Obama slams Bush administration for taking America ‘off course’

[sabra]

Source: CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) — President Barack Obama said Thursday the Bush administration took America’s national security “off course” in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attack.

After September 11, “faced with an uncertain threat, our government made a series of hasty decisions,” Obama said.

“I believe that many of these decisions were motivated by a sincere desire to protect the American people. But I also believe that all too often our government made decisions based on fear rather than foresight. That all too often trimmed facts and evidence to fit ideological predispositions.”

Obama argued that instead “of strategically applying our power and our principles, too often we set those principles aside as luxuries that we could no longer afford. And during this season of fear, too many of us – Democrats and Republicans; politicians, journalists and citizens – fell silent.”

“In other words,” he said, “we went off course.”


Read more: http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/21/obama-slams-bush-administration-for-taking-america-off-course/

[Mira]

1. K&R I am so reminded of why I am happy he is my President.

GOBAMA.
What an excellent and intelligent and clear "slamming" and "dunking".

[ChazII]

15. Me, too. n/t

[SandWalker1984]

67. Did you miss the other part of his speech?

You know, the part where he said he wanted the right to hold anyone he suspects is a terrorist indefinitely, without trial?

Obama told the group he met with yesterday that he was for 'a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried…'

Is Obama saying that an American citizen living inside the United States can be indefinitely detained without trial because Obama considers him a risk to national security?

I voted for Obama, but this sounds like more Bush policy, not the change we were promised.

....If we do not hold Obama accountable, then who will?

[RedCloud]

74. Then this other part makes the speech "left in form, right in essence."

We need more than words. Let's start with deeds.

[RedCloud]

75. 4 towers fell. Not 2. Damn time to explain why!

Only a few trillion dollars later, that is.

[Zhade]

89. Holy. Fucking. Shit. That's straight out of 1984.

NT!

[Raksha]

108. I can't support indefinite detention without trial. That's flat-out unconstitutional.

But I still understand why Obama brought it up, although if he tries to put it into practice I'll oppose it 100%. He said that would be the smallest class of detainees. Reading between the lines, I think he's referring to the "high-value" detainees there's a credible reason to think were connected with al-Qaeda. The reason they are "a threat to national security but cannot be tried..." is BECAUSE they were tortured. Any case the government might have against them would just be thrown out of court. I guess Obama didn't want to come right out and say that, but he should have.

[Vehl]

2. good speech , recd

i read about it right now,
he seems to have gotten the message across...i just hope the republicans are able to understand what he says.lol...somehow i dont think they will

[L. Coyote]

52. I believe that many of these decisions were motivated by GREED & PROFITS

Cheney finally exercised his options in KBR stock......

tip of the corrupt crony, kickback, pay-to-play, illegal campaign contributions, graft, fraud, etc. iceberg.

[Kahuna]

3. Dang. My Prez just declared war on bushco..

:fistbump:

[Dinger]

14. If Only It Had Some Teeth

We'll see.

[BonnieJW]

22. Right. He's still not going to prosecute them.

They've done unspeakable things, and they aren't going to pay. It's hard not to be upset.

[Baby Snooks]

30. And apparently is excusing them as well...

"I believe that many of these decisions were motivated by a sincere desire to protect the American people."
_________________________________________________________________

NO decision they made was motivated by any such thing. He is EXCUSING them.

[CrawlingChaos]

79. You got that right!

And if he can't even admit that much, then we are still WAY off course.

[Iowa]

29. How can you say that?

First, in his usual Caspar Milquetoast way, he praises the Bush administration for having benevolent intent:

“I believe that many of these decisions were motivated by a sincere desire to protect the American people."

Clearly that's a damned lie - and a very dangerous and destructive one.

Second, Obama is basically a continuation of the Bush administration... 12 years of Bush/Cheney/Obama. He has sold out in countless ways, and continues to do so every day.

It's just amazing that all this guy has to do is deliver a bunch of hollow words, and half the people on this site swoon.

[vanbean]

43. I have to agree with you. I am very disappointed.

[CarlottaCorday]

56. Thank you IOWA!

:popcorn: The minority opinion here today is looking GOOD.

[Revolution9]

60. he's absolutely right

all it is hot air.
no teeth.
no prosecution.
*speech*
....loading....
NO PROBLEM!

[CrawlingChaos]

80. Right on IOWA! (nt)

[Turborama]

101. Several posters are quoting that sentence and omitting the rest of that statement...

"Unfortunately, faced with an uncertain threat, our government made a series of hasty decisions. And I believe that those decisions were motivated by a sincere desire to protect the American people. But I also believe that – too often – our government made decisions based upon fear rather than foresight, and all too often trimmed facts and evidence to fit ideological predispositions. Instead of strategically applying our power and our principles, we too often set those principles aside as luxuries that we could no longer afford. And in this season of fear, too many of us – Democrats and Republicans; politicians, journalists and citizens – fell silent."

Context is key. I guess you have to read between the lines, watch his face/body language and hear the way he said it to get what he actually meant, he is a politician after all and of course in the real world he can't put it exactly the way we'd all like him to.

When he added "season of fear" it added up to:

"Bushco's Goebbels-esque propaganda campaign to manipulate the American people into supporting an illegal war."

IMO

(Formatting edit)

[Iowa]

106. I looked at it in context and it is still a damned lie - and a very damaging one...

The crimes of the Bush administration were not motivated by a "sincere desire to protect the American people".

--A war killing countless innocent people - all based on lies (and they KNEW they were lies).
--Sodomizing children
--Slicing genitals with scalpels
--Widespread torture of all kinds

Don't tell me that these are good and decent people with honorable intentions. They are animals. They are no better than serial killers. So when I hear our Caspar Milquetoast of a president trying to excuse their animalistic behavior as little more than well-intentioned "hasty decisions" so as not to ruffle their feathers, I think it's weak, cowardly, and contemptible. And he even stoops so low as to try and shift the blame to "citizens" who "fell silent". Another damned lie. Most of the citizens of this country have been screaming for justice as soon as the various government cover-ups are exposed.

So when you look at it in a wider context, as you suggest, it is even MORE damning. Key players in the Bush administration committed a heinous, pre-meditated, cold, calculated, mass-murder. And their mass murder was compounded by their Nazi-like government-sanctioned torture. Obama is trying to spread the blame, minimize the magnitude of their crimes, and shield the perpetrators. And for that he is deserving of contempt.

[Turborama]

111. "too many of us ... fell silent"

And in this season of fear, too many of us – Democrats and Republicans; politicians, journalists and citizens – fell silent.

I agree with the general gist of what you're saying, but he did not say "ALL citizens", he was implying that not enough of us saw through the mist of lies and spoke up, which is true.

It's important to remember that at the time of the invasion, a vast majority of Americans believed Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11 and was in possession of WMD.

U.S. media coverage

The U.S. invasion of Iraq was the most widely and closely reported war in military history.(191) Television network coverage was largely pro-war and viewers were six times more likely to see a pro-war source as one who was anti-war.(192) The New York Times ran a number of articles describing Saddam Hussein's attempts to build weapons of mass destruction. The September 8, 2002 article titled "U.S. Says Hussein Intensifies Quest for A-Bomb Parts" would be discredited, leading the New York Times to issue a public statement admitting it was not as rigorous as it should have been.(193)

=snip=

A September 2003 poll revealed that seventy percent of Americans believed there was a link between Saddam Hussein and the attacks of 9/11.(197) 80% of Fox viewers were found to hold at least one such belief about the invasion, compared to 23% of PBS viewers.(198) Ted Turner, founder of CNN, said that Rupert Murdoch was using Fox News to advocate an invasion.(199) Critics have argued that this statistic is indicative of misleading coverage by the U.S. media since viewers in other countries were less likely to have these beliefs.(200) A post-2008 election poll by FactCheck.org found that 48% of Americans believe Hussein played a role in the 9/11 attacks, the group concluded that "voters, once deceived, tend to stay that way despite all evidence."(201)

Links to the cited stats can be found, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Media_coverage">here

I was in England at the time, where the MSM were a lot more critical, unlike in the US. For several months leading up to the impending invasion I was vigorously campaigning online and helping organize and going to marches (Jesse Jackson, Ken Livingston & Tony Benn's speeches in front of 1million+ marchers in Hyde Park, London articulated extremely well what we all felt).

At the time there was just a small minority (literally 2 or 3 consistent anti-invasion posters against hundreds of pro-invasion sheeple) who could see through the fabricated BS during many discussions on AOL boards - I'll never forget one guy who refuted my predictions of it turning into another Vietnam by saying, "That's impossible, Iraq doesn't have any jungles!".

I hadn't discovered DU then, but wish I had because the battle to get that multitude of ignoramuses to understand what was really going on was extremely frustrating, emotionally draining and felt like being a lone voice in the wilderness.

If you haven't seen it already, this excellent 90 mins Bill Moyers Journal is well worth a watch: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html">Buying the War | http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/transcript1.html">Transcript

[Turborama]

4. Excellent speech, he's really letting Busch & Cheney have it!

:kick: & R

[L. Coyote]

53. That was a small dose of criticism lite and Bush Apologism.

Saying Bush/Cheney was a fraudulent JUNTA that stole Florida 2000
would be only a little opening salvo in my arsenal!

[Fovea]

5. Like the Exxon Valdez.

But let's remember that the Valdez also had a captain and a crew, and there would be a board of inquiry for such charlie foxtrots at sea.

[liberal N proud]

6. Slam - Bam

[Catshrink]

8. Wish they'd do more of that.

The seem like they're letting ChEEney, et al, punch away and the Obama admin isn't hitting back -- at least not much. I keep telling myself that Obama is playing rope-a-dope but I'm getting impatient with them. Of course, the more the Bushistas talk, the more they implicate themselves. Karen Hughes is an example of that (on another thread she was quoted as saying there was lively debate in the WH at the time).


I'll settle for rope-a-dope -- I just wish he'd land the knock out punch soon!

[destes]

65. " rope-a-dope " is, frankly, wearing me out

We've got the worst of all things going down in all directions and it's ALL attributable to the goals and tactics of the neo-con faction of the republican party. It's arrest, trial and prison/execution time.

[indepat]

7. Attributing any 'puke initiative as a sincere desire to achieve some noble purpose seemingly flies

in the face of reality. :P

[Robbien]

9. Not bringing criminal trials against those who broke the laws brings us back on course?

Just complaining about the naughty things Bush Admin did. But that's all okay. Let's Move On.

[AwareOne]

11. Exactly what I was thinking

Obama is all talk and no action. He just said yesterday there will be no prosecutions of Bush officials. More "impeachment is off the table" talk from our Democratic leaders. Face it folks, there is no more justice in the USA. Corporations will continue to lead our nation in whatever direction they choose and Obama is just another corporate whore. Obama has disappointed me on the environment, keeping Bush's policies in place for oil and gas, mining and timber companies, wolf protection (or lack of). On health care he has caved to the insurance and pharmacy companies. The war continues unabated and we just appropriated another 97 billion for wars. And no prosecution for those who lead us into false wars and murdered, tortured and raped those in our custody. Gee, I don't know how much more change I can take.

[CarlottaCorday]

45. THANK you, Aware One.

:bounce: I know what let's do. One way or another, support the heck out of any man or woman in our government who IS on the level. Durbin and the like. There are only a handful anyway.

[salguine]

10. Odd comments, considering how hell-bent he appears on continuing an alarming

number of these policies himself.

[L. Coyote]

55. Ahh yes, the Sidley Austin intern at work.

What do people expect from an intern in the world's largest
corporate law firm, defender of Bush criminals, keeper of lost White House e-mails, .....

[Gman2]

12. I was feeling an Abraham Lincoln thingie.

That speech will mark a moment. When America advanced. And Obama will be credited. And his detractors will find little to grasp. His stance and manor was forceful beyond all possibility of arguing for unconstitutionality. He advanced a living con by saying that the founding fathers would not have imagined these particular threats. Trancparency, structure, procedure, evenhandedness. All adressed. I am still wiping tears. We have a STATESMAN ladies and gentlemen!

[L. Coyote]

Holy Crock Batman, we forgot the deep doodoo waders!

[Hawkowl]

13. Getting a clue

Good! It appears that Mr. President is finally getting a fucking clue and just might start taking off his gloves. This cumbaya shit and "why can't we all just get along" bipartisanship is enough to make me vomit. Bushco is out to strangle Obama's administration before it starts and it's high time Mr. Obama uses the "imperial presidency" to bring the criminals to justice.

I hope that the 90-6 vote against closing Gitmo sends a clear message to Obama. It was a giant middle finger by the corporate congress to the President and all Americans. All the years Bush was president and Bush was never rebuked like Obama just was. It's clear Obama is going to have to play bare knuckle Chicago style politics or become irrelevant like Jimmy Carter.

[The Hope Mobile]

19. I hope so! nt

[jazzjunkysue]

23. It might be a warning shot across the RNC bow. let's hope he's willing to really

shoot back.

This could be ground work for an investigation into gitmo et al. It could also be defense for Nancy Pelosi.

It might be a first indication that blame is about to be assigned and fingers are about to be pointed.

Either way, I like it.

[BlueJessamine]

16. k&r....

:fistbump:

[marshall]

17. That was a pretty broad brush he slammed with

By saying "our government" and naming both political parties he is pointing the finger at everybody who was involved.

[Jim Sagle]

18. He let them off the hook and gave them an easy way out. He's all about bipartisanship.

If we wanted, we could've crushed the Republican party permanently.

[Raksha]

Yeah, he gave them the easy way out but the Repukes are just too arrogant and stupid to take it.

Like their fearless leader Darth Cheney. He just HAD to play the big mean tough guy one time too many, but it seems to have backfired. I think Obama had a pretty good idea that would happen...he really *IS* a chess player, you know. I get pretty impatient with the "bipartisan" crap myself, but I love the way they NEVER see it coming!

[RoccoR5955]

20. Bingo. Ruling by fear, rather than reason.

Our President is quite on the ball. Another one for Obama. The smartest President this country has seen in quite some time!

[Zhade]

91. Yeah, because indefinite "preventative detention" isn't something to fear.

Are you guys even FUCKING PAYING ATTENTION?

[Jim Sagle]

110. Chill, dude. Isn't that a cute WH puppy over there?

[RoccoR5955]

114. Of course indefinite detention is something to fear.

I didn't mention that, because I hadn't heard him say that. I heard it last night on Maddow, and AM I STEAMED!
What if someone like the last resident of the White House gets in again? We are all screwed.
No, no detention without charge. It says so in the Constitution. Amendment VI : "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense."
He should know this. I don't think it would stand up in court. We really need to get rid of the Police State Act aka Patriot Act, and get rid of this fear.
The guys that were just arrested yesterday in the Bronx weren't tortured, or held in any prison for a long period of time. They were foiled by laws on the books that were in effect BEFORE the Police State Act. We don't need to give up civil liberties to protect us from those bent on terrorism. Obama should know this. I know that he has the intelligence to understand this. I honestly do not know why that indefinite detention thing came up. It really gets me sore at him. Oh well, his honeymoon is OVAH!

[frog92969]

21. "fell silent"?

Millions of us were screaming in a vacuum!

[groovedaddy]

24. I'm right there with you on that! But Obama didn't say that no one spoke out. He knows better.

And why did so many "fall silent?"

[Baby Snooks]

31. He meant those whose voices matter...

And they weren't silent. They were all good Germans. And still are.

[L. Coyote]

59. Felled silence. All dissent was crushed, illegal spying, politicization of justice, political

prosecutions, election theft ....

Yeah, we really had a voice, but we decided not to use it :rofl:

[Wizard777]

25. Amen brother! But If you don't steady the rudder we're gonna go off course again. Like it or not.

I'm glad Obama is optimistic about the intent behind us going off course. But if he's gonna break that Bush mold some are trying to press him into. He should yield his optimism to our pessimism. He can't lead us if we won't follow. I think many of us are still gun shy about optimism. Bush used his optimism to slam us head long into wall after wall. What the interrogators were doing to detainees physically. Bush was doing to us psychologically with his unbending optimism. Now we're afraid of hitting the wall again. So Obama needs to get on our page with us before we all can move forward together to his page.

[Martin Eden]

26. I am becoming less impressed with Obama's speeches.

His speeches are no less eloquent, and they usually reflect my own views.

But unless coupled with action that substantiates the rhetoric, it's little more than words.

How much have our policies changed in Iraq and Afghanistan since Jan 20? It looks like we're at least a year from getting out of the former, and we are escalating our troop levels and military action in the latter. Can we really sippress Islamic radicalism in the Afghan/Pakistan border region by bombing them?

I've not given up on Obama yet, but we're seeing way to many decisions on multiple fronts that belies the Change we were promised. I think his propensity for comprise has compromised the kind of leadership we need to change the die that was cast the last 8 years.

[Wednesdays]

27. K&R

:kick:

[derby378]

28. "A sincere desire to protect the American people" - WTF?!?

This tells me that Obama really doesn't want anyone from the Bush administration prosecuted. This is bad.

[L. Coyote]

61. By sending them to an illegal war based on lies. Yeah, lying epitomizes sincerity!

Bush-lite! The brand that makes you a puke!!

[Enthusiast]

64. He was wrong on that assessment,

if he meant it. I don't believe he was sincere. How could he be? We all know there were selfish ulterior motives driving everything after 9/11. I sure to hell hope President Obama knows this.

[crankmob]

32. quit talking and put it back on course then.

words are meaningless w/o action..

[cali]

58. yes, it's so simple. All he has to do is wave his magic wand n/t

[Mari333]

33. it was a small slap

a slam would be when he reverses the bush admin occupations of iraq and afghanistan, calls what they did war crimes, and goes up against the military industrial complex. he merely tapped them on the wrist and what they really need is a good ass whoopin.

[Cha]

104. I'm so glad we have President Obama

taking care of business instead of you.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Baby Snooks]

37. Revenge?

Some us want justice. Not revenge. We knew there would be no justice with Hillary Clinton. We deluded ourselves into thinking there would be with Barack Obama. Sorry but the past months have just reflected more and more the hollow words of a hollow man. Who does not serve the interests of those who elected him.

[FrenchieCat]

41. I have yet to find a positive post from you in reference to this President.....

The hollowness is to be found in your tactics.

Those who elected him are not only you and your opinion.
We didn't elect Dennis Kucinich, although you may be dillussional in thinking we did.
This President ran on turning the fucking page......
You must have been at a Kucinich rally when he stated it multiple times.

Too bad you had no candidate in the last election, evidently.

[katandmoon]

47. Are you the positive Obama post police?

[FrenchieCat]

50. No. Just understanding motives behind posts

sometimes allows one to know why some posters decides that being unreasonable
is the only way to go.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SandWalker1984]

82. Pravda story states Obama trying to put lipstick on a pig...

You can go to Pravda.ru (click on English at top right corner) to read the entire story. However, I found these words significant:

“The Obama administration's adoption of the stonewalling tactics and opaque policies of the Bush administration flies in the face of the president's stated desire to restore the rule of law, to revive our moral standing in the world and to lead a transparent government," said ACLU executive director Anthony Romero.

The official added that it would be absurd to retrieve the system of courts-martial since they had already proved to be powerless. Romero advised Obama should recollect his own words, which he said during the pre-election campaign: “You can’t put lipstick on a pig.”

“The military commissions system is flawed beyond repair. By resurrecting this failed Bush administration idea, President Obama is backtracking dangerously on his reform agenda,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch.


Obama is rapidly throwing awaay the "good karma" he held in the world in January.

[CarlottaCorday]

87. Me too, Baby Snooks.

Well, I supported him the minute Kucinich dropped out. I campaigned for him inside a red state, at my peril. Then he won, and I watched it begin. It started with the cabinet post appointments. And the great people left OUT of those appointments. I've picked my jaw up off my shoe-tops now, and walked on, expecting no more good from Mister Obama. We were had. As usual.

A Soldier's mom
In the blood-red Ozark Mountains

[goclark]

93. You deserve a

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dreamnightwind]

48. enjoy your crumbs

Thanks, I knew I could count on you to try to silence this opinion. By the way, pretty much anything I say is my opinion, unless I'm quoting some external fact, so no cloaking device is in play.

Go ahead, turn the page and enjoy your new utopia. If you can find satisfaction in it, I won't begrudge that for you. It's what my parents did after JFK was killed, after Bobby Kennedy, after MLK. It's what we all did after Vietnam, Iran/Contra, the S&L scandals, and Enron. Now we're supposed to do the same after torture, Iraq, and a financial scam of unimaginable magnitude?

Me, I'm going to work for real change, and I certainly won't let people like you stop me. The ferocity of your defense of the indefensible just makes it clearer how important it is for those of us who expect more from our leaders to speak out, loudly and often.

Face it, our Democratic party has been stolen out from under us. It's still better than the Republican party, but then what isn't?

Frenchie, I think you and I probably believe in most of the same things. We need allies for the causes we believe in, not enablers for the criminals.

[FrenchieCat]

51. People can say whatever in the fuck they want. And that includes me!

You posted, and I responded. That's how it works, right?

Look, this country has always been fucked up. Don't know why you think that all of the sudden,
it is supposed to become perfect. The Black Guy in charge aint the magic negro after all.
Folks being unreasonable about expectations as to what one man can do
is no more realistic than thinking that this country has ever been, nor will ever be
perfect.

[dreamnightwind]

57. Don't call me unreasonable

I think there is growing agreement on this board, and throughout the country, that it's people like you who are the unreasonable ones.

I understand the limits of one person, even the president. I cut him a lot of slack because of that. Now that we know more, it's clear that he no longer deserves the benefit of the doubt. If he wants people like me back, he needs to win us back. Instead, he's just worried about reassuring the bad guys that he won't rock the boat.

Are you even following current events closely? Do you only look at the crumbs he throws us, or are you also looking more deeply into the way he's positioned himself as someone who is no threat to the dark forces who have gotten us into this mess? Because from your posts that I read, there is nothing to indicate any awareness beyond what I would call that of a cheerleader.

[FrenchieCat]

63. I don't think there is a growing agreement anywhere.....

And I'm just a patient realist who understands that this country has always been fucked up!
Always. And no, you are not cutting him any slack....considering that a little under 5 months
is enough for you. But go ahead and call me anything you want....Cheerleader, Kool-Aid drinker, etc...but then don't hypocritically turn around and tell me that I can't call you unreasonable...cause that wouldn't make any fucking sense.

[dreamnightwind]

68. so now I'm a hypocrite

I was asking you for some evidence that you're more than just a cheerleader, which is actually a little different than calling you one. I'd be quite happy for you to step up and be more than that. We need all the help we can get.

I agree that 5 months is not much time. However, these are no ordinary times. Much has happened in these 5 months, and we now have a lot of actions on which to evaluate our president.

Are you happy with "turning the page"? Are you satisfied that we're putting rules into place so that the page is truly turned? I see nothing to indicate this. The page isn't turned, we're just being told that it's turned.

We sliced the genitals of prisoners! The most disgusting acts imaginable were committed in our names, and pretty much every action Obama has taken has been to defend the torturers.

I wouldn't be willing to just turn the page, there needs to be accountability. Not out of revenge (I'm loosely following a Buddhist path, and don't believe in revenge), but to establish the precedent that these kind of things are not tolerated and have consequences to those who order and implement them.

But IMO, we're not even turning the page. We went to Europe and lobbied the g12 or whatever it was AGAINST re-regulating the financial markets. Pretty much every intervention by the Justice Department has been on the side of the wiretappers, the torturers, and oh yes on the side of poor Senator Stevens of Alaska. Now THAT was my top priority, overturn his conviction so he can run again!

Nice fight he put up for the cram-down, too, oh yes he didn't. Trillions for wall street, foreclosures for main street.

Well, as the saying goes, I may be crazy but I'm not stupid.

One of the positive things I can point to is attacking the off-shore tax havens, but I'm afraid this is just more of the same, look like a reformer without actually being one. We'll see how that one turns out.

And a mandatory universal corporate healthcare plan with no public option would be the absolute worst. I think that's where this thing is headed. Just called my senator to protest this, and to reject accepting a "trigger" that would kick in sometime in the future as an alternative to a public option now.

It goes on and on. Put down your pom-poms and show us you care about something.

[Zhade]

97. That it has been fucked up is your excuse? Pathetic.

NT!

[Zhade]

96. It's not about being unreasonable. It's about him breaking his word about restoring the rule of law.

Letting criminals walk does not accomplish that, and is a coward's way out.

[Mushroom]

85. What could possibly be unreasonable

about wanting justice... And a little credit for being conscious before inauguration day. We all recognize the moral, ethical, legal and psychological confusion our president inherited from the Bush Administration. We inherited it too:

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, May 16th, 2002: “I don’t think that anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon, that they would try to use an airplane as a missile ... even in retrospect there was nothing to suggest that.”


“I believe that many of these decisions were motivated by a sincere desire to protect the American people."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH8K0bPc-BE

:eyes:

[Zhade]

92. INDEFINITE. PREVENTATIVE. DETENTION.

That concept of Obama's just trumped your willful blindness.

[CarlottaCorday]

44. TFA, dreamnightwind.

That's...TOTALLY...BLANKING....AGREE!
:bounce:

[SandWalker1984]

78. More of us have looked behind the curtain - and found

the same Bush policies being continued.

To name a few:
continuation of spying on Americans by the government
continuation of the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan
continuation of war tribunals for Gitmo detainees
continuation of "detention policies" ie holding people w/o trial
continuation of corporate intervention in all policy decisions
continuation of the same private corporate health care $ystem

Now we learn Obama doesn't want to hold anyone in the Bush administration responsible for war crimes committed, nor does he want Cheney held responsible for outing Valerie Plame.


I am losing my trust and faith in Obama's promises vs his actions. We deserve more than pretty speeches!

[dreamnightwind]

83. Yes, Plame hurt

Forgot to mention that one. Nothing to see here, move along.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

35. SO START THE INVESTIGATIONS THEN!!

We're in trouble here on many fronts: national security, financial security, loss of any sort of moral compass (that one's been sliding forever, but really went south since 2000).

You want to "get back on course"? The only way to do that is to thoroughly, thoughtfully, legally INVESTIGATE. And make it JOB ONE so it does not take five years. And then, if people are found guilty - whatever their political affiliation - SEND THEM TO JAIL!

Anything less than that is a threat to our future as a country.

We're tettering here. It's a dangerous time. We need real leadership and Obama has a window in which to be a great leader. Obama still has a honeymoon period here to get started. But unless something SERIOUS begins soon, he will lose our support and the support of other world leaders.

[Amonester]

38. Yes. Unless something SERIOUS (aka, apply the LAW) begins soon,

he will lose our support and the support of other world leaders (who follow the LAW).

Not only that, but the WAR CRIMINALS FOR GREED will be back FULL FORCE (they'll find a way to come back, and they'll be WORSE).

[CarlottaCorday]

49. They are already back...

...and they are already worse...and Obama is under no tremendous pressure to keep promises, he will renege with ease. He already has. Look at the majority of comments here (but thank God for the healthy minority). "A Lincoln moment," one guy said in reference to the ever-continuing continuity we got from our president today.x(

[VaYallaDawg]

39. Excellent speech, made me so proud of my decision to vote for Obama.

One problem - it may have had too many two- and three-syllable words for a lot of those GOP goons to figure out what he's talking about.

No matter, most intelligent Americans get it.

[UpInArms]

40. I hate the use of the collective "we"

please don't include me - or Will Pitt - or Isaac Peterson or many other writesr or journalists - in that collective crapkissing statement: "And during this season of fear, too many of us – Democrats and Republicans; politicians, journalists and citizens – fell silent."

George, John and Osama

by Bridget Gibson December 8, 2001

It's getting harder for me to determine exactly whose side George Bush and John Ashcroft are on. That is such a strange statement. But bear with me for a minute. Supposedly Osama bin Laden planned and executed the September 11 attack on America precisely because of our freedoms. That is what George Bush said on September 20, 2001. So following that logic, would it not be the proper thing to protect exactly those freedoms if we are to fight terrorism? To continue to live normally, to go on with our lives, to show the terrorists that they did not win, that the only way to prove that terrorism lost is to defeat its goal. Terrorism's goal is to change the victim of such in a profound way. The perpetrator wants to alter how each and every person affected by terrorism views his/her world and force a change to the ways of the terrorist.

Well, our feckless leaders have chosen not to defend our freedoms. They have chosen to forsake all that is wonderful and unique about the United States because of what? My logic tells me that Mr. Bush and Mr. Ashcroft must be on the same side as the terrorists, and that our way of life, our way of country and our way of being American is wrong.

We are wrong to follow the Constitution that was printed with the blood and beliefs of our forefathers. We are wrong to follow and have faith in the Bill of Rights that were negotiated to make ours a "more perfect union." We were so wrong that Mr. Bush and Mr. Ashcroft have taken it upon themselves to destroy as much of both of those documents as possible in as short a time as physically possible.

We are to disavow our faith in our judicial system and allow secret military tribunals to decide the fate of anyone they choose. What about those three young Americans that were following their faith in fighting with the Taliban? They were fighting with the Taliban before September 11, when the United States (through its policies proscribed by Bush) was financially aiding the Taliban in its fight against poppy fields. Never mind that on May 19, 2001, we (the United States) gave the Taliban $43 million (in dollars - not aid) to cease its drug production. Never mind that we had been notified of the Taliban's horrendous treatment of women for many years. Never mind that we watched (via television) the Taliban destroy thousand year old Buddhas that had been created by what they determined were a faithless people. These three young Americans can be stripped of their citizenship, can be called "terrorists" for aiding the Taliban, can be tried in secret military tribunals and executed. That was a Military Order signed on November 13, 2001, by George Walker Bush.

We have the USA Patriot Act, drawn and enlarged upon by Mr. Ashcroft, that is in violation of the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eighth and Thirteenth Amendments of the Bill of Rights. In the eyes of Bush and Ashcroft our Constitutional freedoms and the Bill of Rights mean nothing. This is what the actions of Mr. Bush and Mr. Ashcroft are telling us. If you agree, nothing need be done. That's the path that we (the United States) are taking. Congress and its lawmakers have no voice in these decisions and thus, you the represented public are allowed no voice either.

Mr. Bush and Mr. Ashcroft have decided that those freedoms that have made us a unique and special country are the very things that we Americans must relinquish in order to protect them. Somehow their logic escapes me. How can we be "free" if we give up our freedoms? How can one lose the very rights that set their country apart from all others and still remain the same?

The United States of America was a country of law. Our forefathers were disillusioned by the elite rule of the English King. They decided that a country of law would be best served by those laws and not in the trusting of men. We have been told to "trust" George Bush and John Ashcroft. They will make those decisions for us. They want additional powers not allowed by the Constitution and are insisting that our representatives give it to them. Somehow I do not think that was what Madison, Jefferson, Franklin and the other founding fathers had in mind.

You had better speak up soon or you should forget that First Amendment, too. You know the one. The one with the part that says "freedom of speech."

[CarlottaCorday]

42. Cheney/Obama: Secret Handshake?

LOOK:

November 6, 2008, Cheney to Obama: "OK, Barack, you continue our policies with no change, and I promise to give you cover by pretending to fight you tooth and nail on changes you aren't even making. The television media is already on board with this. You understand, right?

Obama to Cheney: Course I understand, naturally you can count on me, I've already started implementing my continuation of your policies. You'll see the proof of that every day for the next four years. But I am going to need you, so don't forget your promise. Don't up and DIE, for God's sake!"

Cheney to Obama: "Die? Who, me? I've got the heart, lungs, and kidneys of a young girl."

Obama to Cheney: *laugh* "Sure, I remember. I KNEW the girl. Where's your gratitude? It was me who picked her out for you!"

Cheney to Obama: *giggle* "Sshh...you keep talking out loud like that, somebody's going to record it, and we're gonna have a harder time equating ‘conspiracies’ with ‘unicorns’. Not an impossible time, just harder. Maybe.”

Everyone else standing around: *laughs* "head nods* *obscene J.O. gestures indicating their group-opinion of the voting public* *exclusive private D.C. club cocktail hour set for that evening*


(Am I going to be in twouble now?)
:9

[CarlottaCorday]

86. P.S.

Cheney: "I'll make a huge squawk demanding the declassicfication of some supposed CIA memos that show how waterboarding actually did save thousands of American lives right here in the homeland. Then you--"

Obama: "I know, I know. Then I refuse to declassify those memos, after releasing several DAMNING memos to the media, and that way it will appear that your memos must exist, or I wouldn't be refusing to declassify them. And we pull it off without ever having to produce the real thing, since the 'real thing' is non-existent; there are no memos showing that waterboarding even works, let alone ever prevented a major attack on the homeland."

Pat Buchanan: "Damn right, there you go!"

[katandmoon]

46. And yet Obama is doing the exact same fucking thing

[FrenchieCat]

54. To hell he is!

What a twisted fucked up view of all that this President has done to date!

In fact, yours is an opinion based in no more reality than the opinion of Dick Cheney, since neither of you are using facts....just accusations based on the fact that you must have really told yourself that you were electing Kucinich but that he was hidding in Obama's body somewhere! We didn't elect a Radical liberal Socialist that the Right claims we did. Even you should have known that.

[jeff30997]

69. katandmoon vs FrenchieCat ?

Err,I was going to make a stupid joke but I'll keep it under wrap.:)

And I agree with most of what you say BTW.

[katandmoon]

95. I guess she will follow me around the board now and keep track of my posts.

Knock yourself out, FrenchieCat.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProgressIn2008]

66. Off course? Um, okay. So, what will you do to reassert the rule of law, besides give a speech? nt

[morffin]

70. F- YOU, Mr President

enough with the empty talk ...prosecute these criminals and stop giving speeches about how awful they were.


DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

[underpants]

71. oh snap

I was wondering why I had heard several times in the last few days the inescapable fact that Bush and CHENEY did nothing before 9/11 and vastly overreacted after 9/11

The O man just laid down the trump card. They can get into a bidding fight but we know who is going to win

[totodeinhere]

72. The speech was too bland.

He said that Bushco had "a sincere desire to protect the American people," which is utter BS and Obama knows it. I supported him enthusiastically during the campaign, but I am becoming more and more frustrated that he doesn't seem to want to take any real action against the criminal activity that took place during the past eight years. And now he even seems to be apologizing for it.

[DebbieCDC]

73. Slams chimp with one hand....

Continues chimp's policies with the other.

Same old same old.

One term president.

[Zhade]

98. I'm certainly not voting for him again. Not while he keeps breaking his promises.

At this point, I doubt I'll even vote, to be honest.

[Vidar]

76. More empty, albeit eloquent, words.

[1955doubledie]

77. Off course? It's like we dropped off the edge of the earth

I saw a cartoon recently that showed a GOP elephant driving a car (representing the USA) off the cliff. Sort of like that.

[happydreams]

84. Ah fuck you!! you goddamn warmongering liar!!

Fuck Obama and all of this half stepping bullshit!! About Bush: "A fucking sincere desire to protect the American people????????????????????"

Give me a fucking break!!!!

If you can't confront the truth Mr. Prez then just don't say anything!!

[Zhade]

88. I think prosecuting war criminals and not holding people indefinitely without charge is principled.

Sad Obama doesn't agree. He's lost my vote over his broken promises.

[CarlottaCorday]

90. Good on you, Underground Democrats!

What was this morning the MINORTY take on Obama's speech, is this afternoon the MAJORITY take on it.

Well said, every one.

[jeff30997]

99. And you're saying "Good on YOU" because...?

:shrug:

[CarlottaCorday]

105. I must have spoken backwards. Try this version:

Eno yreve, dias llew. Ti no ekat ytirojam eht noonretfa siht si, hceeps S’amabo no ekat ytronim eht gninrom siht saw tahw.

:shrug:

[jeff30997]

109. ytronim ?

Maybe you mean ytironim ? :P

[jeff30997]

113. Hey Charlotte.

Why did you kill Marat ? :)

[cornermouse]

100. It would be more useful and more to the point

if instead of slamming them, he started issuing subpoenas and indictments.

[tom_paine]

102. Words, not deeds. n/t

[lostnotforgotten]

103. So, Does This Mr. "O" Speech Justify No Torture Prosecutions?

eom

[Amonester]

107. yep. and he won't "release" any other "secret memos" now.

maybe he had his lesson...

[mdmc]

112. HOW DO YOU THINK YOU GOT ELECTED?

You got in on the failure of the corporatist - failure of the Bush.Cheney crowd.
Somehow dems dodged the HRC bullet (she would have also beat McCain) and we elected you.