Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Terrified Mexican police force resigns

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 11:29 PM
Original message
Terrified Mexican police force resigns
Source: Financial Times

An entire police force in a northern Mexico community resigned on Tuesday afternoon after its station came under heavy fire by suspected drug traffickers, local authorities confirmed.

Read more: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2161066e-e15a-11df-90b7-00144feabdc0.html



More news from the border:

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_16438601

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_16428894?source=pkg
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. If we don't end this corrupt and nutsy Drug War soon.... we'll be Mexico....!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Doubtful
Though I'm all for legalizing just about everything, there's little risk of the US turning into Mexico anytime soon. We have a much more developed civil society and the rule of law is more respected here. Things aren't perfect, but gangs aren't free to run wild and intimidate/bribe the authorities with virtual impunity. Here, the criminals run from the cops, not the other way around. Along the border, some of the violence is spilling over, but even there it's minimal compared to what's going on further south.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fruittree Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I overall agree with you but...
The majority of my extended family lives in Mexico and until recently I think they believed they lived in a "developed civil society" where the rule of law was respected. They're scared and have no idea how this can possibly be happening where they're becoming prisoners in their own homes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L.Torsalo Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. You seem to overlook
that a large part of any criminal strategy is to cause chaos, or an appearance of such. It provides opportunities to gain/seize power. The drug gangs are growing into political units, unafraid to use mega-violence/terror to make their point. The border is porous and the gangs operate on both sides with virtual impunity (if you believe the reports). The problem is growing because the USG had long ago decided that the value of a war on drugs is superior to the value of legalization and freedom of choice. The USG is essentially supplying the market, the money, the munitions and soon the chickens will come home, but not to roost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. International crime thrives in failed states
Mexico isn't there yet, but they're trying to push it that way.

The most complete study of failed states that I've found is at http://www.irisprojects.umd.edu/ppc_ideas/Revolutionizing_Aid/Resources/typology_pdf/fraying_modern_map.pdf

I haven't looked at it in a couple of years and I'm not sure whether it has neocon-ish overtones or not. But my recollection is that reading it was a real eye-opener. I'll probably read it again later today.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I read that report and I have several objections to it.
First, it is clear the writers are refusing to acknowledge HOW "States" operate (By "State" I mean National Governments like the US Federal Government NOT the individual states that makes up the US). Generally you have an Economic/Political center (In the US it is Washington DC AND New York City). These Centers then spread out and control an much larger area. Sometime this is done politically, other times just economically, but it is the later that is important NOT the former. Thus the DC-NYC center reaches out into the hinterlands and connects to those two great highways of North American, the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River System. Thus Canada, while an independent State, in part of the Economic Nation centered on DC-NYC.

Rivers, lakes, oceans provide the cheapest ways to move goods around and thus have always been the major economic highways of the World. The Roman Empire was centered on the Mediterranean Sea for the simple reason it was the best highway of the time period. When Carthage was lost to the Vandals in 450 AD, that split the Mediterranean into two, and within decades you saw the complete collapse of the Roman Empire in the West. The Eastern Roman Empire Survived for almost another 1000 years, till it lost control of its highway to the Italians during the Crusades and with that lost, its Capital fell to the Fourth Crusades in 1204 and then to the Turks in 1453 (The Greeks took it back about 1280, but it was never what it had been before the Crusades).

In the Western Empire during the period before 450, control over Northern Europe varied over time. Technically the borders never really changed from about the birth of Christ till 450 AD (The biggest change was in 410, then the Romans abandoned Britain) but how much control Rome had over the are varied over the Centuries. When Rome was at is height, most of what is now Germany was under the Economic Control of Rome, but when Rome was weak, it lost control even of areas In Northern Gaul. Why? To control these areas require these areas to get more from Rome then it was giving to Rome. When Rome was strong that was easy to do, when it was weak, these were the first area where economic saving occurred (i.e. tax revenues fell, cut the number of troops in these areas, while keeping the same number of legions, leading to huge savings in Revenue, an example of this is at the Time of Caesar a Roman Legion consisted of 10 Cohorts, 8 of 600 men, 2 of 1000 men plus Auxiliaries, mostly archers, total about 10,000 men, by the 300 AD the number of legions had increased but the number of people in each legion had been cut by at least half, often more. Furthermore equipment changes also occurred, generally cited as a need to increase mobility, but the real reason was to cut cost, the Rectangle Shield of Caesar's day was replaced by a Round shield by 300 AD, the short Sword and pike replaced by the long sword and Pike, but this was to compensate for the dropping of mail armor, most popular during the time of Hannibal, by cheaper and less effective metal plates at the time of Augustus, to almost no armor, except helmets by 400 AD).

The same has been occurring since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union. The US and its NATO allies have cut back on aide to Third world countries, not only in military assistance but more so in non-military assistance. Combined with the end of all Assistance from the Former Soviet Union, you see less and less money going to marginal areas of control. These marginal areas are seeing that it is more cost effective for them to act in their own best interest thus go on their own way, ignoring what is in the best interest of the world and the Economic centers. The Economic Centers can NOT justify in their own minds the subsidies these marginal areas have been getting since 1945 and cut such support off. With that cut off what ever control the Economic Centers had over the area ended with the end of that support. Such like the end of Roman Support to the German Tribes ended Roman economic Control over the Germans (And parts of Northern Gaul). Yes most Roman Support was in the form of Troops, but those Troops were paid and that pay helped the local economy. Furthermore the Roman troops, after Augustus, settled in the Northern Lands, and thus added to the local economy (and became part of it). I will ignore the issue of Slavery, which was the main export of Germany into the Roman Empire between 100 BC and 220 AD (When the Roman Empire almost Collapsed and was saved by series of Roman Generals out of what is now the Balkans, the Empire they formed was a lot weaker then the Empire of Augustus and as such had limited economic control over Germany and over time less and less control over Gaul and Britain).

Lets look at the Economic Centers at the present time. You have NYC-DC, the "City" of London (Not London itself but its economic center inside the old "City of London" and thus called the "City of London" in many economic papers), Frankfort and Paris (The heart of the Euro), Tokyo, Beijing/Shanghai, Calcutta/Delhi, Moscow/St.Petersburg. You do have other lesser centers, Rome, Madrid (most Capitals of the world for example), Mexico City, etc. Most of these Economic Centers are centered on a coast, lake or a river (or other economic Highway). As long a the Cold War was going on, these minor Economic centers were "fought" over by the Soviet Union and the US in the form of Economic aide. This aide permitted these economic Centers to expand into the hinterlands at almost no cost to themselves. With the withdraw of those funds, the control of these economic centers over these hinterlands have become more costly (And do to other economic pressure, less and less money is being spent to hold onto them).

Thus we are seeing a replay of the later Roman Empire, as the economic centers withdraw economic support to their hinterlands and as a result those hinterlands do what is it their own economic best interests. You see this in Columbia (a marginal area of control even during the Cold War), where FARC is holding onto huge areas in the Jungle, an area the Columbia Government in Bogota has never really had any real control over (Columbia's borders are well defined, but the people who control those borders areas with Brazil is more often the not the people in the area NOT people with a concern as to what is the plans of Bogota or Brasilia. This is true of all of the Amazon river area of Peru and Bolivia (and the areas in Brazil next to those areas).

Afghanistan can not be called a "Failed state" for it was never a State. Afghanistan has always been a geographical expression of an area that never fell into the Indus River Economic Control area, the Ganges Economic Control Area, Tibet or the Control area of what is often called the Former Soviet States of Central Asia (FSSCA). Furthermore FSSCA came under the control of Moscow do to the willingness of Moscow to use its resources (The control of Russia and its main rivers, The Volga, the Northern Dvina, the Don, and the Volkhov- Lake Ladoga -Neva River System) and the Dienper River that flows into the Ukraine. One of the side affects of the end of the Cold War was Russia stopped supporting areas on its edges, concentrating on its centers.

If you notice, The FSSCA countries really have no economic centers themselves, but are drawn in three directions, all at the same time. To the Indus Vally, to Iran and the Persian Gulf, and to Russia and Moscow. Thus the FSSCA were the last parts of Central Asia to become part of Russia, in the late 1800s (Siberia, on the other hand was part of Russia by the 1500s and the collapse of the Successors of the Mongol Empire). Russia went east using portages (and then the Trans-Siberian in the late 1800s) starting in the 1500s only taking the FSSCA areas in the late 1800s.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the hostility the US has to Iran AND the decision to support India (Which cut out support for Pakistan and the Indus Valley) the Central Asia Republics were on their own. Drawn three ways, but no one way in particular. Thus the states as they exist have no control over where their countries are going. People follow trade routes and at present such trade is going in three different directions. None of these states have "failed" all of them are drifting to see which of the three ways it is pulled will get strong first, and then follow joins that economic center.

Africa is similar. One of the problems with Africa is the borders, South of the Sahara, were drawn by Otto von Bismark in 1885 to cause wars not to prevent them. Bismark did not want any African territories, but took a couple of pieces to keep his own imperialist happy AND to give him a say on the division of Africa. Bismark, saying he wanted to minimize conflicts over Africa, called in the European Nations to discuss the division of African in a Conference in 1885. Bismark acted as a neutral arbitrator to the countries with serious imperial aims in Africa (This has been called like the Roosters leaving the Fox divide up the Hen-house among the Roosters, the Fox has plans for the Hens, but not the same plan as the Roosters). Anyway Bismark managed to set up the division of Africa in such a way as to guarantee wars. Bismark did this so that the European powers would be so mad at each other about some useless place in Africa they never combine to attack Germany. Thus Bismark did several things guarantee to cause conflict. First his first choice of a Border was always a river, on paper this sounds great Rivers a great line, but rivers CONNECT people, they are things that UNITE people, river do NOT divide people. Thus by using River, Bismark guarantee unstable situations. Now, North of the Sahara, Bismark could NOT use this technique to much, thus Egypt and Sudan are centered on the Nile River which flows through both Countries. Further south Bismark started to use the Nile as a divider, and that is one of the causes behind the Rwanda debacle of the 1990s (Its border is the Nile, you thus effectually divided up a river united population and combined part of that population with a herding population outside the Nile Valley and it then blew up in the 1990s).

The Congo is another river, divided between the French and Belgium during much of its length, but its month has an element of Portuguese territory. To the East of the Congo you have British Control areas.

The Zambezi River divided German East Africa from Portuguese East Africa (Bismark always planned to give German East Africa to the British for something, the British were bound to want it since Britain already control Zanzibar, the island nation off the coast of Tanzania (Formerly Tanganyika) the present name for German East Africa.

Notice the above area is also drawn in three different direction, first to Egypt and the Sudan via the Nile. Second Zanzibar off the East Coast of Africa via the Zambezi River. Third to Johannesburg in South Africa and fourth to Lagos in Nigeria.

My point is most of the "Failed States" mentioned in the article reflect the above areas, areas on the edges economic centers (and often at the edges of several economic centers). As such most of the people in those areas have more then one option of where and to who they can sell their goods. Most are waiting for one of the economic Centers to expand back into their area and get paid to be a member of that economic center's area of control.

Now, the true "failed states" such as Somalia and Iraq have other problems. Iraq's problem is it is the economic center of its area. The US Destroyed it during the Gulf War under Bush Senior but being an economic center it would and could not die. Iran, another economic center in that part of the World benefited to a certain degree, but sees itself also opposed by the US (But that is another story). Iraq needs to work out its internal differences and become what it has been for centuries, an economic center that is often divided between two draws. First is Persia, which it has strong economic ties (Many of the Rivers that flow into Iraq flows FROM Iran). Second is the Mediterranean Sea (The mountains that the twin rivers of Iraq headwaters are, divide Iraq from the Mediterranean Sea). These pulls affect Iraq when it is weak (as it is at the present time) but generally it is strong and as such an independent economic power (Through it has been united with the Mediterranean during the time of Alexander the Great, Roman times, Ottoman Empire times etc, but it has also been united with Persia during pre Alexander the Great times, Post Arab Conquest times, Mongol Conquest times, and off and on with Turkey during Ottoman Empire times).

As to Somalia, while it is drawn to Aden in Arabia, to Zanzibar off Tanzania, to Egypt but also to Ethiopia, these are all weak draws at best. In many ways it is its own economic center, but that center is in Djibouti (formerly French Somaliland). The French managed to keep Djibouti out of a united Somali in 1958 (Vote rigging was one of the many ways, including expelling people most likely to vote to join Somali) but this had the effect of Somali having no decent port and thus no easy access, except for small craft, to the highway off its shores (The Red Sea and the Indian Ocean). Worse, one section of traditional Somali is in Eastern Ethiopia with a small section in Kenya. Not only does note of the above economic centers want to spend the money to gain access to the rest of Somali, neither does the European economic centers, and as such Somali festers. Please note unlike most failed states Somali has easy access to transportation via the sea (But the main port in the area Djibouti is NOT available to most of Somali). Thus Somali has no center, but traditionally always had one. It is a failed state for its economic center has no design to expand its economic control over Somali given that the Economic Center is getting all of the income it can from that area at the present time. Someone has to go into Somali and form a state that includes most of its clans. No one wants to do that at the present time so Somali's problems fester, just like Iraq's problems festers.

Just pointing out that the Failed states of Iraq and Somali have almost nothing in common with the "failed states" of Russia, FSSCA, South America etc. Iraq and Somali is more the destruction of an Economic center due to outside influences NOT border areas being drawn three different directions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. What you say is very interesting
And I have no argument with most of it. It seems fairly clear that one of the limitations of the nation-state is that instead of defining countries by their centers, it attempts to define them by their borders. Africa isn't the only place where arbitrary boundaries have been used to split ethnic groups down the middle and assign each half to some far-off capital city with which they have little affinity.

But there's something else going on with the nations that often get described as "failed states" -- and that is the complete breakdown of civil order in a way that allows the drug trade and other illicit ventures to flourish and promotes the emergence of bandits and mercenaries who eventually turn into local warlords. Even normally strong nations can fall apart this way -- like Germany during the 30 Years War, or China at various times when it was between dynasties.

What's more, the process is self-reinforcing. As criminal elements gain a degree of control, they may no longer be satisfied to operate in the shadows, but may deliberately promote the breakdown of order in a way that provides a more favorable environment for themselves. And that's what really concerns me in the current situation with Mexico.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. In history when the "Criminal Element" get to much power....
Such Criminal Element sets themselves up as a new Government. In effect the Criminal element emerges as a new state. This is often called Tribalism today, but it is a very old concept and it is what is happening in Somali, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Former Soviet Central Asian States, large sections of Africa south of the Sahara and even parts of South and Central America.

In History, when the German Tribes moved into the Roman Empire, they (except for the Vandals) were defeated and settled in Roman Territory by the Romans to keep the Roman Peasants in line. Such "Barbarians" ruled they area as agents of the Roman Emperor, but over time extended the power of their laws even to the Roman Peasants. Out of this take over of local Government by the Criminal Elements of the Invading Barbarians arose the modern Europe. Similar actions occurred elsewhere (In many ways the Chinese Communist take over of China is an example of this, unlike the Russian Revolution which was more urban based and more a coup followed by Civil war, then a Civil War that lead to an overthrow of the Government).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Dream on.
Have you ever even been in Mexico? I have. And it's a 'developed civil society'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. No I haven't
Nor did I say that they don't have a developed civil society; I said that ours is 'more developed.' Of course Mexico isn't all drugs and violence nor is it Somalia or Afghanistan, where there's little to no government control of anything. It's a pretty large country with a diverse population and while the current violence is big news, it's not everything. Nonetheless, it's clear that in some parts of the country, 'anything goes,' as it were, since in many places those in charge are on the payroll of the gangs and have vested interests (including their desire to continue to draw breath) in not standing up to them and others (including journalists) are simply cowed into submission through pure physical brutality. Things aren't perfect here, but they are certainly better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. You really don't have a clue
Comparing Mexico to Somalia is just pure ignorance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You obvioulsy did not read my response closely
I said Mexico IS NOT Somalia or Afghanistan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thetonka Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. I've been to some places in LA where the cops run from the Gangs.
Sad but true, although it has been a while.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. No doubt there are some serious gang problems in the US
But for the most part I think the cops generally are at the top of the heap in most places. That doesn't mean they have the power to stop gang members from killing each other any more than they can stop other kinds of crime, but I think their power is pretty much respected in most places. Even hardcore criminals realize that if you tangle with the cops, you're probably going to end up either dead or with a very long prison sentence. Unfortunately that's not the case in some parts of Mexico, where it's the authorities that have to respect the power of the criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. ...again!
If they still want Texas, I say let them have it. Hee!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Ummmmm, no
That's an exageration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. We will always have the moon ship
I've got a window seat !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. The FT article's behind a paywall. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
habitual Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. use this technique to get around most 'paywalls'
Edited on Wed Oct-27-10 12:26 AM by habitual
enter the title of the article in google news, in this case "Terrified Mexican police force resigns"

find the article written by the financial times... (first result)

click it to view the article.

most websites let traffic that originates from google searches see the whole article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. +1 Good info. Thanks. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Nice; thanks! (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. Failed state. Thanks to Calderon and the Drug War(tm). nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. I will NOT repeat it here, but the Drug war has little to do with this upcoming debacle
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4519785&mesg_id=4520989

As I wrote in August this is much more then a war on Drugs. Mexico is breaking down for other reasons and the drug dealers are using the confusion for their own benefit. The same drug dealers have been running drugs into the US for at least 20-40 years, but we have NEVER had the violent actively as in Mexico. The reason is drug dealers do NOT want violence, it cuts into the profits. On the other hand drug dealers will use violence if that is the price they have to pay to have an other wise peaceful business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. From your link:
Edited on Wed Oct-27-10 04:37 PM by bemildred
"Drugs are a factor, but appears to be a source of Income for a raising war against the ruling class of Mexico."

So you favor keeping drugs illegal so as to support an effort at violent overthrow in Mexico? Or what? If drug profits enable the current debacle, doesn't the fact that drugs are very profitable black market goods have something to do with it?

I don't disagree that there is a lot more than the drug war behind the troubles in Mexico, but it seems fatuous to say the drug war has nothing to do with it. Calderon decided to try to suppress the trade by force, and instead it looks like the trade is going to suppress him, and his government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Such Revolutionary Groups will look at ANY source of Revenue
Drugs are just the easiest, kidnapping, theft, blackmail have also been used (For Example, the Main Source of funding for FARC is NOT drugs, but Kidnappings in return for ransom, the people who are dealing with drugs tend to be people who has access to ports of Columbia let me say that is NOT the FARC, contrary to the report posted on this site).

Lets remember the top two things smuggled world wide are Drugs and Guns. Both tend to use the same network, and will survive the legalization of one of them.

As to most of the money from Drugs that is NOT going to the people involved in the Violence, that is going to the king pins AND Corrupt officials. Smugglers prefer to bribe then kill. My point was the money is available to BRIBE why fight? Some thing else is causing the fight and the drugs is just one source of funding. Another source is money sent back home from illegal Immigrants. Such revolts require funding, and will seek funding wherever such funding can be found. If you want to end the War on Drugs, that is good, but such an ending will have minimal effect on the violence in Mexico. The cause of that violence is deep seated and drugs are just one of many ways the revolt is slowly funding itself. We need to address the cause of the violence, which is NOT the War on Drugs, but the underlying social problems in Rural Mexico and Central America. That problem is the problem that is leading to this violence and no one will even trying to address it for it means undoing US Central American policy for that last 50 years (i.e. for at least the last 50 years the US policy has been to keep up the social elite of that part of the world, against demands from the peasants for land, the US will have to change it policy to one of forcing the elite of those areas to give up control of the farm lands and give that land to the peasants, a change in policy that is unlikely). This almost complete control over rural farm lands by the elite of that area is the problem, it has been a problem since the Spanish Conquest (And some indication that it pre-dates that conquest and was one of the reasons Cortes was able to conquer Mexico).

Drugs are just one more way for such peasants to get money for arms to fight their landlords. As several economists have said the number one problem is the Third world is "landlordism" where the people doing the work on the farms get very little of what they produce on those farms. Their "Landlords" get most of the money, even if the landlords do NOTHING for the peasant.

Landlordism was one of the reasons the Viet Cong had such a great following in South Vietnam, in areas controlled by the Viet Cong, the land was "owned" by the peasants who worked those fields, when such areas were "Liberated" by Us Forces, the South Vietnamese Army would move in to help the landlords get rent that had not been paid, sometimes for years, when the Viet Cong held the area. To this the US and South Vietnamese Government had no response (Even the Nationalist Chinese restricted to Taiwan adopted land reform to address this issue, they started after the Communist did so on the Mainland and since it was a much smaller area, and they had access to US Money, finished within just a couple of years, beating out the Red Chinese.

Anyway, Landlordism is the problem, even in Mexico where no one is suppose to own more then 600 acres (it is a land widely ignored, just like a similar Roman Law was ignored at the time of Hannibal and when someone tried to enforce it, they were killed by the Elite (for more details see the "Gracchi")

The Gracchi on Wikipedia (A very shot article, many conservatives hate them to this day as did Cato the Elder):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracchi

http://www.the-romans.co.uk/gracchi.htm

Plutarch on the Gracchi:

On the elder, Tiberius:
http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/tiberius.html

One the Younger, Caius:
http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/gracchus.html

His comparison of the Gracchi with the Greek Cleomenes
Plutarch wrote his history of famous Romans and Greeks and then compared those Romans and Greeks who did, in his mind, similar:
http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/t_c_comp.html

None of the above addressed the issue of landlordism for that is a modern observation and like the late Roman Republic a source of tension between the majority of people who are working and the upper 10% of the population that either owns all of the property and wealth OR are such people immediate hangers-ons.

Landlordism is the problem with Mexico and has been for over 200 years. In the 1850s Mexico took all the land of the Catholic Church on the promise it would go to the peasants, but it went to the elites of Mexico under President Diaz in the late 1800s (The French Intervention was technically to prevent this take over of Catholic Church Property, and that was used against the Catholic Church till the 1930s by those ruling elites looking for someone else to blame for Social Unrest to to the elite by then owning most of the land). Much of recent history of Mexico is the peasants demanding a return or preservation of ancient communal lands, and the Government of Mexico saying such communal lands never existed or is owned by the Government and can be sold by the Government. The problem with Mexico is NOT drugs but land and no one wants to address that issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yep, nasty people. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. DOD and TX already preparing for sudden collapse of Mexico
7:10am 2/9/09 -- Texas Plans for Possible Mexican Collapse: 'You hope for the best, plan for the worst,' Gov. Perry's aide tells El Paso Times.
Officials in Texas are drawing up contingency plans in the face of a potential collapse of the Mexican government and the possibility that thousands of refugees could come north to flee political and social chaos, the El Paso Times reported.
"You hope for the best, plan for the worst," Katherine Cesinger, spokeswoman for Gov. Rick Perry, told the Times last week. "At this point, we've got a contingency plan that's in development."
Late last year, the U.S. Defense Department identifying both Pakistan and Mexico as countries that could rapidly collapse, and numerous other U.S. public figures have sounded the alarm over escalating violence attributed to warring drug cartels in Mexican cities along the border, the Times said.
"I think their fears are well-grounded," Texas Homeland Security Director Steve McCraw told lawmakers recently at a border security briefing, the paper reported.
Cesinger told the Times that a contingency plan was now in its early stages, and now deals only with law enforcement concerns but not any potential crush of humanitarian needs should thousands of refugees flee across the border.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. TX is the cause for most of the violence that goes on down there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thetonka Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I'm not a big fan of TX, but how is this true?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. wtf?
can you explain that one?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. Hey, if California won't step up- we will
:rofl: :eyes: :crazy: :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. If I lived in Mexico, I would be doing my best to get some firearms ...
to protect my family. (It may be illegal, but the police have a lot more to worry about.)

I also would be considering getting the hell out of Mexico and crossing the border.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-27-10 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. Forget about Iraq ...we have a war right on our borders
Anarchy is very ugly
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC