Egypt wants Obama to speak from mosque

[BlueJessamine]

Source: MSNBC

CAIRO - When President Barack Obama addresses the Muslim world from Cairo next month, Egyptian officials hope he will choose 1,000-year-old Al-Azhar mosque, the heart of a revered institution for Islamic study, as his backdrop to convey U.S. respect for Islam.

The American Embassy in Cairo said no decision has been made yet on a venue for Obama's June 4 speech on U.S. relations with the Muslim world. But two Egyptian security officials said Thursday that an American advance team scouted five potential sites this week and narrowed it down to a short list of three — the Al-Azhar mosque and two other locations connected to it.

Al-Azhar is one of the oldest, most prestigious and most influential institutions of higher learning for Sunni Islam.

Delivering his message from the 10th-century mosque would convey the American president's regard for Islamic religion, culture and history, Al-Azhar officials said.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30769881/

[Mz Pip]

1. I don't think so.

Obama is the leader of a secular nation and should not play into the religious requests of other countries. I don't think it would be a good idea for him to address Italy from St. Peter's Basilica, either.

He can be respectful of their religion without having to speak from their mosque.

[Kali]

2. not the same thing

[DerekJ]

3. co-sign.

[Sandrine for you]

4. A great thing to show he think about it but not a good thing to do. An adjacent one's is better.

[bertman]

5. I certainly hope he speaks from a secular venue and not a mosque.

On the other hand, if he DID speak from a mosque, it would probably reduce the rolls of the Republican party by 50 or 60% due to exploding heads and heart attacks.

Maybe I'll reconsider my non-religious preference.

[Dirigo]

7. Mosque NO, Someother Government Bldg YES

I agree with Bertman--I hope President Obama doesn't speak from a Mosque for entirely political reasons and a strong message of separation of church and state. It would serve no benefit for the president to use or herded into a mosque for a state visit and speech to the people of Egypt. As a Roman Catholic I would also not see any benefit of his making a state visit to the government of Italy but addressing the people from the Pope's window over the piazza at the Vatican. I think it is a dumb idea on the part of the Egyptians to even broach such an ill advised venue. Visiting Egypt in a venue such as the government palaces is all that is required and should speak volumes to the good people of Egypt without having to stroke their religiouw fervor. Would we expect the President of Egypt to visit the Landover Baptist Church to make baptists feel better on his next visit to the U.S. Of course not! Whoever concorted this misadventure ought to be "waterboarded"! ;)

[bertman]

8. Good point about us asking the President of Egypt to visit the Landover Baptist Church.

Sounds to me like the Egyptians are trying to engage in some serious political gamesmanship.

Saturday Night Live should run a skit on this one. Have President O speaking from the minaret of a mosque and saying "I, President of the United States, Barrack HUSSEIN Obama, even though I am a mus-, er, I mean Christian . . ."

Rush Limbaugh's arteries would enlarge to four times their normal size and he would burst like a ripe tomato.

[Posteritatis]

6. One could pick far worse locations than that; I like it (nt)

[Dirigo]

9. A Slightly Worse Place To Speak From Would Be Atop The Great Pyramid

I think it would be equally as tacky to speak from a mosque as it would be to speak from the top of one of the great pyramids. It's tacky, diminishes the president's message to the people, send the wrong message at a time when religious fanaticism is as combustiable here in the U.S. as it is in other countries in the Arab world.

What would you like to see next, women not properly attired in burkas beaten with sticks. Women segregated or worse not allowed in for the president's speech. Criticize the president if he doesn't face east and pray to allah on cue. Lets dispense with the bullshit religious gymnastics and concentrate on civil diplomacy.

[axollot]

29. I liked it because Egypt's Heads of State came up with the idea too

after the scouting was done. While wacko RW'ers heads will explode, aneurysms, stokes and heart attacks across the land in the US en masse - it *does* tell the Muslim world that he respects them and their right to have a 'state' religion (nothing wrong with a 'state' religion as long as you still have freedom of religion i.e "The Church of England").

When the Queen of England is laid to rest, there will be a rep from the US, an American prez (I do think she has 8 yrs or more left in her) most likely that will be in attendance.

It would be a completely WRONG thing to do in the US. Meaning, Obama and co should never/could never hold an audience in a US religious institution. It's one of the things that makes America great and shows the world how to separate church from state, while being very polite about it.


Turning down the ability to use that mosque, with it's historical value on the basis of it's religious roots which is also the countries cultural roots too, would seem, disrespectful at this time.

Cheers
Sandy

[Ian David]

10. Bush has spoken from a mosque. Have those photos ready.

Bush visits mosque, warns against violence | Christian Century ..
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_26_118/ai_79127824/ - 34k - Cached - Similar pages -

[Christa]

14. We have to keep these photos

we may well need them :evilgrin:

[No Elephants]

16. An excellent reason NOT to follow suit, IMO. Obama is already continuing way too much from the Bush

Era, IMO. Bush was a theocrat--or pretended to be. So is the Pope, who made appearances at both a mosque and the wailing wall.

Obama campaigned in many churches in both 2004 and 20065, so Al Azar would not be the first time he spoke inside a place of worship, although perhaps the first time from inside a mosque.

Al Azar is physically beautiful, though, and historic and revered.

[Coventina]

25. ITA: Bush tried to mix religion and politics. We need to put

that era behind us as much as possible.

[JayMusgrove]

11. Maybe he can speak at the top of a pyramid! That would be...

kind of cool.

[Odin2005]

12. Given the BS the Pukes are spewing that would be a BAAAAD idea!

"SEE, I TOLD you he was a muslin terrist!!!"

[JDPriestly]

13. No. Separation of church and state includes separation of mosques and state

[Posteritatis]

27. People really need to actually read that amendment instead of making up interpretations (nt)

[JDPriestly]

30. I've not only read the amendment, but also the Supreme Court

cases interpreting it.

Remember Madison, the author of the Bill of Rights. Here is what he said about separation of church and state in a signing statement explaining why he vetoed a bill that would have awarded property to a Baptist church.

Veto Message
February 28, 1811
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To the House of Representatives of the United States:

Having examined and considered the bill entitled "An act for the relief of Richard Tervin, William Coleman, Edwin Lewis, Samuel Mims, Joseph Wilson, and the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House, in the Mississippi Territory," I now return the same to the House of representatives, in which it originated, with the following objection:

Because the bill in reserving a certain parcel of land of the United States for the use of said Baptist Church comprises a principle and precedent for the appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, contrary to the article of the Constitution which declares that "Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment."

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=65922&st=mississippi&st1=church

That amendment very well does establish separation of church and state. Madison knew very well the intent of the authors in writing it. Hard to argue with his interpretation. No establishment of religion. The Supreme Court has interpreted that to mean that our government should not endorse religion.

The reason that Egypt wants Obama to speak in a mosque is that they want him to endorse their religion. Egypt makes life very difficult for its Christian citizens. I don't think Obama should go along with this unless while in the mosque he makes it very clear that he endorses religious tolerance and separation of church and state, not any one religion.

[MADem]

15. It does look like he'll be speaking from the "complex" if not the actual masjid.

Mosques aren't quite the buildings that churches are.

I've been in large mosques on a Friday night where extended families are heating up dinner on hotplates in a corner, kids are playing, old men are reading, and over in the other corner men are beating themselves with chains in unison.

They can sometimes serve as "community centers" as well as houses of worship.

The challenge is to get others who don't know this to appreciate this fact.

[No Elephants]

18. Then we can look forward to the venue getting as much coverage as the message. Bad move, IMO.

[Coventina]

24. The same stuff goes on in churches as well, except maybe

the beatings with chains. That I have to say I've never seen....

[newfie11]

17. He spoke at Notre Dame, why not a Mosque.

Why does he have to pick and choose religion. He is just speaking, not joining. I guess in this respect I have to say what Cheney's favorite word,"SO".

[Psephos]

28. Because he spoke in an auditorium, not a church

Meanwhile, when he spoke at Georgetown, his staff saw to it that a Cristian religious symbol behind the stage was covered up.

I'm sure that the local Muslims won't mind if his staff ensures there's a black cloth draped over the crescent or any other identifying symbols. :eyes:

[ohio2007]

19. This mosque was in the cards. Can they provide security or not ?

Shouldn't be a problem since the pope tested the waters last week.

[onager]

20. Just spent 4 years in Egypt, and my suggestion is...

He speaks from a venue that combines both American and ancient Egyptian symbolism.

I refer to a building located right smack in front of the Sphinx in Cairo--a Pizza Hut.

:rofl:

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

For the record, al-Azhar University is sort of the epicenter for "moderate" Muslim theoology in the Middle East. As other posts note, it is the oldest Muslim university in the world.

Al-Azhar is the home of such horrifying moderate-Muslim things as female Islamic scholars. One such scholar, Souad Saleh, frequently writes about how the Koran does not command women to completely cover themselves. She gets a lot of death threats.

(However, Saleh agrees with many of the goofy Koranic commands about sex etc. e.g., she believes married couples should not have sex during the woman's period because it is "dirty." How do I know that? Because she said it in a magazine interview.)

Having said all that, I'm dead set against our President speaking from a mosque in Egypt (or anywhere else). Partly because Egypt is also the home of the Muslim Brotherhood, a/k/a "al-Queda Version 1.0." The MB was founded in 1928 by Hassan el-Banna, whose brother is still alive and is one of the most LIBERAL Islamic scholars in the world. Go figure.

In recent years, the MB has tried to position itself as a more moderate organization. But occasionlly the mask slips. A couple years ago, the Supreme Guide of the MB denied the Holocaust ever happened.

These are the kind of people who will be taking credit (in Egypt) if Obama speaks at that mosque. Besides, I'm a Grumpy Atheist so I'm just genetically opposed to it on principle.

[Igel]

21. Not al-Azhar.

It's not a modernity-friendly venue, and if he's there and doesn't say things that "offend the feelings" of the delicate Muslims in charge of it he'd be committing a serious error. Some of their pronouncements deserve no respect and earned their speakers no dignity; granted, they were often overturned, but only after al-Azhar's minuets were thickly covered with shit after it made contact with and passed through the proverbial fan.

Of course, if he said things that did offend their delicate sensibilities he'd also be committing a serious error, abeit a different kind of error and there'd probably be riots in the streets.

There's a legislative body--granted, an ineffectual one, but it exists nonetheless. He can address that. There may still be riots in the streets, of course.

I'm betting he'll speak from al-Azhar.

[JI7]

22. he should speak at a Pyramid

[Ian David]

23. See also: Here is Ingrid Mattson with FORMER pResident Bush... in a MOSQUE

1. Here is Ingrid Mattson with FORMER pResident Bush... in a MOSQUE!


President {sic} Bush meets with Muslim leaders at a mosque in Washington, DC (9/17/01).

See prior thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3696517&mesg_id=3696836


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8123521


From the thread about Ingrid Mattson speaking at Obama's inauguration:

"Ally of Hamas Speaks at Obama's inauguration prayer service"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8123521

[New Dawn]

26. How would this be any different than him speaking at a Christian church?

I am an atheist, BTW.