Ohio candidate defends wearing Nazi uniform

[brooklynite]

Source: MSNBC

COLUMBUS, Ohio — A Republican congressional candidate from Ohio, countering criticism from a House GOP leader, said he did nothing wrong by wearing a Nazi uniform while participating in World War II re-enactments.

Rich Iott told The Associated Press in an interview Monday that he took part in the historical re-enactments to educate the public, and does not agree with the Nazis' views or their actions against Jews.

Asked whether it was wrong to wear a Nazi uniform, Iott said: "I don't see anything wrong about educating the public about events that happened. And that's the whole purpose of historical re-enacting."

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39619593/ns/politics-decision_2010/

---

As we all know from Warner Brothers cartoons, when you run off the side of the cliff, just keep your legs running forward and you won't plunge to the bottom...

[sandnsea]

1. I agree with the guy

Who started this Nazi crap against this guy in the first place? I think historical re-enactments are ridiculous, but in some ways they're no different than a play. I can't believe someone would try to tarnish this guy if this is all he was doing. I hate when zealots make me defend lunatics.

[mommalegga]

6. Geez I know. Talking about being judgemental and all...

Cant really have a good re-enactment without both sides if Im not mistaken.

So all the guys dressed up as Confederates are doing it because at heart they are a bunch of racists who yearn to own slaves...:eyes:

Smearing a whole bunch of people because one of them is a Republican..

Joe McCarthy would be proud.

[Kelvin Mace]

45. Seems to me

that a politician would have more sense.

He may not be a Nazi, but he IS quite stupid. This disqualifies him in my eyes.

[mommalegga]

46. Yes he should have more sense IF

There was a widespread belief that doing re-enactments means you endorse the side your acting, particulary if your on the "wrong" side. I dont think thats the case, hence I think most people would roll their eyes like I did on this supposed crime.

[L.Torsalo]

58. Did you both miss the statement

by this nazi...he relishes the role of playing SS, he considers the nazi collaborators in WW2 to be freedom fighters. He is a present day danger with old school hatred.
But Amerikkka is probably ready for an unabashed nazi leader. Seig SHIT!

[PavePusher]

70. That's not what he said.

Nice innuedno though. Do you work for Breibart?

[Blue_Tires]

67. Here in Va, Confederate re-enactors have long been

a haven for far right, return-to-segregation, "the-country-would-be-better-had-our-side-won" KKK apologists... I'm not saying they are all like that, but these re-enactment groups have never seemed eager to condemn the racists in their midst...I wouldn't imagine the Waffen-SS lovers to be any different...

And a lot of posters here are talking past each other: There IS a difference between a re-enactor who is just into historical warfare, and the one who claims the methods, politics and philosophies of a certain side as their own, to the point of whitewashing (or worse, glorifying) the unsavory parts of its history

[No Elephants]

94. +1

[bherrera]

99. Dressing up like a Nazi is OK if the man says he's a bad guy

Sometimes people dress like Dracula, or the Frankenstein Monster. Therefore I don't see the problem. But his response is wrong. He should say "when there is re-enactment, we are playing like children, and some of us have to be the bad guys, and I enjoy playing the role of the bad guy in this game". It is very simple.

But one has to wonder, does a person who like to play the role of a bad guy deserve to be elected? Here in Spain we have feasts called "Moors and Christians", it is done to have a street party. We have no bad feelings about these sides, because many of us think the two were bad guys to each other. Sometimes people dress like Moors, sometimes they dress like Christians. Most of the time they sing and drink. It is better than having a game like these Americans do. And the tourists like it.

[PavePusher]

69. Don't forget the British Loyalists in American Revolution re-enacting

Obviously all evil people in real life, right?

[RecoveringRighty]

7. I'm sorry, but I humbly disagree

The Nazi uniform and imagery are extremely painful for many people and only a Repub. would defend that. It is akin to people dressing up as the KKK and re-enacting lynchings to give others a historical perspective. It has no place in a civil society and I dare this aryan-wannabe to keep defending his actions.

[sandnsea]

14. Are Nazi movies too painful?

Like I said, I think war reenactments are ridiculous. But there is a huge difference between participating in a historical reenactment and wearing a Nazi uniform to a masquerade party, for instance. I would be there are a number of people who have represented the confederacy in reenactments and aren't secretly pining to go on lynchings either.

[pattmarty]

40. A couple of things here. First, he chooses a SS div that was directly.........

........involved in atrocities. Secondly, in more than one European country this is AGAINST the law. Think that if a Dem had done this there would be 10 times the uproar about it, calling for him to drop out of the race. One last thing, compare David Vitter and Elliot Spitzer. They both essentially did the same thing and Spitzer was fucking crucified and FORCED to resign, Vitter hardly a fucking peep AND he will win his seat again this Nov.

[No Elephants]

90. +1

[saigon68]

103. Diaper David Vitter

[catgirl]

41. No different than a play??????

ZEALOTS??????

[pattmarty]

42. Exactly. You have to wonder about some peoples motives.

[SargeUNN]

65. here is the problem with this

The group omits some pretty important parts of history like the Wikings mission of rounding up Jews and their torturing of Jews before they killed them. It really sugar coats the Nazi Unit to make them look like average soldiers that were brave and honorable.

[CreekDog]

77. if that's really why he did it

but go ahead and believe it.

why would someone dressing up as a Nazi lie about anything? :eyes:

[No Elephants]

89. I thought the website whitewashed the Nazi group and he defended that? See also Reply 65.

[activa8tr]

2. Yes, If I wanted to learn about Nazi Germany, he'd be the FIRST person

I'd want to have teach me about it.

:sarcasm:

Talk about bullshit justifications for this happy horse shit.

WE know they just LOVE uniforms and the best ones are the ones the SS wore, right?

Of all periods in history to choose to "re-enact"....why choose Nazi Germany? Makes no sense.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. Nothing wrong with participating in historical re-enactments... even if you're on the losing side.

Heck, the Germans had cooler WWII guns too... who WOULDN'T want to be on the Axis side of the re-enactment.

[COLGATE4]

13. Yeah, they had cooler gas chambers too. Your point????

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. My point is that there's nothing wrong with historical re-enactments.

Someone's got to play the part of the bad guys... after all it's nothing but large scale theatrics. Entertainment.

The concern over some guy playing a Nazi soldier in a re-enactment is on the order of chastizing Bruno Ganz for portraying Hitler in Der Untergang. It's acting people.

[LanternWaste]

30. it begs the question why the enactment organization...

It begs the question why the enactment organization's website whitewashed *all* the atrocities done by this particular unit. Atrocities that any historian would accept as being part and parcel of this unit and its identity.

It's intent as well as acting-- one does not deny the other.

[LanternWaste]

28. Wermacht or SS?

Wermacht or SS?

One was a military organization and always had been. The other was a political organization with lots of "cooler guns"

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

32. If the reenactment calls for those roles... then people play thier roles.

I am unfamiliar with thier reenactments, so I can't say why or why not there should be ss/wermacht involved in the activities.

[LanternWaste]

35. Are you familiar with the website of the organization

Are you familiar with the website of the organization which makes zero mention of that particular SS unit's non-military "engagements"?

Seems many people skim over the obvious and willful lack of relevant, though ugly information on its website given by these re-enactors, ignoring the obvious context it provides.

[Moosepoop]

43. Agreed... here's a page from their site that has been taken down.

This link is to Google's cache of the page, the original link no longer works (it was cached on July 28, 2010):

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oCR3FLh-jmwJ:www.wiking.org/topics/unitpics.htm+wiking+columbus+ohio&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

(If that link doesn't work, enter the keywords "Wiking Columbus Ohio" into Google and click on the cache link for the entry "2/SS-Pz.Pi.Btl.5 Unit Members Page - 5th SS Wiking German ..." at the website "http://.wiking.org/topics/unitpics .htm")

From that now-missing page...

Wiking

Meet the Wiking Reenactor

Page Updated: 15 MAY 2010

2/SS-Panzer Pioniere Bataillon 5
Reenactment Unit
"Ersten rein und Letzten raus!"
(First in, last out!)

Our Mission - We are committed to portraying professional German soldiers in the struggle against Bolshevism of the mid-Twentieth Century. We do this by outfitting ourselves with authentic uniforms, equipment, weapons, and attending public displays to educate the public and tactical reenactment battle recreations. When moving tactically, we adhere to original German squad tactics. In looking and acting like original WW II German soldiers, we feel that this not only preserves history, but honors the men who actually served. (Red highlighting and bolding in this sentence was mine).

We portray combat assault engineers (Sturmpioniere) from the 5.SS Panzer Division "Wiking", specifically of the SS-Pioniere Bataillon 5 (core Pioniere formation within "Wiking"), 2.Kompanie (armored/motorized).

This is followed by a long list of members, each with their "rank", their city/state, they year since each has been "in service" and a pic of each in his uniform.

They don't consider themselves actors "depicting the bad guys because somebody has to" -- they are glorifying and, in their own words, honoring those who wore those uniforms for real.

Gee... I wonder when this page was taken down, and when the disclaimers about not espousing Nazi views or accepting those who do were added to the pages that remain?

[Ichingcarpenter]

98. Waffen-SS uniform stated in the news article

After the war at the Nuremberg Trials, the Waffen-SS was condemned as a criminal organization

[Evasporque]

60. There is something wrong with someone who has a room full of Nazi shit...

Like this guy probably has...banners, uniforms, photos...

[No Elephants]

91. See Reply 65.

[dennis4868]

4. Sorry....

there is something very wrong when a person spends his day dressing up as a SS Nazi soldier. This is disgusting. I lost 20 family members in the holocaust, all murdered by people wearing that same fucking uniform. That uniform represents hate and people should be sensitive to that and not dress up in it to have fun and bond with their sons.

[smiley]

26. agree

especially a politician. Doesn't seem like a smart decision at all.

[Mad_Dem_X]

63. I completely agree.

There are better ways to bond with your children.

[chimpymustgo]

105. Agree.

[bowens43]

5. I agree with him too.....

nothing wrong with participating in historical re-enactments.

[Botany]

8. educating the public?

Waffen SS were the troops that Hitler used to cleanse occupied lands.



The Waffen SS in Warsaw, Poland burning the homes of Jews as they ship 'em to the camps ...... women and children
gassed right away and the healthy men worked to death as slave laborers.

[tabasco]

9. All these bullshit apologists are a sad indication what DU has become

In general, reenactors strongly identify with the group they portray.

I have little doubt such is the case with this reich-wing fuckhead.

[COLGATE4]

11. K&R X 1000. I lost family to these murderers too.

[customerserviceguy]

12. Ok, so in your mind, a re-enactor is unfit to hold political office

What about a candidate who watches a re-enactment, is that any different to you?

[tabasco]

31. Why don't you show me where I said that?

Because you can't.

[customerserviceguy]

37. I just want to know where on the continuum

you feel that watching a re-enactment is, as opposed to dressing up for one.

[No Elephants]

93. Depends. One time or watching over and over, with your kids, while wearing the uniform?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabasco]

33. Probably more sane than some

motherfucker strutting around in Nazi uniform, "reenacting," and running for office.

It's not like central casting told him what part he got. He selected to wear that shit because he admires it.

Your insulting post indicates a lack of critical thinking ability.

[jillan]

68. It's unbelievable that anyone could defend a Nazi wannabe.

[COLGATE4]

10. What the fuck is wrong with you people!!!!???????????

Of all the half-assed phony justifications for seeing the issue from 'the poor guy's point of view'. This asshole didn't dress up as a German Army soldier to play WWII reenactments - he and his coterie of misbegotten miscreants decided to glorify, ape and mimic the Waffen SS. If you don't know, the SS was not a regular military organization. It was instead a paramilitary group set up to be Hitler's own Praetorian Guard. The Waffen SS was responsible, along with the Einsatzgruppen (Special Action Forces) for the eradication of all the Jews in the lands the Nazis occupied. As an organization it would be hard to find any one which has more bloodstained hands than the SS. Dressing up to "play" SS is like dressing up to "play" KKK. This idiot deserves our greatest possible reprobation, not our misguided 'understanding'.:mad: :9 :wtf:

[Botany]

15. The Waffen SS was brutal beyond comprehension

[Pathwalker]

18. "Well, just because it looks like a duck(nazi), dresses like a duck(nazi),

talks like a duck(nazi), and hangs out with other ducks(nazis), it doesn't mean it's a duck(nazi)."
It's a re-enactment. Yeah, that's the ticket...
That's their story and they're sticking to it, because they have nothing else.
Sick.

[sandnsea]

22. Was it part of a reenactment event?

If they were having a party, say like a murder mystery evening, that's quite a different story. If it was part of an historical reenactment, say like a play, that's an entirely different situation.

Provide the accurate context. Putting on a Nazi uniform, in and of itself, isn't grounds for immediate banishment. What was that recent movie, Inglorious Basterds? What of all of those indiivduals who put on a Nazi uniform? What of Tarantino for even making such a movie?

[Pathwalker]

23. It's in the OP.

n/t

[sandnsea]

24. WWII Historical Reenactment Society

I looked it up to get the context.

http://www.worldwartwohrs.org/index.htm

[No Elephants]

95. See Reply 43. Websites get changed after stuff hits fans. See also Replies 10, 15, 29, 33, 43, 58,

and 67.

[COLGATE4]

66. Don't be silly. The fact that a movie actor gets paid to portray

a Nazi soldier is a far cry from what we're talking about here. The actor doesn't believe it - this asshole does. He and his merry little band of wannabe fascists delight in glorifying the 'heroic Wiking Waffen SS group'. And no, it wasn't part of some half-assed murder mystery evening or a 'historical reenactment'. These shits just like dressing up like the Nazis they wish they could really be.

[Igel]

48. This isn't just "Waffen SS."

This is a very specific combat engineering brigade from a specific formation within one out of nearly 40 divisions.

This particular one wasn't even normal Waffen SS. It was a volunteer division made up mostly of soldiers from occupied countries, with an admixture of regular SS. Rather than engage primarily in killing Jews (although there are claims that some parts of this division did precisely that, even if not in a systematic way) it fought the Soviets, on the front lines, and was often outmatched.

I don't like the Nazis. I don't like Stalinists. In a reenactment that portrays the Nazis fighting the Soviets, I'm hard pressed to have a strong opinion. I'd go with the Soviets because they were more incompetent and more obsessed with killing their own citizens; this muted their threat to the rest of the world, at least until they found a way to make messes that preserved plausible deniability.

[PavePusher]

71. Why must you bring sanity and facts....

into a perfectly good round of "The Sky Is Falling"?

You're going to really hurt the wittle feewings of all the hand-wringers...

[Courtesy Flush]

61. What if he'd been an actor in a movie?

Hollywood actors sometimes become politicians. What if one had played the role of a Nazi, or a pedophile in a film, instead of a reinactment? When kids play cops and robbers, somebody's got to the the robber.

Reality check, dude.

[No Elephants]

96. Please see Reply 92. Also, Replies 10, 15, 29, 33, 43, 58 & 67.

I'm still reading the thread, so there may be more.

[Mad_Dem_X]

64. Thank you!

I am astounded by the amount of apologists on this thread. Very disturbing.

[Dash87]

16. Anybody wearing a Nazi uniform is scum, imo.

It's like wearing a KKK robe.

♥

[onenote]

25. including actors?

Alec Guiness
Ian McKellen
Anthony Hopkins
Ralph Finnes?

Depicting a Nazi by wearing a Nazi uniform doesn't in and of itself make someone scum. Context is everything. At this point, I don't know enough about the context of this guy's activities to pass judgement.

[Dash87]

55. Obviously Actors are different.

However, I would question the sanity of somebody who just wears a Nazi uniform to a party.

♥

[No Elephants]

92. You see no difference between a professional actor doing a one time gig bc

acting is how he or she makes a living and someone who chooses dressing up like a Nazi year after year simply bc he enjoys doing that? See also Reply ##s 19, 43 and 65. Nothing like (supposedly) choosing that for your son, too.

[Ratty]

34. Oh noes! Not "The Sound of Music"

That's my favorite musical.

[saltpoint]

79. But by god, let's hear it for those nuns who vandalized

the Nazis' cars so Julie Andrews could escape into Switzerland.

[No Elephants]

97. No problem. Pls. see Reply 92.

[PavePusher]

72. So, intent has no standing, eh? n/t

[bulloney]

20. If Iott & Co. did this to educate the public, what kind of outreach activities did they have?

I would like to know what kind of forum did they use to educate the people on Nazism. Funny, I never heard of such activities and I live near Iott's hometown of Toledo.

Iott should come clean and come up with a list of verifiable educational activities he and his band of merry Nazis had conducted for public education and information on Nazism. If they're legitimate activities, it would shut this whole discussion up real quickly.

[Ian David]

21. He should have said it only happened after he took Ambien, and he has no memory of it. n/t

[CJCRANE]

27. "I'm not a crook. I'm not a witch. I'm not a nazi."

Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut.

[Evasporque]

59. More Tea Party Defences....I'm not a homophobe, I'm not a racist....

[PavePusher]

73. Correct. Follow your own advice. n/t

[oberliner]

29. Some more info from his "re-enactment" group

Iott, a member of the Ohio Military Reserve, added, "I've always been fascinated by the fact that here was a relatively small country that from a strictly military point of view accomplished incredible things. I mean, they took over most of Europe and Russia, and it really took the combined effort of the free world to defeat them. From a purely historical military point of view, that's incredible."

Iott says the group chose the Wiking division in part because it fought on the Eastern Front, mainly against the Russian Army, and not U.S. or British soldiers. The group's website includes a lengthy history of the Wiking unit, a recruitment video, and footage of goose-stepping German soldiers marching in the Warsaw victory parade after Poland fell in 1939. The website makes scant mention of the atrocities committed by the Waffen SS, and includes only a glancing reference to the "twisted" nature of Nazism. Instead, it emphasizes how the Wiking unit fought Bolshevist Communism:

Nazi Germany had no problem in recruiting the multitudes of volunteers willing to lay down their lives to ensure a "New and Free Europe", free of the threat of Communism. National Socialism was seen by many in Holland, Denmark, Norway, Finland, and other eastern European and Balkan countries as the protector of personal freedom and their very way of life, despite the true underlying totalitarian (and quite twisted, in most cases) nature of the movement. Regardless, thousands upon thousands of valiant men died defending their respective countries in the name of a better tomorrow. We salute these idealists; no matter how unsavory the Nazi government was, the front-line soldiers of the Waffen-SS (in particular the foreign volunteers) gave their lives for their loved ones and a basic desire to be free.

Historians of Nazi Germany vehemently dispute this characterization. "These guys don't know their history," said Charles W. Sydnor, Jr., a retired history professor and author of "Soldiers of Destruction: The SS Death's Head Division, 1933-45," which chronicles an SS division. "They have a sanitized, romanticized view of what occurred." Sydnor added that re-enactments like the Wiking group's are illegal in Germany and Austria. "If you were to put on an SS uniform in Germany today, you'd be arrested."

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/10/why-is-this-gop-house-candidate-dressed-as-a-nazi/64319/

[24601]

38. Professor Sydnor may never have seen Valkyrie, starring Tom

Cruise as a german officer trying to kill Hitler. Key parts of the movie were filmed in Berlin and plenty of actors wore SS Nazi uniforms as well as german military uniforms. They used authentic swastikas and Nazi insignia - one local resident filed a complaint. None, however, were arrested (not even "Hitler") so it appears the professor's expertise is flawed. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985699/

[oberliner]

39. They got special permission from the German government to do so

He is correct about the law in Germany.

In any case, what do you make of this particular group that the Republican hopeful was affiliated with?

[24601]

53. The good professor didn't cite what the law was - he made a

blanket statement that you'd be arrested for wearing an SS uniform - and he cited no exceptions.

On the surface, I have nothing against re-en-actors and other actors, although I always root for the north or in this case the allies. If their intent as stated is to educate and make sure nobody forgets about the atrocities, that's fine with me. It believe it's also consistent with "never again." I really don't know enough about them to judge them either way. The parent organization, the WWI Reenactment Group seems legit. And if you play cops & robbers, somebody has to be the robbers so playing a german or confederate (as Duvall & Sheen both played Lee well) isn't inherently bad.

One major problem though - in the photo, why are they hugging the gay british guy in the skirt? Is he also coming out?

[oberliner]

54. Who were the good guys, Stalin or Hitler?

This particular group conducted re-enactments of the Eastern Front battles between the Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

Duvall and Sheen got paid handsomely for the roles that they played. The folks who re-enact Civil War and other battles are hobbyists who are doing what they are doing without pay and put a considerable amount of effort into the hobby.

Dressing up as a Nazi as a hobby seems to me to be a bit different from playing a role in a movie. Actors in movies have played serial killers and other unsavory characters, but if a hobbyist went around re-enacting the Son of Sam killings, folks would be right to look at them askance and view that activity differently than playing the role in a film.

[24601]

81. same question restated, was it the French or Indians who won

the French & Indian War? Answer that and you have my answer to yours?

[oberliner]

87. Are there French and Indian war re-enactors?

I only asked the question about Hitler and Stalin because you brought up the idea that a re-enactment needs both sides.

Look, there are modern-day Nazis who continue to spread hate in the name of the same ideology using many of the same symbols and iconography from WWII.

I think it is a little disturbing for someone to get dressed up as a nazi as a hobby in light of the nature of Nazi Germany and the still current problem of neo-Nazis spreading hate.

I do believe that most people would have some serious qualms about doing something like that, as is evidenced from the reaction by many to this particular situation.

That being said, I appreciate that we are not going to agree about this so I guess I will just leave it at that.

[24601]

88. It's OK not agreeing - I'm not going to say however that either

Hitler or Stalin were good guys. Stalin ranks as a world-class mass murderer. I don't see either holding a moral superiority.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't use opportunities to educate about the Nazis. And it SHOULD give one pause about seeing people in Nazi uniforms. In that uneasiness needs to be a judgment about the value - and that's the re-enactor society is under the public microscope.

I don't infer that to reenact them is to agree with or glorify them. In that context the educational value, or not becomes the key. The real problem that I have is that isn't taking place on DU, only political shots - and agendas aside, that cheapens the more important debate.

[No Elephants]

101. THAT's your only problem with the photo?

[No Elephants]

100. Pls. see Reply 92. And many others on this thread.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. And now, the GOP in a nutshell

Emphasis on the "nut" part:

"I am not a crook!"

Richard Nixon, 1974

"I am not a witch!"

Christine O'Donnell, 2010

"I am not a Nazi!", 2010

Rich Iott, 2010

[John Kerry VonErich]

47. For those re-enactment haters I ask you

Could someone please explain Society for Creative Anacronism?

[brooklynite]

56. SCA participants take on "generic" roles...

Knight, Jester, etc. They don't, for example, re-enact the Holy Inquisition.

Personally, I don't object to re-enactors, but if he's going to step into the political arena, he should have been sensitive to the symbolism, and should at least have acknowledged that some people would have been troubled by his choice, rather than blundering forward with his "educating the public" defense.

[truthisfreedom]

49. It doesn't matter if his argument is correct. We all know it's about perception.

Lucky for us.

[taught_me_patience]

50. He's got a right to wear that shit

and we've got a right to think he's a Nazi asshole because of it.

[PavePusher]

74. Even if you're wrong. n/t

[saltpoint]

51. Wearing a Nazi uniform lends a legitimacy to a

government in which genocide was a central feature.

It is a different claim when an actor portrays a German officer or soldier, for example, in a stage play or a film because the role is assigned per a contracted script, where the re-enactment groups require volunteers, and one volunteers willingly or not.

To me that's a huge difference.

If Iott is terribly concerned about "educating the public" I would suggest he volunteer instead at the local library and assist in efforts to raise funds to bolster the library's coffers.

[PavePusher]

75. What is a historical re-enactment...

if not a play on a larger stage?

You are not the arbiter of "educating the public" no matter how strenuously you may self-appoint.

[saltpoint]

78. You as in me? No. A volunteer for a volunteer group

is under no commitment of any kind -- legal or financial -- as opposed to a woman or man who plays a morally challenged character in a play or film.

Again, I say there's a huge difference.

"Arbiter" is a loaded word in the context of the Third Reich, is it not?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saltpoint]

83. One regrets that you are unable to accept an opinion

falling differently in the discussion.

One might even be inspired to ask you why you're defending the Third Reich.

I've never found it all that attractive myself.

Cheers.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saltpoint]

85. You've been unable to make the distinction between

your apparent support of Rich Iott's Nazi pageantry and the decidedly clear views of many in this thread opposing it.

Your turn.

[struggle4progress]

52. He should change his first name to "Id"

[redwitch]

57. LOL

Id Iott from Ohio. I likey.

[rustyd55]

62. shame

It is sad the american people are going to elect these people. The false profit is among us.And they have us thinking they are going to make things better.They blame Obama for the economy that Bush destroyed.Let them get elected we will see more billionaires crying about taxes and when we are thrown in the street they will say its the american way.When the upper middle class starts living in poverty then we will see a collapse.Then the people will see what their sons and daughters are fighting for.Not the american people but the foreign interest and big corp billionaires that want them put on the street.So make more nazi uniforms for the gop for i will die before I send my children to fight for they're country.

[PavePusher]

76. History... naaa, fugedaboudid. n/t

[No Elephants]

102. Very false dichotomy.

[saltpoint]

80. Some kid -- I don't know which kid and don't feel like

looking it up on IMDB just this moment -- portrayed 'Roger' in the early 1960s original film of William Golding's LORD OF THE FLIES.

Roger is a nihilist. He is sadistic. He is a sociopath, given to violent impulses to hurt or murder others and he is possessed of no capacity for remorse or empathy.

We have to understand that the kid who plays him is not Roger. He is Roger in the film but he is not himself Roger in real life, and not a nihilist or sociopath.

Iott CHOSE to join this little pageant group to play like the soldiers whose high commander wished for Europe that Jewish people and other "undesirables" be exterminated en masse. The group Iott sought and joined has a legal right to express its views but under that same provision we have an equal right to suggest that their honoring a government that wished genocide unto a people is morally reprehensible.

As others have suggested, it is also incredibly stupid for someone running for Congress to dress up in Nazi regalia for weekend romps.

[saltpoint]

86. Kurt Vonnegut served in Germany in the Second World

War.

In CAT'S CRADLE, he writes:

- - -


“And I propose to you that if we are to pay our sincere respects to the hundred lost children of San Lorenzo, that we might best spend the day despising what killed them; which is to say, the stupidity and viciousness of all mankind.”

--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., Cat’s Cradle

- - -

And if we are to pay respects to the many millions of lost people of the Second World War, with particular reference to the targeted population of Jews, we might best spend our days despising what killed them, instead of dressing up in the uniforms of those who DID kill them.

Iott's defense of his Nazi fetish disgusts me.

[No Elephants]

104. I saw this guy interviewed on TV. The interviewer said the group's website was misleading bc it

said nothing negative about the Nazi group Iott and his friends portray. (The website has since been changed. Pls. see Reply 43.)

Iott's response? "I see nothing wrong with that bc that website is a recruiting tool." (meaning a tool to get people to sign on to portray these Nazis)

He did not argue whether the website was or was not misleading.

Forget which group--He thinks it's okay to mislead people if you're trying to recruit them? That alone is piss poor.

Please see also, Reply ##s 10, 15, 20, 29, 33, 43, 58, 67 and 92.


I can't believe how many posters defended this very distasteful rethug again and again. And with no facts, no knowledge of re-enactors in general, or of this guy and his re-enactment group or of the re-enactments in which he participated in particular and using lame, apples and oranges arguments, to boot. Gives me a new insight.

eta: Gibbs quotes Obama and some here demand a video of Obama making that statement. (After all, why would anyone rational assume the President's press secretary is speaking for the President when he speaks to the press?) AP prints something and everyone points out AP leans Republican, so we shouldn't believe a syllable.

But a rethug says educating the public was his only motive in donning a Nazi uniform voluntarily year after year--besides bonding with his son while in Nazi uniform-- and we'rre all supposed to take that at face value?

Geez, even a Republicann Party leader--Cantor--repudiated this guy, breaking Reagan's 11th commandment in order to be on the correct side of this controversy, but half the DUer on this thread (so far) defended him? Wow.