European Nations May Investigate Bush Officials Over Prisoner Treatment

[denem]

Source: Washington Post

BERLIN, April 21 -- European prosecutors are likely to investigate CIA and Bush administration officials on suspicion of violating an international ban on torture if they are not held legally accountable at home, according to U.N. officials and human rights lawyers...

Some European countries, under a legal principle known as universal jurisdiction, have adopted laws giving themselves the authority to investigate torture, genocide and other human rights crimes anywhere in the world, even if their citizens are not involved. While it is rare for prosecutors to win such cases, those targeted can face arrest if they travel abroad.

Martin Scheinin, the U.N. special investigator for human rights and counterterrorism, said the interrogation techniques approved by the Bush administration clearly violated international law. He said the lawyers who wrote the Justice Department memos, as well as senior figures such as former vice president Richard B. Cheney, will probably face legal trouble overseas if they avoid prosecution in the United States.

"Torture is an international crime irrespective of the place where it is committed. Other countries have an obligation to investigate," Scheinin said in a telephone interview from Cairo. "This may be something that will be haunting CIA officials, or Justice Department officials, or the vice president, for the rest of their lives."

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/21/AR2009042103742.html

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[tridim]

2. It's must really suck to be a Bush Official right now

:bounce:

[Canuckistanian]

20. Their world just got a little smaller

Ideally it should be reduced to a 8X15' room - with bars.

[No Elephants]

52. Aren't solitary cells smaller than that? You know, for their own safety and all.

[No Elephants]

49. It always sucked. Now, though, they MAY be starting to get that. Since they are so

deeply in denial, rationalization and self-justification, though, maybe not.

This is the fun part of their being so fundie (well, some of them--the rest faked it). They believe in burning in Hell for eternity.

[merh]

3. K&R

"This may be something that will be haunting CIA officials, or Justice Department officials, or the vice president, for the rest of their lives."

[Midniteagle]

4. I Am..........

doing the dance of joy right now !!! And so it begins for our old gop friends !!!

[corpseratemedia]

5. Pandora

meet box!

[Loki]

6. And so it shall come to pass, hopefully in my lifetime.........

"the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice”.

[defendandprotect]

7. "Other countries have an obligation to investigate" . . . !!! I agree ---!!!

Manfred Nowak, another senior U.N. official who investigates torture claims, said the Obama administration is violating terms of the U.N. Convention Against Torture by effectively granting amnesty to CIA interrogators. He said the United States, as a signatory to the treaty, is legally obligated to investigate suspected cases of torture. He also said Washington must provide compensation to torture victims, including al-Qaeda leaders who were waterboarded.

"One cannot buy the argument anymore that this does not amount to torture," he said. "These memos are nothing but an attempt to circumvent the absolute prohibition on torture."

Nowak, an Austrian law professor based in Vienna, acknowledged that there is no mechanism in the anti-torture treaty to punish governments that ignore its provisions. From a political standpoint, he said, it is more important for the White House or Congress to authorize an independent commission to conduct a public examination of how terrorism suspects were treated after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

"I still have full trust in the Obama administration to do the right thing," he said in a telephone interview from Bangkok. "It is more important for the United States to overcome a dark chapter in its history."

------------------------------------

Torture and wiretapping are probably the two most important issues we need to address
to get heads screwed on straight in the military and CIA and throughout all of government
about the Geneva Accords and re-educating officers and troops, stressing that this government supports the Geneva Accords. We should also remember that our Constitution bars cruel and
unusual punishment. We also need to look into our own prisons and find out what is going on
there.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

36. I wish Obama would hold the Bush administration accountable...he'd win again in 2012 if he did.

[Hotler]

44. Dark chapters we have.

"It is more important for the United States to overcome a dark chapter in its history." I can think of about 3-4 more chapters that should be opened up, and I bet you would find a member of the Bush family in it knee deep.

[No Elephants]

50. Amazing how consistent they are, isn't it?

[Dragonfli]

8. K&R

[ixion]

9. good. They must face justice if we're ever to regain our international standing

indict. implicate. imprison.

[No Elephants]

56. Our international standing turned into Humpty Dumpty some time between JFK and Obama. Obama may

have personal popularity, but I doubt our international standing will never be back to what it once was. It's like the Wizard of Oz or a magic trick. Once you move the curtain aside or learn the secret, you're not in awe anymore. You cannot unring a bell.

I apologize for the number of similes and metaphors I packed into this post.















.

[KaryninMiami]

10. Why not both? I say, let's procecute them here, then ship them over and let them have a go at it.

Then, we collectively assign them to a new location- perhaps we can spruce up Abugrabe and send them there for a long vacation complete with watergames, pyramid photo ops, insect olympics- what fun! And I think Dick and W should share a cell- I mean bunk.

[babylonsister]

11. I hope they are haunted. Cheney sounds like he might be. nt

[Demeter]

13. You're Confusing Paranoia with Remorse

He's sorry he didn't take over the dictatorship.

[babylonsister]

14. Well, I hope he's paranoid, and hope that

doesn't help his health problems; a dictatorship is no longer possible. Time's up.

I do hope he's miserable.

[Demeter]

15. How Could He Not Be?

Just being Big Dick has got to suck.(all puns intended)

[No Elephants]

51. Good one. Except I think Cheney liked being the power behind the commode, er, throne.

On edit. I just got why they call that the Number 2 spot!

[stillcool]

16. it seems like Cheney was just trying..

to get out in front of the shit-storm.

[No Elephants]

55. Hard to stay in front of a shit storm with so many fans around.

[alittlelark]

12. Sounds like plan that will keep 'Obamas hands clean'

We only saw the public meetings.

I hope I am right.

[No Elephants]

53. Refusing to prosecute keeps Obama's hands clean? I would say the opposite. However, it is

better for other countries to prosecute for other reasons.

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. We got them same laws up here; but then again, we also got Harper, a PNAC wannabe . .

.
.

On edit - a quote, and a link for the curious

"Universal jurisdiction, which allows Canada to prosecute any individual present in Canada for crimes listed in the CAHWCA - regardless of that individual's nationality or where the crimes were committed"

regardless of that individual's nationality or where the crimes were committed

That would include GW Bush and his gang methinks . . .

link


(sigh)

[Vidar]

18. Thank you, Europe. The US can no longer be trusted to don anything right.

[tomm2thumbs]

19. they will LOVE to give Bush-Cheney a big ol going away gift - from the heart

Those people are so nice to do that for them. First the Statue of Liberty and now this - (sigh)

[No Elephants]

54. He already got a nice pair of shoes.

[NRaleighLiberal]

21. ... More change I can believe in...

[Soylent Brice]

22. "...those targeted can face arrest if they travel abroad."

* will never leave his gated mecca if this shit goes down.

cowards, all of them.

[Mari333]

23. release the hounds!! nt

[Mudoria]

24. Wow..

"Some European countries, under a legal principle known as universal jurisdiction, have adopted laws giving themselves the authority to investigate torture, genocide and other human rights crimes anywhere in the world, even if their citizens are not involved."

So basically they can decide to give themselves jurisdiction over other areas as well if they feel like it, not just human rights. That's a scary thought. The possibilities could be endless.

[BlueJessamine]

25. European Nations May Investigate Bush Officials Over Prisoner Treatment

Source: The Washington Post

BERLIN, April 21 -- European prosecutors are likely to investigate CIA and Bush administration officials on suspicion of violating an international ban on torture if they are not held legally accountable at home, according to U.N. officials and human rights lawyers.

Many European officials and civil liberties groups said they were disappointed by President Obama's opposition to trials of CIA interrogators who subjected terrorism suspects to waterboarding and other harsh tactics. They said the release last week of secret U.S. Justice Department memos authorizing the techniques will make it easier for foreign prosecutors to open probes if U.S. officials do not.

Some European countries, under a legal principle known as universal jurisdiction, have adopted laws giving themselves the authority to investigate torture, genocide and other human rights crimes anywhere in the world, even if their citizens are not involved. Although it is rare for prosecutors to win such cases, those targeted can face arrest if they travel abroad.

Martin Scheinin, the U.N. special investigator for human rights and counterterrorism, said the interrogation techniques approved by the Bush administration clearly violated international law. He said the lawyers who wrote the Justice Department memos, as well as senior figures such as former vice president Richard B. Cheney, will probably face legal trouble overseas if they avoid prosecution in the United States.

"Torture is an international crime irrespective of the place where it is committed. Other countries have an obligation to investigate," Scheinin said in a telephone interview from Cairo. "This may be something that will be haunting CIA officials, or Justice Department officials, or the vice president, for the rest of their lives."



Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/21/AR2009042103742.html?hpid=topnews

[Vidar]

26. Nuremberg prison would be a particularly approprate destination for Cheney et al.

[Diclotican]

39. Vidar

Vidar

Sorry enough, the Spandau Prison, where they who wasn't hang in 1946 exist no longer. It was been tearing down in 1988-89 after Rudolf Hess died.... Even that some plans was setting it out as a place to remember - for what the nazis was doing and where many of the guilty one was been hold after setencing...

But we can always dream of the day when Cheney and CO are been hold in prison for a LONG time.. Then I might believe that many of the neo-conservative and other supporters would have a reason to cry baby all the time... evilgrin:

Diclotican:

[Vidar]

48. Thanks for the information.

[Diclotican]

58. Vidar

Vidar

By all means, but even that The Spandau prison is not there anymore - Germany have others, more modern prison, where members of your former republican administration is more than welcome - on a more permament basis

Diclotican

[Wizard777]

27. Bring it on! Lets roll!

:hi: :fistbump: :pals: :applause: :headbang: :yourock: :headbang: :applause: :pals: :fistbump: :pals: :hi:

[BlueJessamine]

33. Hi Wizard!

:fistbump:

[Wizard777]

42. Yes we can meets together we can.......change the world for the better.

:fistbump: :hi:

[Soylent Brice]

28. i love the snowball effect.

[Iowa]

29. Don't you just love the euphemisms and slant?

"Many European officials and civil liberties groups said they were disappointed by President Obama's opposition to trials of CIA interrogators who subjected terrorism suspects to waterboarding and other harsh tactics."

1) "officials and civil liberties groups" instead of "citizens of all nations including the U.S.".
2) "disappointed" instead of "sickened".
3) "interrogators" instead of "torturers".
4) "terrorism suspects" instead of "prisoners and children".
5) "harsh tactics" instead of "torture".

Euphemisms and slant are powerful weapons against the truth. Imagine how different things would be if the press actually reported the truth:

Citizens of all nations (including the U.S.) are sickened by President Obama's opposition to trials of CIA torturers who subjected prisoners and children to torture.

The US press, with only a few exceptions, is nothing but a propaganda tool.

[Bragi]

30. Yep, this cat is well out of the bag...

Nice to see.

[No Elephants]

31. Is this news? Did anyone in the world think England and her beau devised

tortures designed to be especially odious and humiliating to Muslim men?

[Ian David]

32. If you have friends in Europe...

... ask them to find people to hire Bush officials for speaking engagements there.

[bvar22]

34. Ring ... Ring ... Ring.

Hello?

Mrs. Cheney?

I am happy to inform you that you AND your husband have just won...

...AN EXPENSES PAID LUXURY VACATION at one of Europe's most exclusive Mediterranean Resorts....

[Diclotican]

40. Ian David

Ian David

I am afraid, if some of the top leaders in the Bush administration was coming to Europe - even more friendly one like Poland, they would bee meet by massive protest by most europeans.. Mr Bush and the rest of the administration are in no way popular by most european, who was just to glad to se the back of mr Bush and CO at 20 january 2009.. And I for one was just happy to se what happened 4 november, when Mr Obama was elected President.. And I was more than just "happy" to se the faces of all this right wing propaganda channels who was experiencing the ultimate hurt.. A democratic President Elect. Who also was black. It was just amazing to se how some of them was trying, their best to keep the tight upper lip.. The brits have at least a couple of hundred years to be doing that... This maggots was just trembling all over the way.... nice to se it then;)

But, if some of the Bush officials was coming to Europe - to engagements here I am little afraid that they would not in country where they can be hold accountable. Or at least on diplomat pas.. We know that mr Rumsfeld when he was last in Europe had to more or less run from France to Germany because a court wanted him for something.. And an arrest order was almost written for his arrest.. This was in 2004-05 I believe.. And in Germany, he was polite asked to leave as fast as he could, he was not exactly welcome there either.. Even that the diplomatic word was different it was no mistake what the then german government wanted..
And after that I do not mr Rumsfeld have been in Europe either..

Diclotican

[Ian David]

43. That's the point. Lure them to Europe to be detained and tried. n/t

[Diclotican]

45. Ian David

Ian David

Ironic that Europe was there to prosecute americans - who in the 1940s was instrumental in prosecuting our criminal.. And now it is time for Europe to do the same to the criminals in US... i HOPE that is the case then..

Diclotican

[Mithreal]

35. We'll be very lucky if we don't get a whitewash like the 9/11 Commission.

Unless the judge and jury were Iraqis, I don't think Bush will come close to justice.

I want to be wrong.

[aceofspades]

41. I'm with Johnathan Turley on this one

He highlighted the importance of a special prosecutor yesterday. Independent bipartisan commissions don't inspire my confidence at all either.

[jwirr]

37. They should do what we cannot. Investigate those secret prisons

in their own countries - open it up to truth. Who authorized them? Who ran them? What happened to the prisoners in those prisons?

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

38. They already have - read it here

http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?Link=/CommitteeDocs/2006/20060606_Ejdoc162006PartII-FINAL.htm


Enjoy!

[jimshoes]

46. Here's hoping for a big dose

of mega karma right about now.

[MasonJar]

47. I certainly hope so. Let them all be come pariahs. May they never breathe another

positive breath. And let them keep their sorry a--es in the good ole USA, so they cannot further embarrass us abroad. This should include W and Condi and the whole bunch of torture evil doers.

[No Elephants]

57. I am willing to be embarrassed abroad. However, Dummya never left the US until after he became

President. (That's how ridiculous a man we elected POTUS.) So, why on earth would he leave now?

Don't know about Cheney's travel habits.

BTW, I have full onfidene they can further embarrass us abroad even if no one named Bush or Cheney ever leaves this country again. They have these things now called wire services, TV, radio and interwebs. We're screwn no matter where these guys are, so we may just as well let 'em get tried abroad. It may be the only way to purge their curse.

[Kaleko]

59. Kicking

[KansDem]

60. K&R, even though I'm outside the 24-hour period...(nt)