(New Audio) Schumer on torture 2004: 'Do what you have to do'

[sabra]

Source: The Hill

New audio unearthed of Sen. Chuck Schumer's (D-N.Y.) comments at a 2004 Senate Judiciary hearing is likely to cause to heartburn for the New York Democrat.

The comments show Schumer was much more willing to tolerate torture than most Democrats are today.

And I'd like to interject a note of balance here. There are times when we all get in high dudgeon. We ought to be reasonable about this. I think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who would say that torture should never, ever be used, particularly if thousands of lives are at stake.

Take the hypothetical: If we knew that there was a nuclear bomb hidden in an American city and we believed that some kind of torture, fairly severe maybe, would give us a chance of finding that bomb before it went off, my guess is most Americans and most senators, maybe all, would say, Do what you have to do.

So it's easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be used. But when you're in the foxhole, it's a very different deal.

Read more: http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/05/14/schumer-on-torture-2004-do-what-you-have-to-do/

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Stupid statement in 2004; stupid statement today.

[mikelgb]

2. Exactly, this is the BIGGEST STRAW-MAN EVER!!1!

agree or not with that scenario, THAT IS NOT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED

[roguevalley]

52. he is such a dick. sigh.

[liberalmuse]

3. There is a concerted effort to out Dems. What about the Republicans?

I'm really curious what they had to say about torture. We all know the climate for the first term of the Bush administration because of 9/11. Fuck, you couldn't even oppose the wars without being pretty much accused with siding with terrorists. Let's not fall for this bait and switch that is probably being engineered by those loyal to Cheney. They're trying to muddy the waters, because the real focus needs to be on Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Rice and Rove, and what illegal activities they were carrying out.

[Baby Snooks]

8. We already knew about the Republicans...

We didn't know about the Democrats. Oh, what a tangled web we weave...

And before Miss Hillary starts with the "right-wing conspiracy" she has a little problem herself with some tapes in the trial of her money man Hsu in Manhattan. It's now a toss-up over which is the most scandalous trial at the moment. The trial of Brooke Astor's son or the trial of Hillary Clinton's money man.

When are people going to stop waving their little partisan flags and take a look finally at what we have in Washington NOT representing our interests?

[Zhade]

16. It's not a bait and switch. I don't care who the fuck says things like this. Arrest them all.

Every last fucking one who supports and enables torture should be held accountable before the law.

[No Elephants]

24. We can assume the Republicans supported Bushco. I am very interested in knowing what Democrats

said and did, though. And I am not losing my focus one bit. I would not vote Republican if someone put a gun to my head. However, that does not mean I am going to Booyah! Democrats who did nothing to stop the Bushco crime family, either. Those, who like Schumer, justified lawlessness, or like Feingold, wrote a strongly-worded letter, then buried it in his files for such a time as this.

Obviously, the Republicans are combing records outing Democrats. Nothing prevents Democrats from doing the same to the Republicans. They have as much money and staff for that kind of activity as the Republicans do. If the Democrats in Congress or the DNC don't choose to do that, for whatever reason, the Democrats are allowing the Republicans to drive the news. That's on their heads, not the heads of the Republicans, who are trying to save their party however they can, and not on the heads of posters at DU.

[The Stranger]

51. Why didn't the Fucking Democrats just do what is right and fight the torturers?

That rustling sound you hear is the pigeons coming home to roost.

[marshall]

4. The internet/electronic age is NOT the time to make sweeping statements

They come back to haunt later.

Politicians have always been able to cover their asses by denying something later, and it was their word against whoever might rise up to refute them. Even IF a recording popped up to contradict them, it wasn't possible to widely desiminate it--or if it was it couldn't be spread around before public interest had waned.

We're going to have some rough times until the new generation of politicians come forth--those who have been raised from birth on the current technology.

[No Elephants]

25. No. We are going to have rough times when people get more circumspect. Then,

we'll have a much harder time getting at the truth. Democracy depends upon availability of the truth. Otherwise, what the heck is your vote based on?

These are the good times, kids. When they learn to lie and cover up even beter than they do know, we may as well opt for a good ditator or decide how to vote by eenie meenie miney mo.

[blm]

5. The best known Dems sided with Bush in 2003 and 4, and would NOT stand with Kerry who called THREE

TIMES for Rumsfeld to lose his job over his conduct of the war and Abu Ghraib.

Go look at who was calling for scrutiny and for Rumsfeld's pink slip in 2003 and 2004. NONE of the best known Dems at the time. Not even to stand with the Dem nominee. Clintons. Lieberman. Schumer. Biden....yes....even Biden waited till AFTER the Nov. 2004 election to call out Rumsfeld.

[karynnj]

22. In siding with Bush on so many ideas, they also muddied the waters

- especially with some Clinton allied Democrats arguing the CLINTON's position rather than the nominee's - making it harder for Kerry to get his mmessage out clearly. For the FEW months of the general election - they needed to act like a unified party and FOLLOW the candidate's lead. The fact is he turned out to be right on many many things.

[tomhayes]

6. I agree - torture the guy - and then go to jail

I never understood the ticking time-bomb scenario as an argument for not going to jail afterwords.

Don't you love America enough to save it from a nuclear holocaust, and then go to jail for a while as the world's biggest hero?

i'll bet'cha that if the facts were as described in all the scenarios (ticking time-bomb - only you can save millions of innocent people, the detainee has the information and the *ONLY* way to get it is torture) you'd like be pardoned by the president.

BUT - if the scenario was incorrect (like it has been in 100% of the cases we know about) then it's off to jail for you. And even if it's correct you get PARDONED for a CRIME you COMMITTED.

[SkyDaddy7]

10. Mr. Soufan destroyed the "Ticking Time Bomb" Fallacy...

In the hearing yesterday Mr.Soufan said there are better more efficient & ethical ways to get high valued info from someone...NEVER is there ever a need to torture someone...However, the media and many others are currently focused on Obama's blocking of pictures which provide little or no additional news at this point.

WHO CARES: The bomb dropping hearing yesterday should have been front page news as it undermined Cheney and the fallacy of a "ticking bomb" scenario...But I guess catching Obama in a so-called "flip-flop" is more important to most & the media than actual new info on torture.

It is kinda funny how we had a President who lied about almost everything and it was simply passed on...Now we have a very open and honest President who is not perfect but it seems many in the media and elsewhere would rather make huge deal out of these OLD pics than cover what happened yesterday!

Oh well?

[No Elephants]

28. Media did cover Bush, or you and I would not know about anything that happened between

January 2001 and January 2009.

Part of what happened yesterday, though, is that Obama continued the Bush policy and practice of keeping evidence of a crime under wraps and Obama also failed to prosecute for torture. On the other hand, part of what happened yesteday is that the US did NOT torture anyone (at least, so we are told).

Just as media let us know what Bush was doing and not doing, they are letting us know what Obama is doing and not doing.

[SkyDaddy7]

34. Are all your post here on DU like this one?

You either reply to my comment in a mature way or ignore it, understand?

[No Elephants]

43. The only immature thing about that exchange was your post to me, so I will refer you to your own

advice.

[No Elephants]

27. Some are calling for Obama to pardon Bushco, if he remains unwilling to

prosecute. The rationale is, at least that preserves the rule of law. And it does not prevent other nations from going forward. To the contrary, a pardon would be a green light to other nations, signaling that the US is not going to prosecute, so they can, if they choose.


They see not prosecuting and not granting a pardon, however, as THE worst scenario as to torture.

[tomm2thumbs]

7. that was the slowest ticking time bomb in history - a click every 2 or so years

OMG - nuclear, nuclear, nuclear!!!!!!

Sounds just like the GOP - so what's the difference here?

[saigon68]

9. Chuck Scummer is a hand-maiden of corporate interests

He really only cares about the rich and famous

And has a stated desire to disarm amerika

A pox on him

[ThomCat]

19. He also cares a whole lot about his own power and influence.

He really seems to picture himself as a rainmaker in D.C.

I wish we could get rid of him here in NY. But the party isn't willing to field anyone to run against him, and he has too much corporate support.

But then, of course he has corporate support. He's the ideal corporate whore. He has turned selling out our government into a dedicated way of life. x(

[ThomCat]

20. I have been wishing we could get rid of this bastard for a long time.

He's a major problem in our party. :(

[alsame]

48. Me too. n/t

[saigon68]

35. Not to mention disappearing from the radar from 1966 to 1973

Ala Dick 5 Deferments Cheney

[blm]

47. the BushInc wing of the Democratic Party....ala Clinton and Lieberman.

.

[MessiahRp]

11. It would be ironic if this caused Schumer enough heat to get him primaried...

Since he purposely uses his DSCC to railroad primary opponents of right leaning corporate dems out of races.

Rp

[ThomCat]

21. His concern has never been whether or not other dems are

right leaning or corporate. It has been whether or not he has influence over them or not. He has been publicly trying to built his stature as a power-broker.

It would be wonderful if we could get someone to run against him successfully in a primary. We need to get him out of there. He's a right leaning corporate dem.

[No Elephants]

44. We can always hope.

[swilton]

12. Saddly, I'm not surprised.

Would someone please bring in the broom and clean up this mess!:nuke:

[nvme]

13. Ticking bomb

Ironically, I watched Dirty Harry and Death Wish last night on the TV thing. Both Characters were willing to go outside the law to do what they felt is right. I'm sure some Republican was spilling Jizz all over Himself when Harry said "Do you feel lucky punk?" It's a nice fantasy. Those stories however are fictional. In each of the stories Eastwood and Bronson's characters were willing to accept the consequence of their actions. They were not these cowering pussies. That say this opinion or that one says its legal. Unlike many in our government who hid behind the flag to justify criminality. If any member of congress was complicit in this fiasco then they should be charged. Any member of the previous administration who signed on advocated or participated in torture should be prosecuted as war criminals.

As far as the ticking bomb scenario its bullshit. That is a cowards excuse. THERE NEVER WAS A TICKING BOMB! There were only people who tortured the people who they thought were guilty of crimes. When they tortured other people they became criminals themselves. Hypothetical scenarios are introduced by those who seek to circumvent the law. Following the law is not "high dungeon" it what makes us human. As much as I despise John McCain, any statements he made or propaganda that were elicited from him while being tortured, must be discounted. For the simple reason, any human would say or do what ever the torturer asked, so long as the brutality would be paused or stopped.

[No Elephants]

29. "spill jizz on himself" "cowering pussies" Amazing to me that people who seem to classify

themselves as Democrats see nothing wrong with phrases like that.

Some Republicans are women. So are some Democrats. So are some DU posters. I ask that you have some respect for us.

However, if we are going to classify behavior by genitalia, far more dicks than pussies in the Senate have shown themselves to be cowards.

Thank you.

[saigon68]

36. classify behavior by genitalia-??? - I prefer Rectums

Because any one implicated in this--- is an ass-hole

And to be PC its gender neutral

[underpants]

41. They tortured to get an Iraq- alQaeda link and stated it even though they never got it

[vkkv]

14. He Should Just Admit That He Was Wrong At That Time

He didn't give the order or write a paper defending the legality of torture.

[Zhade]

15. What. The. Fuck.

How morally repugnant.

*I* am an American, and I say torture is never justified -- AND IT NEVER WORKS.

[PassingFair]

38. Oh yeah? And just HOW many episodes of "24" have YOU watched?

:sarcasm:

Really, they based their feelings
about torture on a TELEVISION SHOW.

:puke:

[magellan]

17. How does a Harvard Law School graduate and senior Senator get this stupid?

He must be paid well for it.

The shame these asshats have brought on this nation goes on and on....

[saigon68]

37. Well he was draft dodging during this time before at at

HaVaard

:edited to get the accent correct

[mule_train]

45. funny how so many hawks are good at draft dodging

lot easier to be a hawk, if it isnt YOU who is going

[magellan]

53. Hear hear, mule_train

It would be interesting, I think, to know how many of the hawks in Congress have any combat military experience. I anticipate the number would be quite low.

Welcome to DU.

[saigon68]

54. There's lots of them

Joementum Limpmann also comes to mind.

[bluesmail]

18. He's already been written off as a Dem I would trust...long ago eom

[No Elephants]

31. Schumer is the Democratic Senator from the State of NY, a very powerful state. If that is

being written off long ago as a Democrat, please let me know how can I get written off, too.

[bluesmail]

40. (Consider yourself written off or in DUspeak ignored). eom

[No Elephants]

46. Sometimes, that is a huge compliment. and this seems to be one of those times.

[ThomCat]

50. I also figured out quickly his first term that he couldn't be trusted.

He jumped right in, displaying arrogance and disregard for the issues that affect lower and middle income people. He seemed to immediately think he was destined to deal only with "important people."

Every time I (and friends) wrote to his office his office would send back the expected form letter response, but even the content and tone of his form letters was disturbing. They didn't even bother to pay lip service to progressive values.

If even your form letters have excuses and justifications for supporting big businesses over the little guys on every issue then you're pretty easy to spot as a rightward figure in the party. :(

What a Huge disappointment he has been, and then unfortunately he has climbed to a big position of prominence in the party. x(

[No Elephants]

23. In 1988, the US became party to the UN Convention Against Torture, Etc. That means

the Senate voted on it. Schumer was not in the Senate then, though, so we cannot fault him for voting for something without giving it much thought.

However, has Schumer been active in trying to get us to revoke our participation in that treaty? Or is he simply advocating lawlessness on the part of the US whenever some wannabe torturer feels as though the end justifies the means and is not too picky about reliability of the information?

Thanks, Schumer, for revealing yourself as a member of that group. So, we won't be expecting to see you in any more high dudgeons about the lawlessness of Bushco on TV or on the Senate floor or in the press , right?

By the way, when were you in a foxhole again? (HINT: The Senate is a luxury club, where folks like you get waited on hand and foot and otherwise pampered and indulged to bits, not a foxhole.)

How many more Profiles in UnCourage are some of our favorite Democrats going to be giving us?

I say, PRIMARY every one of them.

[depakid]

26. Well, if this helps to get him out of office and put someone better in his place

then it's not all bad.

[No Elephants]

30. Except, what are the odds? DU posters are supposedly among the

most politically involved Democrats in the country. Yet, no one from NY who posted on this thread seemed determined to do more than post and wish Schumer gone. I saw nothing about running against him, or going out to help find a candidate who will run against him. Not even a statement of determination to join the state Democratic Party to work against him. Heck, not even a claim of having called or emailed him to portest his position on this.

Just imagine how little those who are not as interested as we are will do.


And that's why incumbents, for the most part, stay in office, no matter what.

[No Elephants]

32. Read Schumer's wiki. He's really a mixed bag. And, although he is a Senator from NY, he

looks as though he was bucking for quasi-blue dog status.


He opposed gay marriage until recently. Write a book about, essentially, appealing to Joe and Jill Six Pack, etc. (The wiki says "middle class," but I heard Schumer describe his hypothetical folk and they sounded a lot like UnJoe the UnPlumber to me.)

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Hepburn]

39. Torture is illegal.

Need I say more? :shrug:

[Solly Mack]

42. Ouch. Ugly

[fascisthunter]

49. I Never Really Liked Him snor did I Ever Trust Him

one more shill among a party full of them. It's the same as having corporate America running the gov. What's the fucking difference... they work for the elite, and not us at all.