New Plan: Cable Boxes Track Viewers, Gather Data

[HopeHoops]

Source: WGAL - Harrisburg, PA

PHILADELPHIA, Pa. -- A House subcommittee is holding a hearing today on plans by cable companies to roll out targeted advertising.


The hearing will focus on concerns that the new tactic will infringe on consumer privacy. The companies plan to use digital set-top boxes to collect data and direct ads more targeted to individual household preferences.




Read more: http://www.wgal.com/technology/19260470/detail.html

---

Yet another "Minority Report" scheme to add to the grocery store "Bonus Cards", Google Chrome, RFID chips, and every other freakin' way to track people.

[RoyGBiv]

1. Well, yeah, but here's the thing ...

Why this is being overlooked, I dunno.

They can already do it. All they're talking about here is actually doing something with the info gathered.

[Frosty cupcake]

20. Absolutely

Frankly, I would prefer to watch Barnes and Noble, Ben and Jerry's or The Nation ads over ads for Viagra or Pampers or Depends.

[Ian David]

24. I just want the Girls Gone Wild ad. n/t

[Catshrink]

51. The Girls Gone Wild ad was aired during a the Vatican's Good Friday service.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/11/girls-gone-wild-ad-interr_n_185877.html

:rofl:

[Ian David]

52. I heard about that. (and only one person complained) Awesome! n/t

[primavera]

53. I wonder if they correctly infer...

... from the fact that I only watch commercial-free channels that my marketing preference is for them to go Cheney themselves.

[n2doc]

2. Hell Orwell got it right in "1984" n/t

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. Been hearing these little "pops" of audio in between ads?

And in between segments of shows like American Idol? Tracking hardware listens for them and send the info back to the advertisers tracking source for processing. Something is listening in, somewhere... are they only listening to Neilsen homes or could this be more widespread with these digital cable boxes?

[mwb970]

18. Come again?

What is it you say they are listening to? I am not familiar with "pops" of audio.

[Cronus Protagonist]

19. Listen closely in between each ad, and each singer on Idol

You'll hear a soft "pop", sometimes several of them... they sound almost like an editing error, but they are not, they are tracking audibles. I just wonder where the microphones are that are recording these. I'm hoping it's only in Neilsen set top boxes, but I suspect they're being used elsewhere... and that's a STRONG suspicion, given I'm in the TV business.

[snooper2]

27. "they sound almost like an editing error, but they are not, they are tracking audibles"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


They are listening to you- I love Charmin, that bear is just so cute- feed data back to Charmin headquarters- beep beep, 20,789 like add, 1,987 say stupid fucking ad...beep beep...tranmitting, beep...continue circulation of ad...beep beep- pop

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Cronus Protagonist]

29. I guess you don't know about all the tracking that is going on now?

I handle TV ads all day every day. I know a lot more than you about the business. For instance, look up VEIL encoding and be enlightened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Encoded_Invisible_Light

While Wiki doesn't mention it, VEIL technology is currently used to track the delivery of advertising broadcast through the air and also cable, Internet and satellite. It not only allows for remote DRM, but it also allows set top tracking devices to record which VEIL encoded spots are delivered to that user. The ad industry uses VEIL currently to track penetration levels and ad delivery counts. This is in place today. And VEIL is not the only technology that is currently in use.

Personally, I don't care about ad delivery tracking like this because it's not, as of yet and as far as we know, being used for anything other than determining if the TV channel is delivering the penetration numbers they claim.

By the way, are you still laughing?

[jberryhill]

33. Yes, I'm laughing.....

Having the set top box respond to VEIL signals is retarded, since the set top box already knows what channel it is tuned to and receiving. Why on earth would you need to loop that information - already known to the box - back through a superfluous Rube Goldberg scheme?

Again, if you have digital cable, the box already knows what channel you are watching.

[Cronus Protagonist]

40. Ah, good points

There are several reasons for doing it. First and foremost is verification of viewership. Secondly, proof of delivery in a given market.

People flick around TV channels all the time, as you know, and particularly when the ads are on. The issue is more complicated than you might initially think because recording which channel someone was one for only 2 seconds or so is cumbersome and more invasive than simply tracking for image encoding (VEIL) which shows that the ad was actually on the screen long enough for the VEIL encoded message to be read. VEIL is independent of all the thousands of small cable companies and TV broadcasters worldwide, which is why this is used rather than a remote control button press tracker, which would only work in one tiny market at a time. They need worldwide tracking that is independent. Hence the attraction of encoding the tracking into the broadcast itself.

Audio embedding of tracking information gives better info than just VEIL alone. In both cases, the tracking is not done by the cable company, but an independent party. Additionally, if/when the media is copied, excerpted, made into a DVD and so on, as with people who have a computer or media center attached to the cable, the VEIL won't be read by the set top box because the media is on a different delivery system. The audio tracking can still be "heard" by a tracker no matter what the delivery system is, or even if the copy is stripped of its image and only the audio is used.

It's not perfect, but they're getting better and better at gathering, slicing and dicing data. Soon you're going to get ads when you click your remote, as you know. You're also going to have childrens toys that can read the VEIL encoding and change their sounds, actions and such like, according to what's on the screen. Same goes for the audio content. It truly is a brave new world out there.

[jberryhill]

47. Nonsense

The notion that people can change channels "too fast" for the converter box doing the channel changing is absurd. VEIL is a low bit rate technology (for the obvious reason that running a high-bandwidth optical channel through the TV screen would defeat the purpose of displaying a picture) in the first place.

But the essential point is that the converter box knows - right down to the millisecond - what channel it is tuning. If it didn't, it couldn't tune the freaking channel.

Within your general gobbledegook, though, you also seem to suggest that there is some other device than the cable box involved? And it is reporting back to the mother ship... how?

[jberryhill]

35. Same dumb idea as the VEIL thing you suggest downthread....

The hardware doesn't have to "listen for pops".

The hardware already knows the channel that is being watched, and what time it is.

Why would it need some sort of analog output feedback loop. That's ridiculous.

[Cronus Protagonist]

41. You are naiive

That's OK, it's understandable. See my recent post for more detailed info on why it's not ONLY tracked at the cable company. And the question of "why" is already answered, and since they're already implemented several systems, and VEIL is already in place and being used right now, it's also a moot question.

[mwb970]

43. Perhaps you are making sense here, but I don't get it.

I've read each of your posts multiple times, and I can't make heads or tails out of any of them. I'm an electronics engineer and have some knowledge in this area, but it doesn't seem to be helping. All I can think of is that you are inadvertently leaving out critical setup or connecting information that would make what you say coherent and comprehensible in a technical sense. Again, you may very well be totally right in whatever you're saying, but I'll be damned if I can make out what it is.

The VEIL article on Wikipedia says it was developed to communicate with Batman toys. I assume this is connected with your thesis in some way.

:shrug:

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. Sorry I can't make it more clear

And VEIL was NOT developed to communicate with Batman toys. It was developed initially as a tracking device, also to be used in the future for DRM if they can ever get a standard on it. The same type of thing was also implemented in online image tracking where key information is embedded into the images as watermarks or using Steganography. Try using an unlicensed image from Corbis and see what happens!

The toy thing it a new concept, but entirely possible and no doubt is coming to a home near you this Christmas. Wiki isn't perfect, but it's easy to read.

[mwb970]

61. You are one confusing dude, Dude.

You refer people who can't figure out what the hell you're talking about to a Wikipedia article containing this:

The technology was developed for transmitting data from the video on screen (originally used on The Batman) to a line of Batman toys based on the series, supplying them with information about the series and unlocking their hidden capabilities.

The footnote for this statement leads to this article:

WARNER BROS. CONSUMER PRODUCTS, MATTEL AND VEIL TECHNOLOGY ANNOUNCE FIRST-EVER TRULY INTERACTIVE TELEVISION TOY LINE
(press release)

Warner Bros. Consumer Products (WBCP) announced today that it has partnered with its master toy licensee, Mattel, Inc. (NYSE:MAT), and VEIL Interactive Technologies to merge action figure and vehicle play with interactive television to create the next generation of entertainment. The technology, exclusive to WBCP and Mattel for 2004, represents the first time a toy line will use the technology to enhance both the toy and TV experience.

VEIL (Video Encoded Invisible Light) technology transmits encoded digital data-- in the form of graphics, storyline components, gadgets and other features--directly from the recently announced "The Batman" animated series. The encoded data, captured exclusively by Mattel's new line of Batwave children's toys based on the series, unlocks new capabilities in the toys and provides more information about the show and its characters. "The Batman" animated series and Mattel's VEIL-enabled toys will debut this Fall.

When I point out that the reference you cited says that VEIL was developed for use with Batman toys, you say:

And VEIL was NOT developed to communicate with Batman toys. It was developed initially as a tracking device, also to be used in the future for DRM if they can ever get a standard on it.

:shrug:

Clearly, there is something wrong with your ability to communicate your odd ideas. Please excuse me if I don't get all excited about your paranoia!

:eyes:

[jberryhill]

45. EE degrees here too - he's not making sense

His argument is premised on the idea that the cable box doesn't know what channel it is tuned to.

That's ridiculous.

Yeah, there is a massive secret ad delivery verification system going on, involving devices other than the converter box.

Apparently, your child's teddy bear is reporting back to Procter & Gamble.

[TheMadMonk]

59. No, that the cable box can't know what free to air channel...

...is being watched. Or what you recorded last night. Or what you might be watching on another delivery system.

As for the "responsive" toys. It's not hard to imagine a scenario of these toys only doing something particularly interesting when a particular ad comes on TV. How long before the child associates Product X with toy behaviour Y and starts clamouring for said product. Then when sales indicate penetration/success, switch the "blips" to another product and repeat.

Ad companies have already demonstrated how willing they are to manipulate children. These toys have the potential to take such manipulation to Orwellian heights.

[Gormy Cuss]

4. Longer description at Salon.com

http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/scitech/2009/04/22/D97NMHF03_us_tec_cable_ads_privacy/

They want to add POP UP ads that send promotions if a cable subscriber hits a button on the remote. The cable company will then use the name and address on record-- unclear whether they would be forwarding the info to advertisers or acting on their behalf.

[Duer 157099]

49. Just as long as they include a "fuck you" button on the remote

So I can register my honest opinions...

[Gormy Cuss]

57. I'll ask them how much they plan on paying me for the use of my contact data.

Companies routinely pay each other to "rent" customer lists for the purpose of marketing, so I think a payment to customers is in order too. Fair's fair.

I have no objection to aggregate data for targeted marketing but once my name or address is attached to it they've crossed the line in my book.

[shanti]

5. good luck with that

because i never watch the ads! i either tape the shows and ff thru the ads or i pause the live event and when the ad is over i ff to the show. boo on them!

[HopeHoops]

6. I don't get cable

by my own choice, of course.

[shanti]

63. you could tivo

your shows, alternately, and that doesn't require cable. no reason to watch commercials if you don't want to...you CAN control what you watch.

[tomm2thumbs]

7. I actually fast forward through the shows and only watch the ads

uh, ok - sarcasm, but you can fast forward through this post

[Blue For You]

8. Dumped cable/satellite years ago. If they can gather info

through my rooftop antenna, well, go right ahead...LOL

[MindPilot]

31. Actually they can.

In England where you have to have a license to own a TV, they have vans equipped with detection equipment used to find unlicensed TVs. The equipment can detect if a television is on and probably what station it's tuned to.

[Blue For You]

34. Wow, interesting. The TV police!

[Cronus Protagonist]

42. Yeah, they can also tell what show you're watching and in which room the TV is situated

I used to have to turn the TV off whenever I saw one of these vans cruising the neighborhood. Now they claim to be able to tell if you have a TV even if it's turned off!

[superconnected]

9. This really will help cable die altogether.

Every year it gets thousand less viewers because they prefer the internet only.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

11. The cable execs do seem to not understand their customers, don't they?

They just aren't very bright. Even in my 40s, I am amazed at how many businesses and industries are run by utterly stupid people.

If not for high speed internet access, we'd dropped Comcast a long time ago. As it is now, we are dropping to the most basic of cable (ten channels or whatever). That plus internet access is cheaper than internet access alone with Comcast. Our city is looking into a city-wide WiFi plan and Qwest is starting to offer DSL in the area, so soon we will have competitive options.

[Fumesucker]

56. That's because getting to the top in business has very little to do

With being able to run a company well and a great deal to do with your political ability and who you know/are related to.

A really strong social networking group is of more utility in business than a strong resume.

[onenote]

55. because using the internet doesn't give anyone info about you?

You're kidding right?

[Grinchie]

10. For a Real Background on why this sucks, Watch "Century of the Self"

On Google video.

When people stop thinking like a simple minded child, they will eventually realize that the more information gathered on the General population, the more opportunities for control are handed over to Government and Corporatate entities. Since we now understand that Corporations, Governments and Lawayers are all working together to "Maintain" society, i.e. shape opinion to believe that uncontrolled growth and consumption is an acceptable thing on a tiny planet with finite resources, allowing them unfettered access into out viewing habits is just another infiltrations into our mass consciousness.

Sure it has great opportunities, but given the free wheeling nature and uncontrolled avarice of the Major Corporations, along with the track record of the blatant manipulation of the Mass Media by Government and Corporate interests, they are not trustworthy enough to be given this potential wealth of data.

Most likely, the data collection was developed by Poindexter as part of Total Information Awareness program started in the early 2000's, which was flushed down the memory hole and forgotten by the mass media, and is now ready to be given to the Corporate buddies after we paid for the development of the crucial infrastructure under cover of the Patriot Act, National Security and other veiled means of getting us to pay for our further enslavement to the whims of the Corporations.

If people don't realize how mutually dependant Corporations and Government are, just take a look at AIG. Assume that they new all about new regulations ahead, but decided to fabricate an economic event such as the one we are seeing right now. Just how credible and widespread would this threat of economic disruption be, when a company like AIG has it's tentacles everywhere.

How about Tyson chicken deciding to stop processing chickens for a week, due to any number of seemingly valid events, such as outbreak of some disease or willful shutdown. When one looks at the ripple effect such event would cause, you will realize that they can easily blackmail the government, and shape opinion to pass unreasonable laws such as TARP, in a matter of days to avert a crisis.

Of course, many people are so compulsively loyal to the idea that Government and Authority are ethical, they go along blindly without asking the real questions. They just assume that the Authority figures are asking the questions for them, but we know this is not the case.

[Doctor_J]

12. Guess I will have to stop watching Skinemax at 2:00AM

to keep from getting porno ads sent to my house.

BTW, I would bet my house they're already tracking my viewing

[Grinchie]

13. They don't realize that once everyone is aware of this, they will abandon TV.

Or find ways to circumvent it, causing millions of dollars in losses for them.

This is clearly an invasion of privacy, just as bad as the Patriot act having libraries report what books you check out of the library. That was the first step, and in case anybody has forgotten, many Librarians quit over that little provision.

It is trivial to gather a general census of the political winds by determining what programs people are watching. Add to that the complicit production of programming that elicits a particular response in people, and you can see that this would be like presenting yourself to the Psychologists supervising the interrogations at Guantanamo Bay. They could analyze your very basic drives without your knowledge.

[tom_paine]

21. Oh, I think they know their target audience better than we do.

They have spent billions, possibly trillions of dollars, and millions of person-hours, to figure out how we think down to the fifteenth decimal place.

They figured out that people are MORE easily manipulated when the group is LARGER, despite the counter-intuitiveness of that concept, and they developed the required level of media saturation, aka The National Hologram, to utilize that fundamental psychological fact.

We few "who can SEE", to periphrase the very relevant movie "They Live" (minus the concepts of aliens walking among us, that movie completely describes what our nation has become, only the aliens are human, wealthy, and sociopathic), are no threat to them.

Who are "they"? The Ruling Class. The Corporate Elite. The Global Aristocracy. Call it what you will.

We live in an Inverted Totalitarianism, and while Obama and his asdministartion may be able to turn back that clock, it is still a longshot.

What is Inverted Totalitarianism?

http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/20080515_chalmers_johnson_on_our_managed_democracy/

It is the form of government we, the Russians, and the Chinese live under. We are more inverted than classical, the Chinese are still more classical than inverted. But the gap is narrowing.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

14. Sure

My TeeVee makes loud BANG (s) while I'm watching or sleeping, or just sitting here with it turned off. It has also turned off all by itself.

Of course though, it's an Admiral.

















RFID chip or some other kind of Top Secret chip.

[no limit]

15. Honestly, I couldn't care any less. Seems like a smart form of advertising.

[Politicalboi]

16. No these boxes

Are the ones that are suppose to "brainwash" us. They probably have an Obama channel telling is our talking points for the day. It's much different than that old radio box that tells us our talking points.

[ProudDad]

17. New Plan - Dump your f*ckin' cable

Rent DVDs from your friendly neighborhood (locally owned - non-BlackLister - Video store)

Download important stuff and show it on your tv or computer.

Go out and (ride your bicycle to) see some live music, a play, a demo, a talk...

Hey, stay at home and talk to your family!

Hell, learn to play a musical instrument in all the time you save away from cable TV...

The f*ckers can't trace that kind of stuff! (except the downloading)...

Just some suggestions.

[jberryhill]

22. LOL....

"Download important stuff and show it on your tv or computer"

That's already inherently traceable.

If the set-top box ad serialization information is not connected to a person's ID, then all this does is provide you with advertising targeting your interests (cars, action movies) and not other non-targeted ads (adult diapers).

That can be done in ways that do not connect the box and your identity, such as by a downloaded random serialization.

That's how online ad targeting systems work. It is not "Jim Johnson visits sites X, Y, and Z, so serve him advert A, B, and C". It is "computer that received adserve cookie xkkdyy2k455656 visits sites X, Y, and Z, so serve him advert A, B, and C". There are ways of structuring it so that the adserve cookie is not ever associated with "Jim Johnson".

That's not an invasion of privacy.

[ProudDad]

23. I already said that!

"The f*ckers can't trace that kind of stuff! (except the downloading)..."

Did you miss my point?

Ok, the point is:

"GET A LIFE!"

A real life, that is...

:hi:

[jberryhill]

32. I agree with the last part....

I really can't get too excited over whether my television watching behavior is being used for ad targeting.

I mean, really, are "they" going to be checking to see if you are watching "subversive television programming"?

You'd think "they" would be more successful at going after the people who are BROADCASTING this "subversive television programming" in the first place.

I mean, geez, wouldn't it be simpler to not have subversive television programming, than to check whether people are watching it?

[ProudDad]

58. I vote for all the subversive programming

the channels will hold.

Much better than the marshmallow for the mind that drips out of nearly all of those channels!

:hi:

[jberryhill]

60. Nailed it.....

Anybody who is watching TV doesn't need to be monitored.

It's the people who don't watch TV who are dangerous. Lol.

[nyc 4 Biden]

25. WARNING: Tin Foil Hat Time...

This would actually make a good movie...

The government uses cable boxes with hidden cameras in them to spy into everyone's homes.

:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

[Ian David]

26. On the other hand, if they can target the ads to the subscriber...

... they won't need to tailor the programs to the ads.

We MIGHT end up with smarter TV shows.

[Michigan-Arizona]

28. Not sure how true this is

My brother who is in the MARS program told me a few year's back don't do anything in front of the tv that you wouldn't want anyone to see. He is so not the type of person to talk like this normally.

[jberryhill]

36. Yes....

Because so many people have been arrested and charged with things they were doing in front of their TV.

[MindPilot]

30. I don't give a shit.

They are tracking what I watch, so the hell what? It might result in better programming if they were to notice that I'm not watching the crap they currently make available.

[Frosty cupcake]

38. LOL

If this means the end of obnoxious ads for products I will never, ever use, I say bring it on.

Ads for music I like, yes.

Ads for Viagra, no. Hell, no.

[MindPilot]

48. Hey! Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[The Straight Story]

37. They already do track, have seen these things in action first hand

I interviewed with a cable company in CA. One of the things they needed me for on the network side was data reporting.

The director showed me how the system worked - we could pick a house out on a map, see what they were watching, how many times they paused or fast forwarded, what shows they recorded, etc and so on.

They had a plethora of MIBs (Management Information Blocks) deployed and were working on more.

And this was a year ago. They offered me the job but I had just gotten one (wanted to interview anyway, didn't think they would offer it to me - a friend set it up though so I went).

One piece of software they used was SpyGlass (not the only one):
http://www.spyglass.net/

[mac56]

39. Yakov Smirnoff: "In Soviet Union, television watches YOU!"

He was just ahead of his time.

[BulletproofLandshark]

46. Then I expect we'll be seeing lower bills in return for all that free market research, right?

:rofl:

[bemildred]

50. I don't have cable.

:-)

[mr11]

54. Is that even necessary?

If it is I would like to know why.
:tv:

[MadHound]

62. They're acting like this is a new thing,

It isn't, all that's new is that the cable company is actually admitting to doing this. Hell, they've been tracking viewing habits via satellite and cable boxes for years now.

[No Elephants]

64. The cable box may know what you watch, but who gave it permission to tell anyone?