Chavez threatens to cut off oil to U.S.

[oberliner]

Source: CNN

(CNN) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Sunday said his country will stop exporting oil to the United States if there is a military attack stemming from escalating tensions between Venezuela and Colombia.

Speaking at a political rally, Chavez warned of a military attack from Colombia, and accused the United States of being behind such an attack.

"The Yankee empire has no limit to its manipulation," Chavez said.

Colombia and Venezuela are at odds over accusations that Colombian rebels have found refuge in Venezuela. Colombia called an emergency meeting of the Organization of American States last week, in which it provided photos that it said were evidence of camps belonging to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia -- known by its Spanish abbreviation, FARC -- in Venezuela.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/07/25/venezuela.chavez.us/?hpt=T2

[sharp_stick]

1. Sure Hugo sure...

I'll believe that when I see it.

[Subdivisions]

27. You've miscalculated...

Venezuela DOES NOT NEED US in order to sell its oil. In fact, while we are blasting our way into sovereign countries and stealing their oil, China is securing its energy resources the old-fashioned way: business men in business suit using business-class airline tickets to negotiate and sign traditional business contracts.

I keep trying to discuss the U.S.'s oil situation on this board but no one EVER wants to address it.

[Judi Lynn]

29. They'd rather kill a lot of people first, then steal it, apparently, according to tradition. n/t

[lib2DaBone]

37. You are correct Subdivisions.. I have tried to point this out numerous times...

.. only to get flam ned or some nonsense.

China has been busy the last 5 years signing shipping contracts, port lease deals and container sights all over the globe... while the United States sit s and argues about gay adoption and birth control.

Our kids are dying in a combat zone in Afghanistan while Pallets of U.S. Dollars are shipped out of Kandahar airport. never to be seen again.

China controls the Panama Canal.. has giant Container Ports in the Bahamas and has signed strategic agreements with China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela.. on and on.

Tell me.. who are the fools?

[The Croquist]

54. You are right but Venezuela needs the US to maximize profits

It is 2148 nautical miles from Venezuela to Houston. Not using the Panama canal (and Super tankers can't) it is 15,000 miles to China.

I'm not to worried about China's dealings with Venezuela. Hugo will just void the contract if the mood fits him.

[Subdivisions]

62. Yea another miscalculation:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/china-eyes-panama-canal-expansion/story-e6frg90o-1225827691243

...snip...

It is clear, however, that the widened canal, as both an import and export route, will become a prime conduit for Chinese-driven global trade. One effect will be to make transport costs of finished goods from China to the East Coast of America much cheaper -- perhaps by 30 per cent, according to the canal's operating company.

When the work is finished, the canal will be navigable by tankers with capacity of a million barrels of crude oil. That, in turn, will open new routes whereby oil and mineral resources from West Africa can be taken directly to China -- deepening political bonds that Beijing has carefully fostered in that region.

The same dynamic could also bolster China's influence in the Caribbean, expected to develop as a storage hub for oil before it heads west through the canal and on to China. Economists at Goldman Sachs believe that the new canal could play a pivotal role in its Bric (Brazil, Russia, India, China) investment story -- as a channel more directly linking the Chinese and Brazilian markets.

By the time that the expansion work is finished in 2014, the canal will be able to take ships capable of holding 12,600 containers -- more than double the capacity of the "Panamax" ships that represent the canal's present size limit.

...snip...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/china-eyes-panama-canal-expansion/story-e6frg90o-1225827691243


Like I said, while we force ourselves on resource producers, in some case blasting their asses with J-DAMs, Predators, and a 100,000 of our family and friends, the Chinese are doing things the traditional way: good business practice.

[Judi Lynn]

2. Even Fox News shows a more honest headline to this story than that one:

Chavez threatens to suspend US oil sales if Venezuela attacked by neighboring Colombia

Published July 25, 2010
| Associated Press

CARACAS, Venezuela

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — President Hugo Chavez threatened on Sunday to halt oil sales to the United States if Venezuela faces any military attack by its U.S.-allied neighbor Colombia.

Chavez said in a speech to thousands of supporters that if there is an "armed aggression against Venezuela" from Colombia backed by the U.S., "we would suspend shipments of oil."

Chavez said that "we wouldn't send one more drop" of oil to the United States, which is the top buyer of oil from the South American country.

If actually carried out, such a threat would be titanic economic blow for Chavez's government, which depends heavily on oil sales. It's likely Chavez made the warning in part to put the U.S. and Colombia on notice that he will not stand for a more aggressive international campaign to denounce allegations that leftist Colombian rebels are finding safe haven in Venezuela.

The Venezuelan leader cut off diplomatic relations with Colombia on Thursday after outgoing President Alvaro Uribe's government presented photos, videos and maps of what it said were Colombian rebel camps inside Venezuela.

Chavez called it an attempt to smear his government and said Uribe could be trying to lay the groundwork for an armed conflict.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/25/chavez-threatens-suspend-oil-sales-venezuela-attacked-colombia/

[The Northerner]

3. Hasn't he issued similar threats numerous times before?

[Judi Lynn]

4. Dunno. Do you have any examples? n/t

[boppers]

5. Psst, Hugo: Oil sales don't work that way.

Thanks for playing, though.

[Billy Burnett]

6. Maybe it'll drive the price /barrel up.

Then there will be more oil revenues for the Venezuelan government to invest in the social infrastructure.

[nyy1998]

13. Not neccesarily

Higher prices due to not having the US would mean fewer exports of oil. So prices would be higher, but they'd be importing less. This strategy could only work if China and India comes in to make up for lost sales.

[Judi Lynn]

7. How do you run YOUR Presidency? He could use some pointers from you. n/t

[boppers]

12. If he's willing to IM or email me, I'm willing to explain simple things to him.

:shrug:

[sabrina 1]

40. In civilized countries they do. We otoh, prefer to

topple democratically elected governments, kill as many civilians as it takes, torture, displace, imprison and maim millions more, allow our own soldiers to die, install a puppet government, the more oppressive the better, and then have them sign their oil over to our big Oil Corps buddies, like our corrupt, human rights abuser friends and overlords at BP. And Voila, problem solved! Just one question, what do the American people get out of it other than dead soldiers and more enemies around the world?

Of course we could just buy it, the old-fashioned way.

I wouldn't worry about Venezuela, China, Russia and India will probably make up the difference, and of course, none of this needs to happen if we put a stop to any thoughts of using the corrupt Colombian genocidal government to invade Venezuela. We have an addiction to war and killing. An intervention is long overdue.

[boppers]

51. In civilized countries, oil is sold to companies, not states.

Chavez could refuse to sell to companies with any American ownership, in which case, he's refusing to sell oil.

The state sells/licenses drilling/capture to companies, capture companies sell to other transport companies, transport companies sell to refineries, refineries sell products to marketing companies, refined products are sold by those companies to consumers (and/or other companies.... do you have "mineral oil" in your house, and do you know what the original source if it was?).

Note the lack of "state sales" anywhere in the above chain, other than origin.

The sheer level of absurdity might be similar to Chavez threatening to prevent "Venezuelan water"... from being purchasable in Florida.

[sabrina 1]

53. You underestimate Chavez.

He has been moving away from depending on the U.S. oil market for some time now. Deals being made now are likely to reduce the role of private oil corps in the energy business as more and more countries nationalize their oil.

While the U.S. is preparing to take Venezuela's oil by force, China and others are doing it the old fashioned way. "Dollar Diplomacy" the Chinese call it.

When Chavez extended a hand of friendship to Obama, it was rejected. China meantime, took the extended hand and made an investment in the future for both countries. No costly war, no invasion, no CIA. Instead, contracts, agreements, and profits for everyone. No one dies, and everyone is happy. China has now surpassed the U.S. in energy consumption so I think Chavez is making wise decisions for his country.

Venezuela, China Sign Oil Deals

CARACAS -- Venezuela and China gave a new boost to their thriving economic ties Tuesday, signing a package of agreements that advances China strategy of locking in access to the South American country's vast oil reserves.

That could have been us ... another missed opportunity.

You also need to revise your thinking on private oil corps being the only way to sell oil. The world is changing, and if we don't stop thinking WAR is the only way, we are going to be left behind. Here is some information that directly relates to your comment:

Hugo Chavez moves to diversify sale of Venezuelan oil away from US refineries

The communist government's ability to sit down and negotiate broad loan agreements with foreign governments in places like Caracas or Brasilia may help it reduce the role of major oil companies just when much of global oil reserves are in the hands of state-controlled oil companies like Venezuela's Petroleos de Venezuela, or Brazil's Petroleo Brasileiro.

......

“China is not as concerned as they used to be about irritating the US,” said Michael Shifter, president of the Inter-American Dialogue, a Washington-based think-tank. “I think they will continue to be very aggressive about investing in places like Venezuela.”

See? The demise of private corps is happening faster than expected. Even the U.S. is taking steps towards nationalizing our oil:

Nationalized Oil To Fund Climate Change Efforts

Congress has voted to place ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, and other major oil companies under public stewardship, with the bulk of the companies’ profits put in a public trust administered by the United Nations, and used for alternative energy research and development in order to solve the global climate crisis.

“We can do what needs to be done,” said Senator Charles Schumer, Democrat of New York. “Our planet’s survival is at stake. Plus, public pressure hasn’t given us much of a choice.”

.....

The climate crisis may or may not be real,” declared Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, Republican of Texas. “I’m an agnostic and I’m staying that way. But sea level rise has been overblown. And one thing I’m sure of, is that nationalizing private industry is just another name for theft.”

“The private oil interests have been involved in theft for decades,” responded Deputy Under Secretary of the E.P.A. Gavin Newsom. “They’ve stolen our air, our oceans, our health, and our land. They’ve proven they can’t run their business without massive theft.”

Obama made a huge mistake by not taking the opportunity to get in there before the Chinese. While Chavez looks to the future, towards a more peaceful way, the U.S. stays in the past.

I was hoping that a new administration would join the rest of the world and leave that bloody past behind. But it was not to be. We are mired in the past. Same old cold war politics that has cost this country and others so much. While the rest of the world moves forward ...

[digitaln3rd]

8. How cute.

Venezuela has their own President Bush these days.

Go away Chavez.. everyone is tired of your act.

[Judi Lynn]

30. The majority of Venezuelans clearly are not "tired of his act" and they are the ones who matter. n/t

[Hawkowl]

46. Que?

Es tu loco?

[SILVER__FOX52]

9. Photos? What kind of photos.

Satelite photos?

[onehandle]

10. 'Petty dictator says stuff. Film at 11.' nt

[EFerrari]

22. Embarrassing.

[Zorro]

11. Perhaps a surtax on Venezuelan oil imports is called for

[COLGATE4]

14. Just more of Fearless Leader's bluster NT

[roamer65]

15. It'll will drive up sales of fuel efficient cars and that would be a good thing.

So embargo away, Hugo.

[24601]

16. Cut away, asshat, then look up "fungible" - hint:: it's not that green

shit growing between your toes.

[davidinalameda]

17. the Yankee Empire?

doesn't he know that George Steinbrenner is dead?

[Turbineguy]

18. Chavez overreaches himself.

Venezuelan oil is just about the worst oil on the planet.

[EFerrari]

24. How do you overreach protecting your country?

[Judi Lynn]

25. Take up your peeves with the Venezuelan people who WANT him for President,

and even are the only people in history to learn their elected leader was being kidnapped, and lied to that he had resigned, and stormed the palance gates, and reversed the coup the filth of the country, the racist filth oligarchs were trying to ennact.

They poured into the streets, surrounded the building complex, and DEMANDED he be returned to office.

That's NOT a man who has overreached, in THEIR eyes, and THEY are the ones who count, no matter how many human dregs in the Pentagon and the State Department conspire to destroy him.

[Cal Carpenter]

19. Good god

reading the replies on this thread makes the Democrats look like a right wing party.

Fuck man.

God forbid someone 'threaten' to remove their energy supply from the global capitalist market. God forbid anyone challenge the sanctity of cheap 'unlimited' oil and corporate profits. Especially when that person has been elected (more than once) by the people of his country to support *their* interests and is being militarily threatened.

Goddamn. Is Chavez a bit of a reactionary? Sure. Does he have much of a choice when constantly confronted by the military and financial force of most of the developed world? Not really.

[harmonicon]

21. yeah, it's pretty sad

Just remember that these people are knee-jerk reactionaries who will demean any socialist, just given the opportunity. It doesn't matter what the topic is - Chavez is their whipping boy. Thought doesn't even enter the picture.

[Hydra]

35. That seems to be a plague spreading through our party

I had no idea most of my fellow partymembers secretly wanted to be like the people on the other side of the fence.

[zenprole]

39. Nice Response

Yeah, this thread is awash in hardline, right-wing, Democratic Party bluster - a slightly more literate form of teabagger posturing. Such responses are the strongest evidence that we don't have an opposition party in the US.

Whatever his faults, we wish we had a president with half the humanity of Chavez...and the cojones to back it up. Check out The Revolution Will Not Be Televised (2003).

As for oil revenues, another response here is right on target: China has been building business links with Venezuela, so there's no money to be lost. Also, China won't blink if the US tries any Monroe Doctrine nonsense. If the US gets aggressive, China just might decide to shut down exports to Wal-Mart or stop buying T-bills.

[Zorro]

43. Chavez has declared himself to be a US adversary

It's not surprising that Democrats are offended by his strident anti-Americanism.

He's attempting to create a lot of regional instability, and that is not in the interest of peace.

[laughingliberal]

48. I'd be surprised if he hadn't declared himself an adversary after the CIA attempted coup.

WTF??? Was that supposed to endear us to him?

[Cal Carpenter]

59. First of all, Chavez *is* American

America is a couple of continents, remember.

Second of all, as the info on this thread about the free heating oil he has provided to US citizens in need demonstrates, he has nothing against the US-American people as a whole - no, it's the ECONOMIC system and our leaders who prop it up that concerns him, that he is reacting to.

Regional instability has been created for decades by military and other involvement in the region by the US and other forces supporting western capitalists in the name of 'the drug war' and 'development' and 'spreading democracy'.

I have criticisms of Chavez, don't get me wrong. But to imply that HE is the cause of regional instability after his country (and region) have been meddled with and fucked with for decades, well, that's just absurd.

[digitaln3rd]

64. It would be nice to have a president like Chavez who routinely shuts down media outlets and demonstr

It would be nice to have a president like Chavez who routinely shuts down media outlets and demonstrations just because they express and opposing view?

I don't think so. Face it - once a dictator always a dictator.

[RC]

20. Nobody is asking who is financing/equipping the Columbian rebels

Why not?

[ProudDad]

26. Nobody is asking who is financing/eqiupping the Colombian death squads

and the Colombian military...

The REAL wholesale killers in Columbia...

and who has military forces poised to strike at the Bolivarian Revolution from Columbia...

to the tune of a few billion dollars a year...

(not to mention who's transporting some of the drugs (hint: initials are CIA)...)


Hell, I'll send the "Colombian Rebels" a few bucks myself -- the ally of my friend is occasionally my ally...

[rabs]

23. The AP and the DU Hugo bashers ignore or forget ...

HELP FROM HUGO CHAVEZ: FREE HEATING OIL FOR NEEDY U.S. FAMILIES

Close to 200,000 poor families in 15 cold-weather states -- in every Northeastern state except New Hampshire -- can thank controversial Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez for helping them heat their homes this winter.

The Venezuelan-controlled oil-refining company, Citgo Petroleum Corp., donated 45 million gallons of free home heating oil this winter in a move that bought good publicity for the country's socialist leader, who famously called President Bush "the devil" in a 2006 United Nations speech.

(More)

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/797/heating-oil-chavez-venezuela

-------------

CHAVEZ RESTORES FREE HOME HEATING OIL PROGRAM TO US POOR

By Tyler Bridges, McClatchy Newspapers / January 9, 2009

Caracas, Venezuela
The Venezuelan government reversed course Wednesday, announcing that its US oil subsidiary would continue to provide free home heating oil to poor Americans two days after the government announced that the program had been suspended.

Critics of President Hugo Chávez had pummeled him since Monday for suspending a program that he had milked for its maximum publicity as a champion of the poor, even in the US.

In the wake of Monday's announced halt, analysts had predicted this was only the first of Mr. Chávez's ambitious foreign assistance programs that would disappear, given the sharp drop in oil prices and the Venezuelan government's dependence on oil export income.

Venezuelan government officials wasted no time in reinstating the program, which saved some 180,000 US households around $260 apiece in 2008. That covered about one month's heating bill.

Among the beneficiaries of the 100 gallons of heating oil per household were 65 Indian tribes, including those in Alaska, Montana, and South Dakota.

(More)

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2009/0109/p25s02-woam.html

[Judi Lynn]

28. This is a valuable post you've placed. I've got to save it for future reference.

That's the first time I've seen this plan spelled out so clearly. Simply wonderful.

Have heard about the oil arrangement since the very first year, after the Democratic Congressmen, or governors, etc. from the original states, and the delegates from the indigenous tribes of the United States had already gone to the U.S. oil companies, had begged them for special rates for their poorer citizens, and were completely blown off by the executives. They all had done the footwork, each one, and had been flatly REJECTED before they ever considered going to Venezuela to ask for help.

All this assistance over these years, and the idiot Republicans can only ridicule and rage against the idea these needly people have been helped when they need assistance perhaps even to make it through the winters, after being shut out by companies in their own country who can't be tempted to modify their demands from the most helpless among us in the depths of winter.

[laughingliberal]

49. I haven't forgotten.

When * wanted to act like frozen old people was just tough shit, Chavez stepped up and got affordable heating oil to may of our poor. How unusual. A leader that cares about the poor, even the poor in another country.

[w4rma]

31. Simple solution. Don't support military aggression, directly or through a third party, against

Venezuela. Everybody is happy, then. We get out oil and Venezuela isn't turned into a battlefield.

[CHIMO]

32. Alberta

May take up the proposal.

[NickB79]

63. Oh goody, They can build more toxic wastewater holding lakes visible from space

As they open-pit mine hundreds of square miles of tar sands and release 3X as much CO2 as conventional oil production to satisfy our oil addiction.

Whew, I was worried there for a second :sarcasm:

[Fearless]

33. What? Is everything out fault now?

[Zorro]

34. Chavez is an attention whore who needs the US boogeyman

to divert attention from his mismanagement of the Venezuelan economy and the infiltration of Cubans in his government.

[ProudDad]

36. You really are just a one-trick-pony, aren't you?

Just a boring, self-described anti-Chavista...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=107339

[Zorro]

38. So do you disagree that Chavez has mismanaged the economy?

Or do you object to that being pointed out, ProudDud?

[sabrina 1]

42. Who mismanaged OUR economy?

You'd think it was Chavez the way some people froth at the mouth every time he is mentioned.

Last I heard, our economy hasn't been this bad since the Great Depression. And, it has brought down the economies of the rest of the world.

Chavez has reduced poverty in Venezuela by about 20% since he took over. We have INCREASED poverty over the same period of time.

I have to laugh at the desperate attempts by America to try to distract from our own problems.

[Zorro]

44. You really can't stay on-topic, can you?

And I don't think the US economy is experiencing negative 5% growth.

[Zorro]

45. And I'm still waiting for your clarification in the other thread

about the US's "brutal past and our criminal interference" in Ecuador.

[sabrina 1]

47. The U.S.s brutal past and interference in South and Central

American countries is well known. Death squades, School of the Americas trained murderers sent back to their respective countries to destabalize governments that were not rightwing.

Ecuador had a several thousand of these killers trained by the U.S. sent back to undermine the country's government and to join the CIA in keeping the usual 'watch lists' of individuals and families who they deemed to be too far to the left.

Ecuador still doesn't trust this country. Just last year they kicked out two of our 'dimplomats' who, the Ecuadorans say, 'were arrogant, interfering in the appointment of our Chief of Police'. Ecuador was outraged at what they called the colonial attitude of these U.S. diplomats towards Ecuador. All in the name of the phony Drug War. I was hoping a Democratic administration would end Reagan Policies in that part of the world.

But, we haven't changed have we, still interfering, still keeping our School of the Americas trained killers in these countries ready to effect a coup when needed. But with the recent past still fresh in the minds of many of these countries, Ecuador, Venezuela, Chile and more, the U.S. is finding it a bit more difficult to continue its bloody history in that region of the world.

I hope these emerging democracies prevail this time, and remain free of Colonial Powers.

As for sticking to the subject, I know you'd like us to help you 'catapult the propaganda', after all it's costing the U.S government quite a bit of money, money we could use there to create jobs btw, but I AM sticking to the subject. I am pointing out some facts that are very relevant to the subject.

[laughingliberal]

52. +1000 nt

[Zorro]

58. You seem to equate your imagination with "fact"

"Ecuador had a several thousand of these killers trained by the U.S..." What a hoot, and a fabrication complete with supporting hysterical language and the always-present reference to the CIA.

"Just last year they kicked out two of our 'dimplomats' who, the Ecuadorans say, 'were arrogant, interfering in the appointment of our Chief of Police'.

The US did would give carte-blanche access to US-funded grant money for counternarcotics training, because the US wanted to approve who would take the training. Not a particularly demanding request, based on the level of corruption known to exist.

But Correa was so outraged at this request he announced he was "kicking" one diplomat out, and when he embarrassingly discovered the guy had already been gone for a month, "kicked" another one out. Because he didn't want the US to have any say-so in how US money was to be used.

So those are your "facts" about the US' "brutal past and our criminal interference" in Ecuador? Making shit up and asserting it as "fact" doesn't really make it true, don't you know?

Oh, you probably don't know.

Here's a suggestion. You and the other Chicken Littles should form the Chicken Little Uncovering Conspiracies Klub, or CLUCK for short. Then you and the other CLUCKers can have a jolly good time blaming all sorts of events on the CIA, the US military, US corporations, the Obama Administration, and the Boy Scouts of America -- they're obviously part of the international cabal, since they have that dirty word "America" in their name.

[laughingliberal]

50. Yes, I disagree.

See, I don't define 'mismanaging the economy' as bringing down the oligarchs.

[greiner3]

41. Oil is a limited quanity;

Any oil produced in the world now will be sold to someone. Just as the oil produced in Alaska and sent via pipeline to southern Alaska and sold to Japan, oil produced in Venezuela will be sold to some country. The market demands it.

[treestar]

55. Then they would not get the money for the oil

so there's no real advantage there.

[timo]

60. card shuffling

at best, venzuela has heavy crude, harder to refine, not everybodys set up for it, so if they withold their heavy crude, some other country will buy it, some other country buys it, they in turn buy less from somewhere else...we buy more.....its all just smoke and mirrors by that assclown dictator!!

[Peace Patriot]

56. Just want to mention the basis of Venezuela's and Ecuador's concern about being attacked

by Colombia in a front operation for the real rulers of the U.S. (Exxon Mobil & brethren).

1. This scenario--using the FARC as the excuse for war--was rehearsed in March 2008, when the U.S./Colombia dropped ten 500 lb U.S. "smart bombs" on the FARC's temporary hostage release camp just inside Ecuador's border, nearly starting a war between Ecuador/Venezuela and the U.S./ Colombia, then and there (and ending all talk of peace in Colombia's 40+ year civil war). All of Latin America objected and forced Colombia's current outgoing leader, Alvaro Uribe, to apologize and promise never to violate another country's territory again. Colombia's in-coming leader, former Defense Minister Manuel Santos, however, said, at the time, that he would do it AGAIN. The Economist (corpo-fascist rag) recently said that Uribe was "erratic" and "naive." Not so Santos--the Pentagon's boy--a Latin Rumsfeld, in my opinion. He would not hesitate to be the Pentagon's tool in starting a war.

2. These wild, unfounded accusations against Venezuela, re "harboring the FARC," resemble the prelims for that incident.

3. The U.S. is larding the Colombian military with $7 BILLION in U.S. taxpayer funded military aid. Uribe (in my opinion, under duress of losing CIA protection from prosecution for his many crimes) recently signed a secretly negotiated U.S./Colombia military agreement (arranged by the Bushwhack U.S. ambassador to Colombia, Wm Brownfield, who is still in place) which includes U.S. military use of SEVEN Colombian military bases, U.S. military use of all civilian infrastructure in Colombia, and total diplomatic immunity for U.S. soldiers and U.S. military 'contractors,' no matter what they do in Colombia. Colombia--where union leaders are routinely slaughtered by the Colombian military and its death squads--is also Hillary Clinton's pick for a new "free trade for the rich" agreement, because its criminal government has insured a large slave labor pool* and U.S. corps want free access to its resources and land. Colombia is a U.S. client state, run by a very bloody-handed, very criminal rich elite, propped up by the U.S. They do nothing without Washington's OK. Their psyops are the CIA's/Pentagon psyops. Their lies are the CIA's/Pentagon's lies. Their aggression will be the CIA's/Pentagon's aggression. It is all designed here.

4. The coup in Honduras. The plane carrying the kidnapped president out of Honduras at gunpoint stopped at the U.S. military base in Honduras for refueling. Subsequent U.S. actions also clearly point to U.S. complicity in the coup. One of the Pentagon's motives was to secure its war assets in Honduras--traditional (Reagan era) steppingstone for U.S. aggression in the region (main target is probably the leftist government of Nicaragua, an ally of Venezuela). And the death squad curse has hit Honduras, with about a hundred union leaders and other leftist activists murdered, and thousands beaten, jailed, raped. One of Zelaya's crimes was raising the minimum wage for U.S. corp sweatshop workers and Chiquita farm workers. Honduras is now back under U.S./corporate/Pentagon control. This has sent trepidations throughout Latin America, about a new U.S. era of bloody interference and domination. And everybody knows that Venezuela is the main target, and Ecuador the secondary target--both with lots and lots of oil, the profits from which are now being "wasted" on benefits to the poor.

5. Other evidence of U.S. ill intentions: The reconstitution of the U.S. 4th Fleet in the Caribbean (mothballed since WW II, resurrected by the Bush Junta). U.S. bases on the Dutch islands right off Venezuela's oil coast; illegal USAF overflights of Venezuelan territory; the Colombian military building a new base overlooking the Gulf of Venezuela (main oil shipping harbor), only 20 miles from Venezuela's border. U.S. beefing up bases in Panama. Eva Golinger uncovered a USAF document that stated that the new U.S. bases in Colombia would give them "full spectrum" military capability in the "southern cone" for dealing with drug traffickers, "terrorists" and countries "hostile to the U.S."

6. Relentless "Big Lie" propaganda against Chavez, who has been painted as a "dictator" when nothing could be further from the truth. Venezuela's social justice movement is grass roots driven. Venezuela's elections are the most scrutinized of any on earth, and are honest and transparent on their face (far, FAR more honest and transparent than our own). If it is "dictatorial" to punch Exxon Mobil in the nose, then maybe you could call Chavez "dictatorial." But I'd call it something else. I think Chavez would say, along with Franklin Delano Roosevelt: "Organized money hates me--and I welcome their hatred!" Exxon Mobil hates Chavez--believe me--because he demanded and got a fair deal for Venezuela in the oil contracts, and Exxon Mobil doesn't want "fair" (and walked out of the talks and into first world courts where they are still trying to seize billions of Venezuela's assets). Chavez "dictates" to "organized money," as he should. Sovereign governments SUPERCEDE big money and big corporations in a DEMOCRATIC country. His government meanwhile greatly encourages full participation of all citizens in government and politics, has freed some of the PUBLIC airwaves from corporate rule for use by previously excluded groups (women, gays, African-Venezuelans, the Indigenous, the poor), and has vastly benefited the poor majority on education, health care and other vital matters, even while overseeing an economy with sizzling 10% growth during the 2003 to 2008 period, with the most growth in the private sector. His government has been responsive to "the will of the people." The fascists also called FDR a "dictator." It's bullshit. It's "organized money" talking--the same bastards who are fleecing us, and hijacking our military for their corporate resource wars. This bullshit propaganda is VERY LIKE the WMD propaganda against Iraq. It is very like pre-war psyops. Is it the preliminary to war? Us ordinary citizens, who will be paying for it, will be the last to know. But I agree with Venezuela's and Ecuador's leaders that there is reason for alarm.

7. The U.S. war machine has done it before, recently. Lest we forget.

8. This sneaky, secretive U.S. military buildup in Colombia and the region has haunting resemblances to Vietnam, and I think the Pentagon's strategy for this war is more Vietnam-like than Iraq-like. It will likely involve a proxy military and a proxy government, as with South Vietnam--and the Colombian military and government are behaving in several ways very like those of South Vietnam. The situation is similar--a long, bloody civil war which has its origins in social justice issues; one side armed by the U.S. (the fascist side); sneaky U.S. military buildup, under the radar of the American people; a "Gulf of Tonkin"-type incident being prepped (any of the at least 1,500 U.S. soldiers or 'contractors' in Colombia get embedded with the Colombian military, and get shot at or killed in a border incident with Venezuela, there it is).

9. Would this be insane? Yes. Would Obama go along with it? Don't know. Does he have the power to stop it? Don't know that either. (Chavez said, of Obama, that he is "the prisoner of the Pentagon"). Do we, the people of the U.S., have the power to stop it? No. Do the corpo-fascists and war profiteers who run things here have the capability to install a president who WILL go along with it, if Obama balks? Yes. The EASY capability. (All votes here 'counted' with 'TRADE SECRET' code, owned and controlled mostly (80%) by one, far rightwing corporation, ES&S, which just bought out Diebold). Insanity, thy name is the U.S. "military-industrial complex" gone whacko, again, by design of "The Project For a New American Century," and so much worse, and so much more powerful now, than it was during the Vietnam War.

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*(One of the ways that a slave labor force has been created in Colombia is the displacement, by means of state terror, of some 5 MILLION peasant farmers--the worst human displacement crisis on earth, outside of Sudan. Another is military and death squad assassination of union leaders and other advocates of the poor. Some half a million poor Colombians have fled into Venezuela and Ecuador for refuge, creating a human rights crisis, and a chaotic border situation, for those governments.)

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[Odin2005]

57. LOL!!! Just try that, Hugo!

:rofl:

[Jester Messiah]

65. That's cool Hugo, we've got plenty.

We just gotta scrape it off the seagulls first. :-/