Alleged Shooter: I Killed The Racists

[RagAss]

Source: Connecticut TV - WFSB

“He said, ‘I killed the five racists that was there bothering me,’” said Will Holliday, Thornton’s uncle. “He said, ‘That’s it. The cops are going to come in so I’m going to take care of it myself.’”



Read more: http://www.wfsb.com/news/24499867/detail.html

[slackmaster]

1. Predictable unintended consequence of people crying "RACISM" every time someone disagrees with them

It's got to end.

[CreekDog]

18. people should not call other people racists without checking with white people first

being called a racist obviously a bigger problem now than actual racism.

:sarcasm: (guess I need this huh?)

[Borderlineanarchist]

33. Sarcasm aside...

-- isn't the word "racism" starting to weaken, if only just a bit, through sheer overuse? And doesn't that bother you?

[CreekDog]

43. are you saying the the term "racist" is not appropriate when someone finds a noose?

:shrug:

i guess that's overusing it.

[Borderlineanarchist]

47. Am I saying WHAT....???

And are YOU saying it is okay for Fathers to have sexual relations with their infant, handicapped daughters if they first get their wives' consent?

I wasn't sure if that's what you meant or not, Creek. You know, as long as we're playing juvenile games and pretending to misunderstand each other. ("When someone finds a noose." Dear GOD...)

My inquiry was not whether racism exists (because of COURSE it exists), but whether you felt the word was being thrown around a bit too casually of late. Hard to imagine any sentient person NOT believing that.

[CreekDog]

50. in a thread about an article where people stated nooses were left for a black person to see

you posted the idiotic statement that "racist" is overused.

now i don't care what someone's been through, you can't take revenge --and we don't know if those statements are true.

but of all the places to say "racist" is overused, you picked the one where people said there were nooses and harassment that is not a gray area type --that's where you picked to say "racist" is overused.

so naturally i assumed you thought that nooses were not an indication of racism.

and regarding whether the term is overused, you're overusing complaining about accusations of racism on this board. you've complained about racism accusations more than most posters complain about racism using a similar number of posts.

chew on that.

[Borderlineanarchist]

51. But it IS a legitimate topic, though

And the statement that the word "racist" might be a tad overused in 2010 is not remotely "idiotic." Nobody doubts that charges of racism are frequently justified, but aren't we watering down its currency just a wee little bit by employing it so much?

[CreekDog]

52. you're overusing the complaint

something i thought you would be against. :eyes:

[Borderlineanarchist]

53. Dear God, why not just answer the question...

-- that you have been not-very-cleverly dodging for the past 15 hours: In your opinion, is the charge of racism being thrown around too casually nowadays?

[CreekDog]

60. i don't think it's as overused as you do

okay?

i looked at your posts and every single post you've made about racism is to complain that it's not racism or that the term is actually used.

now the shooter is indefensible and his story, told secondhand leaves a lot of doubt.

but here's the problem with your complaint:

if someone complains that they as a black person were subjected to nooses, that's not a situation that can be explained by anythng other than racism. nobody hangs a noose for a black person without some racial intent.

what you seem to be talking about are cases where simple disagreement is chalked up to racism --why on earth you are posting that with an article which talks about nooses, is beyond me.

[Borderlineanarchist]

61. Thank you, Creek...

-- and perhaps you're right, perhaps this WASN'T the right forum for me to post those remarks in and I apologize.

I am not a fool. I know that racism exists. It is one of the scourges of the planet, as a matter of fact. But I also know the word is invoked too casually now, and as a consequence is beginning to mean less than it's supposed to.

[kwassa]

120. And how do you know that the word racism is used too casually now?

Have you taken a survey of some kind? Have you done a comparative study of usage, in any remotely scientific manner?

Or are you just voicing your personal opinion as a widely perceived fact without any support of any kind?

I suspect the latter.

[Borderlineanarchist]

124. Well, duh.

Of COURSE it's just my opinion, and last time I checked, the DU was and remains a FORUM for opinions. This whole goddamn PAGE, in fact, is FULL of people's opinions (I'm frankly surprised I need to point this out to you). So just to reiterate, yes, it is my OPINION that the charge of "racism" is now being tossed around like a goddamn house salad and quickly being drained of its power. And while the charge might sometimes be justified, it is more often being used now as a way of stifling debate and DEMONIZING our opponents.

Just Google "Spencer Ackerman" (the head of the infamous JournoListers) if you don't believe me.

Creeps like Ackerman are giving our cause a bad name.

Cry wolf often enough, and eventually people stop listening.

[kwassa]

135. Sorry, you were acting as if you had some authority on the subject.

and you have none.

Thanks for admitting that.

Charges of racism, real or imagined, have been around for many years. There is no new trend here.

What is really offensive, however, is that you dismiss these charges without making the tiniest effort to investigate whether there is truth to them. Your assumption that they are false reveals, yes, a prejudice on your part.

[No Elephants]

96. White people seem to be the ones overusing it most.

[Paladin]

38. Shame On You. (n/t)

[onehandle]

40. And the gungeon pokes their heads out of the lost room.

Touchy, hmm?

[slackmaster]

69. Clearly anyone who posts in the DU Guns forum has no credibility, eh onehandle?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=onehandle+forum%3D118&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CamkBCotZTOe8IofQ6APbpozfCAAAAKoEBU_QqBdb

[onehandle]

70. Boy, you guys are all over this thread.

None must slander the gun.

[LanternWaste]

59. And the high pressure system of irony shows no sign of abating this summer...

Every time, huh? Six of one, half a dozen of the other.


And the high pressure system of irony shows no sign of abating this summer...

[superconnected]

71. Excuse me? There probably was racism there.

The denial of racism is scarier than the people that use the race card all the time - believe me I've met them. However, most people claiming racism are probably right.

I don't think this was the correct answer, but I can't help being a tad happy that the most likely racist crap that was harassing him, got theirs.

[slackmaster]

74. Maybe there was racism. I don't know, you don't know, and it wouldn't excuse what the guy did.

It's pretty obvious that the guy tried to demonize his victims by tarring them as racists, before he killed himself. Murders often do that kind of thing. They often try to rationalize their actions by claiming that the victim either made them do it, or had it coming by being some kind of undesirable person: An aristocrat, a Jew, an infidel, a racist, a n****r, a homosexual, or whatever.

I don't think this was the correct answer, but I can't help being a tad happy that the most likely racist crap that was harassing him, got theirs.

You're taking the word, not backed up yet by any verifiable facts, of a guy who stole stuff then murdered a bunch of people.

We all have our prejudices, don't we?

[superconnected]

76. Yes, we all have our own prejudices. Being white, I've heard racist statments

tons of times without any black around to be spoken of specifically.

I mean come on. Racism exists. That he claimed he killed the "Racists" kind of points to him believing they were racists. Sure he's unstable. I'm not giving them the clear of being innocent though. The real problem that sticks out is he says he killed the "5" racists, yet shot a lot more people than that. Apparently he was shooting anyone he could, racists or not. However the 5 may actually have been racists. Who knows.

[slackmaster]

77. My gut reaction is not to believe a single word the thief and murderer said to anyone at any time

Maybe he was crazy, or maybe he was just an asshole. I can't see him as a victim based on his word alone. I want to see actual evidence.

[Paladin]

94. A Lack Of Evidence Didn't Prevent You From Mindlessly Lashing Out Earlier (Post No.1).

But like you say, we all have our prejudices.....

[slackmaster]

95. I think you and a few others misunderstood reply #1 in a big way

Your prejudices about me in action, combined with a hastily written post by me, IMO.

Let me rephrase it for clarity:

A murderer trying to rationalize a murder by claiming he was driven to it by racist acts by his victim is a predictable unintended consequence of widespread over-use of accusations of racism. It's fashionable to use that as an excuse for all kinds of bad behavior. Criminals often rationalize their crimes, and criminals follow social trends like other people do. Using claims of racial persecution as the basis for their rationalizations has become annoyingly common, among corrupt politicians, murderers, and all other kinds of criminals (even rapists in one case I can think of).

[marshall]

100. No evidence supports his claim that he filed a grievance about racism

But the report that he made such a claim is second hand, from his mother or some other family member.

I would like to see the photos that he had on his cell phone. That would be a simple way for the girlfriend to prove her statement. Both sides will undoubtedly release their evidence--the bathroom wall images and the video footage of the theft.

[Xenotime]

81. The family has evidence of racism against him..

Now what do you have to say?

[slackmaster]

82. They've said that they've seen it, but nobody has produced it yet

Families of people who have committed horrible crimes say all kinds of things that often don't turn out to be true.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Winterblues]

84. Maybe he was in a better position to know and recognize whether he was indeed

a victim of racism. Were you there?

[slackmaster]

85. We're talking about a WACK JOB who stole stuff, got fired, and murdered several people

A man who PLANNED to kill someone when he went to work that day.

I don't consider him to have been in a "position" or mental state to make an accurate assessment of anything. If he was indeed being systematically victimized by racist acts at work, WHY DIDN'T HE FILE A COMPLAINT WITH HIS UNION?

No, his judgment was flawed.

[MikeW]

86. from a local newspaper ... this isnt about racism people please

" Thornton was caught on videotape stealing beer several times. He says Thornton did not contest it or get angry, and chose to quit rather than being fired."

The guy was a thief, he got caught red handed and couldn't handle it.

[mainer]

99. His friends say he didn't even drink. Why steal beer?

It's strange. It's all strange.

[LostinVA]

101. If he raelly didn't drink, than to sell it or give it away

[slackmaster]

104. Maybe he wasn't quite the person his friends thought he was

I'll bet none of them took him for someone who would sneak a gun into his workplace, planning on murdering a bunch of people.

[Pavulon]

88. Fuck him, being called a bad

name, et al give no one the right to murder 8 people in cold blood. He should have shot himself. He is a piece of shit for destroying 8 peoples lives.

A thief and a murderer.

[JerseygirlCT]

92. Well, from what I've read

we know that one of the family members who owned the business had never heard any complaints. And that one of the people shot by this man was the union rep who was trying to get him a second chance at the job.

I think this is likely something his family needs to believe - because what seems to be the case right now - that he just flipped and killed so many people - is understandably difficult to believe for them.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Thanks, Rush Limbaugh and the Christian right for making your folks think racism is hilarious fun.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

3. Oh, boy

The scary black people meme will get some more legs now.

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. And whose fault is that?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

9. Plenty of blame to go around

It would be nice if the media and politicians were more responsible than crazy people.

[Ruby the Liberal]

12. From your keyboard...

Unbelievable.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

14. Why don't you explain to me where I've offended you sensibilities?

If you don't think FAUX News is going to have a field day with this, please give me directions to your planet.

[Ruby the Liberal]

26. Um, I was agreeing with you

As in "from your lips..."

??

[cyndensco]

27. Whose fault do you think it is?

Is it fair that a whole group of people be further branded as scary because of the acts of this one, crazy man?

[Ruby the Liberal]

31. You miss the point.

Lay blame where it belongs. A man caught on tape stealing from his employer yelling about 'rasicm' while being fired for theft. Deflection much? Even if you are discriminated against, you don't retaliate with theft.

Lay blame where blame belongs.

[cyndensco]

35. There is no doubt what this man did was wrong.

He should not have stolen, should not have killed.

Thorton deserves ALL the blame. If society limits the blame to him, cool. Unfortunately, as ProudToBeBlueInRhody suggested, his action will further the scary black man meme. We unfairly suffer the sins of our brothers far too often.

[Ruby the Liberal]

37. I missed the main point. Sadly, I agree.

:(

[cyndensco]

39. :)

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. He really took care of it, didn't he?

Sickening.

[nicky187]

5. I respectfully disagree.

Always problematic to theorize without facts, but, would you admit the possibility that the person was chronically stressed and dissatisfied with how he was treated at work?

I'm not excusing his behavior, just trying to explain it.

[RagAss]

7. I have no idea what the truth is here...just posting a WFSB TV report.

[nicky187]

11. Noted.

Thank you.

[MadMaddie]

23. We all get disgusted at work

but most of us have a honest meter (don't steal from our employer). We go home, we vent, we drink, we get it on but we don't plan on shooting co-workers.

He got caught on camara stealing the companies product. He got caught and he probably faced criminal charges.

He was pissed that he got caught and he was going to get revenge.

There is no excuse for this.

[Ruby the Liberal]

6. He was with Union reps while being fired for being caught on camera stealing beer from the company.

No question racism exists in society, but when one blames EVERYTHING on racism (damn the facts), the topic turns into the boy who cried wolf and people quit paying attention (& caring/believing).

[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. The article doesn't specify that he was being fired...

It says he was being reprimanded. I'm not saying he's innocent; but it seems odd that they'd merely reprimand him. It seems there was photographic evidence on both sides. I wonder if any of it will be seen publically.

[Ruby the Liberal]

25. I read that earlier this afternoon in the Hartford Courant

Here is the link: http://www.courant.com/community/manchester/hc-omar-thornton-workplace-shooting-020100803,0,837990.story

"Thornton was offered to resign or be fired. He was being escorted from the building when the shots rang out".

[TheCowsCameHome]

28. I heard he was being offered a chance to quit

rather than be fired.

That was a break in itself, if he wanted to take advantage of it.

[Ruby the Liberal]

29. That is what they are reporting fro surviving witnesses - "quit or be fired"

[LostinVA]

73. I read a few minutes ago he signed his resination

Walked out, took a handgun from his lunchbox, and started shooting. And, it appears to have been pretty random shooting, as per the local paper story.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

49. Thanks for clarifying...

Still, I'd like to see the photo evidence from both parties. Racism wouldn't excuse his actions; but it'd be good to know what made him snap.

[Chan790]

30. I'll go look for a news-source for it...

I have a friend who is a journalist (not covering this story, she covers the other side of the CT River) in Hartford (This is about 20 miles from where I grew up) for a competing station and she said it's generally-accepted/presumed by her colleagues working the story that he was likely going to be terminated. She didn't say if that had been verified or confirmed though or is just a working assumption at this point.

[Ruby the Liberal]

34. Link in my post #25

Other CT news were reporting that office witnesses stated that he refused to quit, was told he was fired, then opened fire. Followed with reports of people yelling "he's firing, call 911" and people fleeing the building.

One of the dead was the Union rep there to help him. :(

Hope that helps with the news search.

[Chan790]

41. That solves my news search.

If I'd read the link I never would have needed to post, you beat me to the punch by 5 posts (and I didn't notice the timestamp but probably hours.) If that's eyewitness accounting then I think that confirms the assumptions of likely (or factual it seems) termination.

[JerseygirlCT]

93. From The Courant:

Union officials said Thornton signed a letter of resignation at his disciplinary hearing Tuesday morning, and on his way out he said he wanted a drink of water.

"He signed a letter of resignation and agreed to that as an alternative to being fired," said Gregg Adler, the attorney for Teamsters Local 1035. "He went into a separate room to get a drink of water and came out shooting."

http://www.courant.com/community/manchester/hc-omar-s-thornton-connecticut-shooti20100804,0,6244219.story

[nicky187]

10. As the economy continues to degrade ...

... and standards of living decline; as more people lose their houses, savings, families; expect to see this scene play out, daily. And race has nothing to do with this multiple homicide.

From the page: "Data from the National Traumatic Occupational Fatalities (NTOF) Surveillance System indicate that 9,937 workplace homicides occurred during the 13-year period from 1980 through 1992, with an average workplace homicide rate of 0.70/100,000 workers (Table 1) . Over the course of the 1980s, workplace homicides decreased; but in the 1990s, the numbers began to increase, surpassing machine-related deaths and approaching the number of workplace motor-vehicle-related deaths (Figure 1). Although the 1992 figure was lower than that for 1991, it exceeded the 1990 figure and did not include 1992 data for New York City and the State of Connecticut. NTOF is an ongoing, death-certificate-based census of traumatic occupational fatalities in the United States, with data from all 50 States and the District of Columbia. NTOF includes information for all workers aged 16 or older who died from an injury or poisoning and for whom the certifier noted a positive response to the injury at work? item on the death certificate. For additional discussion of the NTOF system and the limitations of death certificates for the study of workplace homicide, see Castillo and Jenkins <1994>."

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/violhomi.html

[slackmaster]

13. More people who have perfectly good jobs will screw up their lives by stealing from their employers?

:crazy:

[beam me up scottie]

15. No kidding.

I would kill to have his job.

:sarcasm: aside, this was one sick puppy, he knew he was going to get fired and brought a gun to work to get even. Local CBS affiliate reports he called his mom before offing himself.

There are nine families going through hell right now, no sense in any of it.

[lonestarnot]

45. No shit.

:crazy:

[U4ikLefty]

48. Or screw up thier lives by carrying guns around.

That's right

[slackmaster]

63. Append "illegally" to your statement and I'd agree with you, U4.

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. More details:

Holliday said, “He had some instances of racism at the company. They were hanging nooses in the bathroom and writing stuff like that. They were singling him out because he was the only black person there in that area.”

Thornton’s family said he had taken pictures of the threats and said they believe he just snapped Tuesday morning.

[Igel]

68. I'd be more settled on this point if they'd said something else.

"Thornton's family said he had taken pictures of the threats" is ambiguous. It asserts a claim without saying their basis for the claim. They might be simply reporting what he said. That possibility should be ruled out.

We're pretty sure that he was a thief and certain that he was a murderer. But we're also asked to believe that he's an honest man and would never lie, misrepresent, or exaggerate things.

If we could say, "Thornton's family said they'd seen the pictures he'd taken of the threats and noose(s)" that would be a whole lot better.

[superconnected]

72. So, if he's lying about why he killed them, why?

I mean, I don't see a reason to believe there was no racism.

Him being a thief does not negate the possibility that there was racism there as he claims.

[slackmaster]

75. I think the simplest explanation is that the guy was unstable to begin with

He stole stuff, got caught, got fired, and got mad.

[Llewlladdwr]

131. You mean other than the fact that no one,...

the shooter included, has ever made a complaint about racism at this company? Either to the union or management?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

17. "Thornton’s family said he had taken pictures of the threats..."

I hope they'll surface.

So many questions...

Why would they reprimand an employee who was caught stealing on video? Wouldn't they just fire him?
Where is this condemning video? And if the guy was complaining of racism, why didn't the Teamsters investigate?

[LostinVA]

55. They did fire him

They allowed him the chance to resign but he refused, so they fired him. As he was being escorted from the building, he drew the gun and fired.

[slackmaster]

79. The Teamsters have denied that he ever filed a complaint

But maybe they're all racists too.

[MineralMan]

19. As in all of these cases, the shooter should have shot himself

before shooting the others.

[MadMaddie]

21. WTF?

He got caught stealing and he got fired. How the hell is that racist?

He didn't want to go to jail that's what this is about. No accountability.

Bless the families that are suffering because of this dumb bastard.

[WingDinger]

24. Putting the cart before the horse there.

He was to have a hearing, on tues. And not yet fired.

[MadMaddie]

32. Hearing or no hearing he still got caught stealing right?

There is no justification for stealing from your employer. If he was experiencing racism why not file a complaint and get a lawyer and sue them?

Some of the other posts have noted he was going to be given a choice.
It appears it doesn't matter what they offerred him he took his gun and he had a plan.

Cart before the horse, horse before the cart, there is nothing in the world that can justify this action he took.

[LostinVA]

57. He was Union, so he could have reported it to the Union

And should have.

[slackmaster]

64. ABC News article says "...a union official said Thornton had not filed a complaint of racism..."

"...with the union or any government agency."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11320884

It looks like an accusation of racism is being raised in an attempt to rationalize the man's crimes. Of course the owners and managers of the business categorically denies that there was any racism in the workplace, and one of the comments near the top of the ABC piece accuses the Teamsters of being a racist union.

:eyes:

[WingDinger]

22. Why most here disregard the obvious astounds me.

He said he was under longtime repression. He was GOING to have a hearing. He could have stole a bottleopener, for all we know. He said he had catalouged the threats, and they were racial. While this is crazy handling of the situation, this snap could have been seen long ago. When he went to the union, and company people, to get the threats stopped, they told him to grow a thick skin. There most certainly is a lesson here. Bullying, and lynch threats, better be taken seriously, as so many people are winding up dead when they snap.

[slackmaster]

66. He never went to the union about the alleged threats

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11320884

[Liberation Angel]

67. Racism played a role in this: institutional racism is to blame ultimately

A noose is a death threat.

It is especially terrifying given the history.

Whether any of these people were responsible for the shooter's fears or perception of racism I can't say.

But if we fail to recognize the trauma of racism in this world and its impact, then we won't be able to create a better world where people do not snap when pressured with loss of livelihood etc.

For the record, I have no idea if he even stole ANYTHING. We cannot assume he did.

But even if he did there is a mindset which says that stealing from rich people who are racists or who allow or tolerate racism or who condone it is not such a bad thing. Stealing from the rich is not such a bad thing from this perspective.

But murder is evil and this man's actions were, at least in part, affected by an institutioal set of evils (race and class and rich vs. poor) which is at least partially responsible for him snapping. The stress of racism and hate (and nooses are hate) and threat of economic ruin is all enough to make people snap.

Or maybe he was just an asshole. But he was apparently not the only one in that shop.

May they all Rest in Peace. I hope they are all in a better place.

For the record, i know this community pretty well - I workd in it off and on for years ib the inner city and the "suburbs: which Manchester is. It is a deeply racist area. That is an important factor. The social and ethnic divide there is very tangible and it stinks. Every day.

[me b zola]

78. Best post of this thread

:thumbsup:

[slackmaster]

80. If there actually were any nooses or other threats

I hope we learn the truth soon.

[Liberation Angel]

83. Gee Thanks! People seem to forget that racism kills souls

actually I prefer to NOT use the term racism which implies that there are even such things as different races.

There aren't.

There is only the human race.

There is no such thing as black people or white people either. We are actually pink and brown and different shades.

Color is a state of mind. if you THINK "White" or "Black" or that you ARE that then that is what you THINK you are but not actually what you ARE in reality or in fact: its an artificial construct (like the value of paper money).

It keeps us controlled.

But anyways, ETHNIC HATRED + POVERTY can cause people to feel thart life is not worth either protecting or living - especially when the hate and suffering is gonna get worse.

My condolences to the families. It was NOT their faults and even some of them were trying to help him, possibly.

But this is in part the not entirely unexpected or unusual results of a LONG pattern of oppression of people of color and poor people in general. usually it is a "white" guy "going postal." At Fort Hood it was a Palestinian. People snap when they see all the oppressiveness as hopeless and life has no more value (it is a sickness too).

But people become randomly violent when they are totally broken by all that is breaking them.

When that oppression results in an emotional meltdown and explosion - you get suicide massacres.

No excuses.

What he did was wrong.

But it was not imho ENTIRELY his fault.

We have a 400+ year history of enslavement and oppression and denigration and servitude and even slavery which resulted in these new strange fruits.

[Fastcars]

127. Whitey Deserved It?

Sort of like the scantily clad young lady wanted it. I didn't rape anyone defense.

[MadMaddie]

87. I can say that I have worked at many jobs where I hated management

and they hated me.....I quit and moved on. It wasn't worth the angst and heartache.

He could have walked away.

[slackmaster]

89. The main reason I left my last job was lack of advancement, which was rooted in age discrimination

I was passed over for being given additional responsibilities, and more pay, in favor of TWO younger systems administrators who didn't even live in the same city as the facility where the work needed to be done. I not only lived and worked at the same facility, but had received consistently superior performance reviews AND I had prior work experience in the job functions in question.

Three years in a row of stagnating was enough to convince me that I was not a valued employee, due to my age.

[MadMaddie]

90. Good for you! It can be scary but I bet you feel better, I know

I did.

[slackmaster]

91. I ended up at a job much closer to home for a substantially higher salary

I have never regretted my decision to leave. I was being exploited.

[HipChick]

107. I worked at a corporation where a young black girl was hired into management

She had a masters from Stanford, it was evident from the beginning that people did not go out of their way to help her at all. Many times she was setup..ie asked to attend a meeting, and then called on to give a presentation (of which she was not informed off previously) so it would seem she was unprepared,incompetent..etc..Her mindset was that she did not want to let them win. She stuck it out as long as she could, they wore her down till she finally quit. Senior management knew what was going on, no one stepped in to help her

[Fastcars]

128. Not Denying Racism Exists...

But this could also be attributed to people worried about a young hot-shot making them look bad. Man/woman, black/white/other. It may have been all about her race. But I know I have seen a lot of hot-shot youngsters of all races get treated like you described.

[onehandle]

36. .

[lobodons]

42. 2nd Amendment remedies

I guess he used his 2nd amendment remedies.

[Pavulon]

44. mmm intelectual laziness...(nt)

[Jennicut]

46. I would say there are racists in every state but the family that owned this company was

very giving to the community of Hartford, where there is a large African-American population. Manchester is a mixed town as well. I would say this guy was way mentally imbalanced and is using this as an excuse. The reports on all my local stations here in CT talked about how he stole beer from the company and was given a choice to either quit or be fired. He lost it and then blamed racism for his own weaknesses. Very sad that 8 innocent people had to die today. If anything, the Hollander family seemed to be decent people to work for.

[LostinVA]

58. I was wondering about everything you put in your post

Thanks.

[brendan120678]

54. Official Statement Of Teamsters Local 1035 On Hartford Distributors Tragedy

Source: http://www.courant.com/business/hc-teamsters-local-1035-statement-0803,0,2334162.story">Hartford Courant

SOUTH WINDSOR, CT — The following is the official statement from Chris Roos, Secretary Treasurer of Teamsters Local 1035 in South Windsor, CT in regard to the tragic deaths of nine people at Hartford Distributors today.

"On behalf of Teamsters Local 1035 I would like to extend our heartfelt condolences to the families of all the victims of today's tragedy at Hartford Distributors.

"We have lost friends and family as a result of today's incident and we must work together to healp each other through this difficult time.

"Omar Thornton was a member of Teamsters 1035 and worked at Hartford Distributors as a driver. Thornton was scheduled to meet with the company with his union representatives this morning at 7:30 a.m. to discuss matters that could have affected his continued employment with the company. Bryan Cirigliano, President of Teamsters Local 1035 was in attendance at this meeting as Thornton's union representative. It is our understanding that it was at this time Thornton allegedly shot and killed Cirigliano, a company representative and six of our members at the facility. All of these people were at work just trying to do their jobs.

"During the time that Thornton was represented by Local 1035, he reported no concerns about racial discrimination to the union, despite some media reports suggesting that he had complained about such concerns. We take the representation of all of our members very seriously. In every unit that we represent, we strive to ensure that all workers are treated with dignity and respect, regardless of their individual backgrounds.

"We grieve with all of the families that are touched by this terrible tragedy."

[LostinVA]

56. Is there any evidence he went to the Union rep about the harassment?

Especially since family members are saying he had photographic evidence?

i am NOT saying he wasn't being harassed, but this whole situation is very weird, especially since he was Union, and a rep would have been all over this for him.

[slackmaster]

65. The union explicitly denies that he filed any kind of complaint

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11320884

[mainer]

97. His longtime girlfriend (white) said union never responded

There was a long article today in my newspaper quoting his girlfriend who said he had chronicled many instances of continuing harassment, including warehouse workers screwing up the loading of cargo he was supposed to be hauling. She says she overheard his colleagues saying they wanted to fire the "n****r" when he captured the conversation on his cell phone.

It sounds like there's more than one side to this story. It's not beyond belief that his co-workers would frame him for the alleged beer theft.

[LostinVA]

102. I would like to see the proof of the union complaint

Because, I have read many articles on this, including those from outside the US that includes alot of details, and this wasn't some guy just snapping and shooting his tormentors. He did indeed go "postal," and it was premeditated. IF all of that did indeed happen, then he should have come into the meeting with an attorney, or have made a call to the NAACP.

I am just really hesitant to believe this off the bat, because Mr. Thorton's actions were so extreme and so premeditated.

He also told his mother he killed the five racists who had harassed him. He killed four more people and wounded others. INCLUDING THE MAN WHO WAS ON HIS SIDE.

[Pavulon]

115. Boy you guys are really stretching to excuse mass murder

including the 77 year old man who is about to die in the hospital.

The only other side is he should have shot himself in the shitter (turd nearest its home) filed a complaint with his UNION (EEOC, etc) or quit.

He is human filth below contempt.

[onenote]

129. suggesting his co-workers set him up to be caught on video taking beer?

If its not "beyond belief" its clearly on the very outer edge.

[Romulox]

62. Any chance a mass murderer might suffer from paranoid schizophrenia

or similar? :shrug:

Paranoid schizophrenia

Symptoms


By Mayo Clinic staff
Signs and symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia may include:

Auditory hallucinations, such as hearing voices
Delusions, such as believing a co-worker wants to poison you
Anxiety
Anger
Aloofness
Violence
Verbal confrontations
Patronizing manner
Suicidal thoughts and behavior

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/paranoid-schizophrenia/DS00862/DSECTION=symptoms

[mainer]

98. Read this account. It may change your perspective

I thought at first that he was just a paranoid wack job. Now I think he was truly tormented by horrible coworkers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/08/04/2010-08-04_kristi_hannah_girlfriend_of_omar_thornton_recalls_gunmans_goodbye_racism_concern.html

[raccoon]

103. Has anyone else but the girlfriend seen the photos of the racist graffiti that she

says he took?

[mainer]

105. They also quote his best friend

Best friend and family agree with the girlfriend.

[raccoon]

106. Did the best friend see the photos? nt

[mainer]

108. The friend saw the actual drawings

"Thornton's best friend, who asked the Daily News to keep his name confidential, said he also used to work at the beer distributor and saw Thornton subjected to racist taunts.

"No one should have had to endure what that company put him through," the friend said. "Stuff on walls. Racist comments. I saw it with my own eyes.""

[Pavulon]

113. Says a man with no name. You carrying water for this shit?

He is a thief and a murderer. I have been called a QUOTING "trailer park living white trash faggot cock sucker" to my face in the Army while armed. Not in bct not by someone with rank, btw. The person doling out the harassment was black, my thought was not I should shoot this motherfucker, but boy I HATE the army and cant wait to leave. I could have smashed his nose with a rifle or my fist, but not worth the 15 it would have generated.

These people bring shame to themselves mentioning race after what he did.

Fuck them all.

[mainer]

116. A man who talked with a reporter.

So he's not nameless to the reporter. I'm not carrying water for anyone. I'm just saying that stories are often more complicated than we see at first glance. And those who see only in black and white miss a lot of details.

[Pavulon]

125. Some things are binary. Being called a N*gger is grounds for a lawsuit

not mass murder. This person family is disgracing themselves with this crap.

[LostinVA]

122. But his Ex says he had a victim complex

And didn't stay at jobs because of thinking people were racist. He told 911 he killed the "five racists" who harassed him, yet he killed four more people, including the man trying to help him, and shot several more. And, the murder was premeditated.

I don't know. I'm sure people he worked with are racists, but it sounds like he had some mental issues.

And, how do we know who made the drawings and where they actually were?

Sad all around.

[Pavulon]

112. Who fucking cares. They could be calling him the N word all day

he does have the right to sue, a process started by a formal complaint. Which he did not make. He committed premeditated murder because he knew he was in trouble.

He is a thief and a murderer/ He is loser trash.

[mainer]

118. He's a murderer. And his victims weren't saints.

That's what's coming out.

[brentspeak]

119. No evidence that his victims abused him in any way whatsoever

[kwassa]

121. Evidence is suggested that hasn't been seen yet, the cell phone pictures.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/08/04/2010-08-04_kristi_hannah_girlfriend_of_omar_thornton_recalls_gunmans_goodbye_racism_concern.html?page=1

Omar Thornton's girlfriend said:

Thornton took photos of the racist graffiti, she said.

"I saw with my own two eyes his cell phone pictures. These people are lying. The proof is on Omar's cell phone."

This doesn't justify any murders, obviously, but the racism might be quite real.

[Pavulon]

126. If everyone came to work in blackface, and the company had 40 parties

that does not come close to mitigating mass murder. If this is not all a giant lie, he had a grand opportunity to win a lawsuit.

His family does not want to deal with the fact he is a turd.

[kwassa]

134. You conflate two separate issues.

Issue #1. The murders. Nothing justifies them.

Issue #2. The racism. It is real, or it is not. It can't be dismissed without investigation.

[onenote]

130. So what if they weren't "saints"? Who is?

What difference does it make if they were saints, sinners, racists, or whatever? Really...does it in any way excuse the killings? Maybe you think it "explains" them, but it doesn't, since people work with other people who aren't saints all the time and don't go postal on them.

[mainer]

132. But they are being made out to be saints.

That always happens post-mortem, I suppose. The dead are idealized, said to be perfect, said to have not a racist bone in their bodies. They never hurt a soul, never said a harsh word, and loved their killer like Jesus would.

A little unrealistic, that's all.

[LisaL]

136. You know nothing about them.

[lynne]

109. Was he the only person of color working there? Wouldn't others have seen the racist writings?

Wouldn't they have been victims of racism, too? Obviously mentally ill, as sane people don't go to work with plans to kill their co-workers, it's quite possible that he invented the racism.

He didn't report the racism to his union but I would think that other workers would have come forward by this time if there was any truth to his accusations.

[mainer]

111. Yes, his friend and co-worker saw them too

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/08/04/2010-08-04_kristi_hannah_girlfriend_of_omar_thornton_recalls_gunmans_goodbye_racism_concern.html

[Pavulon]

114. So that justifies shooting a 77 year old man?

If the events no name says actually happened there is no justification for murder. And no justification for those trying to make it about race.

Under the same logic, a person in a bar who lost a family member in this could just haul off and shoot a person in the head because he did not like them saying their family member was racist.

You ok with that?

[mainer]

117. Where did I say the shooting was justified?

I wish you'd point that out to me.

[LostinVA]

123. 20% of the workforce are people of color

And, NO complaints have ever been made to the Union, the company, or State and Fed agencies.

There is also no proof of who drew the photos. Sorry, I believe there are certainly racists working there, but his actions, his words to 911, and what his Ex said, all make me believe he was probably mentally ill. Sane people do not become mass murderers, unless they are just sociopaths, and angry people also don't become mass murderers.

Plus, he did indeed steal more than once.

[laureloak]

110. The shooter sounds like a guy I work with.

There's always this seething rage beneath the surface. He interprets every situation to be a racial put-down.

He has a beautiful new home, makes plenty of money, has raised healthy college-educated kids. He has everything to be thankful for but he's miserable. All because he is imagining that negative reactions to him are because of race, while it's really because of the negativity he gives off.
He is ruining his own happiness but he refuses to see it.

I can see how he could work this rage up to crisis level.

[scheming daemons]

133. Some people are bending themselves into pretzels to absolve a mass murderer

He killed lots of people. In cold blood.


He claimed they were treating him in a racist manner, but never filed a claim about it.


Even if all of his claims are true.... it doesn't excuse murdering several people in cold blood.





He was stealing from the company. He got caught. Some people being racist towards him didn't make him steal.

He was upset that he got caught. That he was losing his job. And he snapped.



Quit trying to deflect the blame to ANYONE else. He pulled the trigger. Lots of people have been treated badly in this world. Lots of black people have been treated in a racist manner. They didn't all pull a gun and start killing indiscriminately.


He was a sick and/or evil person. And may he rot in hell for what he did, which was worse than anything he accused his victims of doing.