Giant red stag Exmoor Emperor shot dead

[Green_Lantern]

Source: UK Guardian

The Exmoor Emperor, a giant red stag which is thought to have been the biggest animal in Britain, has been found shot dead in the West Country.

The creature, which weighed more than 135kg (300lb) and stood nearly 2.75 metres (9ft) tall, was killed close to the busy Tiverton to Barnstaple road in the middle of the annual rut.

Its death – thought to be down to a licensed hunter rather than a poacher – has infuriated deer experts and wildlife enthusiasts who say wild red stags should be protected during the mating season.

Red deer stags are the biggest indigenous land animal left in Britain. The Exmoor Emperor, who was given his nickname by photographer Richard Austin, was believed to be the largest wild animal in the country today.

Peter Donnelly, an Exmoor-based deer management expert, said it was a disgrace the animal had been shot during the mating season.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/oct/25/exmoor-emperor-stag-shot-dead

[jobycom]

1. The biggest animal in Britain is only 300 pounds?

I guess that shouldn't surprise me, being a populated island not suite for supporting large animals, but it still surprises me. I'm assuming they are ignoring zoos and people in that.

Sad. Some people see the world and only think "destroy."

[GodlessBiker]

11. Not counting members of the royal family, of course.

[Divine Discontent]

24. I adore fat jokes!

[psychopomp]

62. Me, too!

Fat people are hugely funny!

[Xithras]

16. Large wild animals have been largely extirpated from Western Europe

There is next to no "natural" forests left, and the human managed forests that remain tend to be too small and fragmented to support animals of any real size. Britain once had elk, aurochs, bear, reindeer, and even walrus. None lasted into the last millennium.

[jobycom]

17. .

:cry:

[texastoast]

43. The U.S. "long-term land use plan" is the same

Too bad we haven't learned anything here either, when you consider the really big picture.

Texas no longer has more than 2000 contiguous acres.

We are idiots.

[Xithras]

78. I don't know that North America will ever be quite as bad as Europe.

Of course, "ever" is a really long time, and humans have ane annoying habit of slowly grinding away at nature until there is nothing left.

Personally, I think the greatest hope for North American nature is Canada. In spite of logging, most of the Canadian north is still largely unspoiled and is a haven for wildlife. One of the upsides to global warming and the Arctic thaw is the fact that many of the species being squeezed out of the southern half of the continent will find the post-warming north to be a fairly hospitable place to live. If Canada can resist the temptation to carve the north up and "develop" it, the region could end up becoming the last great home for North American wildlife.

I think that most of North America will end up much like Europe, however. Most people don't understand how environmentally sterile Western Europe is. Virtually all of the original forest is gone, and the forests that exist today have all been cut at least twice (though there are areas where the forests have been cut and regrown dozens of times over the last few thousand years), and they bear little resemblance to the natural forests that once covered the continent. The natural forests, and the wildlife they once harbored, were wiped out centuries ago. The forests that exist today are "useful forests", planted and managed by humans for profit and recreation.

I would really like to visit the Białowieża Forest the next time I'm in Europe. I've seen Białowieża in photos a number of times, and it's absolutely beautiful. It's the last vestige of the original European Plains forest that's actually large enough to support a diverse and reasonably comprehensive ecosystem.

I really hope that we North American's take a lesson from Europe. Not a lesson to emulate, but an example to avoid. Nature should not be limited to a handful of parks.

[LTX]

86. Far too pessimistic, in my view.

The US has an enormous quantity of forest land.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/geo_lan_acr_tot_for_lan-geography-land-acreage-total-forest

In the lower 48, the eastern US has more than 66 million acres of public and 316 million acres of private forest. The western US has more than 249 million acres of public and 111 million acres of private forest. It's estimated that forest acreage in the US is about 70% of what it was in 1630, which, when you consider the land development since, is rather remarkable. And note that this is not including Alaska, which alone has more than 127 million acres of forest.

And you say that "Texas no longer has more than 2000 contiguous acres." Of forest land, I presume. I don't know where you got this information, but Texas has more than 11.5 million acres of forest land. Sam Houston National Forest alone is 163,037 acres, and the Piney Woods, while now fragmented and admittedly in need of continuing conservation efforts, is 54,400 square miles -- about the size of Wisconsin.

[supernova]

47. +100 for using "extirpated"

in a sentence.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. We have a couple of small herds of reindeer now

Reintroduced in the 1950s, after a gap of 8,000 years: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jun/07/scotland.reindeer

[Xithras]

77. Very cool.

In my defense, I did say "largely" :)

I heard that there were a small number of reintroduced reindeer in Scotland, but I didn't realize they'd been there that long, or that the herds had grown that much.

Do they have enough unfenced land to live naturally, or are they fed by gamekeepers?

[muriel_volestrangler]

79. The ones in the Cairngorms can roam unfenced

http://www.scotland.com/attractions/cairngorm-reindeer-centre/

Some of them are collected before Christmas, and they use them for 'Santa Claus' appearances: http://www.christmasreindeer.co.uk/ , before they go back to roaming.

No, I didn't realise they'd been re-introduced that long ago either.

[AngryAmish]

73. Kinda like what happened in North America after humans arrived

Where's my giant ground sloth or mammoth?

[SpiralHawk]

18. This thread needs a Stag photo

[jobycom]

21. Beautiful. Who looks at that and wants to shoot him?

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

31. People with GUNS ... !!!

[Green_Lantern]

67. or people with bows or other animals with claws..

nt

[sybylla]

20. Britian used to have bears and wolves and loads of large animals

They just hunted them to extinction centuries ago in most cases.

[eppur_se_muova]

28. Wild stags in Poland grow 50% larger -- but Britain has too little wild land for larger creatures.

Just finished watching "The Battle of the Bison Forest" a few minutes ago. :)

[roguevalley]

32. tremendously sad. his genes are gone unless he has a lot

of youngins. Some people are bastards with a capital b. I hope the hunter when he dies is met by a gigantic stag with a bazooka. That would be even steven.

[applegrove]

35. I think the big animals are the first to disappear when humans hit a certain population threshold.

The big mammals in North America are almost all gone except for in the north ..... and even that is iffy due to climate change and Anwar.

[AtheistCrusader]

44. Almost gone? Really?

You haven't been outdoors much have you.

[applegrove]

52. The buffalo are gone. Polar bears are under duress.

[naaman fletcher]

54. dude, there are deer and elk everywhere in people's backyards

The wildlife situation in the U.S. today is better than it was 100 years ago. I know everything about the U.S. is supposed to be evil, but this is one exception.

[boppers]

57. Better than 100 years ago?

Heck of a yard stick you got there.

How about 1000 years ago? The US has been populated for over 20,000 years, and you're measuring against the last 100?

[naaman fletcher]

60. Measuring against last 100

Because figures are available.

[applegrove]

82. There was more farming back 100 years ago thus less forest. So fewer animals 100 years ago.

In general big animals don't do so well when there is development. Think buffalo (which are coming back now).But we shall see how these beasts do with global warming (muskox, polar bears, etc.).

[X_Digger]

66. Umm.. no.

You really need to get out more.

Antelope, elk, deer, big horn sheep, black bears, brown bears, mountain lions- all are found in areas of the US.

[glinda]

2. Left dead? Hate crime really. Not hunting. Sick.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. The animal may have traveled quite some distance

after being shot. Undesirable, but it happens, unfortunately.

[glinda]

76. A good hunter never shoots unless he can down the animal. I grew up around hunting.

[AtheistCrusader]

80. Even the best hunters have problems sometimes.

Hell, the animal could spook due to some other noise, and begin moving after the hammer starts to fall, and before the bullet arrives, leaving a not-immediately-lethal wound.

Everything we do to practice and read the animal, it's position, and behavior, is to eliminate or reduce that possiblity, but it does happen.

[glinda]

83. Rarely. A good hunter has a definite shot.

[AtheistCrusader]

84. I'd agree that bad shots happen entirely too often.

Excitement, desperation to get something, anything, inexperience, etc.

[formercia]

3. Hunting Red Deer is like shooting Cattle

In New Zealand, my guide just walked into a nearby thicket and chased them out into the open with a stick. They were so close, all I could make out through the scope was hair.

In no way could it be considered sport.

[katandmoon]

4. How is shooting any unarmed, nonthreatening animal considered sport?

[Green_Lantern]

5. well by sport hunting it means it isn't mainly for the meat...

It doesn't mean sport as in a fair game.

[cartach]

22. It's mainly for the "fun" of it

Sport hunting is just what that term implies - for the sport of it. A good excuse for all macho types to get closer to nature. Down on the ground,maybe sleep in a tent,have a few or more drinks around a campfire,commune with nature,have an all around good time,lots of camaraderie,blah,blah,blah. Maybe shoot something but if not you can always buy it from an area farmer,dressed out and ready to go. Real hunting is work hunting and provides meat for the table.

[formercia]

6. I agree, it's much easier on the Psyche to buy meat at the store that someone else has butchered.

One of the choices, being at the top of the food chain, that one has to make.

[Orrex]

8. Really, though, it's not just a matter of making it "much easier on the Psyche"

Circumstances and geography likely prevent a great many people from hunting and/or butchering meat-bearing animals on their own.

[Moonbat2]

9. unarmed ???

[rpannier]

10. The Right to Arm Bears

I'm a supporter
Wrote Stephen Colbert about my support

[TheMadMonk]

46. We can debate what's sport and what isn't.

Or we can take some solace in that the "sport" in NZ is practiced on an introduced pest species, and that the flush and shoot method does minimise the risk of hunting accidents.

I would also surmise that whether or not the "hunter" takes the carcass home with him, the meat won't go to waste.

I personally also prefer that hunting of meat (or pest) species, whether for sport or need, be as unsporting as possible. The aim should alway be for the quickest and cleanest possible kills.

The hunting of carnivores for sport should ALWAYS be as sporting as possible. :evilgrin:

[AtheistCrusader]

48. True hunters do make sport of a quick kill

Who the hell wants to track a wounded animal for 5 miles, and then haul the meat back?

Sure, nobody likes to see an animal suffer, but we have added encouragement in wanting the animal to drop right there, no flight.

[greiner3]

7. If only he had been carrying his gun...

[SpiralHawk]

12. "Watch out, Bambi. You're next." - The Shootist

[BlancheSplanchnik]

13. :( i hope karma catches up with the scum who did this

Obviously out of some ego pumped spiteful thrill; "Look at me, look how I can Kill...I've. Got. A. Big. Dick"

I sure do get sick of the testosterone poisoned.


Poor innocent beautiful creature. :(

[Withywindle]

29. The stag's dick was still bigger.

And no amount of bullets will ever change that. Too bad for you, murderous overcompensaters. No matter how much you kill, it won't help.


They'll still keep trying, though. :(

[BlancheSplanchnik]

81. One time I went into this big box sports chain store that seems to specialize in hunting

dead taxidermied animals everywhere.

And some group of Big Dick Guys™ stroking off in the gun section...

It was horrible.

[xchrom]

14. Recommend

[flvegan]

15. Some people just suck. n/t

[supernova]

19. Pic at link

Here's a pic of the Exmoor Emperor. How sad. Magnificent animal. Hope he had lots of kids.

[shanti]

26. what a beautiful creature!

to shoot one is a travesty :(

[Withywindle]

27. Yeah.

I really do not understand the impulse to see something like that and think "must. kill." I mean, WHAT?!?

I can understand hunting less amazing creatures, more common ones, for food. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the impulse to kill the most impressive specimens, to "bag" a rare animal, to have a "trophy." Just from a long-term breeding standpoint, if the largest and most regal specimens get less chance to reproduce and having that kind of charisma is more likely to get you killed, then over time those qualities will diminish in the population and we are all the lesser for it.

I mean, if it's about being out in the wild and the thrill of the chase and the art of patience and all that, then why the hell not "hunt" the way this photographer did? Isn't a beautiful photograph like this a better "trophy" than some dead meat and skin and horns? I certainly respect the skill involved a lot more, and I certainly find creative works more admirable than destructive ones.

[JNelson6563]

36. Very regal!

What a hateful putz to kill this glorious creature.

Julie

[pa28]

49. Not sure if you've seen the movie "The Queen" but I was reminded of it today.

A similar animal is killed by a hunter to symbolize the death of the monarchy. Now the "Exmoor Emperor" is turned in a trophy to coincide with gutting of protected forests by the Cameron government.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/a-magnificent-forest-but-the-government-may-wield-the-axe-2116454.html

[Haole Girl]

23. That is so sad

What a magnificent creature he was.

[kgnu_fan]

25. God of Forest -- Its death will bring them misfortune

Princess Mononoke --- music and some photo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcpt4kTsrnQ

[Peregrine Took]

30. I'm not surprised. Any animal or tree or whatever that gains notoriety will

become a target for a lunatic who wants to destroy it

That's why I always hate it when some article or story depicts one of these subjects be it a white buffalo or the world's tallest or oldest tree, etc. Some maniac will want to be the one to kill it.

Sigh.. its just the way of our frigging sick, sick world.

[begin_within]

33. Such lovely people, those leisure-class types.

[Arugula Latte]

34. Hoping for a hunting "accident" for the asshole who did this...

:grr:

[Odin2005]

37. I see this horrible incident has been turned into another chance to bash hunters.

Genuine hunters respect nature and HATE assholes like this one.

[harun]

39. In this thread? or with the article?

This thread is better than I thought it would be. As a hunter I really really hate to see idiots do this. Obviously another hunter would know what this animal is and should know better.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. a real hunter/sportsman would not have killed during mating season.

[Brickbat]

69. Um...that's when deer season is usually held. During the rut.

[likesmountains 52]

50. How do you tell the difference? I mean really...where I live we are flooded with assholes in camo

all during the fall...and items in the paper about illegal hunting, hunters killing horses they thought were deer, people shooting at a decoy from their cars, people shooting each other accidentally, animals shot and left rotting with just their antlers removed...a few bad apples give everyone a bad name. So why aren't they dealt with?

[Jakes Progress]

51. Don't be so touchy.

Where can you find evidence that this whole thread is being used to bash hunters? Aren't you just projecting?

I think it's sad that "genuine hunters" are using this terrible incident to defend their idea of sport. I don't want to do the old hunting good/hunting bad thing, but I disagree with your position here that the thread is being hijacked by the anti-hunting crowd. Seems like yours has started a whole "hunters are noble/don't pick on us" theme. Most of the responses I saw condemned the drooling idiot that shot the animal, just as you did.

[AnnieBW]

38. What a shame!

What a shame to kill a beautiful animal like that.

[petronius]

40. I don't see why they're assuming it was a licensed hunter, if no one saw it

and no one has taken 'credit.' Wouldn't a hunter have taken the meat, or do hunters in Britain just kill animals for trophies?

[supernova]

42. I'm not sure

It seems like the assumption is he was killed for his tremendous rack. If he was indeed a little on the old side, though not too weak for getting the ladies, as indicated in the article, then the meat would have been a secondary consideration, being probably too tough.

[petronius]

53. I'm not a fan at all of trophy hunting, but I don't see what would differentiate the

hunter from the poacher if both would just take the rack. Perhaps they figure that poachers would be less likely to be out during the day or something...

Not that it really matters - the suckitude of killing such an animal for a wall decoration outweighs other considerations.

[naaman fletcher]

56. The answer

I am not a fan of hunting. I went duck hunting once and felt bad about it (although we did eat them). I then went deer hunting once and shot the deer in the leg and it got away. I was 17 or 18 at the time. I still feel guilty about it and haven't hunted since.

But a lot of people I know hunt. The difference between the hunter and the poacher is that one follows the rules and one doesn't. With for example Ducks and White-Tailed deer, responsible hunters have actaully done quite a bit to expand the populations and such. It sounds sort of sick, expanding the population just so it can be killed, but at is responsbile from the standpoint of not wiping them out as has been largely done in europe.

The proper hunter enables wildlife officials to to manage the forests properly by tightening and loosening conditions.

[petronius]

58. Sorry, I guess my post wasn't clear on its own. What I've been puzzling over in this subthread is

why the authorities are concluding that this particular killing was the work of a licensed hunter and not a poacher. If both the legal hunter and the poacher would just take the rack, what clues are they seeing to determine that this was done by a person with a license? To me, it seems like the secretive killing of what must have been a famous animal is more poacher-like than hunter-like.

I don't hunt either, but I do fish (mostly with a spear). I have nothing but disdain for people that can't follow the rules, take shorts or protected species, fish out of season, or let meat go to waste...

[naaman fletcher]

61. I'm sure,

That they have no clue, somebody somewhere along the line specualted. I agree it was probably a secretive killing as a real hunter would have taken it to eat and mount its head on the wall. Actually, a poacher would probably do that too. I think this was some asshole with a gun who decided to kill this magnificent beast for fun.

[Mojorabbit]

59. The meat should have been ok

esp ground for sausage or chili and the like. My husband bow hunts but only what we will eat and we don't waste anything. To kill such a wonderful creature for it's rack is an abomination.

[diamondheart]

55. Shoots and leaves...

... coward.

[mistertrickster]

63. Well . . . that's what deer hunters do. They shoot deer. The big stags are the trophies.

I don't shoot deer myself, but I am a bird hunter (pheasants-quail).

If you don't want people shooting big bucks, don't give them licenses to shoot big bucks.

[The Stranger]

87. This wasn't so much hunting as it was shooting something that was there.

Apparently, everyone knows about the animal and sees it, so it wasn't hunted.

Some piece of shit just decided one day to shoot it instead of admiring it.

[Uncle Joe]

64. That was a beautiful animal, it's too bad somebody had to kill it.

:(

Thanks for the thread, Green_Lantern.

[Lorien]

70. Chose to, unfortunately

and to just leave him for dead proves that the killer was just another thrill killing "sport hunter" assh*le.

[Green_Lantern]

68. This action and most hunting is a good thing for people & deer..

This article is full of info on this story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1323496/Emperor-Exmoor-shot-dead-Giant-red-stag-gunned-legally-antlers.html


For one thing, it wasn't just shot and left for dead:

The eye-witnesses, who asked not to be named for professional reasons, had been part of a group of stalkers who heard two shots earlier that morning.

Members of the group identified the Exmoor Emperor’s large head of antlers as it was being taken away, the eye-witness said.

People in this thread may think shooting deer is inhumane but how humane s it to allow deer overpopulation result in them starving to death or being hit by cars:

Older stags need to be culled because they find it difficult to survive once their teeth wear down. Deer populations also have to be controlled to stop damage to farms, woods and gardens.

Conservationists say the UK's deer population has doubled since the 1970s and is now close to two million - a level not seen since the time of the Norman Conquest.

According to new figures, deer have become so common they cause 74,000 road accidents each year - and kill up to a dozen drivers and passengers.

'It is kindest to kill them in older age because a deer’s incisors get worn down and they can’t eat properly,' said Mr Donnelly.

'They can only hoover up food and that won’t be good enough so they are going to die a slow death of starvation in the winter - there are no longer natural predators around to kill them quickly.'

Killing such a large stag doesn't threaten the species' survival. On the contrary:

'It’s not necessarily a bad thing to shoot a large stag. If you’re looking for a healthy deer population you don’t necessarily want big stags.

'If you are a responsible stalker you will shoot a deer that’s going back which means that it’s past it’s prime.

'You can tell this from the deer’s antlers.

'If it’s past its prime it’s no loss for the deer population because it allows the more up and coming stags to breed.

'If the stag is established and been around for a long time then you have got the problem of inbreeding so if someone shot The Emperor then it’s not necessarily a bad thing for the health of the deer population.

[Lorien]

71. As usual, the rich are to blame:

"He said that although the shooting was legal, deer lovers were becoming increasingly worried about the number of rich sportspeople coming to Exmoor to shoot its finest stags as trophies.

Donnelly, from Dulverton in Somerset, agreed that competition for stags was becoming intense. "There are people who are prepared to spend quite ridiculous sums of money to have a trophy on their wall. People talk about £1,000 for a good head, but I've heard there are those who will pay a lot more," he said."

Destroying a magnificent animal for a TROPHY? How small is his dick?? Is there nothing worthwhile that the rich WON'T destroy for their petty greed and vanity? It's time for a cull of the uber wealthy!

[Green_Lantern]

74. I honestly doubt it is just a bunch of rich people doing this

A giant red stag cut down in his prime was apparently shot legally after the landowner was paid for the shooting rights - and his mounted head could be sold for £2,000, it was claimed.

It is more like non-landowners paying for the ability to hunt on the land of rich property owners.

[ladjf]

72. Humans are too selfish, narcissistic and stupid to survive. nt

[Green_Lantern]

75. yup after all they'd rather deer starve or be hit by cars..

Just because they think hunting is mean.

[Tx4obama]

85. Locals say stag is NOT dead

Exmoor Emperor Stag Alive? Locals Say Stag is Not Dead
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/exmoor-emperor-stag-alive-locals-say-stag-not-dead-2708966.html


He's alive! Mystery surrounding the 'Exmoor Emperor' stag deepens as locals claim to have seen the beast in village gardens
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1324297/Exmoor-Emperor-stag-mystery-deepens-locals-claim-sighting-beast-village.html