Senator asks Clinton to explain Honduran policy

[subsuelo]

Source: Reuters

A key U.S. senator asked the Obama administration on Thursday to explain in detail its policy on the Honduran political crisis, warning that otherwise Senate confirmation may be delayed for a U.S. diplomatic nominee for Latin America.

"The complexity of events that led up to the Honduran crisis has given rise to questions regarding U.S. policy," Senator Richard Lugar, one of the Senate's most respected voices on foreign policy, wrote to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

The United States has refused to recognize the Honduran government led by Roberto Micheletti, which took over the Central American nation after President Manuel Zelaya was ousted by the Honduran military on June 28.

Lugar told Clinton he shared her support for mediation by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias in the month-old dispute over whether Zelaya should be allowed to return to his post. But he also appealed to the State Department to provide a detailed clarification of U.S. policy to "interested Members" -- an apparent reference to several of his fellow Republicans, who charge Washington is trying to reinstate a left-wing government in Honduras.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE56T7DM20090730

[saigon68]

1. OBVIOUSLY a Right Wing, Coup installed, Hateful, Military Dictatorship

Is Preferable to a Democratically elected by the people, Government that wants all of its citizens to be free from corruption, hunger disease etc.

What a POS this Lugar is.

[bemildred]

2. This could be funny.

Watching Clinton "explain" to Lugar what our policy is, I mean.

[karynnj]

6. I get your point, Lugar is far more of a foreign policy expert than she is,

but she, not he, is privy to what the policy is. This is a perfectly valid request. The administration's policy has not been all that clear. It may be that there are things too delicate to say in public, but Lugar is the ranking member of the committee that has oversight. They should get at least get a closed door briefing. I would hope that the chair would echo this request.

[bemildred]

8. No you don't, that's your point, not mine. nt

[karynnj]

9. I added what I did out of sarcasm

Why would it be "funny" to see Clinton explain foreign policy to Lugar. He is a long time head Republican of the SFRC and the Secretary of State is suppose to keep them informed. Was it "funny" to see Condi Rice explaining official policy to Kerry, Feingold, Boxer and Biden? This is what oversight is.

Do you think Clinton is too good to have to answer questions by Congress? Did you watch the SFRC when Clinton was confirmed or the one in June?

[bemildred]

10. I just pointed out that you were trying to put words in my mouth.

Speak for yourself. If you want to know something, ask politely. I was talking to Saigon, if you want to butt in, be civil. If you are just angry with me and want to inform me of that, consider the job done.

[karynnj]

13. I was not angry at you

I thought the comment strange. If you weren't a Clinton supporter, that would have been my interpretation. There is nothing funny in the Secretary of state explaining a foreign policy opinion to a man who has been on the foreign relations committee since the 1970s.

What kind of nonsense is this: "If you want to know something, ask politely. I was talking to Saigon, if you want to butt in, be civil. "
1) It is a public message board and anyone can respond to anything
2) What should I have asked you - the rest of my post does question why that would be see as funny
3) civility - at most it was a slightly sarcastic post - why the sensitivity


Why do you have a problem with this request. It is the type of oversight we wanted under Bush.

[bemildred]

15. Hmmmm ...

1.) Indeed it is, and indeed they do.
2.) Ask me what I meant, instead of telling me?
3.) You haven't been obnoxious, really, certainly not in internet terms, but it is presumptious to think that you know all the possible points of view, and then to select one for me.

I am not a fan of either of those Senators. Explaining why I think it would be funny would most likely just annoy you, so I don't think I will go into it. I will admit that I don't think we have a coherent policy WRT the current situation in Honduras, we have various factions pushing their individual agendas, from what I can discern, and that does not seem unusual to me, and that is one of the problems with the way we do foreign policy.

Edit: Yes, I know, Hillary is SOS now.

[karynnj]

21. Now, you are the one who is assuming things about me

What is your reason for thinking it funny and why would that annoy me?

The only reason it might be amusing is that it is if HRC's personal position, like Bill Clinton's were in the past, is closer to Lugar's than the obama administrations position, which she would have to defend. The President is the only one who has the power to decide the strategy and work to control those factions.

[bemildred]

25. Apparently a good guess ...

"The only reason it might be amusing is that it is if ...".

It seems to me I can be amused for any reason I like.

You are correct about the President and his proper role.

[karynnj]

28. OK - Is that your reason?

If so, you are absolutely wrong that I would be annoyed. I would, in fact, agree. I am one of the people who think that HRC was put as SoS to neutralize her. The cost of that is that she has periodically been a leader of one of the factions you mention.

[bemildred]

30. Is what my reason?

I agree with you as to why she is SOS, and she has not impressed me much in that role, but she looks mostly like a tool to me. But so does Sen. Lugar. And I truely don't know what "that" is in "is that your reason". "That" is why I am reluctant to get into it, you appear to have a lot of preconceptions that I do not share. You obviously take the US' political process much more seriously than I do.

Let me change the subject, do you find it troubling that Lugar seems to be threatening Obama's foreign policy appointments in an attempt to support the Honduran coup?

[karynnj]

32. The one holding up the nominations is DeMint

I do find that troubling, but I was more frustrated when Menendez held 2 nominees up for environmental positions because he was protesting the Cuban policy. I don't think one Senator can permanently hold up appointments.
.
As to your reason, at this point, I could care less. You obviously are not inclined to express your opinion. By the way, you come here with just as many preconceptions - though obviously different ones.

Good bye

[bemildred]

34. Nice talking to you.

I find the use of holds on appointments as a political tactic troubling, whomever does it. The administration of the government ought not be at the mercy of one, possibly anonymous, Senator. But it seems to be a long-standing practice in the Senate.

I already said I'm not going into it.

I agree that we have different preconceptions.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Lugar looms in this article published Saturday: Honduras Crisis Exposes Weakness of US Democracy

Published on Saturday, August 1, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Honduras Crisis Exposes Weakness of US Democracy
by Lindsay Shade

While Honduras is on the brink of a civil war, politics-as-usual in Washington, D.C. threaten, quite literally, to block US support for democracy in that country. It also threatens to squelch democracy here as well. On Thursday, the office of Sen. Richard Lugar sent a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton demanding clarification on the State Department's intentions with regard to Honduras. The same letter also noted that providing such a detailed clarification would "improve the prospects of confirming" several of Obama's diplomatic nominations for Latin America.

Lugar's letter comes on the heels of outright threats from fellow Republican Sen. Jim DeMint to delay a Senate vote on a key State Department post for Latin America because of U.S. support for ‘leftist' Zelaya, signaling that Lugar and other Republicans are aligning on this strategy to block U.S. pressure to reinstate Zelaya and restore Honduran democracy.

Thursday also brought to bear the most violent repression by coup forces in Honduras since Zelaya's removal on June 28th. In Honduras and Nicaragua members of La Via Campesina - a global network representing more than 150 million small farmers - reported that tear gas and rubber and wooden bullets were being shot at unarmed protesters from helicopters and other aircraft. Multiple human rights and civil society organizations are reporting that journalists and other civilians are being targeted in the conflict areas, particularly near the border with Nicaragua, and that hundreds of people have been injured, some quite severely. The prisons are filled with detainees who oppose the de facto regime. More than 150 people were arrested on Thursday alone, including minors as young as two years.

U.S. pressure (or lack thereof) on the coup regime to relinquish power plays a major role in the possible outcome in Honduras. Strong sanctions would likely bring an immediate halt to the de facto government's ability to maintain power. Already the U.S. State Department has condemned the coup, cut off $16.5 million in military aid, placed a hold on any new development aid, and most recently, revoked the diplomatic visas of four members of the de facto regime.

But human rights organizations the world over have called on the Obama Administration to do more, including terminating all existing aid and cutting off trade and remittances. Thus far, the U.S. has refused to take a strong position that explicitly recognizes the events of June 28th as a coup, which according to U.S. law, would require the suspension of all relations - trade, aid, or otherwise - with Honduras. Secretary Clinton stated on June 30 that "We are withholding any formal legal determination," on whether or not a coup had transpired.

The fact that Sen. Lugar and his fellow Republicans are so blatantly playing politics with this grave crisis is appaling. Their efforts to persuade the Administration to step back from taking the legally required action threatens democracy and the rule of law in Honduras and here at home. Furthermore, attempts to manipulate the Senate voting process in an effort to influence the State Department's foreign policy decisions are wholly improper. Delays in Congressional activity, at the expense of public time and money, as a result of political disputes between branches of government should be condemned by the American public as a subversion of democracy.

More:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/01-0

[bemildred]

27. This is all very awkward, from a US foreign policy point of view.

It highlights the conflict between our desire to look democratic and peaecable while still controlling politics in Latin America anyway. They don't really want Zelaya back, much less to make him stronger; yet likewise they don't want to be seen as supporting these ham-handed bozos behind the coup.

[Judi Lynn]

29. You're so right! The coup support has always been conducted covertly. n/t

[subsuelo]

3. I love the line about

"fellow Republicans, who charge Washington is trying to reinstate a left-wing government in Honduras."

- as if left-wing or right-wing matter in this situation. Democracy itself is at stake!

[karynnj]

7. You are reading a lot into that - especially as he backs Arias

Lugar is pretty good on foreign policy - better than some Democrats.

This is a perfectly valid request. The administration's policy has not been all that clear. It may be that there are things too delicate to say in public, but Lugar is the ranking member of the committee that has oversight. They should get at least get a closed door briefing. I would hope that the chair would echo this request.

The fact is that from other threads, it is clear that there is complete disagreement on what actually happened there and what the policy is. It seems that much of what has been written in all of media is not true. This is one way that at least the Senate would be able to get to the truth. I would have wanted this done under Bush - and I want it done now. Clinton did promise to keep the committee informed at her confirmation hearing.

Under Bush, Lugar did question foreign policy even holding 2 hearings on the impact of oil on middle eastern politics. Here, he is asking a very reasonable thing.

[Vidar]

33. Thanks for the clarification. I greatly appreciate your expertise.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Take it for what is worth, Lugar is totally useless

He always portrays himself as a fierce independent, but he is none of that. Lugar has been nothing more than just another rubber stamp for the GOP.

I will say that despite Lugar's obvious hypocritical support of the most rightwing elements in his own party, that the Obama Administration does owe the American people an explanation for its bipolar policy towards Honduras: wink and nod for the coup while paying lip service to democracy. There are disturbing war hawkish talk coming out of the Obama Administration about Latin America, talk not heard since the bad old days of Nixon and Reagan.

[autorank]

5. The struggles of a failed Empire

I take the back and forth on Honduras by the administration as a good sign. In the past, we'd just support the
juntas and move one. This time, there was some confusion on the policy. For example, we could have said, 'There
need not be any negotiations. Democracy is non negotiable. Restore the president elected by the people.' Or we
could have said, well that's that, lets move on and try to civilize the Generals. But we're in between. It is
fascinating to see this potential shift in knee jerk support for despots. Zelaya outsmarted the thug generals by
accepting the Arias proposal. Now what? The generals are in a corner and Zelaya doesn't need to negotiate any
more (even though the Arias deal was well short of support for democracy which, after all, would have been 'Democracy
is non negotiable. Restore the president. End of conference.'

Lugar? Didn't he sponsor the "Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000."

This legislation enabled unregulated derivatives which ruined our economy. Oh sure, I'll listen to what he says.

There's no success in DC like massive failure. They're immune.

[formercia]

11. Bahia de Golpistas.

Stay tuned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. He did and this is a sign that we have a conflict, a war of words,

and this battle is not taking place just in Tegucigalpa.

This is a good sign for the end of empire, and a really bad sign for the Neocons...which Lugar is a member of...

[autorank]

18. Maybe that's a stage of decline - From War to Wars of Words

Hell, we'd hold our own in that war;)

[EFerrari]

14. I almost remember a report Lugar commissioned on Venezuela --

just not the topic. It was recent, maybe it was about land reform? He's not a particular friend of democracy in Latin America.

[autorank]

19. He's an enemy of the people

That futures act was our great undoing. I'm sure he shares his talents with the rest of the world. Watch out! It's
a Lugar Commission coming. I remember his report from Iraq in 2004, I think. It was pure drivel.

Interesting how he's painted as a "reasonable" Republican, statesman.

Here's my Venezuela report: We tried to run a coup on the guy, maybe even get him killed in the process and he's been
pissed off ever since.

[AlphaCentauri]

20. For the US Neo-Liberalismo the military coup is a story of success

while the clock ticks the military coup has accomplish it's purpose, to stop any political and economical reforms in Honduras, so we can keep getting our Melons and T-Shirts cheaper while the poor stay poor.

[rabs]

16. Hillary should respond to the following:

Yesterday the U.S. Ambassador to Honduras, Hugo Llorens, spoke for three hours with Zelaya in Managua, Nicaragua in a hastily arranged meeting.

The golpista president, Micheletti, last night called that meeting U.S. meddling (intromision) in Honduran affairs.

Questions for Hillary:

Was the U.S. ambassador meddling in the affairs of Honduras BEFORE Zelaya was toppled and is the U.S. still meddling AFTER Micheletti was installed at gunpoint in the presidency?

In the view of the U.S., which is the lesser of two evils, Zelaya or Micheletti?

What was the reason for Lloren's meeting with Zelaya yesterday? What were the results? (The answer is nothing was accomplished, according to news reports from Managua.)

What does the U.S. think about Zelaya's remark this morning that "generalized violence" could erupt in Honduras if this impasses is not resolved soon?

What does Hillary think about the Michelitti's government announcement today that it reserves the right to cancel the visas of U.S. diplomats in Honduras, in reprisal for State's cancellation of the visas of four Honduran citizens this week?

[The abyss]

17. Rabs – nice report!

Much thanks!

How I really wish these questions would be answered!

[Judi Lynn]

23. Maybe Llorens' time would have been better spent BEFORE the coup speaking with the President

rather than with the coup plotters. It's a little late now, but we can assume he was there to talk him into accepting the job only in appearance and not in substance.

Thanks for your information not available to us in our corporate sources. This is something you would have thought they would see as their DUTY to report.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Is a Wider Right Wing Counter-Attack Looming? The Honduran Coup as Overture

Weekend Edition
July 31 - August 2, 2009

Is a Wider Right Wing Counter-Attack Looming?
The Honduran Coup as Overture
By MICHAEL FOX

On Tuesday, July 28 the United States government announced that it had revoked the visas of four leading members of the Honduran coup. More than a month after the Honduran military awoke President Manuel Zelaya at gunpoint and sent him packing to Costa Rica, it appears that Washington is finally beginning to put its foot down--a little. But the U.S. still has a way to go, and so does Honduras.

The U.S. State Department had responded quickly with harsh statements against the June 28th Honduran coup, but over most of the last month, the U.S. government carried out few active measures to pressure the coup plotters to step down. US-backed negotiations were criticized for helping to legitimize the coup d’etat. U.S. Secretary of State Hilary Clinton had appeared to condemn President Zelaya more than the de facto Roberto Micheletti regime.

Last week Clinton called Zelaya’s decision to attempt to return to his country from the Nicaraguan-Honduran border, “reckless”. "We have consistently urged all parties to avoid any provocative action that could lead to violence," she said. A group of organizations and academics focusing on Latin America quickly responded.

“Given that neither Clinton nor President Obama, nor any U.S. official, has even once criticized the Honduran dictatorship for the violence and political repression of the last four weeks, Clinton's pointing the finger at Zelaya is especially threatening to the human rights of Hondurans,” they said in a press release.

The group pointed to the “shootings, beatings, arrests and detentions of journalists, closing of radio and TV stations, and other repression” which has been documented by a half-dozen international human rights organizations including Human Rights Watch and Reporters Without Borders. In mid July, the Committee of Family Members of Detained and Disappeared in Honduras (COFADEH) published a report detailing over a thousand human rights abuses committed by the coup regime.

According to NYU Latin American historian, Greg Grandin—who was in Honduras last week—the assassination death toll is at least up to nine. While thousands of Hondurans remain in the streets in support of Zelaya, hundreds have been detained. Among them are members of the National Front Against the Coup (Frente Nacional Contra el Golpe), including Berta Caceres and Salvador Zuniga (leaders of COPINH - Counsel of Indigenous and Popular Organizations), and the indigenous-garifuna leader Miriam Miranda, who is also a member of OFRANEH (Fraternal Organization of Black and Garifuna Peoples).

On July 23, an international commission of human rights organizations concluded that "grave and systematic violations of human rights" had taken place in Honduras since the military coup. The preliminary commission report also documented “systemic and generalized political persecution” against unionists, peasant, activists, and students.

But Washington had been silent.

Not one country in the world—including the United States—has recognized the de facto Honduran government of Roberto Micheletti that swore itself in the same day it threw Zelaya out of the country last month. But the United States has dragged its feet behind Latin America and Europe and refused to pull its ambassador and cut off all aid to Honduras.

The U.S. also has yet to officially classify the Honduran coup as a “coup d’etat” which, by U.S. law, would forbid any U.S. aid to the de facto government. $16.5 million in aid for military assistance programs has already been suspended, but $180 million dollars in U.S. aid is still flowing- although the State department says it is under evaluation.

The Los Angeles Times and solidarity activists had asked the U.S. government to cut the visas and freeze the bank accounts of those involved in the coup. But for weeks the request had fallen on deaf ears. Zelaya told reporters over last weekend that he believed Secretary of State Clinton was “not acting firmly against the repression that Honduras is suffering.”

Representatives from the Micheletti government had been free to visit the United States and General Romeo Vasquez Velasquez—head of the Honduran Armed Forces—had planned to speak in Miami last weekend. Clinton spoke briefly with Micheletti over the phone last week and communication has been open between the Micheletti government and the U.S. embassy in Honduras.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/fox07312009.html

[PufPuf23]

26. Zelaya had aligned himself with other ALBA nations,

raised the minimum wage, and wants to make changes (civilian and military rather than solely military) at the military base shared by the Honduran Air Force and our DOD. That is the biggest US military base in Latin America. There are existing FOLs on Curacoa and Aruba in the Dutch Antilles and five new US bases under agreement in Colombia. Ecuador had a US base at Manta that we are leaving (at their request) and the DoD is looking for a base on the Atlantic side of South America and Brazil has refused.

There is little doubt to me that parts of our government were well aware and supported the coup.

[bitchkitty]

31. Supported AND orchestrated. n/t

[marshall]

35. Since when has the State Department been transparent in its policies?

Lugar is just jumping on the crowded transparency bandwagon without really thinking about the consequences.