Colombians Denounce Armed Raid by Venezuelan Police

[Bacchus39]

Source: EFE Latin American Herald Tribune

BOGOTA – Small farmers in a rural area of the northeastern Colombian province of Norte de Santander denounced a raid by armed police from neighboring Venezuela, saying the officers fired several shots in the air.

“They entered firing shots into the air, passing alongside some houses and a small school with children,” Jose Jesus Rendon, a peasant leader in San Faustino, a hamlet some 600 meters (2,000 feet) from the border with Venezuela, told Caracol Radio on Wednesday.

Tuesday’s incident sparked panic among local inhabitants, Rendon said, adding that the Venezuelans returned to their side of the border after a discussion with police in San Faustino.

Several violent incidents have occurred along the border since Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez froze relations with Colombia almost one year ago.


Read more: http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=360878&CategoryId=12393

---

so, who is going to invade now??

[dipsydoodle]

1. Article refers to Tuesday and today is Monday ?

Old news just published today ? Any idea which "Tuesday" - this year I assume.

[Bacchus39]

2. the date on the LAHT is today, interesting news don't you think?? n/t

s

[dipsydoodle]

4. Not really

I seems it may have happened last week and the LAHT have just woken up on an otherwise nil news day.

[Bacchus39]

5. would it have been newsworthy if it were Colombian police crossing into Ven??

just curious.

[The Magistrate]

7. That, Sir, Would Depend On the Facts Of the Incident

Specifically, the sort of facts omitted from this account.

[Bacchus39]

9. yep, we don't know why Venezuelan police would be intruding into Colombia

it would be nice to know that, I agree.

[The Magistrate]

10. 'Hot Pursuit', Sir, Is Generally Accorded Neighboring Police

And is to be taken as the most likely explanation, in the absence of further details.

[Bacchus39]

11. I am not aware of any hot pursuit agreement between Colombia and Ven

and I assume such an agreement would apply to Colombia too in Venezuela. what do you think Chavez would think of an incursion by Colombian police forces??

[The Magistrate]

12. Not Refering To Any Formal Agreement, Sir, Merely To Common Understanding

Until the reason for the actions referenced in the article you cited are provided, it is impossible to gauge its import or significance.

The same would apply were the actors reversed.

That hostile governments would make propaganda hay out of any such incident is a given of the situation.

But the over-riding fact of the situation remains this: the Colombian government is a murderous body dominated by the extreme right; the Venezuelan government is in the hands of a charismatic leftist attempting a social revolution, and making some progress at it without killing off his domestic enemies. As the song says, Sir: "Which side are you on?"

[Lightning Count]

13. Probably would be making more progress if he wasn't letting

100's of tonnes of food rot. Have you ever seen a 100 tonnes of food?

[The Magistrate]

14. Have You, Sir, Ever Seen Grain Piled On the Ground Under Tarps Because The Silos Were Full?

Brandishing standard-issue factoids, Sir, may do you well some places, but not here....

[Lightning Count]

16. So hunger has been eliminated?

This doesn't sound like it has anything to do with full silos. Did the medicine also expire because there was just too much?

http://english.eluniversal.com/2010/06/25/en_ing_esp_rotten-food-scandal_25A4086333.shtml

[The Magistrate]

19. Do You Suppose, Sir, Private Firms Never Have Spoiled Items In Warehouses?

In actuality, the amounts of food consumed in Venezuela have increased under Col. Chavez, and done so at rates exceeding the rate of population growth. The cold fact is that more people are getting more to eat than they did under the previous social and economic regime.

[Lightning Count]

21. Please provide links to 100's of tonnes of food spoiling in Venezuela

in private warehouses. Not that it couldn't happen, but that is not the issue.

Here's some more info on it. A disaster.

http://english.eluniversal.com/2010/07/02/en_ing_esp_rotten-food-scandal_02A4125495.shtml

[tiny elvis]

24. same linked page:

Comptroller General Clodosbaldo Russián urged on July 2 the state security agencies to monitor what he called an "orchestrated series of reports aired in the media about the discovery of spoiled food," as he considers that such claims are intended to attack state institutions in order to tarnish the government's image.

The top government official said that private media have launched a new campaign against the institution he leads.

He recalled that this type of attacks against the Comptroller General Office had already occurred following his decision to ban some people from running for public office.

[Lightning Count]

33. Chavez himself has appointed new people to address this problem..

I guess that Chavez if part of the orchestrated attack on himself?

[The Magistrate]

29. When You Want, Sir, To Engage The Increase In Consumption Of Food By Venezuelans In Recent Years

Perhaps you can be taken seriously.

Since you are arguing against a socialist program, that is, food distribution undertaken by the government rather than by private, for profit concerns, the question of whether what you are pretending to be so alarmed about is peculiar to government operations is very much the issue. My guess would be you have little knowledge of freighting or warehousing on any large scale....

[Lightning Count]

34. So it's about intentions rather than methods?

If someone wanted to help the poor heat their homes in the winter, but did it by setting their homes ablaze, would we praise the intentions or assail the methods? Any times 100's of tonnes of food are wasted we are aloud to have complaints.

[The Magistrate]

37. When Address The Fact More People Are Eating More Food, Sir, You Will Be Part Of A Discussion

At present you are simply engaged in duckspeak, doubleplusgood duckspeak, certainly, but duckspeak only nonetheless.

[Lightning Count]

42. You are conflating two issues.

We are discussing the food scandal that is currently unfolding. You seem to think that minor progress in another area negates the need for discussion of the issue. Not sure why.

[The Magistrate]

43. There Is Only One Issue, Sir: Are The People Eating More Calories And Proteins Or Not?

Your 'scandal' attempts to persuade that the answer is no, and is no because the government, a left government, is engaged in socialism.

But the fact is that in recent years the diet of the people has improved, and you have no answer for that.

[tiny elvis]

23. same linked page:

Comptroller Russián said that his agency would impose the appropriate penalties to those found responsible for the case of rotten food which his office has investigated since 2008.

Venezuela's Comptroller General accused the opposition of "creating a scandal" with the topic of spoiled food containers in order to capitalize the issue on the upcoming election. He said that his agency will investigate the distribution activities of the state-run food storage, distribution and wholesale network Mercal since 2008.

"When elections are held, (the opposition) provokes a scandal, such as the one with the problem of food. We have been investigating the case since 2008," the Comptroller General said in the state-run TV network Venezolana de Televisión.

Russián said that the Comptroller General's Office will impose the corresponding penalties.

maybe breitbart could investigate this scandal

[Bacchus39]

15. not on Chavez' side thats for sure

Colombia had the opportunity to elect a leftist leader in May. they did not. Venezuelans will have the opportunity to elect someone besides Chavez. I don't like Santos, I don't like Chavez but its not my call on who their leaders are.

but Colombia accuses Ven of harboring FARC and Ven breaks off relations. Ven warns Colombia and the US against attack, and Ven police enter Colombia shooting according to the accounts.

[The Magistrate]

17. Everyone, Sir, Has a Right To Be Dead Wrong, And You Would Seem To Be Taking Full Advantage Of It

[Bacchus39]

18. what am I wrong about?? any thoughts on the incursion from Ven police forces??

Chavez would never dismiss a similar incident from Colombia as an acceptable consequence of an informal hot pursuit agreement.

[The Magistrate]

20. Neutrality, In This Instance, Sir, Objectively Supports A Murderous Reactionary Regime

[Zorro]

35. So you would prefer a failed state controlled by narcoterrorists?

That's where Colombia was heading before Uribe took office.

Or are you going to give the simplistic answer that there's no difference?

[The Magistrate]

36. That Is Pretty Much What The Place Is Now, Sir

It is simply the most respectable of the gangsters who are in charge at present.

The people killed by the paramilitaries and government forces have generally been not drug traffickers but persons on the left, union organizers, peasant activists, and such like.

[Zorro]

38. You've pretty much showed you're full of baloney

if you equate Colombia to a failed state. Low inflation, a growing economy -- it's not Somalia, or Venezuela.

And speaking of its neighbor to the east, there's quite a problem with trade unionists getting murdered there. Is the Chavez government likewise controlled by gangsters?

"Labor conflicts related to the right to work have cost the lives of numerous trade union leaders, workers, and citizens. According to the Human Rights Vicarage of Caracas, between 1997 and 2007, Venezuela saw the execution of 52 labor leaders and 87 workers resulting from the violent union struggle to control employment quotas.The most standard means of attacking labor leaders is by means of hired gunmen. According to the report of the same organization corresponding to the period of 2008‐2009, another 34 labor leaders have been assassinated. Similarly, information received by the Commission during its 134th Period of Sessions indicates that between 2007 and 2008, 67 trade union leaders were assassinated, and by March 2009 another 18 were as well."

It's on page 284 :http://cidh.org/pdf%20files/VENEZUELA%202009%20ENG.pdf

[The Magistrate]

40. You Cannot Possibly Expect To Be Taken Seriously, Sir, If You Display Such Disconnect From Reality

http://www.hrw.org/node/88060

"This 122-page report documents widespread and serious abuses by successor groups to the paramilitary coalition known as the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia, AUC). The successor groups regularly commit massacres, killings, forced displacement, rape, and extortion, and create a threatening atmosphere in the communities they control. Often, they target human rights defenders, trade unionists, victims of the paramilitaries who are seeking justice, and community members who do not follow their orders. The report is accompanied by a multimedia presentation that includes photos and audio of some of the Colombians targeted by the successor groups."

[Zorro]

41. Seems that you're the one disconnected from reality

and can't make your case that Colombia is a failed state controlled by gangsters.

Are you saying that AUC successor groups are under the direction and control of the Colombian government? Then post your compelling evidence.

In the meantime, peruse the homicide statistics and compare Venezuelan and Colombian trends; those stats show that there's a significantly higher risk to be murdered in Venezuela.

By your logic, doesn't the 50% incease in the homicide rate in Venezuela since Chavez took power mean he is enabling groups of murderous thugs to terrorize not only trade unionists, but others who don't agree with his policies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[The Magistrate]

44. Read The Report, Sir

Then get back to me, and when you do, provide me with established human rights groups reporting frequent massacres by paramilitary forces sheltered by the police and army in Venezuela.

All you are doing here is revealing you know nothing of the region; no one has any serious doubts of the ties of the paramilitary killers to the security services and the government of Colombia. Uribe's ties to such groups are so well known no one disputes their existence, only whether particular allegations by various mass murderers are true in all detail.

[Zorro]

45. Are there paramilitary forces sheltered by the police and army in Venezuela?

Don't you pay attention to current events? Ever heard of the FARC?

Your assertion that "no one disputes...blah blah blah" does not qualify as compelling evidence; it's just another example of your trademark pompous windbaggery.

And I daresay I know a bit about the region, and will be refreshing my regional knowledge in a week or so. How about you?

[Alamuti Lotus]

26. Oh good sir, it is a great pleasure to see you back in action

:hi:

[davidinalameda]

27. exactly

this happened last week; not tomorrow

the followers of St Hugo look for anything to try and discredit anyone who speaks out against their hero

[naaman fletcher]

8. I agree.

Because it happened last week, it does not matter and should be ignored. Likewise, the Wikileaks information should be ignored since it is old, too.

[IndianaGreen]

22. And Polish troops just raided a German radio station

and Saddam has WMD.

[dipsydoodle]

25. You missed out

Archduke Ferdinand being shot. :)

Earliest link I could find was Wednesday 21st and as the pants Latin American Herald Tribune link , posted / stolen from elsewhere almost a week after the event , mentioned a Tuesday I'm guessing it was Tuesday last week. http://www.laprensasa.com/2.0/3/309/778102/America-in-English/Colombians-denounce-armed-raid-by-Venezuelan-police.html

[Wilms]

30. Do you recall what day of the week the Gulf of Tonkin incident did not occur? n/t

:D

[The Magistrate]

3. More Facts, Sir, Are Needed

There is a good deal of cross-border crime in the region, smuggling and the like, as well as the passage of guerrilla elements. The article omits to disclose any reason for the actions of the Venezuelan police, and that is an interesting omission.

[dipsydoodle]

6. Was 600 metres across the border

Might have been looking for a pig they lost on Farmville. :rofl:

Looks to have happened Tuesday last week : http://vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=94636

[davidinalameda]

28. blame facebook for everything!

[sofa king]

31. Yep. And with no cross-deputization or other formal relations....

...The cops actually have more incentive to cross the line in force (when they do decide to cross), the better to protect themselves should they run into Columbian cops (or other potential enemies).

In ancient times around the Mediterranean, it was assumed that a state of war existed between neighboring states, unless otherwise changed by formal and mutual agreement. People therefore banded up for protection when they moved near the borders, and inevitably some of the bands would clash, thus fulfilling the prophecy of war and ensuring that the status quo never changed.

I think one could argue that this incident represents the sort of "simmer" that occurs between states without formal, friendly relations.

[COLGATE4]

32. Why do you assume that Colombian cops are 'potential enemies'

of Venezuelan cops? BTW, if you're going to join the 'Hate Colombia Society', at least learn how to spell the name correctly.

[sofa king]

39. Really?

Perhaps my spelling error distracted you from my paragraph-long explanation about how, when there are no formal relations, everyone is a potential enemy.

Including COLOMBIANS.