Spain's left turn: what next for terror war?

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0315/dailyUpdate.html?s=entt

Media analyze implications of Spain's surprise elections.

By Matthew Clark | csmonitor.com

Last Thursday's deadly terrorist attacks in Madrid thrust Spain's elections into the world spotlight. The surprise results from Sunday's elections now grab headlines around the world as the press takes a look at what it all means.

The leader of Spain's victorious Socialists, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, said Monday he would likely withdraw Spain's 1,300 troops from Iraq in June. "The war has been a disaster, the occupation continues to be a disaster. It has only caused violence," Mr. Zapatero said.

"There must be consequences. There has been one already – the election result. The second will be that the Spanish troops will come back," he said. "Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush must do some reflection and self-criticism. You can't bomb a people, you can't organize a war with lies," he told Spain's Cadena SER radio station.

Zapatero repeated a previous campaign pledge to pull out troops if the United Nations does not take charge by mid-year.

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[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[muriel_volestrangler]

3. They are not siding against the USA

they have rejected a government that supported an unjustified invasion; and that was pushing their theories of who did the bombing, in the face of increasing contrary evidence (rather like Bush pushed his theory of where the WMD risk was, in the face of increasing evidence that he was lying his head off).

[fishnfla]

4. Therefore, they will not punish the bombers?

Is that what you are implying? And if they do happen to arrest and punish the terrorists, guess what happens then?

And just what exactly do the terrorist bombers want? Why do they fight the jihad? The socialists who won the election, will they turn Spain into an Islamic state?

I see no end to the bloodshed, from either side.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

7. What makes you think the terrorists want Spain to become an Islamic state?

What the terrorists consistently say is that they want foreign forces out of THEIR land, not that they want to take over YOUR land.

[fishnfla]

12. my (limited) understanding of their monotheistic world view

is that the nations of Islam always advance, never recede. Converting-happy Christians hold a same view IMO, hence more bloodshed

[NNN0LHI]

5. "You can't bomb a people, you can't organize a war with lies"

Some people will never learn. And the Cokehead In Chief is one who will never learn. Its pathetic.

Don

[Just Me]

6. Oh, you thing? Well, I thing that you have it wrong.

I thing that the citizens of Spain refuse to be ruled by fear-wielding, war-mongers; including right-wing radicals, neoconspiracists (*smile*) and the al Qaeda and Wahabbis and other extremist holy rollers. That's what I thing.

[ithacan]

8. no, you've got it wrong. It's Bush who is against the USA

he's the one who's doing everything he can to drag this country down, create enemies, provoke attacks.

All so he and his buddies can hang on to power.

Pretty disgusting, don't you think?

[maggrwaggr]

11. are you still here?

the moderators must be having a long dinner.

See this post, pal, get yourself some education. The invasion of Iraq didn't have jack shit to do with terrorism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1232343

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. Tombstoned but the post is still there. (nt)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

13. Hehe.

Enjoy your stay at DU while it lasts.

[teryang]

2. What surprise?

80 percent of the Spanish people opposed the war in Iraq. The election results are an I told you so.

[chenGOD]

30. Yeah, why are people surprised?

This is democracy in action.

[maggrwaggr]

9. the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism

and I wish people would quit pretending it did.

See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1232343

[chelsea0011]

29. And I can't believe we still have to point out that out

At this point you would think everyone would get it. Iraq was to settle old scores. It had nothing to do with 9-11. The spanish people know this. They want the true terrorists dealt with, not getting their troops killed in Iraq. Spain has been fighting terroism for years. I think the people of Spain understand their own issues. They ousted the current party for lying to them. Just like what will happen here in Nov.

[freeforall]

10. Spain has guts!

They were pissed about participating in the war, and they acted and voted out the party that supported it. No fuss, no quibbling, no indecision.

Now - there's a lesson here America!

Don't even hesitate to vote out Bush in November.

[Cheswick2.0]

18. so, if we were to do the same thing would we have to vote out

both the republicans and the democrats? Much to my shame and disgust, my party also supported the Iraq war.
I am only asking. If the democratic party had actually opposed the war the election in Nov would be so much easier.

[leesa]

14. Why not end it? It's a foolish, juvenile idea anyway.

Can't wage war against a technique. Especially when waging the war results in a terrorism faaar greater than that you are fighting against.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[NNN0LHI]

21. Welcome to DU Von_Moltki. You are right. Spain made a huge mistake

Their mistake was allowing their government to get themselves involved in an unwinnable war by our Crackhead In Chief. That was their mistake. They seem well on their way to reversing that mistake while our country is still swinging out at anything Muslim. Don't make any difference if they are a threat to us or not. Little George don't like the way they look, he just takes them out. "Bring Them On!". Using someone else's blood to do so of course though. Wouldn't want to muss his hair. Thats why he had his daddy get him into a Champaign air national guard unit and sent someone else to go off to Vietnam to die in his place.

And you are right that the lack of Imams, or prominent Muslim clerics denouncing this crime is very noticeable. Just as noticeable as the lack of condemning the wests weeks of "Shock And Awe" on Iraq by priests, ministers, and rabbis was.

Don

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[NNN0LHI]

23. Do they hate us for our freedoms?

Or is it because they don't want me taking my children to attend mass at Notre Dame? What is it? Why do they hate us? Do you know?

Don

[bemildred]

24. I think they hate Mom and Apple Pie or something.

I gather they turn green and get really, really big when they are mad too.

[Simard]

26. I'm not sure why?

The Iraqi people are not absolutely better off since the US occupation. At least 8000 innocent civilians have died. They currently have the highest unemployment rate they have had in recent history. And, their lives are in danger every day because of the emergence of terrorism. Terrorism that could have been avoided if a wiser more internationalist approach was taken to oust Saddam's regime.

The point to get from this is not deceived by the rhetoric of the Bush led west or the "Islamo Fascists." Iraq was a bad place to live while under Saddam and it is bad place to live in under Bush.

[Nihil]

28. Greetings Von_Moltki

Which part of "outside the U.S." do you come from?
I'm just wondering as you appear to get Fox News there as well.

I'd like to know how the Iraqi people "know they are better off and
fighting the foriegn (sic) Islamo Facists (sic) within their mists (sic)".
The only place I've seen that view presented is from RW media outlets.
The independent media and the left wing media seem to agree that there
is still a slight problem over there, a problem caused and maintained
by the "Alliance".

> Don't you get it, these people hate you and everything (including
> Kerry) that you stand for.

On the contrary, I do get it - more so than you do.
"These people" don't hate me at all.
They hate the things that my government has done in my name.
They hate the sudden increase in new graves in their country.
They hate the pain, the injuries that their children have suffered.
They hate being used as a political football by people thousands of
miles away, people who really don't give a shit about the odd minute
of news in that tiny "Rest of the World" slot - the one after the ten
minute section on a missing dog in one of the suburbs and just before
the adverts for dog-food and haemorrhoid cream.

From their perspective, noone "over here" cares about their plight and
that equates to supporting the government's actions by their inaction.

If they decide that maybe they need to bring their suffering to our
attention, what makes OUR friends, relatives, children more important
than theirs? Why should THEIR civilians be slaughtered without a word
if the death of some of ours creates such an outcry?

Can't you see the inequality here? The double standard? The pain?

Nihil

[Vladimir]

31. 'Those people are better off'

really? You must be referring to the 10,000 civilians dead since the end of the war. Or the 3 million out of a job. Or maybe you are referring to to the thousands in jail, many on ludicrously trumped up charges? Hmmm...

The ones better off now are:

- Halliburton and other Western companies given no-bid contracts to
steal Iraqi resources

- Al Qaida, who have suddenly found the worlds biggest recruitment
centre

All together now: Things, can only get better... can only get better

V

[Nihil]

32. Yep, and don't forget ...

... the ones who have been struggling in the dark since "we" blew up
the power lines, the ones who have been suffering the effects of fouled
water since "we" blew up the processing plants, the ones whose jobs
went away since "we" took over, the ones whose businesses have been
superseded since "we" brought in Halliburton/Bechtel/B&R/.. contractors,
the ones who suffered from the "evil" Iraqi police force and now see the
same people being given the same jobs back, ... oh yes, they are all
SO much better off now ...

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Imam denounces bombs as evil

MUSLIMS MOURN: More than 1,000 Muslims gathered at an ornate mosque in Madrid on Friday for the funeral of a Moroccan killed in the terror attacks, with many fearing a backlash against Islam if the bombings were carried out by Al Qaeda.

Imam Ali El Messery denounced the bombings, saying "This is a crime that not even animals would commit."

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/spain13_20040313.htm

Happy now?

[tlcandie]

19. Can someone help me here? What countries have not had

terrorism due to Islamic fundamentalists and who has not backed or fronted wars against the Islamic worlds?

I want people to see who get attacked and who do not! It's really quite easy. Let us alone and we leave you alone!

I be Australia is starting to sweat bullets as well as other allies :o

[ConcernedCanuk]

20. "The war has been a disaster, the occupation continues to be a disaster."

.
.
.

That's the plain truth now isn't it?

The war in Iraq hasn't done a THING to decrease terror threats in the world, if anything, it has increased it. I mean, I still don't get why they didn't concentrate on Afghanistan and Osama if indeed Osama is the perpetrator of 911 and other attacks.

I still believe that George Bush just plain took advantage of Americans' fear and anger to "bait and switch" to justify his and his father's personal agenda regarding Saddam Hussein.

From the posted Article:

"voters turned out in record numbers, many to channel their anger at President Jose Maria Aznar's staunch support of the US-led war in Iraq. Mr. Aznar's move to send troops to Iraq was a decision most Spaniards opposed. It is also, in the minds of many voters, the primary reason for the last Thursday's deadly attacks. The Monitor cites a participant in a rally at the Atocha train station, where two of the four trains exploded, as saying: "The government put us into that war in Iraq, and this is what happens. Aznar didn't plant the bombs, but he's guilty for what happened."

/snip/

But Spain's vote offers disappointing evidence to the contrary. In Sanger's analysis, "The Bush administration must now fight the perception, accurate or not, that acts of terror against America's allies can sway nations into rethinking the wisdom of standing too closely with Mr. Bush."

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I wholly applaud the Spanish people for ousting the leader that got them into the war in Iraq.

I just hope that Zapatero stays out of the crosshairs of the BFEE's vengeful gang of thugs . .

[number6]

25. That's the plain truth ....

"The war has been a disaster, the occupation continues to be a disaster."

...damn right it is !!!! !!!!