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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 03:39 AM
Original message
Venezuela accuses Colombians of spying while helping investigate killings of 10 men on border
Source: Associated Press

Venezuela accuses Colombians of spying while helping investigate killings of 10 men on border
Associated Press
Last update: October 26, 2009 - 10:22 PM

CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez's government accused Colombia on Monday of using its state security agency to spy on Venezuela while purportedly helping investigate the killings of eight Colombians. Venezuela sent a diplomatic protest note saying officials of Colombia's DAS state security agency were "detected carrying out espionage work and attempting to bribe." Venezuela did not give details in its statement but said authorities seized documents referring to a conspiracy to destabilize its government. It also demanded the DAS halt the espionage.

Colombia has offered help in investigating the slayings of 10 men — eight Colombians, a Venezuelan and a Peruvian — whose bodies were found in the Venezuelan border state of Tachira on Saturday. Venezuelan authorities have said relatives told them the men were kidnapped from a soccer field where their team was playing near the border Oct. 11.

The killings, which Venezuela says were likely carried out by one of the warring factions in Colombia's conflict, appear to be exacerbating already hostile relations between Chavez's government and the U.S.-allied administration in Bogota.

Colombian Foreign Minister Jaime Bermudez said it remains unclear what sort of armed group killed the men, or why. He said there are various hypotheses, including that the violence involved criminal organizations or guerrillas or militias.


Read more: http://www.startribune.com/world/66185737.html?elr=KArks%3ADCiUBcy7hUiD3aPc%3A_Yyc%3AaULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr
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edwardian Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. "...there are various hypotheses, including that the violence
involved criminal organizations or guerrillas or militias." Or an int'l intelligence agency trying to drum up public opinion against Pres. Chavez and "justify" a military ïntervention".
Uribe, once agai, has blood on his hands.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think Pentagon and CIA operatives, and possibly remnants of Rumsfeld's "Office of Special Plans,"
are quite busy in Colombia--on spying, war planning, colluding with fascists in Venezuela, developing US/Colombia integration of forces and equipping Colombia with high tech spying and psyops capabilities. I think what we are looking at there is VERY SIMILAR to Pentagon/CIA activities in South Vietnam, early in the war. They are equipping a proxy army ($6 BILLION in US taxpayer military aid), creating seven new US military bases (operated jointly) in addition to the existing one, and are helping to prop up a thuggish narco-fascist government. Colombia has one of the worst human rights records on earth. That is the optimum environment for US Pentagon/CIA operations.

An example of a situation that could become another "Gulf of Tonkin" (manufactured incident to trigger a war)--that is, a rehearsal of US/Colombia systems for creating such an incident--occurred early last year (March 2008), when Colombia hit a temporary FARC (leftist guerrilla) hostage release camp, just inside Ecuador's border, with ten 500 lb U.S. smart bombs, killing most of the 25 people who were sleeping there. The Ecuadoran military visited the site, reported on what likely caused the enormous craters, and said that Colombia was not capable of delivery those bombs. They believe that a US plane and pilot delivered them. Prior to the bombing (and raid over the border to shoot any survivors in the back--the Ecuadoran military found bodies in their pijamas shot in the back)--Colombia was tracking the guerrilla leader's (Raul Reyes') satellite phone (or so the story goes) and that is how they dropped the bombs on the right place (for maximum carnage. There are a lot of problems with this (Colombian) story. Among them, Reyes was an experienced guerrilla leader--he used a satellite phone and then did not immediately move elsewhere--as far away from that spot as he could get--before setting up a camp? In any case, what seems clear-and became clearer later, with the Colombian "rescue" of Ingrid Betancourt--is that the raid on Ecuador was conducted with very sophisticated war technology and was likely orchestrated from the "war room" in the US embassy in Bogota.

This incident almost caused a war between the US/Colombia and Ecuador/Venezuela. It also ended all talk of peace in Colombia's 40+ civil war. Reyes was engineering the release of FARC hostages in a bid for peace--and according to reports--was just about to release Ingrid Betancourt herself, in Ecuador, when the bombs fell. Spanish, Swiss and French envoys were in Ecuador for this purpose on the day of the bombing/raid, and were warned away from the area. These envoys, as well as Betancourt's husband, the President of Ecuador and others, all attested to this purpose of the Reyes temporary camp just inside Ecuador's border. Similar things occurred in South Vietnam in the early 1960s, stopping efforts toward peace in that divided country (including JFK's efforts to use the Diem government to arrange "neutral status" for Vietnam in the "Cold War (as with Laos)-- the CIA created violent incidents, and assassinated Diem--against JFK's orders--to prevent peace). (See "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters," by James Douglass.)

Another result of the bombing/raid on Ecuador was the infamous "miracle laptop" (later, laptopS), supposedly belonging to Raul Reyes, confiscated from the blown-away campsite, which Colombia has claimed--loudly, in a steady stream of pronouncements over the last two years--contain "evidence" that Chavez and Correa are "terrorist-lovers," take money from the FARC, give money to the FARC, were helping the FARC obtain a "dirty bomb," etc., etc., etc. This is a Rumsfeld specialty--manufacturing "evidence" as excuses for war--as we learned to our grief on Iraq. And, given Rumsfeld's interest in the matter at the time (12/1/07 op-ed in the Washington Post), I suspect that his "Office of Special Plans" was involved.

As I said, the optimum environment for US Pentagon/CIA operations is a puppet government, a civil war and generalized terror and mayhem--all of which they foster and perpetuate, and even create out of nothing.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the Pentagon has a war plan--specifically an oil war plan--in South America, probably designed by Rumsfeld and probably the alternative--Plan B--for obtaining sufficient oil to run the huge US war machine, after Plan A (extending the Iraq War to Iran) didn't work out. (Iran is too well defended; China and Russia might have come in, on Iran's side; US military brass balked at using nukes on Iran, and coordinated with others to oust Rumsfeld.) The South American plan is clearly still in motion--and involves securing the US military base in Honduras (President Zelalya had proposed converting it to a commercial airport), the seven new US military bases in Colombia, the enormous military aid to Colombia (second biggest US military aid package in the world), the reconstitution of the US 4th Fleet in the Caribbean and other indicators--not the least of which is the very intense and unjustified psyops/disinformation campaign against the Chavez government in Venezuela, and also against Correa in Ecuador and Morales in Bolivia.

All of this is expensive, unnecessary (to a peaceful policy in Latin America) and provocative. Even Brazil's president has expressed concern, and it was Brazil--not Venezuela--that proposed a South American "common defense" in the context of their new "common market," USASUR. (Lula da Silva has said that the US 4th Fleet poses a threat to Brazil's oil reserves.)

Another hint of how this war may be instigated was the US/Bushwhack collusion with white separatists in Bolivia, last September (2008). In fact, Ecuador's president has publicly stated that there is a coordinated rightwing plot to instigate civil war in three countries--Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia. The scenario in Bolivia involved split-off of the oil/gas rich eastern provinces into a fascist mini-state in control of Bolivia's main resources. Ecuador's and Venezuela's main oil reserves and operations are located in regions of these countries that are adjacent to Colombia (and in Venezuela's case also adjacent to the Caribbean). Rightwing politicians openly talk of secession in these regions. Morales in Bolivia--with UNASUR's full backing--acted quickly to quell the secession of Bolivia's eastern provinces, where the fascists were rioting, seizing an airport, shutting down a gas pipeline and machine-gunning peasant farmers. One of Morales' first acts was to throw the US ambassador out of the country. The insurrection was being funded and organized right out of the US embassy.

Whatever Barack Obama's intentions may be--and his stated policy is peace, respect and cooperation in Latin America--these war forces are extremely powerful, and seem to have their own momentum. It may be irrelevant who the president is. (The CIA very likely eliminated the only president who has ever stood against them--JFK.) (Read Douglass' book!) So, Venezuela is likely correct that Colombia is spying on them--and Colombia more than likely has a lot of help in that regard.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Obama is simply a tool of Coke Zero and the Illuminati....
:eyes:
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. If people devoted as much thought to the US as they're willing to obsess over Latin America
we might actually solve some of our own problems. But it's more fun to imagine CIA elements trudging around down there, huh? I like Tom Clancy novels, too.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. If you "obsessed" a little about Latin America you'd know
Uribe has been busted for domestic spying, that Eva Golinger's FOIA discovery showed a money trail from the State Department to the Santa Cruz separatists and that the organizers of the attempt on Morales operated out of an American fake human rights organization by four guys who fled to this country when their plot fell apart. Clancy couldn't make this up.

A lot of us have friends and family all over Latin America or are in Latin America or have dual citizenship. These are our problems.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I already have you doing my hand-wringing for me
I know that every time a child drops their ice cream cone in Caracas, someone here will post a 1000-word tome about how the event was set in motion by the CIA in 1954.

It amuses me. Please keep it up.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Ignore. eom
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm trying to, but it's just so funny. nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. You'd think somewhere in the pursuit of the advanced degree you claim
you'd have come across a way to distinguish between hand wringing and study as well as the information that 1000 words is only about four double spaced pages. Hardly a "tome".
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. My original offer to you stands. Any amount of my money against $5K of yours
that I have the advanced degree you're sneering at. But escrow it first, because I'm actually serious.

And 1000 words on an internet discussion board is indeed a tome, especially as regards Latin America. I would be less dismissive if the Hugonauts were maybe 1% more discriminating and analytical, but that isn't going to happen.

Not that I really want it to, because it's entertaining to me.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Hey, I can do short posts! How about this?
:rofl: :tinfoilhat: :rofl:

But whatever does it mean?

:patriot:
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-27-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Read & bookmarked for future reference. n/t
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
13. More of our fucking CIA shenanigans, no doubt.
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