warriors

When freepers see black, they see white. I'll continue living in gray with the rest of the world

[omega minimo]

110. Strategeritsts RULE!!!!!111

:yourock:

[Steely_Dan]

112. How Disappointing

Excuse me for saying this, but I don't think a President Biden would have let this go.

-P

[Wizard777]

113. Will Obama be issuing Pardons? Otherwise the decisions he has made are more properly made by a Jury

What Obama is doing now is more properly called obstruction of justice. Well It was a nice dream while it lasted.

[Loudmxr]

114. Yeah and who believes him? We will wait and see.

There are statutes of limitations to consider but some of those crimes have REALLY long statutes. I would rather see health care first.

[democrank]

119. Oh, so now it`s okay for people "in good faith"

to commit war crimes?

[Wizard777]

120. So for all intents and purposes they are effectively above the law.

They may not be theoretically above the law. Since there is no practicum associated to this theory. They are in effect above the law. You know what they say, Caveat Emptor. If it sounds too good to be true.......

[tclambert]

121. "America does not torture." - Barack Obama.

"But, you know, we don't actually prosecute anyone who does torture, wink wink nudge nudge, so if you do torture, you will get away with it." - also Barack Obama.

America is a lesser nation today, its greatness blemished, its future diminished.

:cry:

[Bluenorthwest]

124. In good faith?

These are amoral people devoid of humanity. I do not support the President's desrire to forgive the worst criminal activity in the history of this nation. Obama is sworn to defend our Constitution and if he refuses to do so, he should resign like a mature adult.

[Mad_Dem_X]

127. Damn it!

These sons-of-bitches will never be prosecuted for their crimes! This is just unacceptable. I am very, VERY disappointed with Obama right now.

[deacon]

129. It makes him a failure. I was a fan until this. Without the rule of law, there is no change.

You failed Mr. President. Wing it. Do it on your own.

[RedCloud]

130. Prescott, Bush I, Bush II to get away with treason.

You know what would happen if the shoe were on the other foot.

[Time for change]

131. Hopefully, Emanuel was will have to retract this or just be over-ruled

And if we're really lucky maybe he'll have to resign for some reason.

[florida08]

133. So far

Obama has upheld the Bush policies in:

Extraordinary Rendition (claiming state secrets privilege)
Warrantless Wiretaps (sovereign immunity)
and now this. I voted for him but it looks like a one hit wonder. Spending trillions to save Wall Street isn't endearing him to democrats or republicans either. I don't see universal health care in its true form happening either. Have defended him in the past but done with that. Am tired of getting pissed on.

No Amnesty for Torturers
<http://www.democrats.com/no-amnesty-for-torturers>

Phone and Email and fax the Office of the Attorney General at 202-514-2001 [e-mail] fax:[phone] to request a Special Prosecutor to investigate and prosecute any and all government officials who have participated in war crimes.

[mvd]

150. Thanks

I'm glad there's something I can do.

[florida08]

152. we can try

:fistbump:

[4dsc]

134. K&R if you find this unacceptable!!

This is BS.. You can rest assured that if Republicans had the chance to turn the tables and prosecute a democrat, they would!! Fucking unacceptable!!

[disndat]

135. Even Bush put Lyndie England in jail

Lyndie and her lover were only doing what they were told. Obama should release her right away with apologies.

[florida08]

137. ditto that

[mvd]

149. I thought Obama would at least not rule out going after the higher-ups

I didn't expect it to happen immediately, but I thought there would be an evasive answer. Does this mean that even if a special prosecutor finds evidence against Bush/Cheney/et al, Obama's DOJ still won't do anything?

I mean, it just gets worse with the waterboarded two 9/11 suspects 266 times story.

[fascisthunter]

151. because of people like Rahm, we live in a dictatorship

when you give people in government a pass, you are essentially placing government above any law and in turn oppressing the people. Ordinary people get prosecuted but Presidents and government officials don't....

I will walk away from this political party. Will always be a liberal, and I will help progressives get elected, but that is all. The rest of the democratic party can go to hell if this is Obama's intent.

[Hard2believe]

153. Some people actually don't seem to care

and are now pointing the finger at those of us that are completely and utterly disappointed with Mr Obama and his decision. With this total absence of allowing prosecution, how on earth can anyone morally convict any person that commits any crime no matter what it is from now on? If these people can get away with war crimes what is there to stop the guy that killed the three cops a few weeks back from saying he was carrying out orders but that he could not disclose because of national intelligence issues the names of those involved. He may not even have to go that route. He may just cop some defense where an astute lawyer may use this existing lack of prosecution of crimes as the basis of for a defense.

With this ruling or projected ruling, does this make all of those Japanese soldiers, the Goering's of the world, the Eichmann's all illegally executed because they were following the law?

[mdmc]

154. welcome to du

peace and low stress

[Reform]

157. I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE

Legalize the constitution damn it
What the hell is wrong with America?
This ain't America i grew up knowing, we want to talk about fixing Americas image around the world?
People around the world are going to see right through this as being contempt.
Write letters, email, phone your representatives, tell them how you feel, let them know the people run America not the other way around.
What will the future say about this as well?, how will this be looked upon?

[ChiciB1]

160. I'm SICK Of Excuses, SICK Of Rationalization, SICK Of Lies, Sick Of Thinking

we are a country of LAWS & RULES! WE ARE A SICK COUNTRY! And too many people just don't give a tinker's damn!! I'm FAST, very FAST becoming one who simply want OUT!!

But where do I go?? Say what you will, try to figure it out and cover the stuff with icing, for me some shit still STINKS!!

JMHO!

[wroberts189]

166. Watch what he does ..not what he says. He is playing high stakes poker.

He released the memos ... think...

Holder is talking special prosecutor ..it does not need be Obama leading the charge...