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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-10 11:36 PM
Original message
Cardinal attacks US over Lockerbie bomber reaction
Source: BBC News

The leader of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland has made an outspoken attack on the United States over the release of the Lockerbie bomber.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien said the Scottish government was right to free Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi last year on compassionate grounds.

US lawmakers want Scottish politicians to explain to a Senate committee their decision to release Megrahi.

But the cardinal said ministers should not go crawling to the US like lapdogs.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-10905562



Wha...?

So he values the one surviving criminal who lived out his life expectancy over the 180+ victims of the crash? I don't get this.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-10 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. That dude would change his tune if Megrahi were a doctor who performed abortions on pregnant women
Edited on Sat Aug-07-10 11:39 PM by katandmoon
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-10 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No shit
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. on compassionate grounds?
would that be like the "compassion" these catholic church leaders show their child rape victims during the cover up, hostile threat and hush money payoff process?
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-10 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Great point...
These monsters have compassion and a protective streak for a serial killer--but they
offer no protection to innocent children who are raped and abused by their own priests.

I see a common thread here--The catholic church seems to side with the predators--while
telling those who seek justice for victims--to shut the hell up.

The nerve of these parasites is astounding.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-10 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. what in the hell is wrong with the Catholic Church?
The church has gone totally outer limits.

There really are no words for our bizarre this institution has become.

It's wacky.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. What it sounds like is that he doesn't want Scotland grovelling to America- or Americans
to satisfying their never ending lust for vengeance and retribution- which can be particularly galling, since it allows its own war criminals, torturers and corporate criminals to walk away scot free, no matter how much harm they do.

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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. I agree
Scotland has been past explaining itself to anyone.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. the man was responsible for the deaths of 180+ people
he deserves to be punished

it has nothing to do with vengeance or retribution

if it had, the man would have suffered the same fate as his victims

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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. So says the country that refuses to prosecute its own criminals ...
... preferring to create mythical ones in foreign lands instead ...

:shrug:

> the man was responsible for the deaths of 180+ people

Not proven beyond reasonable doubt (hence the deal being done before
all the dirty washing being dragged out in the appeal that he was
bound to have won).

> he deserves to be punished

He has been in jail since the frame-up.

Remind me: How many years have your most famous war-criminals been
in prison so far?


> it has nothing to do with vengeance or retribution

Bullshit. It has everything to do with vengeance or retribution with
a side order of "distracting the ignorant masses" thrown in for good
measure.

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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. The cardinal is right.
the Scots have no obligation to answer to the US Senate.

We didn't like it when Tony was a lapdog, but it's ok for the Scottish First Minister?

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. Interesting that in all the caterwalling about Megrahi's release
No one seems to want to acknowledge that in all likelihood the real reason for his release was his planned appeal of his conviction would reveal he was framed by the CIA. The appeal would have shown, among other things, that the CIA introduced fake evidence in court and bribed a witnesses against Megrahi to the tune of millions of dollars for his perjured testimony. As part of the conditions for his release Megrahi had to agree to drop his appeal.


Police chief- Lockerbie evidence was faked

Published Date: 28 August 2005

A FORMER Scottish police chief has given lawyers a signed statement claiming that key evidence in the Lockerbie bombing trial was fabricated.

The retired officer - of assistant chief constable rank or higher - has testified that the CIA planted the tiny fragment of circuit board crucial in convicting a Libyan for the 1989 mass murder of 270 people.

snip

The evidence will form a crucial part of Megrahi's attempt to have a retrial ordered by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC). The claims pose a potentially devastating threat to the reputation of the entire Scottish legal system.

The officer, who was a member of the Association of Chief Police Officers Scotland, is supporting earlier claims by a former CIA agent that his bosses "wrote the script" to incriminate Libya.


http://news.scotsman.com/lockerbie/Police-chief-Lockerbie-evidence-was.2656485.jp


Lockerbie: Megrahi was framed
3 Sept 2009
In his latest column for the New Statesman, John Pilger describes the suppression of facts behind the furore over the "compassionate" release of the so-called Lockerbie bomber, Libyan Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi. He writes that Megrahi was "in effect blackmailed by the governments of Scotland and England" so that it would not be revealed in his appeal that he had been framed for a crime he did not commit.

snip

The American satirist Larry David once addressed a voluble crony as “a babbling brook of bullshit”. Such eloquence summarises the circus of Megrahi’s release.

No one in authority has had the guts to state the truth about the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 above the Scottish village of Lockerbie on 21 December 1988 in which 270 people were killed. The governments in England and Scotland in effect blackmailed Megrahi into dropping his appeal as a condition of his immediate release. Of course there were oil and arms deals under way with Libya; but had Megrahi proceeded with his appeal, some 600 pages of new and deliberately suppressed evidence would have set the seal on his innocence and given us more than a glimpse of how and why he was stitched up for the benefit of “strategic interests”.

A “key secret witness” at the original trial, who claimed to have seen Megrahi and his co-accused al-Alim Khalifa Fahimah (who was acquitted) loading the bomb on to the plane at Frankfurt, was bribed by the US authorities holding him as a “protected witness”. The defence exposed him as a CIA informer who stood to collect, on the Libyans’ conviction, up to $4m as a reward.

Megrahi was convicted by three Scottish judges sitting in a courtroom in “neutral” Holland. There was no jury. One of the few reporters to sit through the long and often farcical proceedings was the late Paul Foot, whose landmark investigation in Private Eye exposed it as a cacophony of blunders, deceptions and lies: a whitewash. The Scottish judges, while admitting a “mass of conflicting evidence” and rejecting the fantasies of the CIA informer, found Megrahi guilty on hearsay and unproven circumstance. Their 90-page “opinion”, wrote Foot, “is a remarkable document that claims an honoured place in the history of British miscarriages of justice”. (Lockerbie – the Flight from Justice by Paul Foot can be downloaded from the Private Eye website for £5).

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=547


Explosives analysis concludes semtex theory "scientifically implausible" in Pan Am 103 explosion

A scientific analysis of the Crown's discredited theory that approximately 1lb of semtex contained in a Toshiba radio caused the destruction of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, has concluded that the notion is "scientifically implausible."

The report, by Dr Ludwig de Braeckeleer agrees with the findings of John H Parkes, a former MOD contractor and explosives engineer who assisted in the rescue operations in Lockerbie, and subsequently submitted a report of his findings to the then Scottish Secretary Malcolm Rifkind. Parkes was never called as a witness to the trial.

Dr de Braeckeleer's findings reiterate the initial findings from US sources, that the Crown theory does not stand up to forensic scrutiny.

"In the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, researchers at the Centre of Explosives Technology Research in Socorro, New Mexico, estimated that up to thirty pounds of explosive was needed to destroy a Boeing 747, if the explosion had occured in the container. We agree with that estimate," the report says.

http://www.thefirmmagazine.com/features/501/Explosives_analysis_concludes_semtex_theory.html
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I've tried.

I don't know what it is that keeps so many from getting it..or even just responding coherently to it. :shrug:
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I guess too many people still rely on CNN and MSNBC
or read their daily newpapers to find out what is going on in the world. Surprise, surprise they don't get the full story.

Here's a link to an interesting audio from the Guns and Butter program on Pacifica Radio about how the corporate media self-censors itself, silents its own reporters and cooperates with government agencies in not reporting on issues which would potentially embarrass their overlords. You can stream the audio or download the MP3 at: http://kpfa.org/archive/id/60050

Please, WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA (and read my sig line).
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. It's the MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO kneejerk.
The clergyman is correct, America DOES have a rip-roaring culture of vengeance.

The MIC is counting on it in it's absurd on its face PR campaign against Wikileaks.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. ditto
Thanks for saving me the bother of finding those links. :hi:
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. You are most welcome dipsydoodle
Be sure to listen to the Guns and Butter program I linked above if you haven't heard it yet. It's baffling to see how many people are bullshitted, manipulated and played for suckers by official government agencies and their eager to please toadies and fart-catchers (as a now defunct Canadian, satirical magazine would refer to them) in the media.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. +1 (nt)
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. If that's true, then Scotland is lying, too. nt
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cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Are you crazy
or just loonie, why do you blame the U.S. for every little thing in the world? There was no conspiracy except in the minds of little people like you.
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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. He is not crazy
Why blame the US for every little thing in the world?

Everywhere in this country unemployment is being cut, teachers are being cut, firemen are being cut, anything that benefits the average working American is being cut.

Yet the US passed $750 billion in military spending this year. It has bases all over the world, including Cuba which has stated decades ago it does not want US military bases in Cuba.

The recent Wikileaks documents show that the US has death squads operating in Afghanistan killing civilians similar to the Phoenix program the US ran in Vietnam. And if people think its fine for the US to do that, then they should stop complaining about how the hijackers killed civilians on 9/11, since the US is actively *purposefully* killing civilians in Afghanistan as well.

If the US is going to have a US military presence all over the world, signals intelligence listening and the CIA causing plots all over the world then why be surprised when the US is blamed for things? Why are schools being shut all over the US and roads unpaved while guns were sent to Nepal's king to put down an uprising of peasants in western Nepal sick of how absentee landlords treated them?
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I think "awake" = "crazy" in some people's lexicon ...
If not, I can't understand why they keep playing the three monkeys with
regard to their own country's behaviour.
:shrug:
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mallard Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Re: great point misplaced on purpose
JohnyCanuck:

"No one seems to want to acknowledge that in all likelihood the real reason for his release was his planned appeal of his conviction would reveal he was framed by the CIA."

The vitality of this key point is ... even further diminished in terms of recognition by this latest sideshow. seems like the Church may be sort of 'paying up' here on promises/secrets quietly kept to the side, like something right out of some Charles Dickens story, where townfolk are deluded over ... complete, extremely guilty, lies.

Success with the maligned legal case in pinning the blame on Libya and thereafter drawing huge bahksheesh payments for victims and their lawyers, for them to only be let back into the market, has unfortunately emboldened very same plotters and schemers, several other fake incidents and fabricated major wars later.

Good point ... but one left completely unanwered ... for 'policy concerns', actually founded in ceaseless dedicated efforts at openly and boldly defaming a billion and their religion as 'the problem' and thereby ... actually compelling and sending their numbers to the very radical ends which they supposedly most despise; creating a veritable engine for major unreconcilable conflicts, too.

Americans with the sense of conviction(no pun intended) that violent Muslims are causing all the trouble are also the ones who hold onto hardcore insistance that the official story provided is on track. Muslims are 99% inclined to believe, for example, that it was in fact domestically-connected, manipulative warmongers who either let or made 9/11 happen ... over their own thinktanked, twisted sense of acheiving 'progress' through new and suddenly popular war.

The lines of division have never been clearer; note controversy over Ground Zero mosque plan. It's almost requisite for the 'fake truth' managers to double insist muslims are to blame by letting them know through press reports that they are not all that welcome in downtown Manhattan ... especially because of 9/11 being ... them who did it! This really works a number on the sheeple, big-time.

What vaguely worthy goals could possibly make these shadowy NWO commandeers go to such diabolical ends? Could it be friends wanting the contracts, perhaps; come what may. That would be my own best guess.

Making war by deception should be their friggin' matto, whether or not it already is!

Thanks for your poignant observations.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
16. i find nothing to disagree with in his statement.
"In many states - more than half - they kill the perpetrators of horrible crimes, by lethal injection or even firing squad - I say that is a culture of vengeance," he said.

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth - that is not our culture in Scotland and I would like to think that the US government, and these states that do still have capital punishment, would learn something from us."

The cardinal said Americans should "direct their gaze inwards" rather than scrutinise how the Scottish justice system worked.

He said the use of the death penalty meant the US kept "invidious company" with countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. The Catholic Church is one of the most objectively evil organizations to ever have existed
in human history.

The words of its cronies and enablers fail to impress.
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
21. He doesn't appear to be a pedophile, Cardinal.
You don't have to defend him.

As if anyone outside the RC church takes the RC church or its leaders seriously anymore after what they've done. The cardinal would be wise to remember Matthew 22:21: "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s".
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. Is al-Megrahi dead yet? I feel robbed.
I thought he had terminal prostate cancer, and had only a few months to live.

(I lost a family member in the bombing of Pan Am flight 103.)
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