America armed, but guns not necessarily loaded

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

Source: AP

By MARY FOSTER, Associated Press Writer Mary Foster, Associated Press Writer – Wed Sep 23, 2:51 pm ET

NEW ORLEANS – Bullet-makers are working around the clock, seven days a week, and still can't keep up with the nation's demand for ammunition.

Shooting ranges, gun dealers and bullet manufacturers say they have never seen such shortages. Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up on ammo, in part because they fear President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation — even though nothing specific has been proposed and the president last month signed a law allowing people to carry loaded guns in national parks.

Gun sales spiked when it became clear Obama would be elected a year ago and purchases continued to rise in his first few months of office. The FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System reported that 6.1 million background checks for gun sales were issued from January to May, an increase of 25.6 percent from the same period the year before.

"That is going to cause an upswing in ammunition sales," said Larry Keane, senior vice president of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a trade association representing about 5,000 members. "Without bullets a gun is just a paper weight."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_re_us/us_ammo_shortage

[madeline_con]

1. Larry Keane is one insightful dude.

:think:

[MisterP]

2. I hear a "Tosh.O" episode in the making n/t

[positrac]

3. The local Walmart usually has plenty as do the pawnshops.

I do know the ammunition manufacturers are working to keep the Army supplied...they use a lot.

[PJPhreak]

18. I was in a Schwag-Mart the other day,

and right at the end of Bicycle isle,With all the children's riding stuff was a FULL rack of ammo (actually it was on the isle endcap!)...Now why in the hell would ANYBODY put ammo right next to a isle full of children's stuff is beyond me. @&%$#*%!! Schwag-Mart!!

[benEzra]

30. Sporting goods section. Bikes = sporting goods, shotgun shells = sporting goods.

Rifle and pistol ammunition is usually behind the counter, but shotgun hunting loads are often on end racks, and their presence there is no danger to children or anyone else (at least no more dangerous than the end racks of hair spray, vitamins, and cleaners).

[crim son]

4. There's something wrong with this country.

What's all the ammunition for? Not the second coming of christ, I know that. :sarcasm:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

6. Jesus is coming.....

look busy.

[Pavulon]

13. Poling holes in paper?

that is what i use it for.

[crim son]

14. I don't know what that means. n/t

[Pavulon]

15. Typo, poking holes in paper

generally context clues correct those. Shooting targets or sitting ammo in the closet is where this stuff goes.

[crim son]

39. Whatever floats yer boat, I guess. n/t

[benEzra]

26. Target shooting. American target shooters go through about 7 billion rounds a year, on average...

but around 2005, the supply got tight when post-Katrina hedging met Iraq war demand, so people started buying a little more when they could to keep in reserve. This accelerated in 2008, and since ammunition manufacturers don't want to add capacity in an uncertain economy (and risk going bankrupt later if demand dies down), the supply can't keep up with the increased hedging.

The news story referenced in the OP is about a year late, though; the supply is catching up now, and prices are coming back down.

[Treo]

32. Something to think about

The BATFE estimates that something like 10 million guns have been purchased since November of last year If each of those purchasers bought two boxes of ammunition W/ their new guns that's 100 MILLION rounds right there. There's your ammo shortage

Restated

[slackmaster]

36. Every round I've ever fired in my life was for one purpose

Target practice.

[izquierdista]

5. No rounds in the chamber?

That's not the only thing that isn't firing. :dunce:

[Old Hob]

7. When the zombies are out roaming the cities and the countryside eating brains and what not

some of us will be more prepared than others to cope with them. We'll see whose laughing then.

[svpadgham]

17. Katana beats gun in a zombie fight.

It's a proven fact.

[Old Hob]

31. Guess what Bro? I have four of 'em.

seriously. lol

[boppers]

64. Ahem. Lawnmower beats Katana.

Reference: Dead Alive, an excellent Peter Jackson movie, before he got all Hollywood with "plot" and "narrative".

[SteveM]

24. Know what a vegetarian zombie eats? Brans. (nt)

[PatGund]

56. No....

GRAINS!!! GRRRAAIINNS!!!

[TheWraith]

8. This story has been published every couple weeks since last November.

Actually, there's increasing signs that the panic buying is slowing down and stopping. My local Walmart had almost fully stocked shelves the other day for the first time in months.

[bertman]

10. Hunting season is about to start, TheWraith. Can't miss that one.

[SteveM]

21. Hell, no. But I'm using shotgun shells I bought 2 years ago. Cheap!...

I have enough rifle rounds for deer hunting, too. These two types of ammo have gone up significantly, but this is a result of handgun/AR-15 ammo sales (most all ammo uses the same commodities, so even ammo which is not in great demand gets more expensive). But all this panic buying is crapping out, now.

[bertman]

25. by "crapping out" do you mean it's about over?

[TheWraith]

33. Seems to be. I've heard people saying ammo supplies are returning at their local stores.

I've seen it myself. The local Walmart was almost fully stocked last time I was there: 9mm, .45 ACP, 30-30, 30-06, 308, 223, 44 Mag, .22, all sorts of stuff. For months and months they've usually had only a couple boxes of ANYTHING, if that. Not that I cared, since I don't buy ammo there, but it was interesting to see.

[bertman]

38. thanks for the update. nt

[saigon68]

52. Time again to shoot a couple of deer

Yummy time on the grill, although a lot of what we harvest goes into sausage and venison hot dogs

[bhikkhu]

20. Yeah, its old news now

I've read that production has been so high and people have been buying years worth of ammo, that the gun shop guys are figuring the bottom will fall out soon, and hard. When all these guys with guns realize they have years worth of ammo and the stores are chock full of it too, and no one is coming to take their guns away like Rush and Hannity said, ...

[Blue_Tires]

40. yeah, i noticed that, too

they dust off the ammo story every few weeks with that implied "Run out and get all the ammo you can before Obama snatches it!!" talking point...At least the gun/munitions makers and dealers are happy -- they never saw so much business in a down economy...

[harmonicon]

9. I hope that at least some of this ammunition is made in the USA

... I remember an interesting little report I saw awhile ago about a place that's been making gun powder for over a hundred years in the US, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of this somehow comes from east asia or Indonesia, like most everything else.

*sigh*

[ManiacJoe]

11. The vast majority of the US ammo production

is going into government contracts for the military.

[harmonicon]

12. that I would assume, but is it really related to this story?

Also, as someone who knows next-to-nothing about this stuff I may be very wrong, but I would assume that the ammunition that the military uses has only limited overlap with what is sought by sport shooters and hobbyists - am I wrong?

[Pavulon]

you are, 9 mil

fmj is made in the same place if it is going into a white box or a brown box to go to the sandbox.

[bhikkhu]

22. The military used only one company until this decade

then they couldn't keep up with the war-use. The military has been buying from the same companies the sportsmen use for a while now, contributing to the squeeze in availability. Its pretty much caught up now, though.

[benEzra]

28. No, there is a great deal of overlap...

at least in terms of calibers. The top three civilian centerfire calibers in the United States are .223 Remington/5.56x45mm NATO, 7.62x39mm/.30 Russian Short, and .308 Winchester/7.62x51mm NATO, all of which are military calibers in current use. The top centerfire handgun caliber in the United States is 9x19mm (aka 9mm NATO), which is also used by the military. The same calibers are commonly used by law enforcement as well.

Having said that, military-contract ammo and civilian ammo are generally made on separate production lines for contractual reasons (just the way the military runs their contracts), but when civilian production lines get shifted to producing the same calibers for the military as has been happening here since the early 2000's, the civilian supply gets shorted.

[benEzra]

29. Most of the U.S. ammunition supply comes from the United States and Russia...

though ammunition is also imported from Mexico and a few other nations. China used to be a big importer as well, but the Clinton administration halted gun and ammunition imports from China by a stroke of the pen in the mid-1990's.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. That's why I make my own.

[SteveM]

23. How is primer availability? This is the sticking point where I live.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. I have plenty, they can be hard to find though.

[laconicsax]

19. Somehow I thought this thread was about something else...

"America armed, but guns not necessarily loaded" makes me think "America's lights are on, but nobody's home."

[BillDU]

27. Consider...

If you are a rational intelligent human, only your enemies would want to see you disarmed.

[Nihil]

34. But also consider ...

If you are a paranoid moron, you would hold exactly the same view!

(Just saying ... :evilgrin: )

[BillDU]

47. Paranoid Moron

Paranoid Moron?
Facinating!
Try to take a cops gun away calling him a paranoid moron for having one.
Try to take a soldiers gun away, calling him a paranoid moron.
Even though we have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms (not squirrel hunting rifles),
you expect us to put up with that crap?
I only repeat my original statement.
Only your enemies might want to see you disarmed.

[Nihil]

48. Lighten up ... you're starting to sound paranoid ...

:eyes:

[BillDU]

53. Perjarative terms...Oh My!

I disagree.
Being concerned about my right to keep and bear arms is prudent and well worth my attention.

[BillDU]

54. Shift

Shift.

[BillDU]

55. Flip

Perhaps your getting paranoid about my noncompliance?

[BillDU]

57. Thirdly

The use of the term paranoid in this sense is being used in a pejorative sense to attempt to diminish my prudent sense of protection of my 2nd amendment rights.
It is rejected, and ejected.

[BillDU]

58. What's more important?

Is it better to protect our Constitutional rights?
Or is it better to fear being called
"Paranoid"?

[Nihil]

61. Keep going pal ...

... you'll soon get enough posts to allow you to say enough to get tombstoned.

One *could* make a comment about people who keep replying to their own posts ...
but there again, one could also give a flying f*ck about "constitutional rights"
and their so-called "defenders" ... the more you reply, the more you resemble
the people that I was taking the piss out of in my original post on this thread.

:eyes:

[BillDU]

63. Just an American

I figured you'd show up.
Is that a death threat?
because I support my 2nd amendment rights?
People replying to their own posts?
I admit I'm not quite expert on these websites and forums and may reply without considering what hierarchy is involved.
As I get used to it I'll get more expert in not replying to my own posts etc.
As far as my piss well there is no need to take it.
I will simply distribute it on you if you really are so insistent.
Your tone is very revealing.
I'm glad you published it.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xenotime]

37. All the ammo in the world will not protect the gun fundies from the US government

[Xithras]

42. I wouldn't be so sure about that.

There are 1.4 million active soldiers in all five branches of the U.S. military, and another 800k or so reservists. According to the most pessimistic of estimates, there are at least 52 million gun owners in the United States, and most estimates peg it closer to 75 million. And that's before even factoring in the number of soldiers who would abandon their posts when faced with fighting their countrymen while outnumbered 25 to 1.

[Xenotime]

43. you are leaving out the tanks, planes and other equipment

the military has to keep people in line. Your average citizen doesn't have that.

[Treo]

44. Neither do the Iraqis or the taliban NT

[Xithras]

45. Sure they would.

Been to a military base lately? Most are only lightly protected, and many bases don't even have MP's anymore and are protected by private security (seriously). How hard do you really think it wold be to capture those bases, often protected by nothing more than a chain link fence? What percentage of those 52 to 75 million American gun owners are also ex-military and know how to use that captured equipment? For that matter, what percentage of the OTHER 225 to 250 million American's who DON'T own firearms are ex-military, and would support an attempt to repel a dictatorial government?

It's like the old D&D rule...The Villagers Always Win. You can have better weapons, better technology, more training, and everything else going for you, but if you're outnumbered 30 to 1, you're not going to win no matter how hard you fight. The best you can hope for is to take a bunch of them with you.

[24601]

50. No, there are Soldiers on only one branch of the military. While

Department of the Navy Marines and Sailors, Air Force Airman, and Department of Homeland Security/Coast Guard Coasties might WANT to be Soldiers, you have to be in the Army to be a Soldier.

[hardtravelin]

62. This Soldier would not...

I (and most of the Soldiers I know) would not obey or permit such an order to be carried out.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

60. Just as long as I can defend myself against the criminals.

[boppers]

65. All the ammo in the world won't make gun fundies less fearful of the US government

That doesn't stop them from trying to amass ridiculous amounts to assuage their paranoia. :D

On the bright side, maybe this will lead to more skilled gunsmiths and reloaders, taking large corporate contractors (and Wal-Mart sales) out of the equation, and these folks will have another skill/trade.

[Blandocyte]

46. Get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan

so we can have 5.56, 9 mm and freakin' primers again.

Maybe that's how we can get the wingnuts behind the effort to disentangle us?

[No Elephants]

49. LOL, Guess who was busy unrecommendiing. Ed Shultz of MSNBC--and a gun owner--

stated this week how many billion rounds of ammo were sold last year. Can't remember if he said 7 billion rounds or 9 billion rounds. Either way, a staggering figure.

I likes me some Ed Schultz. He is smart and relatively liberal, yet so relatable, down to earth and "unsnarky." Great combo, when you are not content to preach only to the choir. Not that there is anything wrong with preaching to the choir. Someone has to get them singing, but we need someone who can get people to stay in the pews long enough for the altar call, too.

[old mark]

51. Yet another good reason to end the Bush wars now. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

59. I heard an ad today offering discounts.

[depakid]

66. Cowardly Americans afraid of their own shadows...

This is one nation that richly deserves its fate-