Students pray before Soddy-Daisy game

[d_r]

Source: Chattanooga Times Free Press

More than 1,200 students, fans and football players stood hand-in-hand and prayed Friday night at the Soddy-Daisy and Rhea County football game.

This comes after Superintendent Jim Scales banned public prayer over public address systems after being pressured from a national organization.

One student asked the fans to join them on the 50-yard line while they prayed. Observers said there was no microphone, just a private prayer between the two communities and a mass “amen.”

Read more: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/oct/22/students-pray-soddy-daisy-game/

---

The drama continues! The great you-can't-make-this-stuff-up thing is that they are playing Rhea County, of the Scopes Monkey Trial fame.

Apparently it wasn't enough though, as Soddy-Daisy lost the game.

I think this is great - hopefully those students just learned that they have freedom of speech - nobody is stopping them, there is no anti-Christian purge - but that the government does not.

Well, I hope some of them will get it.

[dflprincess]

1. Odds are most the little Pharisees think they just struck a blow

for freedom against a tyrannical government that would infringe on their "right" to shove their beliefs down anyone and everyone's throats.

[emilyg]

3. Those that joined

hands did so willingly.

[dflprincess]

8. With no regard for anyone in the stands who might feel that praying before a football

game is not appropriate.

[Rage for Order]

60. ...

:nopity:

[pattmarty]

33. Well, I "willingly" wouldn't of. I'm sorry, but that is PRESSURE to...........

.......conform to something that is REALLY un-American.

[No Elephants]

39. No peer pressure? Besides, whether those who prayed ALL really wanted to pray is only part of the

Constitutional equation.

Americans should not have to choose between attending a public school football game and being unwilling witnesses to an evangelical prayer meeting on the 50 yard line of a field paid for by their taxes.

[mzteris]

73. Can I have an "AMEN!" n/t

[d_r]

5. I know. I know.

And in the weirdest way, I can only hope that when they think to themselves that they stood up and stuck it to the man that it plants a tiny little seed that might one day lead to a semblance of critical thinking skills.

Freedom of speech, of assembly, of religion. I really do hope they can learn from it, but I'm naive like that and I know I should be skeptical.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. That's how it's spun.

Be nice to have them see themselves as a mockery on national media though.

[Rage for Order]

59. Yours is such a tired canard

The notion that people praying in public where others can hear them is "(shoving) their beliefs down anyone and everyone's throats" ridiculous at best. Do you have the same opinion of people who put bumper stickers on their cars or political campaign signs in their yards? What about people who discuss controversial (or not) issues in public but speak loud enough to be overheard by people who are not a part of the conversation? Are these people also "shoving their beliefs down anyone and everyone's throats"?

:eyes:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

61. this is a bit unrealistic

Kids gang up on those who stand out, or stand up and are different. If there was a child of an agnostic or atheist family, I guarantee you they would be suffering from pressure and abuse.

That is why it is so important to stop these ridiculous charades, with people praying to a fairy tale idol, thinking that their prayers will actually help them make that 3d and long pass.

[Rage for Order]

65. So then you support school uniforms at all levels of education?

Can't have anyone appear to be the slightest bit different from anyone else. That could be dangerous.

[Zoeisright]

66. That's ridiculous.

Whether you believe it or not, there WAS pressure for others to join in. There always is. Many Christians get furious when anyone doesn't bow to their wishes or join in on their proselytizing. Anyone who was asked to join who didn't was bullied.

And I say this after going to parochial schools for 12 years. Kids who pray openly are doing so to show off and to intimidate those who don't want to join in.

[Rage for Order]

67. Do you have any evidence to back up any of the claims you made?

"...there WAS pressure for others to join in. There always is."

"Many Christians get furious when anyone doesn't bow to their wishes or join in on their proselytizing."

"Anyone who was asked to join who didn't was bullied."


You make plenty of assertions but do not produce a single bit of supporting evidence. I've been around large groups of people who were praying (including in church) scores of times and didn't pray myself, and I didn't feel ostracized or judged. There are very few people who will compromise a core belief (such as whether or not they believe in God and/or pray) simply because they're afraid that someone will make fun of them.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

69. I can't even begin to fathom how someone sane

would compare school uniforms with bullying by christian thugs. Having been a victim of it in my childhood, I can assure you that not having the identical belief, or worse, no belief at all, was far worse than my ill-fitting uniform.

[Rage for Order]

79. "Bullying by Christian thugs"?

That's quite the display of bigoted intolerance. Please point me to the part of the article where students claimed they were bullied because they didn't participate in the prayer. I'll wait.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

82. Wait. You are not worth the time or effort.

You accuse others of what you practice.

[Zoeisright]

85. That's why I ignore people like that.

Life's too short to get into an argument with hypocrites.

[Scout]

90. my daddy taught me "argue with a fool, he does the same" n/t

[DonCoquixote]

83. actually yes

They make students focus on using their minds to be individuals, instead of their parent's wallet. People like Madonna, Fidel Castro, Rosie O Donell and most Catholic Comedians show this first-hand by being very..ahem, individual, despite Catholic school.

[provis99]

77. but could I yell Satanic slurs while they were praying?

I doubt they'd tolerate my "prayer" the way they would expect me to tolerate their mass "prayer"

[Rage for Order]

81. Sure you could

There's no law against being an inconsiderate asshole, which is what that type of behavior would make you if you chose to engage in it.

[Jokerman]

89. You seem to be confused about some basic concepts.

My car and my yard are PRIVATE property. No one else pays for the property or the maintenance.

A public school and the grounds are PUBLIC property. Taxpayers pay for the property and the maintenance.

An organized prayer on public property is designed specifically to alienate and intimidate anyone who doesn't want to conform to the mob.

You are either confused or being deliberately obtuse.

[Xmit]

2. I'm glad they were able to exercise their rights. NM

[AlbertCat]

11. As a complete and total atheist...

.... this action didn't bother me. It wasn't coerced or projected over a loud speaker. Just people who came to the invitation to pray, not some "YOU MUST PRAY WITH US" grandstanding....tho' it was grandstanding.

[dogfacedboy]

18. Ya beat me to it, but thanks for posting this. My feelings exactly.

[SkyDaddy7]

31. As an Atheist I would love to see...

A group of Muslims hit the 50 yard line throw down the prayer mats & pray...Then we would see if these people are truly for everyone's right to pray or just Christians. I think we all know the answer to that question.

Of course that will not happen...My only problem is why in the middle of the field? That was done to shove it in anyone's face who thinks such behavior is not appropriate at a public school event. But this is the country we live in where the Constitution is just a piece of paper folks wave around at Tea Parties.

[lame54]

55. that was to say - "this game won't commence until we are done with what we doing"

[Up Quark]

87. I am reminded of one of my favorites:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/christian_oppression

[No Elephants]

41. Whether this bothers you is not a Constitutional standard.

[awoke_in_2003]

21. as long as those who chose...

not to exercise their rights are not blackballed.

[Jamastiene]

29. Exactly.

There will always be prayer in public schools as long as tests, midterm exams, and final exams are given. When it is not forced on anyone and no one is punished, fine. As long as no one is forced or punished if they do NOT want to pray, the others can do whatever they want.

I don't think some people understand that prayer in public schools is not the issue. It is government led prayer that is the issue.

[No Elephants]

42. Silent prayer at your own desk is very different. And, no, it is not only

government led prayer in schools that violates the Constitution. If a student got up in front of homeroom to lead a prayer, that would be a Constitutional problem, thoough using a classroom for an extra-curicular prayer club on the same terms as secular extra-curicular clubs use classrooms would not.

ETA: http://dese.mo.gov/schoollaw/freqaskques/prayer.htm

[No Elephants]

44. How do you ensure they're not "blackballed?"

[awoke_in_2003]

71. there lies the problem...

if you abstain, people take note. They may claim to not do so, but they do.

[pattmarty]

34. I'm sure you are.

[ZombieHorde]

4. Delete, I thought this was R/T. They are pretty funny though. nt

[Grassy Knoll]

6. I always liked Rhea County's god better.........

it's unfair ,I know, but if you look at the world some do have a better god.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. that is why Rhea County..

won the game :)

[Ikonoklast]

40. That's because they sacrificied a young bull on the altar of Baal before the game.

The Great God Baal was pleased by the fragrant smoke of the burnt sacrifice, and bestowed a win upon his faithful worshippers.


Makes as much sense as any other excuse.

[awoke_in_2003]

70. hot diggity...

a game and BBQ :)

[msongs]

7. Soddy-mites :-) nt

[No Elephants]

45. LOL! (Mmm. Salt.)

[AlbertCat]

9. as Soddy-Daisy lost the game.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. gad's will

gadfly's will?

[iamthebandfanman]

10. as was meant to be

and thanks to them to proving our point that taking it out of school officials ability doesnt hurt their religion. ;)

[No Elephants]

43. Not praying publicly on public property doesn't hurt their religion, either.

I know of no religion that requires public prayer in places paid for with American tax money.

As far as Christianity in particular, the Bible attributes these two commandments to Jesus:

Matthew 6 (KJV)
"1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

[DeSwiss]

12. K&R

Matthew 5:5 "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."


- It might help if they'd actually read the dern thing once and a while......

[awoke_in_2003]

23. one of my favorite versus...

the other being "as you do onto the least of my brethren, you do onto me" (we atheists know a verse or two)

[pattmarty]

35. Me I have better things to do, like laundry, clean the catbox and............

........drink fucking beer. So NO THANKS.

[No Elephants]

46. Oops. I posted before reading this. WWJP? (What Would Jesus Post?)

[chollybocker]

13. Keep your bloody prayers at home

or in your tax-free churches. Is that so hard to understand? Mankind has bent over backward for your pious mythology bunk long enough. IT'S ILLEGAL in 2010 America, as it should be. Give us all a rest, ignorant fundies.

Gimme an "S"
Gimme a "T"
Gimme a "F"
Gimme a "U"
What does it spell?

[Moonbat2]

30. don't be frightened

it's gonna be ok

[pattmarty]

36. I think a few people said that in 1933 too.

[No Elephants]

57. Seeing how much we can subvert the spirit of the Constitution is always a good thing.

Why do you hide your profile? Why be reluctant to show registration date and number of posts?

[No Elephants]

47. Prayer publicly on private property (whose owner is o.k. with it)> Pray secretly anywhere.

I am meticulous about total separation of church and state, but your post goes well beyond that.

[dballance]

14. Just Like With Wars I'm Sure Both Sides....

prayed to god that she grant them victory because theirs was the just and righteous cause and the other side was not worthy of god's support. How special for them all. I'm sure they feel just so much more righteous and holy now.

[sadbear]

15. God told me he doesn't answer prayers from self-riteous assholes who

ignore Matthew 6:5-8.

[4lbs]

16. As one comedian asked about athletes that pray:

Home come afterwards, if they lose, they never blame God or Jesus?

"Jesus made me fumble."

"Freakin' God tripped me as I was running."

However, if they should win, then they thank the Lord/God/Jesus.

If you thank a religious figure for winning, then blame the same if you lose.

[awoke_in_2003]

24. it is all part of god's plan...

:)

[davidinalameda]

17. actually S-D won

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_161531.asp

[sadbear]

19. Hmmm.....something's not quite right about your link

Perhaps because it's not October 29 (or better yet, it's not 2009).

[davidinalameda]

25. LOL

see how much I pay attention things some times

[awoke_in_2003]

20. "Soddy-Daisy lost the game"...

god must not have been impressed with their prayer :hide:

[WillParkinson]

28. Well duh...

There was no sacrifice. Like a prayer is good enough.

[Zoeisright]

86. LOL! Ain't that the truth.

[lynne]

26. Got no problem with it -

- it takes away any state involvement in the action yet allows them to have freedom of speech and religion.

[No Elephants]

48. Please see Replies 41, 39, 42 and 47.

Also http://dese.mo.gov/schoollaw/freqaskques/prayer.htm

[lynne]

74. Doesn't sound the same to me. The article made it sound as though -

- the student did this act of his/her own volition. It didn't indicate if the student was part of an organized religious group within the school but it did specifically mentioned that no microphones were used in this case. It would appear that what went on at the school was a bit different as compared to the situation in the link you provided.

[lynne]

75. Link to different article including video of prayer. Both teams prayed together. -

- Sounds like individuals had separate prayers going on at same time, too.

Link> http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/oct/23/students-pray-before-game/

Will admit I admire their ability to stay within the current restrictions handed to them yet still do what they obviously feel they have the right to do. Will be interesting to see if any action is taken regarding this prayer event.

[mitchum]

32. They need to read Matthew in their magic book of fairy tales

[jberryhill]

37. If students want to do that, they can do that

I don't know what is so hard to understand about the difference between officially sanctioned religious activities, and voluntary individual ones.

[No Elephants]

49. Google Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000)

[donquijoterocket]

58. religious beliefs

The ones I'm not quite sure of would be that proportion who engage in such activities solely because they know it will irritate someone who feels almost any public display is inappropriate, sanctimonious, self-righteous,and self-aggrandizing.When your beliefs become little more than sort of cudgel to belabor your supposed opponents with it would seem to have lost a lot of its meaning.

[jberryhill]

68. I agree

In the context of their professed beliefs, it is quite a display of hypocrisy. They are free to demonstrate that too.

[madmax]

38. What? Sodomy Daisies? What next? eom

[No Elephants]

50. SCOTUS has spoken.

http://dese.mo.gov/schoollaw/freqaskques/prayer.htm

[jberryhill]

52. No, that is distinguishable

In the case you cite, the school was involved in the selection process, and provided the PA system.

[No Elephants]

53. Who paid for the football field and all other expenses of the game?

Who made zero attempt to avert this allegedly impromptu prayer meeting on the 50 yard line?

Please see also Replies 39, 42 and 47.

In all public property cases I can think of, you have to represent more than one religious view and include a secular one, too. (O.K., not my fault if judges think St. Nick or Christmas presents are secular.)



P.S. "The Supreme Court granted certiorari, limited to the following question: 'Whether petitioner's policy permitting student-led, student-initiated prayer at football games violates the Establishment Clause.'"



The Court held that the policy allowing the student led prayer at the football games was unconstitutional. The majority opinion, written by Justice Stevens depended on Lee v. Weisman<2>. It held that these pre-game prayers delivered "on school property, at school-sponsored events, over the school's public address system, by a speaker representing the student body, under the supervision of school faculty, and pursuant to a school policy that explicitly and implicitly encourages public prayer" are not private, but public speech. 'Regardless of the listener's support for, or objection to, the message, an objective Santa Fe High School student will unquestionably perceive the inevitable pregame prayer as stamped with her school's seal of approval.'"

Personally, I would not be the least bit surprised if the school was in collusion, with the announcement about no prayer being aimed at getting around this case.

[Rage for Order]

64. "Who paid for the football field and all other expenses of the game?"

Answer: the people who were praying, i.e. the taxpayers in that school district. Where do you think governments get their money from?

"Who made zero attempt to avert this allegedly impromptu prayer meeting on the 50 yard line?"

How exactly would you propose to avert the "allegedly impromptu prayer meeting"? Should the sheriff's department have sent a riot squad onto the field with shields, batons, and tear gas to keep the residents of the community from praying and arrested all who resisted them?

[pattmarty]

76. No, but you CAN cut ALL federal funding to BOTH school districts...........

........if the Federal govt actually wanted to.

[joeglow3]

88. Then, how can the school avoid it?

You admit they cannot forcibly stop individuals from doing this. And yet, they should lose their funding because it happened. Thus, how can the school avoid it, so as to avoid losing their funding?

[d_r]

78. disagree

When the school had the prayer over the PA system, that violated the court's opinion, clearly. They have no right to use government property to have an official prayer.

But you don't give up your individual rights to freedom of speech, assembly, and religion just by stepping on to government property. The man can put limitations to it for safety (for example, not yell fire in a theater, or have to a have permit for a march), but you still have your individual rights. Doesn't matter if I agree with the content or not, you have your rights.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

51. Check out this fundie comment in the OP link:

"Fantastic!!! The only fool was the one not out on the field with them. I'm proud of you folks."

Christian tolerance is SO tolerant.

[ensho]

54. I feel sorry for these praying kids being taught to live a fantasy

nt

[No Elephants]

56. And they feel sorry for you, but both views are covered by the Free Exercise Clause.

[hack89]

63. Good. nt

[mzteris]

72. guess they shoulda prayed harder . . .

maybe gawd would have blessed them with a big ol' "W" on their scorecard.

Why does baby Jesus hate the Soddy-Daisy football team? :cry:

[Arugula Latte]

80. This makes me want to puke. nt

[tomg]

84. Next week before the game

all of us who are agnostic can just sort of aimlessly and confusedly wander around for awhile. Maybe that will help Soddy-Daisy. Or not.